Despite cocky claims by Microsoft executives, the Forza Motorsport franchise remains far behind the best-selling Gran Turismo series with only a fraction of the sales that Sony's brand manages to rake in.
Turn 10 will hopefully never open there mouths in bad respect again........ dot dot dot..... dot.... hopefully.
Gran Turismo laughs at Turd 10. :)
The PSP is probably the most hacked platform ever invented and still sold GT well. PS: Forza has 3 games. GT has 4 games and 2 expensive demos... both of which sold multi-millions.
@FOXGOD. i totally agree.this is completely retarded even comparing these 2 game series. TIME PERIOD! UNCHARTED 2= 2.8 MILLION FORZA 3= 2.4 MIILION so im guessing ps3 games need to be more than 2.4 million to be considerd non-flops. am i right?
Gran Turismo – 10,850,000 Gran Turismo 2 – 9,370,000 Gran Turismo 3 A-spec – 14,890,000 Gran Turismo Concept Series – 1,560,000 Gran Turismo 4: Prologue – 1,350,000 Gran Turismo 4 – 10,980,000 Gran Turismo 5: Prologue – 4,650,000 Gran Turismo (PSP) – 1,800,000 Series Total – 55,450,000 ;) (Well i just saw that on the sixthaxis.com)
That doesn't matter Foxgod. Remember how you bots jump up and down when american sales figures shows up? Despite xbox 360 having twice the install base in US compared to the PS3. Same thing should work here. Or are you going to spin it just to fit you?
And i thought u ps3 fangirls dont care about sales?!? In terms of sales, stop bullying the little brother Forza, go up against the big brother, Halo 3. I still havent seen any ps3 exclusive to sell close or near Halo 3. Oh and dont expect GOW3 nor GT5 to beat Halo 3 in sales.
Look at how all the other amazing play station franchises have done compared to the competition this Gen ... Life's good when you're the only console in town ... now there's some competitioner and the only way Sony can make their games look good is by bringing the PS2 and teh PS1 into the equation ... because the PS3 on it's own is so crap ... Well done droids ... play behind ....
Turn 10 never should have started all that trash talk in the first place. They were even caught trolling GT5 on NeoGAF. I didn't care one way or the other about Forza until they started all their bullsh*t, and that just made me look at it negatively.
I agree. But I think they had good reasons to get confident. The thing is that they were talking while PD wasn't around and essentially taunting something that was non-existent and unreleased. It's easy to do that. They should have waited till GT5 was out to make some of the claims they did. Of course, that's PR talk for you. In the end Forza is still a great game, so let's not forget that sales don't matter to gamers, but Turn 10 had this coming.
They can be confident all they want. The game did review pretty well so it obviously has something going for it. Unfortunately, rather than being confident in their product, they turned to bashing Polyphony and their game. Talk about your own game rather than needlessly smearing others. It just makes you look foolish and insecure about what you've created.
never bashed or said anything about Poly or GT5. WTF are you people talking about? T10 mentioned that FM3 was the definitive sim this gen and it is, GT5 does not even exist yet. The closest thing to FM3 competition is NFS Shift. GT5 is still just vaporware.
@ Strikepackage Bravo lol yes they realy never stated any bold claims like "they've dropped ball" or any other.. in wich galactic system do you live ?
They didn't? http://www.thegamersmag.com... "So, props to Kazunori Yamauchi-san and the PS1 team – that said, I feel that he’s passed us the baton. Perhaps he hasn’t meant to, but we have taken the genre to new levels and they’ve stopped evolving the genre. So again, tremendous respect to him, but I’d say the differentiator is they’re old school. The emperor’s naked, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to slap him around, but no game competes [with] us right now." http://www.videogamer.com/p... "We watched the Sony press conference and we were like, OK so we just brought what we believe firmly is the best racing game ever made, and our competition didn’t show up. So now you can see why I’m fairly bullish. I hate to sound so [email protected] but the truth is the stars have aligned. I don’t know how else to say it." http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... "The reason I say I was personally surprised was because PD aren't generally known as a studio to acknowledge that there are racing games that exist beyond their own. Which could explain why the GT franchise has been so stagnant in the racing genre since GT3. So it seems competition is good for the consumer after all. I know for a fact that Turn 10 will never stop pushing racing games to the next level."
Wonder how the two games would compare (quality/content wise) if they launched at the same date or at least in the same time quarter. Comparing the sales of an new ip on the (original) xbox to a well established franchise on the psp is flawed in so many ways. Title of the article = flame bait.
You can easily google Dan Greenawalt and Polyphony. And find his commentary about how he feels GT has passed the baton to T10, about how Forza is better than ALL console & PC simulator out, compared to every game. The series with no private racing, 8 vehicles on the road, without dynamic drivers or airbrakes. And the same "feature" from its previous title(which is also shared in PC sims) livery editing. The point is that hes been talking about competition period, when no one else is because they just speak with their products. Theres a reason Ferrari debuts its vehicles in Gran Turismo's demo, and not Forza. Its because Gran Turismo's franchise eclipses all other car sims on the market for enthusiasts. Which is why it includes things like WRC & Nascar, and open wheel vehicles. It speaks to the world of car enthusiasm. Not just Fast & Furious fans that think Exotics are the fastest vehicles in the world. People are willing to wait for GT because its the best at what it does. Now Turn10 is looking completely stupid with not driving any sales to them, and potentially losing some to simulation owners that are fine waiting for GT while they play other sims/driving games or even prologue. It wasn't needed.
@ Strikepackage Bravo: You really should ask a doctor to examine your head and check you for Alzheimer's. They say short term memory is the first thing to go. EDIT: I almost forgot... If GT5 is vaporware, what does that make of Alan Wake?...
Perfectly said, bubbles to you.
Turn 10 knew exactly what they were saying when they claimed Forza 3 was the "definitive racer this gen". They were sending a back handed comment to Polyphony Digital and if you cannot see that, then you have been bamboozled by Turn 10 and their PR trickery. Turn 10 has made a great racing game but they are nipping at the heals of a mighty giant and that giant is going to squash them this holiday season. I am not saying this as a PS3 fan, I am saying this as a Gran Turismo fan. I love cars and GT has always offered the most cars.
If you didn't know that the GT franchise sold way more than the Forza series..you must have been in a coma for almost 14yrs. I still think GT is the best of the 2, but Forza is also a great racing game for the Xbox360..the online racing is awesome. So until GT5 releases it's the best racing game out at the moment..Go ahead and disagree..
Turn 10 said only what was true. Forza Motorsport 3 has no competition. Gran Turismo is not competition, they're not even on the same console. They compete only in terms of overall presentation but not directly with each other. Any comparisons they drew beteen Forza and GT were merely proffessional (eg, to compare with an established brand). Turn 10 worked hard to push their product and they stood behind it all the way. In America we call this business. Polyfony isn't any more honorable since all they have to do is spit on a bluray and it would sell. At least Turn 10 shows their hard work in their finished product and doesn't charge you for demos or prologues. Turn 10 DEFINED what an online car community should be and how customization should work. Their work in car modeling and physics is sublime. They worked hard to deliver their definitive product, where other developers refuse to rise to the challenge.
PD was glad when Turn 10 was talking all that bull; More money for them when angry 360 owners who thought they bought the definitive racer sell their Forza 1-2-3 and their 360 to buy PS3's, PSP's, GTPortable, GT5 and downloadable Content for it! @Above: Strange that the non-competition sold more demos than Forza 1-2-3 combined! I'd feel less competitive when people would choose to play a demo over my full retail game!
In less time than Polyphony Digital. I'm not going to hold my breath because it will never happen. Turn10 is just not dedicated enough to their work. Sure, they release their games every two years. But I bet that Forza 6, whenever it comes out, won't even have as much content as GT5 does. Yes. Forza won't even catch up to GT5 on their 6th try. Btw, watch Blacktigra own Omega down there. This is what he said: Which is why the Forza series as a whole hasn't even outsold GT3 yet and also why the "over priced" "demo" on a "Blu-Ray player" Which "nobody buys games for" that "comes no where near" the "definitive Racer of this generation" out sold Forza 3.
You say PD "speaks with it's products". What product? The one that's going to come out a year after the competition, and still has no release date? Look at it this way - what if Lexus introduced a 2009 model car, then Acura introduced a similar car in 2010. Would it be an accurate comparison if Acura said "Our 2010 model has more features than your 2009 model does"? Of course not - anyone with a brain knows that. The later model will ALWAYS have more features. When you wait a year, you are expected to add features that the competition doesn't have. Plus, you have the luxury of seeing what the competition does right, and copying that in your game (rewind, damage, etc.) Had GT5 released at the same time as Forza 3, it's extra features would have been very impressive. However, PD was clearly not ready to release last year, despite their claims to the contrary ("we can release any day now" - remember that? How do you go from "any day" to "70% complete"? PD spreads some fud too. Of course, we all know how it works in Greywulf world: 1)Sales = quality 2)Any high review score for a 360 exclusive is meaningless 3)Dismiss all Forza features as "meaningless", while you build up EVERY GT feature as a must-have, game-changing experience.
But GT5 will have close to three times the content that Forza 3 has... and that's with only a year difference.
It's not just a year. Don't Forget, Turn 10 released a full, highly rated Forza game in 2007 (Forza 2)- PD released only a prologue in 2008. GT5 has been in development a LOT longer than just the extra year. BTW - you say Turn 10 doesn't deliver the same quality as PD? Forza 1,2, & 3 are ALL rated higher than the last 2 GT's (GT4 & GT5P). You have to go all the way back to 2001 to find a higher rated GT. Of course, you can always pull a Greywulf and say "reviews don't matter" so you can invent your own definition of quality.
@ soxfan2005 lol. Yes scores for gt4 were low because lack of online wich was promised by KY. And trying compare gt5prologue to a full game is laughtlable. Still forza after 3rd iteration didn't menage to sell more copies than ANY FULL GT TITLE combined (1,2,3). Still they didn't cath up in therms of content. After 3rd game they have half of content in comparition to GT4 and few more features with shinner graphic and better physic system. Well done they menaged catch up to 6 year old game. It is nice to have competition but claiming superiority of any game because there is no competition for now is like claiming you are the best swimmer around the globe because phelps is on vacation. And also since where time of developing is factor in choosing the best game of this generation and probably the best racing game till now. Forza 3 is good sim racer and fun game and yes it is probably best racing game till now and that is ONLY because there haven't been any full GT release since forza started as franchize. Also i don't know why everybody downplays share numbers of cars and tracks. Yes features of game are neat but we are talking here about racing game. If you give game 100 features more than X game but you cut it in therm of content you don't get better game. Content is almost everything for a racing game. So less tracks and cars = shorter game life in our console.
What is this forza thing you guys are talking about?
Please read the article, I was referring to the part of the artile which says: "The latest instalment, Gran Turismo for PSP has already clocked up 1.8 million copies. That's more than the original Forza Motorsport sold on Xbox" It's also worth noting that Forza 2 and 3 does have a dedicated fanbase you just have to look at the art work. Regarding the the relative small fan base compared to gran turismo, having a smaller fan base doesn't mean the game isn't good or even as good as gran turismo. The ps3 has enough examples too highlight this point Uncharted vs halo etc, we all know uncharted is the better game even though the lower sales.
Didnt gt5 prologue ( you know that "mediocre" demo) do circles on forza 2 a game released a year earlier? Anyways GT is to Sony what Mario and Halo are to Microsoft and Nintendo so its a no brainer.
Ah... and everyone Actually Need an Article Stating The Obvious...Unbelievable Don't Forget that GT5 will come out This Year and that Game is The King of Sales, so this article can't be more Pointless Anyway Gamers FTW!!!
There is nothing wrong with touting your game. Let that settle in. Pretty much EVERY SINGLE GAME is marketed as something awesome by the publisher/developer. That isn't a problem. The problem is saying that it is better than another game. Just make the game as best you can and let the gamers decide!
So this mean that the Halo series is the best FPS games ever?
In your analysis of how long its been in development, you also fail to realize that Turn 10 has 3 times as many employees as PD does. PD is at about 100 and Turn 10 is at about 300. So in 2 years with 300 employees, they were able to add much better physics, better graphics, a rewind feature, more cars and more tracks from forza 1 and 2(the physics in forza 3 are 10x better than the crap physics in forza 2) In the 5 years with 100 people since GT4 was they released, they released GT5p and GT psp and with GT5, they were able to introduce realistic graphics, a change in the physics, 2.5x as many cars, weather, night/day, data logger.
Just as in many faulty analyses, especially modern journalism and the way a majority population examines the problems and socioeconomic failures of the minority within the population, this analysis fails to examine the context behind GT's success. When GT first came out, it was one of a kind. The video game market was pretty defined too; either you got a N64 or a PS1. The playstation platform gained a lotta ground on nintendo because it made itself look like the future of gaming. the PLATFORM drew in a lot of consumers, widening the pool for potential buyers of the first 2 GTs, advertised as the realest racing got on consoles--ALL CONSOLES. It was. This brought over a large amount of faithfuls to PS2, which still had one iteration of GT before the first Forza. The xbox was a new and not very respected console for a while. There was no way in hell that Forza started off with the power of GT, if it had, it would have been a consumerism phenomenon. The pool of potential buyers was a lot smaller than the playstation brand, which was established, not to mention that Forza had to compete against GT where in the past, GT had no competitors that mattered. Forza was trying to matter. More specifically, Forza was competing against peoples' willingness to get a PS2 over a XBOX, which resulted in GT sells. Taking all of this in context, the respect and sales that the Forza franchise has accumulated is amicable. If Forza was a Playstation 1st or 3rd party franchise, we'd ALL be talking about it a little different. It would probably be in the 30 millions of sales if the release dates were consistent but the platforms were PS2 and PS3
GT5 will sells 7 million+. Heck, maybe even 10 million. Many of you may not accept it, but GT is much bigger than Halo. Especially since it has a worldwide appeal unlike Halo's American centric appeal.
just cause you have a keyboard and a moniter and a n4g account really doesnt give you the write to thik your opinion is even remotely logical or correct....turn 10 put the bullseye on themselves all this hate towards them is karma. you defending them in every article just shows you dont understand much, and your naive....grey wolf was saying that pd doesnt trash talk or respond to turn 10's smearing campaign they just just keep working hard on their game and that will shut turn 10 up...and you think that year wait or the fact that pd is releasing a game so long after turn 10's racing sim makes this article pointless well the fact that the majority of racing sim enthusuists arent buying forza 3 and their waiting for gt5 that doesnt even have a release date yet what does that say lol. I guess your beloved review scores for forza 3 arent enough to sway the majority to not to wait for a game that has no release date lol....the sales for forza 3 prove my point not saying there bad just saying i know theres more sim fans out there so its obvious the long list of features that greywolf listed to you before is enough for them to wait patiently.....oh and by the way soxsfann learn to admit defeat. im almost embarrassed for you. use logic and evidence for once, stop pulling sh*t that doesnt add up outta your ass, its getting pathetic....peace
GT5 as much as I wanted to try it a year ago...I'm over it. Game just took way too long to come out and now starcraft is coming out. oh well
Year after year Polyfony conceded defeat by not releasing a competent and DEFINITIVE Gran Turismo product. What they did instead was prove that brand power can sell by making fans pay for a demo. PS3 fans say ODST was a boo-boo on Bungie's part for being a collection of DLC and new campaign when Polyfony does the same with their Prologues. PS3 phonyboy = hyprocrit.
is the difference between the Japanese and Americans when it comes to business. The Japanese have stood by the principle of quality and however long it takes the product will not be released until that time comes. Where as in America it's a sequel every other year philosophy whether or not the product is good. Many American consumers don't have the patience to wait for a quality product. I think good things come to those who wait. If it takes until the end of the year then it will be worth it. If the product is disappointing then the Gran Turismo series will be disabled just as the Need for Series was with lack of quality being pushed out.
The only differences I see with Polyphony Digitals' Prolog GT's is that they offer more than 90% of the racing games out on the market during their release and they sell for 2 dollars less than a standard retail game. Heck, they sell more than Forza's full retail games too so maybe this argument should continue after the release of GT5. It's also funny to note when F3 was being released, so many Xbox fanboys were putting up their comparison videos and pictures trying to slam GT5 but now that GT5 is coming closer to release date, they simply say the games cannot be compared as they are not ont he same platform... Funny times I tell ya.
Buuutttt... Sales =/= quality
Did you even hear the new engine sounds on GT5? Its the best on any racing simulator! Gran Turismo 5 is gonna dazzle everyone :-)
GT series have been out for 13+ years and they are comparing it to Forza sells-wize. Oh, I see the "Headstart" excuse doesn't apply here. It doesn't surprise me that GT PSP sold that many, when was the last time a Super title was release on the PSP, PSP users are desperate for more quality titles. Me included.
Gran Turismo 5 Prologue has sold more than Forza 2 GT PSP has sold more than Forza 3/ How's that for "headstart"?
GT5p:~3.6mil Forza 2:~4.2mil Forza 3:~2.4mil
Stop blowing garbage out of your arse. Forza 2 sold 4.15m while GT5P sold 3.36 meanwhile GT5 PSP is at 1.8m while Forza 3 is at 2.15m. Or are you just running your mouth for effect? What's really sad is that there are people out there agreeing with you while not fact checking anything as you didn't before putting out your comment without producing any number. That's some weak sh!t.
these numbers are not hard to look up. GT5P has sold 4.65 million as of Dec 30 2009. http://www.polyphony.co.jp/...
Forza already overheated while Gran Turismo has been in first place since the 90's. :)
So Forza must be the far superior game then. Since games with low sales are always better, but i bet that only applies to PS3 exclusives.
I can't believe you even showed up in here. lol :)
Has it even broken a million yet? As PD would say... Turn WHO?
One of the dumbest articles i ever read, period. He compares the sales of Forza1 on xbox (an install base of 25 million) To the sales of GT PSP (an install base of 60 million). And then he acts like its impressive that GT PSP outsold Forza1. Also he thinks its impressive that the GT series sold 4 x as much, while there has been 6 x as much GT games out. For your information as well, Forza 3 is nearing the 3 million copy's, and Forza 2 did 4 million copies in its lifetime, at this rate Forza 3 will outsell Forza 2 with ease.
First of all don't try to act like GT only has sales. Millions love the series and it also has great reviews. Now I've said this millions of times on here. Sales don't reflect quality but they DO reflect what the general public is interested in more. And the general public believes Gran-Turismo>>>>Fo rza. Which is why the Forza series as a whole hasn't even outsold GT3 yet and also why the "over priced" "demo" on a "Blu-Ray player" Which "nobody buys games for" that "comes no where near" the "definitive Racer of this generation" out sold Forza 3.
i would agree with omega but turn 10 are a bunch of douchbags so they deserve what ever they get also this shows not all xbox games sell 5 mil+, im not saying anyone said they did but still....
You guys are really stupid to think Forza has sold poorly. Forza 3 outsold every PS3 exclusive (apart from U2 I believe) released last year, what does that say about PS3 games in general eh? GT has been around longer so more people know about it thats the only reason it sells better.
Got some numbers to back up those claims, or did you just drop by to troll around a little? By the way, I thought that "teh salez" were all that matters and any game that didn't score 2 million sold on day 1 was a flop... But I bet that only applies to 360 exclusives (see, it works both ways).
Sorry , bungie ( or is it omega ? well no matter ) PD was busy creating a real framework for real cars and experimenting their data log technology ( as seen in the last official gt videos ).. they were just working on tuning and experimenting on real cars for huge competitions around the world in order to have enough data to make GT what it is today ... ( gt5 , gt psp and so on ) Some were speaking on foroms and bashing .. other were working ...and so far ..even gt psp sold 1.8M..
It's incredible how the "little" GT psp sold that much. Thankfully fans dont pay attention to mediocre reviews.
that rule only applied to the PS3 exclusives...haven't you noticed?
Since GT1 sold over 10 million copies before it was an established franchise, then we could, by your logic, conclude that every single Forza has been a failure, yes? I mean, by its third iteration of the franchise it still can't muster up a measly 10 million.
PD have been in the game too long and know exactly what they need to do to make GT5 the definitive racing game of this gen. Turn 10 started this silly war by talking junk to PD while PD just sat back and watched. You can deny it all you want but GT is the definitive series while Forza is just the upstart. There is such a thing as good sales for good games. If Forza was any good, maybe it would have sold better.
you don't know wtf your talking about, Forza III has sold 2.5 million so far. By the time GT5 launches, Forza 4 will be at 3 million sales LOL!!!
And it will still have 8 cars on screen.
... and it will still have sold less than GT5prologue. Keep playing sales. edit: Greywulf beat me to it.
The only sad thin is, that 4,5 Million people actually bought a Demo... (i was one of them). Why people can´t accept that there are more genius Racing Games out there. Forza 3 is great, and i hope GT5 will be great too. And shame to this site for bad journalism, wich only want to get clicks. Sure GT sells more than Forza. GT already have 8+ Games in the Series and startet in PSone. Many years later came Forza on Xbox.
Forza 3 is the best Sim racer this gen. We still don't even have a release date for gt5, it might not even come out this year. Heck, at this rate I'm willing to bet forza 4 will be done before pd decides to even announce the release Date of gt5.
But given that GT5 has a 10 year window, doesn't that make your comment a bit hollow? Lame? I mean Forza 3 by all counts doesn't even measure up to GT5p, so I'm thinking GT5 pr