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Who Said Xbox 360 Is Maxed Out? Nothing But Fallacies

You know what? Let's get something straight: The PS3's hardware is more advance than Xbox 360, that's something we all can agree on, but that does not mean the Xbox 360 is maxed out; not by a long shot. Year after year the same claim is being made, yet year in and year out developers continue to push the boundaries on the Xbox 360.

Bioware had something to say about this issue recently, the company still believes that there's still a lot of juice left in the 360, going as far as denying that the system has reached its full potential:

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Godmars2903675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Have yet to see any real examples of 360's graphic abilities advancing past Gears1. That says something.

Edit:
@below: Some parts of Gears 2 don't look as well as Gears 1. Just an opinion. You can mix pics of Forza 2 with 3 and have problems picking the right ones.

Tony-A3675d ago

Looked about the same to me...

DAVID BRENT3675d ago

facts and evidence speak for themselves even though hardened fanboys still comically try dispute that fact without evidence,but i do think a little more can be squeezed out the 360 and this year we should hopefully see that

mikeslemonade3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

We have not seen any evidence that prooves that the 360 still has power left. None of the games have looked significantly better since 2007's Bioshock. What other evidence is bigger than the 360 not being able to make a better looking game in more than two years? Now COD4, COD6, and Gears 2 do look better but it's not a significant leap.

The developers are of course going to say it's better because not as many people would buy a game that is visually the same. The developers are correct that there is some more power to be harnessed out of the 360 but the 360 making a significant leap in graphics is gone.

Mass Effect 2 looks the same. What Bioware is meant is they have learned from the issues from Mass Effect 1. Mass Effect 1 is already an impressive looking game, but the point is Mass Effect 2 looks essentially the same as 1.

In 2010's Xbox 360 exclusive game lineup I don't see a game that will disprove this theory. The only game that even has a chance to is Halo Reach because that is an unknown. Who knows?

IrishAssa3675d ago

Yeah im not saying Gears 2 is years beyond Gears 1 but it does look better than the first.
His comment should be 'Have yet to see any real examples of 360's graphic abilities advancing past Gears 2. That says something.

I don't think there will be any real jumps in graphics for the 360, just games that look nice like alan wake but are about the same in quality of the other games

Godmars2903675d ago

I actually blame Epic for introducing the Unreal engine, its quick adaption by the industry, for a lot of graphic issues with this console generation. It just wasn't ready or just plain broken. Took a good chunk of time and effort at the start to get running right, time that could have been spent making better engines.

RememberThe3573675d ago

It it is becoming very clear that the people working on the 360 aren't able to push the hardware very hard. The 360 has only been able to show it's best graphics with multi-platform games. That is not the fault of the hardware, but of the developers.

THE MAX SPEED 213675d ago

"Who Said Xbox 360 Is Maxed Out?"

PS3 fanboys of course.

presto7173675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

what a joke.

360 is a good system, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. the thing has its limitations.

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THE MAX SPEED 213675d ago

3sq

I'm not a Xbox Fanboy I love the PS3. I hate you guys here. There's a Difference.

I dont need no proof. You're a living example of the guys that bash the xbox all the time. And you can go back and look @ older articles to get your proofs go check out earlier articles from a few weeks back like the ones about Reach etc etc.

bjornbear3675d ago

oh dear...i think we can consider you a victim of internet bullying ='( you poor soul

bs though, 360 fanboys are just as bad or worst, they are just hiding in this site because they get ripped apart =)

but i agree, i doubt 360 has been maxed, but when reach arrives, it will be

ActionBastard3675d ago

If it isn't maxed, where are the games that AREN'T running UE3, that look like Uncharted 2?

darx3675d ago

Come November the 360 will be out for 5 years with possibly another 2-3 years after that before we get the newest XBox. And not much will change in the industry in those extra 2-3 years.

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wicko3675d ago

Bioware is hardly in any place to comment on this. Their characters models look great but their environments leave a lot to be desired. And sorry, but Dragon Age looking like one of the best this generation? Not even close.. even on PC I see so many bland low resolution textures (I'm running the game on max settings).

Jdoki3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

I think there's plenty of headroom left in the 360. The problem is twofold...

1. MS don't have enough proprietry game engines from 1st parties

2. MS don't have a developer network, working together, to share info/expertise.

Compare the number of 1st party engines that Sony have to MS. Compare the ICE team and the developer network to what MS has.

This is not intended as a fanboy post, purely something that Sony is doing well that MS could learn from.

The bigger point here is that even with out graphically superior games, the 360 is selling well and providing great games (well, sort of... 2008/9 was dry). There's nothing wrong with using UE3 if the game play is great! But for showcasing next gen gaming, the PS3 is where it's at. And if the PS3 continues to be the showcase for graphics, then eventually it will become a significant differentiator and help shift more hardware.

EDIT: @etownone. 'but everyone will agree that multi-plat games looked and played much better on the 360'. That's rubbish. I own both consoles, and the differences have been negligable for a long time - and in very few cases has the 360 been 'much' better.

Christopher3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Hardware on both consoles is maxed out. It's up to the software developers to make magic happen with their games, which means creating new methods to make the hardware work for them as best as possible.

As far as graphics... Mass Effect 2 on the 360 looks about the same as the first one based on Game Journalists who went to the preview showing last month. And much like I was with Killzone 2's CGI scene at E3 years ago, I'm not going to believe that any of what I saw in the Halo: Reach premier is going to look the same when you're actually playing the game rather than watching a cut scene. Cut scenes can be done in engine, but that doesn't mean they can't boost textures, lighting, and physics in those cut scenes since they aren't processing anything dynamically, it's all scripted.

Godmars2903675d ago

You know actually, honestly, pretty sure it was Epic who said it. With Gears 2, though it might have been gears 1, they said how proud they were about pushing the 360 to 80% or 90% of its capacity but soon backtracked when someone finally realized what they were saying: it as early in the 360 life, yet they were already nearing its limit.

blackpanther253675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

but to ps3 owners who are used to playing games like Uncharted, killzone, heavenly sword, gt5p and etc.....it doesn't matter which version is slightly better because they both look mediocre.

Graphics wise assassin's creed 2 doesn't look special(im used to UC2) but i have been playing it anyway like crazy(my friend bought it for his 360) cause it is a really fun game. /thats just how i feel about that

On a side note: i don't believe the 360 is fully max. I just think the developers aren't trying to graphically better games. I mean look at valve...They still haven't let go of the source engine

Rock Bottom3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Doesn't matter if it's maxed out or not, actually, I think using the term "maxed out" is a bet ignorant. The thing is, there's a limit for a hardware power, a certain amount of tasks it can do at the same time, and I'm sure that limit has been reached on both 360 and PS3.

Now how can you control the "hardware" and use it in the most efficient way to make things look better yet consume less memory/processing power is something that can only be maxed out in theory, seeing as how huge games are in this generation while there's only a certain amount of time developers can dedicate for optimizing their codes.

That being said, I think GeOW still looks Much better than ME2, and while reach really looks nice, we've only seen cut-scenes, even though they were in-game-engine cut-scenes, the graphic wasn't as impressive as say MGS4 or Uncharted 2's(or even one) in-game cut-scenes. My point is, what's being said on games site about how the 360 is not "maxed out" is pointless if the games aren't getting better graphically.

sikbeta3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

What?

Third Party Devs use 1 Engine to make a game for PC/x360 cuz is easy to program for and more whiny stuff and then they port the games to the PS3, that's why multiplat games look better on x360

Unbelievable Way to be delusional

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nycredude3675d ago

I own both consoles, and prefer my Ps3 but until 360 comes out with games that can hang with the heavy hitters on the Ps3 in my eye it is maxed out.

Heck I am playing Rachet and Clank ACIT and I am pretty sure the 360 couldn't handle the level of chaos on the screen in that game. There is like thousand things going on on screen at all times! Crazy!

Etownone
So you would prefer that 360 be know for the king of the sometimes marginally better, ok multiplatform games rather than king of great games. What ever floats your boat. I find it telling that you elitist fans of 360 still think that the Ps3 only has a couple of great exclusives. Still can't see the writing on the wall. Sad. Denial IMO.

muDD3675d ago

The cell may be more advanced than the three dual cores in the 360, BUT, and I do mean BUT, the 360's graphix card is more advanced than the ps3's graphix hardware. and that's a fact. those who dissagree have no clue on the hardware of either system.

Jdoki3675d ago

@muDD

That's what makes the discussion kinda interesting.

Most sane people know the 360's GPU is better than the PS3's. But the amount of work that is being offloaded to the SPE's is obviously having a very large impact on graphical quality.

What the 360 could actually do if it had the same 1st party resources and network as Sony would be interesting - but all we really have as a benchmark for proprietry engines is Halo 3 - and I was disappointed in that engine. It appears Reach is running a completely new engine - so maybe that will show more of the power of 360.

muDD3675d ago

Good point, but from the footage that has been presented of alan Wake... Remedy has a pretty powerful engine that is taking advantage of the 360's capabilities. Despite of what people say, Alan Wake's graphix and phizix are just as good or better than any game out there.

Motion3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

I think it would be safe to assume that all footage of Alan Wake seen so far is running on the PC. This has pretty much been the way they show off any game that is both on PC and 360, even though the PC version has been scrapped (for now).

Anon19743675d ago

I'm not saying it is maxed out or it's not, I simply don't know. But Gears came out in 2006 and was a graphical benchmark for the 360 until 2008, when Gears 2 came out and edged it out slightly. If the 360 isn't maxed, where are the games to prove it? Shouldn't they have been getting progressively better since Gears first came out?

No offense to Bioware, but Mass Effect was pretty to look at yet the performance was cringe worthy. Thankfully, for a game like this, this simply isn't as much an issue as it would have been in a more action orientated game.

It's all well and good to say the 360 isn't maxed out, but where's the proof? Maybe Halo Reach or Alan Wake can put this to rest but until these games are released the evidence points towards the 360 having hit a ceiling.

beans3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

And what if it's not PC? So are you agreeing the footage of Alan Wake looks better then any console game to date? Surely sounds like it and interesting to here if nothing else. For me Alan Wake is a major improvement over whats been seen on 360.Right now it's the UC of 360 just in a massive world a little bigger than oblivion I believe.

edit above @ darkride:

Your comment should of been the 1st one on this thread. It was fair and not just a typical fanboy rant with no proof.

"Maybe Halo Reach or Alan Wake can put this to rest but until these games are released the evidence points towards the 360 having hit a ceiling."

I agree

Oner3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

@ Max Speed ~ "Who Said Xbox 360 Is Maxed Out?

PS3 fanboys of course"

I think when you have developers who quite some time ago said that the 360 is maxed or that they are maxing it out like ~

Epic ~ http://www.computerandvideo...

&

Volition ~ http://www.gamespot.com/pag...

Just to name 2, PLUS a Microsoft executive (Aeron Greenburg) admit that the PS3 is more powerful ~ http://news.softpedia.com/n...

It's not a case about PS3 "fanboys" but simply just truth.

@ etownone ~ "multiplats" is all you got? Wow. You really are misinformed. Especially when as of late "multiplats" have been equal or BETTER on the PS3 but that is not even worth arguing as all anyone has to do is look at either Killzone, GT5P or Uncharted 1/2 to see for themselves the 360 has not equaled the PS3 yet...even though it has been out for 1 year longer.

@ muDD ~ You single out the GFX card for the 360 stating it is more "advanced" (which is only slightly true) but fail to understand/describe that the PS3's Cell architecture allows it to aid in the display of said graphics. So to leave out that key bit of info makes an invalid and misinformed point because it is not accurate.

edgeofblade3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Wow... I thought Microsoft was the one who spreads FUD. Now, it seems, Sony is getting into the game.

@Oner: I hear the same argument every day. "Just look at PS3 exclusives, they speak for themselves." Guess what... your preaching to a choir. That doesn't convince everyone. When Final Fantasy 13 is out for both 360 and PS3 in NA, then we will talk. Until then, your argument is like saying "It's cold outside, so Global Warming isn't happening." There is no objective way to measure it that way. Just your biased beliefs. (no global warming off-topic please)

And I'm not sure where you got the idea that multiplats are ever better on PS3 by any measurable margin. It's usually the opposite. 360 has always equaled or come out on top. I think you are probably that one PS3 fanboy who automatically always says PS3 looks better in comparison articles, especially when there is no discernible difference.

IdleLeeSiuLung3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

We all know that Gears 2 improved on Gears 1, Forza 3 improved on Forza 2, Mass Effect 2 from the looks of it greatly improved on Mass Effect 1 and finally Halo Reach is likely to improve on Halo 3. Alan Wake looks amazing.

So what is the proof then that the 360 maxed out other than the obvious fanboy drivel? It's funny how you can apply logic in one direction, but the opposite is NOT applicable!!!

mikeslemonade3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

That Alan Wake footage is not any better than the current 360 games. I can see jaggies and bland objects on screen, and those would only magnify on a HDTV. The visuals look about the same as Splinter Cell Conviction.

Consoldtobots3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

"The cell may be more advanced than the three dual cores in the 360, BUT, and I do mean BUT, the 360's graphix card is more advanced than the ps3's graphix hardware. and that's a fact. those who dissagree have no clue on the hardware of either system."

and it seems you have NO CLUE what a rendering pipeline is and how the PS3 is designed to take it to the next level. Have fun maxing out shader cores and vertex pipelines in the in-flexible limited design of the ATI GPU while PS3 devs continue migrating the pipeline to the SPUs and leaving the 360 in the dust with its antiquated strait-forward architecture.

Oner3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Actually Edgeofblade you are wrong. I can definitely admit and agree to the "multiplats" that have been graphically better on the 360 as I have no issue or problem stating that (unlike "certain types" here) because I will still play "Game Z" on whatever system and enjoy it for it's gameplay no matter what.

But you are failing to understand what I said specifically..."as of late" or recently for that matter. So again I say comparing "multiplats" doesn't prove anything, because if you have a game on the PS3 that "displays" even better than ANY 360 exclusive (let alone "multiplats") then that shows the PS3 has a better graphical prowess. And it continues to improve compared to it's counterpart (360). Honestly I don't see WTF is so hard to understand? Or is it that you/others just don't want to admit it?

But let me add this though ~ If the 360 can do better than what it can right now then great...until then I am still waiting to be proven wrong. And if I am proven wrong at that time then awesome, because how bad could it be to get better graphically enhanced games? No sir, it wouldn't bother me one bit.

Edit: @ Below...I agree 100% +Bubble to ya.

Anon19743675d ago

It's sad that the bubble system is so abused. In a perfect forum people would use the bubbles to silence those who don't contribute to the debate, not gamers interested in discussing gamer issues and furthering intelligent discussion.

Too many simply jam the bubble button when they read something that runs contrary to their point of view, rather then offering their opinion. I mean, I thought I had a valid point yet I lost a bubble. There's no rebuttal, there's no reason given, there's not even a "disagree" at this point. I really have no idea what was objectionable. I'd encourage users to, rather then just debubble, take a second and actually take part in the discussion.

@ IdleLeeSiuLung. Yes, Gears 2 was a slight improvement over Gears 2, and in Forza 3 the cars simply looked shinier than Forza 2 for the most part. And that's only 2 games over 4 years now? Mass Effect 2, Halo Reach and Alan Wake aren't out yet, so we can't judge those games yet. So yeah, there's your proof. If the 360 weren't maxed out, wouldn't we see more than just 2 games with slight improvements over the course of 4 years? There's over 700 games out for the 360, and not one of them can graphically best Gears/Gears2. If that doesn't speak of a ceiling being hit, I don't know what else to tell you. Mind you, given your posting history I don't imagine you see this as proof of anything - other than the 360 having a great library, eh? :)

vhero3675d ago

Hmm if Bungie couldn't get real HD with Halo 3 with MS help who actually designed and built the console.. I would say its pretty near maxed out.

Consoldtobots3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

You know I have seen xbox fanboys displaying such extreme ignorance about how games work with console hardware over the last few years that at this point I will try to explain as briefly and simply as I can the reason why multi-plats seem to run better on the 360. A games topology roughly goes like this,
load data
(3d model info,
textures,
physics algorithms,
3d engine data,
data algorithms(inventories,weapons ,character attributes)
animation data)

process data
display data

all of this translates into data at run time that is then sent to OpenGL-ES(PS3) or DirectX(360) to calculate triangles based on the model data, transformations based on the animation data, and lighting based on either its internal engine or a stand alone one. That being said these are HUGE and I mean HUGE APIs that are dedicated to talking to the GPUs. Alot of the work is already done for you, you don't have to figure out how to draw a line or calculate lighting because OpenGL or DirectX already provide those tools to you in the form of commands to functions designed for these tasks. You call the function, supply some arugments (if needed) and watch the action, tweak your parameters , rinse and repeat.

THAT IS MULTIPLATFORM DEVELOPMENT IN A NUTSHELL.

This is where Sony first party devs leave multiplats in the dust, they understand the old way of doing things (see above) and much like crazy Ken said they needed to break the mold in order to give people the "CGI experience" they've been looking for since the PS2 days. Now when you have so many objects on-screen that the GPU cries uncle calculating the z-buffer for or so many transformations being calculated for the vertex data that makes up the game models that it can't keep up(you start seeing characters jump around the screen with no fluid animations) you are no longer stuck saying "crap we have to tone the action down, remove characters, shrink the map, you name it are the plethora of tricks devs have figured out to give you a semi-normal gameplay experience without crapping out the hardware. Just write yourself an engine that moves z-buffer processing (backface culling, etc.) over to 2,3, maybe even 4 SPUs running at 3.2ghz to do the job for you and at the same time freeing up all that processing overhead in the GPU to do COOLER stuff like post-processing, additional lighting or rendering passes, pure pixel shading, animations, YOU NAME IT. That was Sony's whole intent in commissioning the Cell from IBM. The proof of this is that they waited an extra year for XDR ram to be ready for primetime running at 3.2ghz just like the SPUs. Imagine that coincidence.....lol

And therein lies the problem, most of the multiplat houses lack the talent, time, desire to have someone migrate GPU tasks to the SPUs in the PS3 version of a game. Let's not forget there has been furious check-writing from Redmond in an effort to ensure 3rd party devs stay nice and complacent.
)

thewhoopimen3675d ago

Good point about the 360 GPU being more powerful than the RSX. However, if you read some beyon3d forum posts, you would know the cell processor is at least as powerful as a 8800 GT churning out polygons while doing general tasks. Why do you think UC2 looks the way it does? You have both the RSX and Cell rendering polygons at the same time.

@beans- I don't know how you do it everytime...eating your own words that is. Look beans, go pull up some high res shots of Alan wake and Uncharted 2 and look for round surfaces and then count the angles on it. It takes about 2 minutes and completely disproves what you are saying. What we've seen in Alan wake so far in terms of video has shown very little in terms of whats goes on onscreen at the same time.
You could make any game look CG when you bring in only about 1 bulldozer, 3 drum cans, or 2 cop cars per scene. The point of argument this gen with consoles is that these ps3 titles aren't just showcasing the same nice graphics as the 360 in general. They're doing it with literally hundreds of things going on at the same time vs. like fifty maybe?

DevastationEve3675d ago

Maxing out...that doesn't exist.

Thinking of computer hardware as finite is fine, but how about the ability of the people working with that hardware? That's limitless, there's always more to do.

As for people who say that Xbox 360 hasn't produced great examples of its potential, it's not true at all. Gears of War 2 is not the only graphical game Xbox 360 has, and as far as it being the best that's up to the viewer. For a time I thought Bioshock had the sweetest graphics around (and damn it sure as hell still does). But I dunno...there's been so much in just the last 2 years.

Here are some highlights, if you guys are pressed to find some:

* the insane polygon counts of Resident Evil 5, as well as the extreme attention to detail of every other MT Framework 2.0 game out there. even in the original Lost Planet you could see that Capcom was doing some wicked stuff with its engine. and who can forget those awesome Devil May Cry 4 cinemas?!

* that incredible architecture shown later on in Gears of War 2, when you get to the Locust stronghold. also how about that acid rain level (it literally cuts you up)! nobody can deny that Gear's was made to be brutal. the explosions! the ruthless AI!! the rending of flesh and bone!!! and the GUNS!!!!

* the unparalleled facial animations and voice over work of Mass Effect and ME 2. it shows you that with just graphics being the focus it's not enough. characters need character, from Shepard's renegade alter-ego to Sovereign's omnipotent presence. in Mass Effect you get a front row seat to an epic story...then they pick you up off that chair and tell you that YOU need to make it happen.

* the lighting engine of Halo 3. seriously, nothing out there has come close to the epicness of zooming through a blast in Film mode and seeing that engine work. and Halo 3 also features some incredible AI, showing that enemies can figure you out even after 100 retries...they'll adapt to your strategy every time.

* the detail and finesse of Forza Motorsport 3's cars. the game looks awesome! and it's nothing new to Turn 10, they did solid work with FM 2. but they didn't stop there, they completely fleshed out their definitive racing game of this generation with the community and customization features we've come to EXPECT from gaming on Xbox Live.

* the evolution and prowess of Sega's amazing work in gaming, from building the next gen of Sonic to the first showing of Bayonetta. they've been able to work with great hardware this gen on both sides, and working with Xbox 360 never presented them with anything but great results. they've been able to survive another gen in gaming history because of their ability to keep working.

* the expertise of Square Enix in a genre they've held an anchor in America for quite some time, with their flapship Final Fantasy series. and just about every other jRPG they've made so far, even ones like Last Remnant and Infinite Undiscovery. you can't deny that no other company builds jRPGs like they do. and they've never ceased to impress with their amazing CG and cinema work.

* ...unless you count that Mystwalker hails from TRUE Squarsoft roots. and it shows, a game like Lost Odyssey could so easily be repackaged as an FF if they ever got desperate, lol! hm...correction, it could be considered as an FF from an OLD Squaresoft. one that now only exists as a relic of their former glory. something Sakaguchi strives to fight for in everything he creates: an unmistakable since of identity and originality.

darthv723675d ago

The real issue with the abilities of the 360 is lack of dedicated 1st party support. Think about it. Sony has studios that get the $$ to develop high quality engines for one system only. You cant say the same about the 360. 3rd parties are doing far more now than they did in the first batch of titles but they are still 3rd parties who have restrictions in how much they can devote (both $$ and time) to turning out quality titles.

Honestly, the only real advantages the ps3 has over the 360 (power wise) are the cell cpu and bluray storage. The 360 has the stronger gpu and both have the same amount of memory with speed being on the ps3 side and flexability on the 360. These two machine are so closely matched to each other more than ANY of console generation before it and probably afterward.

It takes $$ and time and talent to make quality games. Even those that label themselves as "exclusives" are still under the guise of 3rd party rule so they have no true dedicated engines built from the ground up to harness the 3 core cpu and edram of the 360. At the end of the day they are still just 3rd party devs who can take what they are doing on one system and make it work for the other.

I can honestly say that I truely have not seen a single game that could not be made to work between the ps3 and 360. I know I will never see a game like kz2, uc2, or heavy rain simply because those games are ONLY for ps3. If naughty dog came out right now and said we will make uncharted for 360 then we would see a game like uncharted for the 360. It will never happen so STOP with all the hypothetical blah blah blah.

Games are getting better on ALL platforms over time. There is no denying that. Just how much better depends on the talent behind them. I have seen games come out at or near the end of a console's lifetime that never even thought possible from the first game shown. Look at some of the greatness on the genesis, snes, saturn, ps2 towards the end and compare it with the first releases. YES, that is the same hardware making those games and it was the teams of programmers and developers responsible. NOT the hardware as that has remained a constant throughout the development process.

I think this gen is the most heated because both HD consoles are evenly matched from some technical perspectives. Now it is time for the devs to strut their stuff and from that point of view...sony wins hands down!

2cents3675d ago

Why do so many of you feel so compelled to rag on the 360. Don't u guys realize your just coming across as insecure & childish. What's the big deal anyway? I know you don't wanna hear it but if you don't wanna be labeled as dumbass fanboys then maybe you should stop macin on the 360. So much hate and self justification is just sad. We just keep going round in circles on this site, the same people the same [email protected] being spouted. We have come a long way since pong. And things will only continue to get better. Does everyone forget the 360 is a whole year older than the ps3?

As a whole fanboys suck but the playstation massive on THIS site take it to another level. I really feel sorry for some of you. You just don't get it.

IdleLeeSiuLung3675d ago

Because the graphical bar isn't set doesn't mean it can't be reached. Fact is that MS doesn't have as many first party exclusives to push the boundaries means that you won't see them as often. Yet, we see games improving all the the time.

Sure, some of the games I mentioned have not been released, but based on footage it is damn clear that it is significantly improved just by even viewing some of the videos of in-game footage. Games are looking better all the time, so I don't understand where the ceiling is?

Because something isn't seen immediately doesn't mean it doesn't exist is my point. It goes both ways, but right now it seems games are still improving.

To me, the graphics is secondary to game play and community. Unless the graphics disparity is a generational leap, I really don't care so the graphics debate is already a moot point. Great games aren't defined by graphics, but by game play!

Obama3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

"So are you agreeing the footage of Alan Wake looks better then any console game to date?"

Again I would like to stress that Alan Wake DID NOT win any graphic award in E3 09, and noone is even praising its graphic in that event. It really looks nothing special graphically. Gameplay may be good, but that's another matter.

I am confused as to why you would bring up Alan Wake since it is not better looking than gears2.

beans3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

It would make no sense at all to compare picks of AW to UC2 when AW is not even finished yet. You make claims of more stuff going on at one time but just how do you know which game has more stuff going under the hood? Honestly you sound to sure of yourself and offer nothing to this debate other than the good old my opinion is right yours is wrong approach. If you believe UC2 or KZ2 type games are impossible on 360 then I guess we will have to wait and see. As for now I have nothing more to say to someone that can only see in one direction.

edit obama: because the game was far from finished. UC2 was near release and just here recently we've seen much improved Alan Wake footage.

"It really looks nothing special graphically."

Sure it doesn't lol. No point in even trying to convince you. Alan Wake looks ugly...sarcasm

"I am confused"

Yeah and I'm sure you will always stay confused.

thewhoopimen3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Beans, I probably sound like a tape reel for repeating this, but If KZ2 or UC2 could have been done on the 360, it would have been done already... a year ago. However, if you were to ask me how games look like now between 360 and ps3 games based on a screenshot, I would tell you they are very comparable. But I'm not talking about looking at the main character or the ground texture. I'm talking about the # physics interactions that you only get to see in motion, the # of light sources and shadows cast.

That being said, I am not disagreeing there is room for the 360 to grow. With most 360 developers using mainstream engines however, you see run-of-the-mill stuff. I just the hate the fact that some of the 360 fanboys are still trying to convice ppl that static 3rd party engines like the MT Framework or Unreal Engine are still competitive. They are NOT. On the otherhand I think Alan wake and halo reach's new engines are certainly headed in the right direction.

I am contending with you on the point that Alan Wake is significantly superior title to UC2, because it already isn't. I think Splinter Cell Conviction looks superior to Alan Wake. You can partially blame this on Remedies setting choice for their game. A small town in a temperate climate forest would hardly be as visually stunning as a tropical rainforest or a cityscape.

reaferfore203675d ago

So far multiplat engines are the graphical showcases for the 360. ie The Unreal Engine mainly. As soon as Rage and Crysis 2 come out they will definitely best Gears 2 in the graphical department. The real question is if they'll look better than their PS3 counterparts.

Consoldtobots3675d ago

lol
I see the butthurt disagreer brigade is out this afternoon, maybe you babies would like to counter my points. Otherwise shoooo.

Cueil3675d ago

If you don't think there is a difference then you haven't played both... anyone who can't see it is an idiot or probably needs to see the eye doctor and possibly both

SilentNegotiator3675d ago

It's not only PS3 fanboys who think so, but also people sick of sub-HD first and second party games.

Saaking3674d ago

Halo Reach and ME2 look nice, but come on.. compared to UC2 and KZ2? Not even close. Not to mention Heavy Rain, GOWIII next year.

muDD3674d ago

Both the PS3's cell and the 360's tri cores aid in the enhancement of graphix. That is just how they are setup. Your point is invalid. try not being a repeat of sony hype info, do some of your own research. You might be shocked amd realize that both consoles are more equal than what you might have imagined. You could say both consoles are maxed out... but that would not be accurate. depending on new dev tools, devs will be able to squeeze a little more juice out of both consoles, once they master multi-core technology. Multi-core tech has not been mastered yet, and to say either console is maxed out, is just plain ignorant!

CHAD ROGERS3674d ago

the xbox was tapped back when gears of bore was released.Heavenly sword for the PS3 blew it out of the water, even LAIR. The games on the xbox have actually gotten worse looking since gears of bore , while PS3 games are awe-inspired masterpeices. Uncharted 2 shows us the power of the PS3.

Immortal3213674d ago

fanboys, I don't want to ever talk to you with a mindset like this

The Lazy One3674d ago

Rage is a 3rd Party Multiplatform title and probably the best looking game ever.

There's plenty to be squeezed out of both consoles. Deal.

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Microsoft Xbox 3603675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

Yes, we can all agree that the PS3 is graphically superior than the 360. There is no denying that.

3sq3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

The funny thing is 360 exclusive are in sub-HD.

Bot: 360 isn't max out, it just couldn't do HD... LMAO

360 so last gen.

AliTheBrit193675d ago

How can a console be graphically superior? ;) its a piece of hardware

Jesus you people can't even form proper sentences in English.

avengers19783675d ago

The 360 is maxed, and nothing that microsoft or anyone is showing makes me think any differently. Crackdown 2 is crackdown one with bright shiney colors no real improvements. Mass Effect 2 claims shorter load times, but that remains to be seen, and the graphics look alomost identical to the first Mass Effect. Reach looked the same as Halo 3, and I have yet to see a Splintercell trailer or footage that was not filled with glithches. Honestly you cannot expect a standard dvd to push out much better than that, and until the 360 adds a blu-ray drive then there is nothing they can do about there shortcomings.

tawak3675d ago

AliTheBrit19 - Mr. i know everything

Trebius3674d ago

Proof is in the pudding...

Xbots are blind.

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Apocalypse Shadow3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

you will also see natal games that put less objects onscreen to make games look better because there is less to push around the screen.

what you WON'T see is the fabled "x engine" nonsense that blows the ps3 away.you WON'T see games that match ps3 like 256 gamers/games that have tons of objects onscreen that match ps3 exclusives **WITH** A.I.,lighting,long draw distances,animation,sound,etc. ..AT THE SAME TIME.you WON'T see 3D gaming at the level of ps3.not without the tools needed to do so.hardware upgrade or bust.you WON'T see sound at the level of ps3.

as long as you keep those in mind,you will see great games on 360 for its graphics capabilities and enjoy them.but don't claim equality when this is happening....

GT5:P-1080p/60fps/16 cars....**A DEMO**

forza 2-720p/60fps/8cars

forza 3-720p/60fps/8cars

see how the sequel of forza2 didn't match car for car,resolution for resolution,polygon for polygon of a **DEMO**?now pick an FPS on ps3,it doesn't matter.online player counts are many.then there's...

gears1-4vs4/gears2-5vs5 with said series being one of the best looking on the system.

any game that has more players on 360,it loses either backgrounds or graphics.the system is pretty much maxed.if it is not,how come we have to wait for it?development IS EASIER RIGHT?microsoft has BILLIONS RIGHT?

Capt CHAOS3675d ago

Am I mistaken? It would add alot of work to any graphics engine to handle crash damange.

Rock Bottom3675d ago

The "pants" crash damage was an old build which both PD and the the media who were shown the newer builds say it have improved greatly. Still, it's not like forza damage is much better than GT5's old build pants crash damage now is it?

DevastationEve3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

...but then the same could be said of PS3. how can it claim the best quality when something like THIS is happening:

*subHD MGS4

*most games being 720p without antialiasing

*most antlialiased games looking blurry because of quincunx

*most upscaled games looking blurry because of PS3's inability to scale properly

*very few actual TRUE 1080p HD games (GT isn't TRUE 1080p)

*games that lack significant features needed to be considered competitive with Xbox Live

*gimmicky motion controller failing to make gaming "next gen", and the public admitting that they'd much rather have rumble back in their controller

*asking the customer to pay for extra features they don't necessarily need to play games in HD (explain media card readers please)

*forcing the customer to believe that bluray will make gaming better. even though a game like MGS4 surely needs it it didn't help with its resolution did it?

*not shipping a "next gen HD gaming console" with HDMI cables, or even a wired headset.

*only recently getting interested in online gaming despite Xbox Live's proven success last gen, as well as PC gaming being online 4EVER.

*supporting a processor that wasn't viable for the company, thereby restricting their own progress. CellBE was not a commercial success, even though its concepts were great and will probably reappear in a future IBM project.

*having PS3 ship with a technically inferior graphics processor and poor memory resources, despite it being $200 more than its competitor (the money went in those extra features, lol)

Consoldtobots3674d ago (Edited 3674d ago )

no

what you saw in MGS4 was the first iteration of Kojimas engine for the console. As far as multiplats read my explanation on the first page. You will see games reach 1080p resolutions with ease as these engines mature and they figure out more ways to use the SPUs for rendering power.

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Hyrius3675d ago

Who cares if it's maxed out or not ?

The PS3 is more powerful and will always have better ( and better looking ) games. Period.

bjornbear3675d ago

it will also have the higher level of versatility vs. quality too =)

Oner3675d ago (Edited 3675d ago )

^^^ These are actual FACTS people. No amount of disagrees will change that. Anyone who can understand even the basics of computer technology, hardware architecture and how it relates to bandwidth (speed & power) cannot deny that...though "certain types" will no matter what.

Unending Punishment3674d ago

If you wanna talk bandwidth limits and memory constraints then PS3 really isn't going to shine up against Xbox 360 :/

I think you're right that a lot of people here don't understand the basics of computer hardware, but you're also leaving out the fact that it's just specs until someone starts messing with it. We all know that nothing changes the specs, yet they're not all-encompassing. The specs just tell you where you're at...they're not going to limit where you can go, only YOU can.

Every great painter out there was always stuck with the same canvas as the one next to him. Does that mean that there's a limit to what they can produce on that canvas?