Newscientist writes: A LONG-lived videogaming skill could be on the way out this year as Microsoft hones an add-on to its Xbox 360 console aimed at making button-studded games controllers obsolete. The device, called Natal after the city in northern Brazil, allows players to control a game using only their body movements and voice. Robbie Bach, Microsoft's president of entertainment and devices, announced at the CES show in Las Vegas, Arizona, this week that Natal would go on sale in November.
A player standing anywhere between 0.8 and 4 metres from Natal is illuminated with infrared light. A monochrome video camera records how much of that light they reflect, using the brightness of the signal to approximate their distance from the device and capture their movements in 3D.
This means Natal doesn't require users to wear markers on their body - unlike the technology used by movie studios to animate CGI figures.
Microsoft collected "terabytes" of data of people in poses likely to crop up during game play, both in motion capture studios and their own homes. Frames from the home videos were manually labelled to identify key body parts, and the data was then fed into "expert system" software running on a powerful cluster of computers. The result was a 50-megabyte software package that can recognise 31 different body parts in any video frame.
The most notable reveal would perhaps by the requirements of the Xbox 360 console itself. While Microsoft has insisted since the original unveiling of Kinect at the Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) in 2009, then known as Project NATAL, that the device would be compatible with all Xbox 360 consoles, the revelation of a dedicated port included on the newly redesigned Xbox 360 model has sparked rumours of incompatibility, which were quickly debunked.
Replies(12)
odd, i was led to believe it lacked an internal processor and so also needed a core to itself, if not 1-2 processing threads.
The article says nothing about whether the processor is internal or it uses the 360s.
Also, the notion of a dedicated port really lends nothing to the idea of older units being incompatible. I believe the kinect port is a custom usb port (think the original xbox controller ports) but one that will feed power and data.
Older models will require a splitter that will run off a single usb port (prob the back one) that will work for the data but not the power. That is why they keep saying it will have an external power for those systems.
As for the processor, combo of both makes sense. Using 360 cpu/gpu power to help calculate the finished product on screen along with the cpu in the kinect.
Remember people...this is not a cheap usb web cam (like the original live vision).
They say they are using 10-15% of one 360 P4 cores. I know that the Kinect we see today is a watered down version of the patented tech they bought and own. Maybe one day the " real " tech will be cost effective. It still is very impressive tech even without a super computer running it.
No, the previous artical said they removed a processor, but I would guess that it had more than 1 to start with. So it will have some form of processor still within it. Arm9 or Cortex M3, all dirt cheap now but powerful.
Does it matter? They showed Forza Kinect that looked amazing working with Kinect real time!
Are you just talking about how the graphics are able to look amazing while working with Kinect? If that's what you're talking about, ok. The game itself, though, well... I think I'll stick with the real Forza, with an Xbox 360 control pad. The limited-control Kinect Forza they showed doesn't look like it's worth any attention, in my opinion. Why would anyone want to control a car like that, with hands held out and holding onto nothing, with no control over acceleration or braking? Just seems totally pointless to me.
You guy know that the motion tech is from prime sense right? Please go to their web site primesense.com,and have a look at what they say the tech can do. It can read fingers well enough to type with each finger and can be used while sitting. No one ever said it has to scan the entire body to work. What we have seen from kinect so far is not all it is capable of.
Reading these specs and trying to compare them to PSeye is pointless, because they are different types of cameras and provide completely differnt types of info to the consoles (Kinect is a 3D camera and provides 3D images. PSeye is a 2D camera and provides 2D images). Per Primsense, the camera is capable of providing video at 60fps, but the 3D is 30fps. The specs for 2 players active is for full body scans. There are no specs given for people sitting and just using their hands.
This tech is obviously a work in progress and has yet to be fleshed out. I suggest all you N4G Kinect experts, research before you post you doom and gloom so you atleast have solid facts for you skepticism. You can also relax and see what M$ does with the tech insteat of pretending to know more that the people developing the tech.
The game was available for people to try on the show floor at E3 so yes it was real time. Wetter you like it for Forza or not wasn't my point.
That is up to the developer to figure out.
So pretty much the same spec as the PS Eye, although I thought the eye went up to 120 Hertz...
The eye goes to 60Hz i think. Regardless the eye should be capable to do any Kinect shown so far with less lag. (they revolve on a 2D axis and only use the depth tracking to separate players.) I am really disappointed by the tech and how it is utilised thus far.
More or less powerful we need to see the product.
So far it seem the pseye can do anything kinect can do.
2d 3d I not yet see the advantage.
no, the PSEye cannot do 3D tracking. Kinect can.
the PSEye does 2D motion recognition, Kinect does 3D motion tracking. they are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
Going from alkaline to lithium was a significant step for batteries, but at the end of the day it is just a battery. PSEye and Kinect are kind of the same way. At the end of the day it is a game camera - with camera games.
@Sheikh Yerbouti: your example is not really on the same scale of difference as PSEye/Kinect.
a better example using batteries would be the jump from standard batteries to rechargable batteries. theyre both doing the same thing - being batteries - but one of them does things that the other one cannot possibly do, which is be recharged and used again. it does everything the standard battery does, and more.
Kinect does everything the PSEye does (2D motion recognition), and more (3D motion tracking). no amount of software updates can change the hardware in the PSEye, and the hardware is not capable of 3D motion tracking as it lacks infra-red.
Yes i see your point but how you guys feel about the PS3 can be said the same way.
The PS3 may produce better graphics and be more powerful then the Xbox360, but by the end of they day its still only a console. Also inferior to PC :)
... PSeye can do 3d as you say... even eyetoy... they used shadows and other stuff to recognize it.
Move is also 3d...
Lithium batteries are rechargeable batteries.
Kinect isn't a true 3D camera - it can't render a picture of your butt if you are always facing front. It makes an approximate 3D model using visual cues. The PSEye can do the same, although it will be cruder.
Plus, just because the technology is different, doesn't necessarily mean gameplay will be.
@lams12
Yes, you're right. Similarly Kinect will have some good games, different from PSEye, only if Microsoft makes them. But they haven't made games too different from the PSEye.
Which is what i meant from the start. None of the games they have shown so far could not have been on the PS Eye.
"Tracks up to 6 people, including 2 active players"
I think now its official that just 2 ppl can play at the same time.
Only room for two anyway when you think about it...
but it can keep track of six people during a game in regards to facial recognition. I think that's impressive.
I would love to have Kinect built into my laptop, so only I can get in even without a password. Why is Microsoft wasting this on the XBox again?
still couldn't play it sitting down. Honestly, some guys are so easily impressed by copy cat technology.
i was at the engadget show and kudo showed its 3d tracking and when two people where on screen......one person would be red while the other would be green.......but as soon as a third person steped into the camera view two people automatically turned gray and it couldnt read their movements well.
what i took away from that event is that the kinect is pretty kool but for right now it can only work with two people(they could still be working on it)
Xbox Evolved:
"Microsoft is holding no breaks in making sure the general public knows all about Kinect. What cooler spot to also show it than with Jimmy Fallon? "
although i usually watch fallon. i'll have to catch an internet clip of it later.
I'm sure it's just the usual marketing stuff, so nothing really interesting. Pretty much learned everything about the device at E3.
The more I see this targeted at non-gamers, the sadder I get.
I want a Kinect game I can be *proud* to own as a gamer. One day.
I saw it full of lag. The girls was standing there and her character just started twitching out of control.
Plus you can clearly see the game is full of Lag. Regardless though i don't care...its a piece of tech directed to casual gamers so kudos to MS for this. Unfortunately i don't fall into the casual crowd so this does not interest me one bit.
What does interest me though is a cheaper 360 slim with a hard drive and wifi capablities for 50 or maybe 100 bucks cheaper
was pretty funny. same demos they showed at E3 though. Nothing new. But they sure are marketing it quick.
Yeah they did the same thing the day after they announced Natal last year with Good Morning America and Fallon back when it was called Natal. No doubt this thing will sell I suspect. Will it succeed technically though is the question
wow first that girl's co-worker hosts the Kinect event and now she's her playing it. I see the audience Microsoft is definitely going after with Bieber, Cosgrove and McCurdy - teenage pop audiences.
All E3 was a buzz about the various announcements, one of which was the official unveiling of Kinect (previously known as Project Natal).
While Microsoft is holding the pricing close to their chest until a later date, you can now pre-order Kinect
It will never sell! If they try to sell it for $149 it will fail! People don't like console add-on's !
Sound Familiar? Crow doesn't taste so good does it people? It's lighting up sales charts and if it wasn't for the new, sleek, slim, sexy Xbox 360S, Kinect would be number 1 all over.
Where's Move at again? ahhh yeah bottom of the list. Slap slap slap slap slap
its only:
$149.99
BUT IT QUALIFIES FOR:
this item ships for FREE with SUPER SAVER SHIPPING
O and buy it with Kinect Sports for only:
Price For Both: $209.98
How did I get 2 disagrees when I listed facts. How can you disagree with facts?
Anyways I am still not going to pre order this
Oh, just so you know. If you ever complain about getting disagrees on N4G and fill out another comment bubble, people will will disagree with you even more just for the hell of it. I know i did.
Anyway, when is Kinect coming out? If it's cheap enough, or i find a $99 arcade 360 i might get another one just to play Dead Rising 1 again.
Wow
Edit: Crapgamer, I've read your comment(slowly this time) and I think you're confused...no?
Is that sarcasm? People are pre-ordering this and it's selling like hotcakes.
Pre order= Not sold yet
A pre order can be canceled, so take it easy on the disagree.
The item is not sold untill shipped to the custumer.
If im wrong, please comment...
Personally I won't be pre-ordering : From Kotaku here http://kotaku.com/5565777/x...
"UPDATE: A Microsoft spokesperson told me after the publication of this article that the company is certain that Kinect gesture control will work for movies, ESPN and other "entertainment" features before the sensor is launched. As I originally reported, that is not an implemented feature yet. The spokesperson was not able to provide any update on the Kinect's tolerance of a person who sits while playing games."
So the only thing that looked mildly amusing for 10 mins - the media control stuff - is also not working (yet), and even if working, may not work sitting down.... So what we saw as MS's output from E3, is a bunch of choreographed vids.
I think a lot of pre-orders will be cancelled or a lot of people will have bought something they don't use.
r.
Sadly it will sell just as the Wii did. I hope that Microsoft sticks to hardcore though. From the looks of it, it's garnished completely for the casual gamers.
--Edit--
For the disagreer(s), what game is hardcore for the Kinect?
alot of people are about to be disapointed
i guess they think alot of new games will come to it
till then im good on it
There are that many people who would be sold on something that does not work. Yes I was at E3 and no Kinect did not work. It does lag really bad. And I'm not talking about a 1/100 of a second I am talking about 1/2-1 second lag.
If you ended up playing halo or any core game with this everyone would just suck. There are not going to be any core games, not even a 1:1 star wars game because the latency is god awful.
My Avatar continuously seemed to think I had jumped when I was only standing.
Seriously, I got flamed because I didn't have the perfect prices and added tax i'll fix that lets look at Natal.
Natal
150+taxes13% = 169.99
Or
40- (PSEYE)=Motion Control Games.
50+50 (Dual moves)- 50 if only needing one.
30- (Nunchuck)
---
120-170!!! :(!
Taxes+13%
135-192!!!!!
Move is the better deal depending on which games you are playing and if you have PS eye (No one on my friends list does). But comeon, thats too much to shell out for a controller, the price better decrease! Natal should of been 50 dollars to compete properly with the likes of Wii.
Both of these options are expensive if you ask me. How many people really have the PSEye? Move is really only the better deal if you only have one person playing. If you have a friend with you then you need to shell out for that second player.
I think that both Microsoft and Sony are crazy with these prices. At least with Wii the motion control came with it. For games like Brawl you could pick up a Gamecube controller for $15 from Gamestop if you wanted some classic control.
Dont forget that we still have to buy a compatible game for them. They'll probably sell those games around $40-$60 depending if it's casual or hardcore.
I only need to get one move and a nunchuck.
Funny thing is according to an interview with Don on GTTV its gonna be REALLY cheap, this is a cut I read on a forum:
Geoff - "ok, are we gonna like the price though?"
Don - "uhhh, I think you are gonna ..really like the price"
Geoff - "are we gonna be surprised at how low it is?"
Don - "uh, we sat through the other competitors press breifings and people were very please with our position, I like being with Microsoft this holiday.
Link:
http://www.gametrailers.com...
at about 12:30 mins I think
Link or it didn't happen!
Edit: You redeemed yourself with the link, but that "Don" is a VP of MS.
Anyway, I wonder if Blur will end up backwards compatible with Kinect? I saw the little ad was taking a jab at Mario Kart. Oh, and the Asian chick dancing...Hot!!! I bet she's the bomb in the sack, lol.
I like the guy but he seems really confident that MS will smash Sony this holiday season, I suppose it all depends on how much they want to put Kinect out for!
It depends on what games will support it properly and how useful it will be while playing said game.
even if this did sell fanboys dont see the point.
question isnt if its gonna sell, its will it work with hardcore games.
we all can see from the wii's success that if the company sells tons it doesnt mean that an onslaught of games for the gamer will come. no its simple stupid games that will sell and people will eat them up.
kinect will fail the gamer not the market.
MS knows how to lie to its consumers and advertise so that might work, but for the smart person who knows it doesnt work *the gamer* they wont buy it.....well besides the fanboy
I strongly have doubts about Natal going controller-free.
I mean, I can understand MS wanting to appeal to a more casual audience, but they are also planning on putting more of their hardcore games like Gears on Natal. It can result in games being forced, gimmicky, and can end in disaster.
I'm also not sure if MS is aiming to run the 360 and Natal side by side or if MS is aiming to replace the 360 with Natal. I say this because MS boasts Natal for being controller free as if controllers are useless and archaic. Yet, their 360 controller (and the 360 to a lesser point) is, by Natal's words, archaic.
Anyways, I'm just not interested in motion control, but it will definitely be cool to try out Natal and play games aimed at it's design. If MS can get pricing and marketing right Natal can be pretty significant.
Natal?