BioWare co-founder: JRPGs suffer from 'lack of evolution'

Destructoid writes: While up at BioWare's headquarters in Edmonton, I had the opportunity to throw some questions at company co-founders Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk. I was curious about how the duo felt about the current RPG landscape in general, and why we're seeing more and more western-style RPGs while JRPGs have, at least among North American audiences, fallen somewhat to the wayside

"The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression," Zeschuk said. "They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it's still the same experience.

[Kalowest]

I love JRGPs.

[iamtehpwn]

I think that JRPG's and Western RPG's have their place in gaming, and that they can BOTH learn a lot from each other.

There a lot of things I'd like to see JRPG's I see in WRPG's, and vice versa.

Open World type experiences are fun, but linear ones are too.

[Simon_Brezhnev]

I guess turning a RPG into a slow third person shooter is innovative. I guess the lil choices your make makes your character dynamic its still linear. I guess using space marines is a real evolution. The Witcher is better the Dragon Age.

[bakasora]

Its preference. I got bored of oblivion, fallout3 and dragon age origins after 15 hours, I dunno why.

[RedSky]

I agree that JRPGs have stayed stagnant in a lot of ways, but western RPGs have regressed.

The focus has been taken away from the story and plot development to figuring out how to integrate real time combat, FPS elements into it or otherwise how to mash unnecessary extra genres into the mix. Look at Fallout 3. When you see most people playing it and using VATS every fight, what exactly is the point of the real time FPS element anyway? At the same time the game clearly suffered in the story department with the third not coming within a mile of the cleverness and depth of the first and second.

Whenever I see, lets be honest here, the mostly 13 year old console kids proclaiming Oblivion and Fallout 3 to be the best RPGs ever I can't help but wonder if it's simply because they don't have a good frame of reference to a real, far more engaging RPG or if they've simply redefined the word to mean an action game where you character has a range of weapons. The way the interview has them saying they have debates over whether GTA is an RPG only confirms this. Yet, there is no way in hell GTA4 is an RPG in any notion of the word.

The only element of RPGs that truly matters is the depth, originality and the quality of the story and the capacity to make meaningful decisions in a fictional world that affect your development and the rest of the world. In that sense looking back to the likes of Planescape, western RPGs have clearly regressed.

[Ravage27]

though I agree that JRPG genre is stagnating(DS took more steps forward than an entire decade worth of JRPGs) i would really hate to see them start copying from WRPG. Both genres should remain separate with their own distinct identities intact. JRPGs should go beyond the same emo androgynous 15 yr old male protagonist trying to save the world.

[Bigpappy]

JRPG's all try to copy Final Fantasy. These games are like Madden Football (The same thing for 20 years). The stories are different, but follow the same structure. WRPG, especially Bioware and vastly different form each other. From kungfu themes to scifi to middle age. They really do mix it up. WRPG's also give more options to play the games the way you want. They let you customize the games more than JRPG's. JRPG are more kid friendly so they control every aspect of the game, like who gets to live our die and how. With WRPG's you get to make those choices and live with the consequences like an adult would expect. I use to like JRPG's too but now my son plays those on his DS. I play the more adult and modern style games that are more complex.

[beardpapa]

Well I advise Bioware to look into Japan and tell that to the 1 million+ new FF13 owners.

[Noctis Aftermath]

There is 2 main issues JRPG suffer from:

1)The combat system of almost every JRPG has changed very little.
2)Most JRPGs don't have impressive visuals, hell if you play the ones on the DS and some on PSP they are 2D, even some on consoles are 2D.

I understand that visuals aren't the most important thing for most JRPG fans, but won't a game be much more impressive if on-top of the superb story and great combat system it had great visuals to match?

Well i doubt we will have this problem next gen, seeing how next gen handhelds will be significantly more powerful then the current gen.

[Chris399]

Just like a sports game, has well, "sporty" things. But to say that JRPGs have gotten stagnant, just makes him look like he hasn't really played enough of the genre. That, or he hasn't really explored the JRPG titles released in the past two years at all.

We have the Persona series, with it's sim and Pokemon elements. Demon's Souls with it's unrelenting, old-school charm. Valkyria Chronicles; a fresh take on SRPGs with a 3rd person perspective and sweeping story-line. Shadow Hearts with it's Circle of Judgement and quirky take on classic history (and the team's more recent take on classic JRPGs, steampunk epic Lost Odyssey). And there's Final Fantasy's melodramatic showboating with Western appeal (guns and robots abound) and a bunch of other interesting JRPGs on the horizon with varying systems and themes (Ar Tonelico's musical combat, Eye of Eternity's gun-toting RPG, Nier's apocalyptic setting). There are active battle systems (Tales series), classic battle systems, and systems somewhere in-between (FF ATB).

Quite a variety of architectures and themes if you only open your eyes.

Sure, there are always going to be "baseline" JRPGs - turn based combat, save the world, etc.. - but you really have to look for them nowadays and they are more on the handhelds than anywhere else.

And not to poop on anyone's parade, but what Bioware game since the NWN days has really evolved beyond even deeper dialog trees? Oh, wait, they've added space marines and you can have sex-scenes now. How revolutionary.

[ChrisW]

Chris399,

I like how you put it. The Persona series is about the only JRPG that has really stood out amongst the highly predictable and horribly cliche JRPGs out there. Despite the fact that they still sometimes use the 2D character pictures during dialogue. GOD I find that cheap... Yet we still find them in current gen Japan releases!

The only uber cliche JRPG that I recently tolerated was Eternal Sonata. Simply because I found the use of presumably gay heroes as a fresh twist (no pun intended!). With that in mind, let me direct you to an 'unrelated to games' article in the Asahi-shimbun (Morning Sun Newspaper) called "Some Men Prefer to be Called Boys", which is an article concerning how Japan men actually seem to be digressing in what is considered to be a sexist culture!

http://www.asahi.com/englis...

I find this directly-yet-indirectly related and relevant to why JRPGs are stagnating.

[EDIT] Meh... to the disagrees. Have you even been to Japan? No? Didn't think so!
I've been here for approx. 10 years... therefore, I do believe I have a bit of validity to back up my statements.

[Kalowest]

Its JRPGs, not JRGPs, learn how to spell dumbass.

[Marceles]

Both western and JRPGs are nice, but at the same time both of them have evolved just as much as the other. There's a few western RPGs with the same formula that's easy to pick up and play since similar games have it, and then there's some that change it up a little...same with some RPGs. I think both RPG genres are on the same boat IMO

[EvilCackle]

I switched over to the Western RPG camp in 1999, give or take. I was blown away by Baldur's Gate and really disappointed by FF8. Then came Fallout 1+2, BG2, and so on.

[Lavalamp]

I understand what Zeschuck is getting at but I believe that JRPGS have something that WRPGs lack: charm. It's the lighthearted tone and the charismatic characters that cause the fans to love the sub-genre so much and return for second helpings. That being said, I have a feeling that JRPGs will be taking some strong strides in bringing forth some new ideas to the table. The titles I believe will accomplish this feat include (but are not limited to) Resonance of Fate (End of Eternity)with its melding of stylish gun slinging combat with turn-based strategery (George Bush word for you), Ar Tonelico III with it's original art style that is centered around music(no not classical music like Eternal Sonata), and Final Fantasy XIII with it's emphasis on a very strong, engaging, and dramatic story. I guess we'll see. Either way, there will be something for every RPG lover out there next year and I'm very excited.

[lonestarmt]

yup for the most part they have charm, human, and character. I guess you have to have a pointless sex scenes and endless dialogue trees for something to be considered Mature. There is zero anything wrong with liking one over the other, but its unfair and over the line when they say one is dying or unchanging. The reason why is there hasn't been hardly any JRPGS on the PS3 and the 360. There are has been plenty of GREAT JRPGs on the other systems, but since most people live in a bubble they don't realize this. IMO Demon souls, persona, valkeryia chronicles are both leaps and bounds more innovate than anything bioware has done in many many years. My guess though bioware hasn't even heard of Persona.

[Shadow Man]

FFXIII looks like FFX, Versus looks a little different.

I love Dark!!!

[RadioactiveTouch]

I wholeheartedly agree. JRPG's haven't changed tremendously since the days of yore whereas the Western RPG is a full package nowadays. When you look at games like Fallout, Oblivion, Dragon Age and Mass Effect, you realize that Westerners know how to blend leveling up and action perfectly. In the case of the Japanese, leveling up is just as much of a chore today as it was back then. Keep working on those crazy-looking haircuts and effeminate characters Japs, that'll sell a lot better than great storylines and mature themes.

[iamtehpwn]

"In the case of the Japanese, leveling up is just as much of a chore today as it was back then. Keep working on those crazy-looking haircuts and effeminate characters Japs, that'll sell a lot better than great storylines and mature themes."

I enjoy leveling up, crazy hair cut, and Bishounen characters with great story lines. Mature themes, give or take it. I do miss when Video games were lighthearted, actually.

[Baka-akaB]

I smell PR BS and selfgratification here . Still i know my opinion wont be a popular one .

In the end Bioware still go back remaking its classics with revamped graphics with it's current non mmos games . Dragon age is by all mean baldur's gate HD (but then again baldur is amazing , thus DA is great) .

And wrpgs , even bioware's stuff arent without flaws and stagnation either .

Without even knowing it , he’s reproducing steps and dating mechanics already done since psx era jrpgs (or hentai games but that's another matter) . Only with “sex” cutscenes they dont even stand behind and alter at the last minute .

Behind the sex appeal of an easy witch of the wild , and a bisexual red head ... DA got a level of romance dialogue inferior to what’s proposed in let’s say any persona game on ps2 , or at best identical . Hell it’s even pretty much the same gift system , same break up and multiple dating system .

And since many like to pretend FF is the only existing jrpg serie , let's not act as if Final fantasy , as the culprit , didnt evolve quite a lot in gameplay .

FFX and beyond are quite some leap compared to snes ff or ff7 ... For all my dislike of it , FF8 still had it's own unique gameplay .

FFXI may not sounds unique to you , but that's probably because most of you would instead only be aware of WoW and other games , actually pillaging and salvaging many ideas from it (and other mmos)

And dont dare telling that FFXII didnt try altering in a major way it's gameplay , giving some examples to follow to ffxiii .

But please show me the significant gameplay altering changes between the baldur's gate serie and Dragon age besides the 3d engine (again as enjoyable as it might be)?

How is oblivion a change from Morrowind when it's just bigger and according to many morrowind fans , even less rich and interesting ?

Such ego trip from that bioware guy , and all around hypocrisy baffles me .

WRPGs arent currently more innovative and pushing some envelop . They are just the obvious trend right now , and more popular because of Up to date graphics .

The most innovative rpg this year was neither a wrpg or a jrpg , but a crafty blend of both genre , though of japanese origin : Demon's souls

[lonestarmt]

couldn't have said it better myself baka. Plus when Japan does do something out there and different it gets rejected and conveniently forgotten.

[Azurite]

Very well put.

In retrospective JRPGs have evolved more than WRPGs, imho.
Most WRGPs are pretty much Multi User Dungeon games with graphics.

[Xi]

It'd be interesting to see a mash-up of the two genres.

Like if mistwalker and Bioware created an rpg together. I wonder what it'd be like.

[cmrbe]

Try topping VC before you speak.

What evolution?. To be more like a shooter?. Stupid.

[RememberThe357]

He really has the right to talk. BioWare is at the forefront of WRPG production. And what he says is right. JRPGs in general are not really evolving. They are making games that are basically the same that they were 10 years ago.

No one is saying that games like VC or FF13 or whatever are bad games, just that the genre hasn't evolved much over the years. If you don't want it to evolve that's fine, but there is no reason so seem all defensive about it. If JRPGs are exactly the way you want them then your completely justified is disagreeing with him.

[Baka-akaB]

neither has bioware's or bethesda's stuff really . Newer graphical engines are that , new graphics , not some gameplay innovation .

i'll concede their stuff is awesomely well done and polished , but innovative ? Not since they had the ideas with baldur and kotor , from bioware's end .

honestly we would be discussing the stagnation of WRPG here instead if most major jrpg were released with truly next gen graphics .

[lonestarmt]

no JRPG's have evolved and as much as WRPGs. The main difference is JRPG's are slower paced and more turn based, which most westerners can't stand for whatever reasons. As long as their is turn based there will always be haters on JRPGs. Look at PC games. There are 100 clones of diablo and Baulder's Gate. IMO Valkeryia Chronicles is the most unique RPG out there in several years and more so than fallout, dragon age, or Mass effect. Also look at knights of knightmare on the DS, prob the most unique RPG in over a decade.

[RememberThe357]

I have to admit that even Dragon Age was not a huge just forward in terms of innovation.

It seems, now that you brought that up that he is suffering only to Mass Effect 2. BioWare does some really cool things with getting the player involved in the story. They allow the play to dictate--to a point--how the game will play out. But they have been doing that for a while. With Mass Effect 2, it seems like they are doing some really cool thing in expanding how that play interacts with the game. That maybe were his frame of reference is.

I would personally love to see how a Japanese developer would handle doing a game with Mass Effect type dialog.

[cmrbe]

I respect your opinion alot however i don't like this evolution that i am seeing in RPG's. Games like Fallout 3 for example is nothing compare to Fallout 2. Nowdays games are evolving top suit kids with ADD.

[Pyrrhus]

I like both JRPGs and WRPGs anyways, jsut i started initially on JRPGs.
Plus i prefer the old style jrpgs anyways.

[3sq]

Ah shut the hell up Bioware like you have any of this so call "evolution thing" yourself. There's a reason why it's called JRPG.

[Danja]

JRPG's have evolved by why fix what isnt broken... the story , the characters , the battle system the accessibility of them is what sets them apart from WRPG's

look at FF7 and look at FF12 the series did evolve but it also kept what was liked most about JRPG's and I dont mind...

give me a good story , with charismatic characters and awesome battle system im good

[ApocalypseShadow]

but i'm old school when it comes to gaming.

i'd rather play a turn based game like phantasy star 4 or skies of arcadia to any rpg released today.

i don't need active battles,real time battles or "dial a combo" battles whatsoever.give me turn based and i'm good.just make a great story to go along with it.

[lonestarmt]

tell me about it. Fallout is a good story, but really a bad FPS, just with a cool system to stop time and aim at body parts. Almost all WRPG's now are just clones of lord of the rings or dungeon's & dragons. All besides Mass effect are like FF12 where you control one character press one button a watch them hack and slash each other.

[No FanS Land]

WRPG's...

yeah their biggest evolution is being an hybrid First person shooter/RPG
come back when you top the final fantasy evolution ,startig From FFIV I think, NO FF has ever seen the same evolution/battle or class system, of course there are similarities, but you can't always reinveint the wheel.

[likedamaster]

They're right, they haven't evolved. The same can be said about Japan in general, just look at their other games. One example is Metal Gear Solid. You'd think they would lessen the amount of cutscenes and innovate in the gameplay department but no, we get the same BS just in a high def format(a la MGS4) with some multiplayer thrown in.

[Baka-akaB]

again pure BS , you guys always generalise once you see a flaw . And in such case when you guys generalize jrpg , you always or often see only Final Fantasy or throw vague-ish "facts".

Sadly even with one franchise counted as a valid discussion subject , you are insanely out of luck ...

Why ? Because each ff is not only different each time , but over the years it's gameplay has known several important mutations .

hell even if you wanted to believe that FF 1-9 are the same (wich would be a huge fail and ludicrous) there is still the problem of FFX-XIII to be adressed .
Basically a whole new type of gameplay for the serie .

So basically the problem is that even the jrpg's flagship is constantly morphing .. so try pretending the genre doesnt , or does less than it's western counterpart .

Just because the rare few wrpg currently released by the same two companies sells doesnt mean it's more innovative , or innovative at all . It just means that it's popular and sells .
Like some jrpg franchises

[theunknown]

"You'd think they would lessen the amount of cutscenes"
THen it would become less of a emulation of a movie which MGS started, this kind of ruining the identity of MGSolid?

"innovate in the gameplay department but no, we get the same BS just in a high def format(a la MGS4)"How many gaming series can you recall that radically revolve with each main entry?

[Why Dat]

Come on... really!?? What's with the UNNECESSARY mud-slinging?

Are gamers not allowed to enjoy Western AND Eastern Rpgs? What is with this sudden crazy for "evolution"?

[hyderide]

Japan vs World

[DigitalAnalog]

Oh wait, he did.....

[blue7xx7]

Did you even read the article?? If you did then you would have noticed that Bioware said JRPG's are the same but there are a few exceptions like Demon Soul's and its one of his favorite games currently.

[DigitalAnalog]

You're questioning me about reading the article but did not bother to read a simple message.

"Oh wait, he did". <------------------------- see that??

-End statement

[SilverSlug]

when all their games are always half built when they come out.

[lonestarmt]

This debate is silly. All of it is BS. Both change, both have tons of games similar. Anime or J-fans find Wrpgs to gray, boring, short, and lacking in character development. Westerners or MMO finds Jrpgs too silly or "Cartoony", slow, and care more about telling a story and less about you actually playing. There is no right or wrong.

In my eyes I rather have 100 games like FF than 5 like world of warcraft, dragon age, or fallout.

[Bodyboarder_VGamer]

Valkyria Chronicles!

[Godmars290]

For someone who's using sex and VA star power to sell their next game, I wouldn't be mouthing off about a whole sub-genera if I were you bub...

Especially when your entry into WRPGs looks like it belongs in the shooter genera.

[bladegunner]

I'm fairly sure that almost every JRPG contains young girls in almost zero clothing. So you should never infer that the sex in Mass Effect 2 or 1 is some how of a major selling point. At least the naked people in the Mass Effect series are adults.

[Godmars290]

And you're making the same, asinine, generalization the Bio-ware guy is making.

Sure you can point to "some" JRPGs that have underaged cheesecake shots - and worse - in them, you just best not have games in your own library that features flat out sex. And you need to be less idiotic when the actual examples you're pointing to not only aren't as heavy on cheap sale factor, but are better recognized, better selling, by the general market.

Of which the US is only a part, and not the whole bladegunner...

[Baka-akaB]

@blade
Then you'd be obviously wrong .

I could easily quote you names of jrpg without a shred of nudity and sex innuendo ..

Could you ever point me to a bioware romance dialogue that doesnt smell like porn cheese ?

"Hey tis so coooold in my tent!!"

choice 1 : hey babe maybe i should warm you up then!!"
2 : wtf do you want be to do ?

choice 3 , only a waste of time bringing you back to either 1 or 2 :
"are you sure it's a good idea ?" followed by choice 1 or 2 .

I'm sorry but again ps2 jrpg do better in that area . hell even hentai games on pc .

[Midgard228]

demon souls, star ocean , valkyria chronicles, vesperia arent the same like other rpgs, u know wat i dont like bout western rpgs? BORING gameplay, stiff ugly, boring gameplay, with exception of fallout and oblivion, its just so dull. and who ever says mass effect, old republic and dragon age arent the same game than ya liars.

funny because bioware makes these games and they r ones im complaining about.

baldurs, while fun is exactly the same as part 2, champions, marvel alliance etc.

and fable, its the only different one i think, besides fallout and oblivion, but for a game boasting consequence as a main attraction, i dont feel the consequence when i smack/stab and murder someone in the village and all they do is put an angry smiley over their head with -4. they dont even fight back.

so bullcrap jrpgs dont change. neither do western rpgs, and while the mediocre jrpgs do copy paste, the extremelly good ones r liked because they dont follow the same pattern, obviously their are bad and good on both sides, just alot more jrpgs last gen, way more than western rpgs.

if ur telling me end of eternity is the same as valkyria chronicles, FF13, or demon souls then u r on crack

[Whitefox789]

I very much agree with your observation as well, not to mention the reason for no evolution in both Western and Japanese rpgs is because once they find that revolutionary formula that works they usually copy it because their afraid of change I mean have you seen all of the Diablo 2 clones?

[Whitefox789]

Bioware you are also guilty of this as well my long lost friend

http://gza.gameriot.com/con...

so many cliches my friend

[Midgard228]

its so true, atleast it was easy to prove lol.

the japanese cliches r funny, tho they arent done in all games, now bioware makes their own cliche and reuses it every single game lol

[Whitefox789]

Agreed as you can also observe from the chart the only game that is somewhat out of their cliche is Neverwinter Nights (One of my favorite RPG's btw) and look what they did with the franchise they handed it over to Obsidian Studios which is a little hit and miss.

I was also very ticked off when I played Dragon Age Origins caused they said this was suppose to be the successor to Baldurs Gate when I first hit new game I saw 3 races and 3 classes that just made me say WTF you had so many options for the older games like Baldurs Gate and NWN it was insane!

[sashimi]

le sigh, Can't we all just get along? /shame on BioWare

[PLAYSTATIONGENRATION]

Suffer from a lack of story and usually a underline FPS

[devilhunterx]

And in wRPG it is all click click click. Where is the evolution in that?

[George Sears]

I feel like RPG's in general lack evolution. They feel so stagnant this gen that I lost the appeal that I use to have. I'm right now replaying Vagrant Story and SMT Nocturne, the golden ages of this genre...

[Whitefox789]

Wish I could find those games :D

[catch]

If Bioware's games are the "evolved" RPGs then I hope JRPGs never evolve

[cjg23]

the materia system =(

[Godmars290]

Is this guy opening his mouth because FFXIII just did 1m in a day on one platform? That he want ME to be seen as either the Western FF, or better yet, the full successor to the FF franchise?

If that's the case what numbers has ME done? No way the games as well regraded as any FF title.

[S4NDM4N]

I whole heartedly agree.

Japanese games in general have been slowing down. Hell, Hideo Kojima talks about it.

The Western market just suddenly exploded to be honest. In everything...

There are very few JRPGs that push the genre forward. Valkyria Chronicles, Persona 3........

Demon's Souls is a spiritual successor to King's Field and they pretty much play identically.

The reason why WRPGs have moved forward so much is that they were able to branch WPRGs with other genres and mix them up, while keeping deep RPG elements. That is the biggest problem with JRPGs. Valkyria Chronicles did a phenomenal job.

I do agree that certain JRPGs have charm, but some parts just make me wince.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[S4NDM4N]

Another example is the MMO market.

Look at how far Western MMOs have gone.

You have Fallen Earth, EVE Online, Age of Conan's combat system, and WoW.

Where as in the Japanese MMO market, most games are just grindfests like lineage and they all pretty much look the same.

[JeepGamer]

Dragon Age is a good game and all, but surely the creators of it are not preaching to others about 'lack of evolution'? Humans, Elves, Dwarves? Dark mysterious ancient evil involving higher powers?

Tree people?

One of your companions is secretly heir to the throne?

Did they start working on this after Return of the King or was it the Two Towers that did it for them?

This is putting aside the fact that no matter how hard you try to make it otherwise the 'create your own character' bit is always going to leave the lead character somewhat detached from the story.

[The_Nameless_One]

He was referring to the way the games are played and how you weave the plot and characters into the game, not the source materials. I think the point he was trying to make completely missed you.

[JeepGamer]

Just because he wants to overlook the areas in which his game hasn't evolved while preaching to others about the ways in which their games haven't evolved doesn't mean we have to overlook them too.

[kraze07]

You turn a few comments from 1 guy into a war between wrpgs and jrpgs. The way I see it is you're no different from racists or religious fanatics who deal in absolutes. Is it really that hard to enjoy more than 1 type of game?

[JeepGamer]

I was literally playing Dragon Age ten minutes ago, and I'm considering cranking up the PS3 to play an older PS2 JRPG.

[Enigma_2099]

Answer me one question... is this your first time on this site?

[kraze07]

Nope. Instead of asking you should've just clicked on my username and took a look a my profile.

[Enigma_2099]

... are you familiar with "sarcasm?"

[kraze07]

Is there a purpose to your pointless questions?

[Enigma_2099]

Do you realize that sometimes sarcasm can be intended to be humorous?

[The_Nameless_One]

Sad but true. JRPG, and Japanese developers in general, have this tendency of sticking to their guns and not trying something out of their known box. I think it has more to do with cultural differences and a different way of thinking then just being lazy and stubborn. If you look at the progression of WRPG vs JRPG you will clearly see that the former had evolved much since it came to be while the latter pretty much stayed the same with a few tweaks. Games like Demon's Souls probably signifies more then anyone think. It was made by a Japanese developer and look at the success it has in the western market.

[Godmars290]

Is that JP devs - devs in general - are taking heat for a quick move a console maker, specifically MS, made by putting out the 360 when they did. Of compounding the mistake of rushing it out with wanting to dominate the JRPG genera, one that they literally ignored on the 1st Xbox. With the result being a number of titles that had no choice but follow the already well established PS2 mold.

We have Western intentions to blame for this rush into HD gaming and higher production costs, and all they can really do is point fingers at anyone who has yet to catch up.

And meanwhile they're still making games with crappy graphics!

[Perkel]

said company that didn't change formula since 97' ...

[KingItachi]

I agree with you Baka, I love the junction system in 8 and Xenogears is my fav RPG.

[oricon]

One thing that sets apart jrpgs and wrpgs are the worlds that you explore most of the worlds look the same in wrpgs, most of the games world are usually dark and dull, i rather just explore worlds that are at atleast colorful not dark and depressing.

[rakunado]

Most JRPG's are "turn based" apart from said few like the tales series, personas, secret of mana's, kings field lot(aka demon souls) and a few others.

Honestly, the way i see it, there is only so much "turn based" systems can evolve. However to say JRPG's are not evolving is a comment in poor poor form. I'm sure if Zeschuck was given a template of a game that was to be built around a turn based mechanic he wouldn't be able to "evolve" the genre much either.

When people often say JRPG, they are already making a stereotypical viewpoint that attributes to certain generalizations made up by the genre. Hence games like Demon Souls actually... do not count. And it's these generalizations that attract or repulse gamers.

The main core of the JRPG is story first and foremost. However, it is not story as in how the Western gamer would perceive either. Western gamers predominantly like their stories to be in control, because their notion of "game" means being "involved". Japanese/Eastern gamers prefer their stories being controlled for them, like they are watching a movie. It pretty much is similar comparisons in the way business is run by both societies, the aspect of collectivism and individualism. Japanese like to be part of the idea and experience. Western gamers making their own choices.

Japanese/Eastern cultures in general tend to take the JRPG more like an expanded form of a digital novel. Much like how Manga in Japan is to Novels in the West.

The point being is, JRPG's are not going to evolve much because the goal and purpose of it are entirely different from the concept of the west. Hence it comes down to the gamers preference.

To tell Japanese developers to evolve is no different in telling them to change the way they should think or live. Variety doesn't hurt anyone. Of course we can't stop globalization and narrow mindedness, and debates like this will still crop up from years to come.

The moment JRPG's do break from this system, it is technically not a JRPG anymore. It becomes something like Demon Souls, and though Demon Souls is made in Japan, you will find it purely out of context in the JRPG argument.

Sure if Japanese developers want to make it successful in the west, they would need to change their style. But you won't see it changing anytime soon, hence the many ds and psp games out in Japan.

But to say they have not evolved is absurd. The monumental changes from FF10-FF12 were considerable based solely on the turn based system. Zeschuck is just flaunting his luck on combining the FPS concept with the RPG concept to make a whole new experience on top of an already out dated KOTOR(Knights of the Old Republic) formula, oh and also add the sex in for good measure.

JRPG's are different. No point asking for it to change. If you don't like it don't play it. Simple.

What many people don't understand is the moment you break this concept you will have something different, hence it won't be called a JRPG anymore.

[ktchong]

Exactly. That's why I do NOT play JRPG.

I was interested in Final Fantasy XIII, but as soon as I see it uses the outdated phase-based combat, I decided I ain't it's not getting my money.

BioWare founders were correct in their assertions that JRPG suffers from the lack of evolution and progression. But most N4G are too much of JRPG (and Sony) fanboy to face the truth.

[Baka-akaB]

@rakunado

i wholeheartly agree .
Just a detail , Persona is turn based .

@The Round Peg

Might be the other way around that you are so against a genre you said yourself you dont play , that you refuse to see how it actually has always evolved .

Just not into yet something you'd enjoy .

[rakunado]

Baka you are right! Persona is turn based... my bad! ~_~

I have no idea for the life of me why i said that it wasn't... gaaaah!

I also totally agree with all of your previous posts! Lol'd at the porn cheese one.

[the_union_of_PS360]

devilhinter shut up you probably masturbate to jrpg games with girls btch tit