Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray?

Apparently the PS3 Cell processor is so big and complicated, they're having a hard time making enough to satisfy the demand. An IBM Semiconductor VP says they're "lucky to get 10 or 20 percent" out of a chip like the Cell. The other 80-90 percent aren't fit to be used in PS3s, meaning they either get used in another application or thrown away if they can't be.

[achira]

boring posting, you should do other things. we know you hate sony, so stop this bs.

[DG]

Cough Cough...Bull$#!T.

Let the flaming begin.

.

[Slicer626]

i so agree with you, the playstation 3 is so close to being in the shops i can almost smell the Bull$#!T from xbox 360 owners the bottom line is there $#!T scared that they have wasted there money on a xbox 360 so there trying to tell us that the ps3 has loads of problems to make themselfs feel better

[sparco]

How can you say this is bs??!! It's right there in front of you. Why can't you just get out of your fu**in sony arses and realise the truth. Im not trying to say leave Sony, come to Microsoft, I'm just saying simply realise that Sony are digging themselves into one huge hole! I own a 360 and will definately be getting a Wii, im considering getting a ps3, but from news liek this + the cost of the ps3, im starting to have second thoughts. So i might just stick to MS and Nintendo for now. Please Sony fanboys, just realise what sony are actually doing here. As brilliant as they are, they are taking a HUGE risk.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

what is with the photo? it looks like the PS3 is crushing him?

and if this is all accurate, then sony is really, REALLY screwed.

[Droidbro]

Dont listen to those f4gs. Can sony ever dig its self out of that big ps3 shaped coffin its now in. Im gonna have to stick w/ my 360, although that piece of crap gave me the red ring of death the other day and now i have to send it in for repairs. At $130 for repairs the total price for the console still falls below that of a ps3. not to mention it kicks ass (when its working atleast. for now its just an expensive paperwieght) because live is finally getting some new stuff to download after weeks of nothing. Cant wait to get it back home!!1

[AuburnTiger]

how did you have the 360 before the red ring thing happened? Did you get it in Nov when it first came out?

[Droidbro]

i bought it on launch day. pretty much its been sitting on my dvr on the carpet since i bought it with the power brick tucked away behind the tv with all my other cables. i know i could have taken better care of it but the point is if someone buys a $400 video game console, it should be able sit in front of the tv and be fine for at least 5-6 years just like any other piece of home entertainment equipment. not just less than 8 months. thats bull crap!

[AuburnTiger]

If you don't mind me asking, what did the repair center say might be problem?

[Liverpool4ever]

huh?

[HyperBear]

I thought just them announcing the price at $659 and delaying it from Spring to Nov. 17 was bad, over the past month, all Ive heard about it is bad news. Production of cells is poor, blu-ray diodes are runnning out, it may be delayed longer, new hardware maybe put into it. LIKE C"MON ON SONY, didnt you guys ever think this through before you started deciding on what hardware is going into the PS3. I say, scrap the Blu-Ray, video games dont even need that much storage, and im not sure video games are looking forward to blu-lasers scracthing up discs. And maybe scrap a few SPE's, instead of 7, go down to like 4 SPE's (3 for the heavy lifting, 1 for the system), that way there the cell processors will all be fully functional, instead of having like 1 out of every 4 made fully functional. Oh, and maybe start to actually test the systems out, cause it would be kind of stupid going into TGS or launch, without testing your systems, turn them on, and they dont work, or either work for a few seconds, and then the cell burns out automatically. SONY, im fine with the price n all cause yea, after seeing all the stuff going into the PS3, it is like buying a pc's worth of hardware, but if you dont start cleaning up the bad and bringing the good, not only will you fail, but no one would want something that could break down with them in like an hour. Youve got a lot of thinking to do now Sony, but heres a hint, put all the blu-ray and 7xSPE's and Cell processor and all that stuff in the box, try it out, and if it doesnt work, then you know all those years of thinking, well not that much thinking, are worthless and a failure because you didnt really discuss the possible outcomes of hardware not functioning properly, and that can be the death of you. For now, Im still buying one thats if, the system launches on exactly Nov. 17 and that they have tested it out and it works to the fulliest of its capabilities. (srry for the long post) lol

[Dick Jones]

what is that a PS3 or a frige?

[Marty8370]

Cell are all fully functional just not with PS3,as PS3 needs 7SPE's working and one for redundecy(this improves yeilds),IBM Cell Blades require 8SPE's working hence why they getting poor yeilds.Other products can use the Cell with 2-6 working SPE's(so basically no chips get thrown away,also it will bring the cost down)

[Krimson]

A full Cell processor has only 10-20% yields, but this was known going into the endeavor so it's not exactly "news".

This is why the PS3 only uses 7 of the 8 SPE's. If one SPE fails the chip can still past tests for the PS3. This increases yields to ~40%.

[specialguest]

this whole issue is not much of a concern to me because i don't plan on buying the PS3 until around 2 yrs into its cycle. by that time, hopefully all of the bugs and what not will be fixed. until then, it'll be the occasional PC games for me.

[Nodoze]

With all the news lately, it has become quite apparent that Sony is going to have a helluva time getting this console completed, and packaged. I would venture to say that they may get a million or so finished in time for the 'worldwide' launch date. This of course means that you will be lucky to see one anytime in 2006. Even if you were able to secure one, would you want an untested, untried, unproven combiantion of beta components? When a company is forced to ramp production, and has such low yields, it gives rise to the possibility that faulty components will be placed into the console.

If you all thought the MS launch was a fiasco, it appears that Sony is going to make it look fantastic by comparison.

These are dark days for Sony fans...and at present no light is appearing at the end of the tunnel!

[NJ1307RS]

Lets see who put this article up, TheMart, and its under the rumor section...Hm...Its obviously a lie.

[TheMART]

Nope these are facts, IBM have stated this themselves.

I know it's painfull, but it's news

Oh let's see who reacts, it's NJ... mmmhhh the article has links... mhhhh IBM have stated it themselve... mmhhhh NJ says he earns 85.000 dollar a month mmhhh.... NJ had 25 fake accounts mmhhh.... who would be lying here mmnmhhh....

[NJ1307RS]

Then why is it under the rumors section.

[TheMART]

It's not my site, but there are links to back it up. So go read them unless you always trying to blabla around

[NJ1307RS]

I just don't buy into rumors, sorry.

[TheMART]

As you are too lazy to read and use links, here is your proof:

"An IBM Semiconductor VP says they're "lucky to get 10 or 20 percent" out of a chip like the Cell. The other 80-90 percent aren't fit to be used in PS3s, meaning they either get used in another application or thrown away if they can't be."

[NJ1307RS]

Look, I work very close to the gaming industry and the industry claims 40-50% yields for the Cell Chip. That is no rumor but this is.

[ironwolf]

If you ever bothered to read more than one article on the site, you would have seen this reported days ago. Oh, is your industry source as high up as Tom Reeves? Some one as well informed as you must know him, right? Hes only IBM's VP of Semiconductor and Technology Services, ypu know, the part of the company that produces the chips. Heres the link to the story that was here earlier this week.

http://www.reed-electronics...

[pRo loGic II]

I sense a PS2 repeat or worse.

[NJ1307RS]

A PS2 repeat would mean this:

PS3: 103,000,000
360: 24,000,000
Wii: 19,000,000

Sounds good to me ;)

[TheMART]

Or maybe you are talking NJ's lying facts. As he is making 85.000 dollars a month. Man I think you get 8,50 dollar pocketmoney a week from mum and dad. The only thing we know is:

360 sold 5 million
PS3 sold ZERO
Wii sold ZERO

Japan wants Wii, 90% of readers most important gamers magazine says PS is too expensive to buy and get a Wii instead. End of story for now, we'll see again @ Christmas.

When the most awarded game of this E3 will be out

Gears of War

It'll sell multiple 360 systems

[NJ1307RS]

I make $86,500 a month Period. Secondly comparing the 360 against 2 game systems that haven't come out is like saying Halo 2 sold better than Halo 3. PS3 will kill off the 360 like if it were the dreamcast.

End of Story.

[TheMART]

Man we don't care PERIOD

[NJ1307RS]

Cool then, get of this site if you don't care about games.

[Droidbro]

if you make 85 grand a month, almost twice what i make a year, shouldn't you be working instead of arguing over video games?

[Fat Onion]

Are you making it through a network marketing company?

[BoneMagnus]

And that position is to take a wait-and-see approach. I'm not speculating anything. Bottom line, I don't NEED a PS3(or any system) at launch. I will wait until I am confident about the system, software support and the console's future.

I hope Sony works it out, and I believe they will do all in their power to do so. The wild card is the public, and no one can predict how that will go.

[pRo loGic II]

NJ1307RS: can...

[NJ1307RS]

What?.

[pRo loGic II]

It does?..

[NJ1307RS]

Read disc error on the PS3 how about NO. Sorry but Sony is trying tough to get everything right this time and they will.

[pRo loGic II]

Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray? / Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray? / Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray? / Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray? / Poor production to plague the PS3/Bluray? Lets stay on topic, The PS3 will be a Rush job for-real and not like the lie about the 360, but a real rush job, better get that $60 warrenty.

[shoota33]

360 was the real rush job.MS is so scared of sony they wanted to rush there console out so they could get a head start. which wont mean nothing because ps3 will outsell xbox 1.5 badly.

[TheMART]

I think it's a better idea to get a system that just works. Like the 360. Also with a Live system that has proven itself. Instead of a machine that has so much problems and one doesn't know what he will get on online gaming.

Really, the risc is too high for that amount of money and I expect many PS fans to switch when they can get Gears of War and Forza 2 instead of Killzone CGI or GT4 HD aka a PS2 game. For real I mean this

[Droidbro]

i just got the red ring of death, not to i will buy a ps3 and throw my 360 away. the 360 is actually worth getting repaired the ps3 isnt worth buying in the first place

[shoota33]

Would you stop priasing that over hype Gears of war.NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR STUPID XBOT SHOOTERS HERE.YOU ARE NOT CONVINCEING ANYONE TO BUY YOUR PIECE OF CRAP CONSOLE.

[ghostface]

I seem notice that every time there is something negative about the PS3 everyone seem to have something to say. whats the deal with that. It like THE MART looks for something negative to dig up about the PS3. Give it a rest already.

[shoota33]

Thats what he does. He sits aroung all day looking for anything negative on ps3 an then post it.He is what you call a loser.

[The Real Deal]

I told yall weeks ago that Sony was in trouble. I saw it coming. Its common sense really. You don't...I repeat...You don't experiment with processors and new formats to make a gaming system. You can improve on existing hardware...example...3 cores instead of 1 core. Example....state of the art graphics board with embedded ram from the LEADING video card maker in the business, ATI. And improve upon existing standard formats with improved software tools to help developers. Thats the smart way of doing things to keep costs down and bring more value to customers. I didn't learn that from my 4 years of college. I learned it from common sense business 101. I loved the original playstation. I think it was the best of its gen of consoles by far. I started to be let down with the ps2 and all the empty promises. And just from what I have read and know about the ps3, they are doing things all wrong. Blu ray...NOOOOO Cell processor...NOOOOO. Why? Why experiment with unproven hardware and make us have to pay 600 dollars as your test subjects? Not good business. IBM aready has admitted that they are getting low yields with the cell. And blu ray keeps getting pushed back for the same reasons. I don't want Sony to fail. I just wish they would have been a little smarter this time around. Everyone ...sony fans... think that what sony is doing is revolutionary....why?....becau se sony said so. Well for them attempting to be so cutting edge and new...its costed them millions and it will cost consumers 100's of dollars and it will cost developers millions...and consumers pay in the end with an unstable unproven gaming machine that is subject to have problems with a first gen blu ray player and the first of the new cell processors to the market. I'm unbiased....I'm just not confident in Sony's approach this time around. I have the right to question their choices right? I mean developers have been, and Tech news have been. My father works for IBM and has for over 20 years. There are problems in Sony's camp. And its all directly from their choices.

[achira]

no problems, rumours spread by ppl like you. the ps3 launches on 17. november, everything else is speculation and unnecessary.

[jedicurt]

so why didn't they just say the name of the VP then. It's not like their or a group of the. All of the rest at the center do not carry the title of VP.
Lisa Su - vice president of the IBM semiconductor research and development center

so either she said it, inwhich case, i'm sure she will get into trouble for her statement. or someone is just making a claim that is unfounded and they just decided to pick a title to say that person said it.

if they would of said one of the Semiconductor production managers, then we would have something to argue about

[ironwolf]

Tom Reeves, VP of semiconductor and technology services at IBM. The guy in charge of chip manufacturing.

http://www.reed-electronics...

[pRo loGic II]

gametime: Would the 360 still be a rush job if Sony launched on time?, or is Sony rushing to keep up and never was going to launch in Japan this last spring. 19.1 what kind of loser sits around all day and night 24/7 making sure nobodies saying anything bad about a game console, and personally attacks people because of their opinions.

[The Real Deal]

Sony is basically trying to be too innovative for their own good. They are trying to leap too far ahead but at a cost to development, consumers, and manufacturing. Its just too much at the wrong time. I saw that back in 2005 when they announced the initial specs. They are trying to over due it. And they have said themselves you are paying for potential. Most consumers when they pay that kind of money. They want NOW. Not LATER. Thats real. All developers have said it will be 3 or 4 years before developers can tap into the power of the ps3. So my question is why buy it now for 600? Wouldn't it be smart and a better value to wait till the devlopers take advantage of the power and they work out the bugs in the system and the price drops? Wouldn't that be smarter as a potential buyer?

[The Real Deal]

Thats what I'm saying. If sony would have launched on time no one would say that the 360 was a rush job. The facts are Microsoft went with proven hardware so higher yields and easier developement for games. Sony went with new unproven hardware which of course would have lower yields and harder developement for games and delays. Thats common sense. Don't be mad because Microsoft took the smart route to gaming progression. Instead of leaping into an area thats uncharted water. Dangerous indeed.

[NJ1307RS]

Dangerous but very rewarding if done correctly, so its worth the risk. Its good to see some companies are innovative.

[jedicurt]

the original source of this article keeps refering to the fact that it was one of the Semiconductor VP's. There is only one VP over Semiconductor Reseach and Development. That is Lisa Su.

i wish they would quite refering to her as a group of people and back up their fabrications before passing them off as news

I'm not saying that production numbers are were they ought to be, and i'm not saying that everything is going to be fine for the PS3, all i am saying is that you can't make up a person to attempt to prove a point.

the Fact is this article is atleast partially fabricated, and so there is no way to prove what parts of it are true

[jedicurt]

my apologies, i had forgotten that full production was moved away from the IBM semiconductor research and development center.

and were moved under Tom Reeves who assumed production management of semiconductors late last year

he is the VP in question, being labeled as VP of Semiconductor and Technology Services.

My apologies for this oversite on my part, but my point still remains

[TheMART]

So NJ how did it feel to spam Noxel about saying something completely normal?

[TheMART]

So NJ are you reporting with the NJ account or one of your 25 other ones? I'll keep asking you and I know you don't want anyone else to read it. You like to silent the things you don't like don't ya.

Mods will soon ban your IP

[NJ1307RS]

I only have one account NJ1307RS.

[TheMART]

Can you explain then again that your NJ1307 account got hacked and someone else used it? That's what you said before

[Droidbro]

your job is to make 85 grand a month. what do you do again???

[Noxel]

The PS3 has got nothing on the 360. I'll be suprised if it even turns on. LOL

[Marriot VP]

it's funny how all PS3 future buyers will consider rumors to be false when their negative against the PS3.

I'm not saying this is true or false, it's a rumor. But IBM has made official reports about their being many problems with the cell being 70% efficient and what not, that's fact.

[pRo loGic II]

Another delay and those of us that have an 360 will really hear it from Sony fans and how 360 was a rush job. The leader ship of Sony is a mess, MS knows something we don't, thats why they keep pointing it out...

[ironwolf]

instead of picking one thread a day to scream a couple of hundred insults on, you would have seen this news on this site days ago. including the full interview with the IBM exec.

http://www.reed-electronics...

[zonetrooper5]

quote "Would you stop priasing that over hype Gears of war.NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR STUPID XBOT SHOOTERS HERE.YOU ARE NOT CONVINCEING ANYONE TO BUY YOUR PIECE OF CRAP CONSOLE." end quote

ok here are the xbox 360 games:
Fight night round 3
halo 3
gears of war
ghost recon advanced warfighter
pro evolution soccer 6
F.E.A.R 360
Half life 2
counter strike source
day of defeat source
table tennis
oblivion elder scrolls IV
dead rising
call of duty 3

etc etc there are more games to come, and stop saying the xbox 360 will end up like dreamcast. get real, MS has lots more money than sony. i am waiting for the nintendo Wii which will sit next to my xbox 360 and then i will wait a year or 2 for the PS3 to sit next to my xbox 360, nintendo Wii. CAN'T WAIT, NEXT GEN GAMING, RULES!!!!!!!!!!!!11111

[TheMART]

AT THIS MOMENT ON MARKETPLACE:

HALO 3: IN THE BEGINNING MAKING OF THE E3 TRAILER

I am now downloading it and can't wait to view it... damn

[TheMART]

Playing it NOW damn... I see a city in the background of the large hole in Africa, man I'm curious which city would that be?

See those ingame and inengine footage damn I want it, I want Gears first and then this it's amazing. Everyone with a 360 go and download it now!

[Noxel]

So how are you PS3 fanboys doing? I can't wait for the CrapStation to fail. Sony tries to market the PS3 as a console when we all know its just an expensive Blu-Ray player.

[BOOSTIN]

sony is in HUGE financial trouble. no money= bad console, weak online service. and if anything goes wrong with your 600$ machine you are probably SOL without a warranty. at least M$ has the cash to back their consoles.

[TheMART]

"You need some serious help with your extreme xbox fanboyism.sony will dominate the gameing market once again and there is nothing you can do about it period!! deal with it!! "

says the biggest fanboy in history. That's plain funny

[shoota33]

Ms money is not going to help them.poeple want ps3.If they wanted an xbox 1.5 they would not be pyramids of em in every store.BTW i thought sony net worth was more than MS.I think bill gates has the money MS doesnt.

[ironwolf]

Gates is a minority stock holder. The largest minority stockholder, but minority none the less.

[pRo loGic II]

What happend to post 34? it was fine. This is a prime example of Sony tactics.

[TheMART]

Yeah it's gametime/NJ Sony guys that just only want their voice to be heard. Anything they don't like and it's poef report!

[pRo loGic II]

You got to be a 350 pound troll that masterbates to those cartoon girls in all thoses PS games.

[SDS Overfiend]

So that what fanboys do on this site spam people comments. Sony's Gonna rock.

[The Real Deal]

If and its a big possible "IF"...Sony fails with blu ray and the ps3...Gametime, NJ, and the rest of the exreme blinded by faith fanboys will disappear from this site and it will be good again. They won't be able to say anything except..."the ps2 sold 105 million consoles last gen."...lol...Thats real. If the games aren't unbelievalbe they will get pounded by the editors of IGN and other gaming cites. It won't be enough to be as good as teh 360 with that price point. It would have to be notibly better. If not. People will dog it. Sony did that to themselves with their choices. And who benefits if the ps3 actually works and the games are amazing? Not the average Joe. They have to wait till the price is 200 to 300 dollars. Thats looking out for the gamers right? NOOOOO...Even if the games are fantastic....will the average joe be able to see how fantastic it is without a hd tv? NOOOOOOO If they have a regular Tv they will not see how fantastic the ps3 is or isn't. Its just bad marketing on Sony's part for the first time in their console history. Who are they marketing to? A piece of the 5% market that owns a hd tv? Or are they marketing to the future 3 or 4 years from now? Either way its a bad business move on their part. If the ps3 actually works...If the Ps3 actually lives up to the hype for the first time with any sony product..who benefits? Little Johnny who just turned 10 and he is in 4th grade and wants a Sony ps3 for his birthday? NOOOOOOO Or how about Grandma Jane who has no clue about HD? NOOOOOOO Or how about Gamer Tim who wants to play next gen games but he only has one job and isn't rich. NOOOOOOOO Or Eddy who is in college and broke but wants to play games on his free time? NOOOOOO.... Sony blew it this time. But like I said. Come the end of the year when the sh1t hits the fan, Sony fans will disappear from this site. lol...No more bashing...No more name calling...

[achira]

i think you are the one who bashes, everyone who read your comments can see this.

[SDS Overfiend]

No doubt they Blu it this Time.

[The_Firestarter]

It's idiotic and childish! We ALL know that you don't like Sony, TheMART! I might get the PS3, but won't get the 360 or Wii, 'cause pc gamers are getting Crysis first! >,< And I'm REALLY sick of fanboys like you that have nothing better to do with your days than find ANY piece of news or rumors to bash on the PS3. And finally, I LOATHE how 360 fanboys like you say the 360 will have a great fall/winter line up, and say,"...with games like Gears of War...", it's always Gears of War, Gears of War, Gears of War, that games doesn't even look like it'd be a god in the video game realm. All they do is duck and shoot, just go play KillSwitch and have a chainsaw on the gun and there you go, GOW! Pfft, this is pathetic, you guys make such a big deal of all of this...

[achira]

its obviously what theMart does. he wants only to bash. he is not interested in the ps3 but makes only bad comments and post only false bad rumours. such ppl should be kicked.

[Aflac]

its not like it's from the inquirer, u sony fanboys call anything negative about the ps3 false. When are u going to grow up and learn to face facts?! They do all the time in court sessions, this is no different, we come here and prove ur bs wrong, get over it.

[NJ1307RSX]

Sir Nathaniel you're just a sad little ms fan, some day you'll have to learn that Sony is number one in the gaming market.

[TheMART]

So is your NJ1307RS account blocked so you made the RSX account?

[NJ1307RSX]

No it just sounds cooler that way.

[TheMART]

One ain't cool with multiple accounts, voting multiple times and report people that tell the truth with all accounts one has.

That's not cool, that's lame

[NJ1307RSX]

I don't do any of those things anymore.

[TheMART]

ah ANYMORE. So you just admit that you did it. Well at last. Damn I think I would never see you admit it

[THELANDSOFSAND]

*blinks*

finally, you admit it NJ. now, no more!

[pRo loGic II]

And caned gameplay in FF??X??II? is something to boast about or the fact you Sonyfanboys say they hate FPS but now all of a sudden you guys like them. And theres much more than GOW but when people see the game and they play it as they did at E3 2006 it brings back to games what was lost with all those Japanese RPG's, thats why it's so popular.

[shoota33]

Gears of war is nothing but plastic looking graphics thats it,it is bringing nothing new to the table.

[TheMART]

Ofcourse, that's why it got the most awards @ E3 2006, best game of the year, best shooter

That's why the MP demo behind closed doors people where blown away, that's why the people @ the MS show where cheering and going wild and @ Sony's show you didn't hear them

Right or not Gametime?

[shoota33]

My piont is the game is'nt bringing anything new to the table.the only thing it offers is plastic looking graphics and gameplay that could be done on xbox.

[pRo loGic II]

Bash this bash that, it's news on a major player(SONY) in the gaming industry and as gamer's people keep up and will post about any games machine as long as there's video games. gametime plastic looking graphics ? i don't know what pics you seen baybe it's the lighting in the game that confuse's you i watch the Vid last night and dont see what you're talking about. Looks almost real to me.

[pRo loGic II]

MGS4 a hybrid of plastic action figure's from the 60's and cartoons. end of story. And tell me what's up with all the piss green graphics in most of the hits on PS3/.

[The_Firestarter]

last time I looked, my pee wasn't green...

[The Real Deal]

Of course you would say that. lol... I forgot you played it at E3 and are talking from personal experience on what Gears of War brings to the table. Its wierd that it won so many awards at E3 and everyone from ps3 editors to Pc editors to 360 editors were wowed by it. lol...

[The Real Deal]

They would ship 2 million ps3's worldwide at launch. Who believes that is going to happen now? I'm curious. lol.... This should be interesting. And lets take a guess on how many launch games there will be.

I say 1 million ps3's at launch worldwide

I say 8 launch titles

[The Real Deal]

What will be the failure rate on the cell chip once you get the ps3 home?

And what will be the failure rate of the blu ray player in the ps3?

[TheMART]

Imagine. They say well we've got 8 cores, so if one breaks already in production proces, we'll still put them in the PS

Uhm. And after that? One breaks down again, so that's 6 left. How do you notice? I guess it counts 5...4...3...2...1... take off! Launched into the atmosphere around the earth. Pfuf you're expensive console uhhh computer gone

[shoota33]

your existance here is piontless.Why are you not playing your godly console.why are 90% of your 1000's of comments in the ps3 section.You are just another jealous xbox fanboy.Go to your empty xbot section and discuss your boring games there but no one wants to hear about your silly alien based shooters all day.

[TheMART]

So that's why you like Killzone and Resistance: Fall Of Man? Oh no you don't want COD3 because you dislike FPS ain't that right?

Ah well if you don't like FPS then you will like Forza 2 kicking the PS2 smugged up GT4 HD (it stands for Hard D*ck by the way which Barbie Ken get's from all his @ssmates that believe Sony lies), so even your genre will be far more great on another console my friend

[pRo loGic II]

No one wants to hear about you're 1000's of comments on defending tierd boring played out sequels all day.

[The Real Deal]

To someone like you who ain't getting the point. Sony has messed up this time. Get it? Got it? Good.... I'm sure you don't get the point.

[The Real Deal]

When and if you get your ps3. lol.... You will finally get the point Gametime. Good luck. lol....

[f1r3waII K1LL3r]

First The CG at e3 2005 which looked awesome but this year games like motor storm dont even come close to that. Then I hear a few days ago on attack of the show that sony may use a technology that will not allow people to borrow games or rent used games. Now this, If that system doesnt come out in November Ps3 is finished. call me what you want. I wanted a Ps3, but then, the price comes, thanx but ill stick with my 360 and WII unless something drasic happens and Killzone actually looks like that (sigh).

[Droidbro]

as much as i dont like ps3 it failing will have an impact on competion of ms and they may not try as hard on there consoles. although as long developers like bungie epic and ea compete with each other we can count on good games for a while

[The Real Deal]

Thats how I feel too. Competition is good for gaming. I hope the ps3 is good. Its just not looking that way as of now. But your right...Game developers have to compete with one another to make their games more cutting edge with gameplay and graphics. So xbox360 should be good for the next 4 years. I'm looking foward to xna and direct x 10 developed games in 2007.

[mikeeno7]

Gametime, why are 90% of your comments boring and childish. If the PS3 is so godly, why not go to PS3 only news sites and forums. No one wants to hear about your endless japanese RPG's all day. GO AWAY! And please ban him.

[Aflac]

after all, we xbox fans come to tell u the truth to help save u from the terrible fate of being trapped under the decptive evil spell sony tries to cast on consumers. U take the truth and try throwing right in our faces. If sony is rlly #1 in gaming, then why did I have to lie to myself to try to enjoy ps2? The truth is that I suffered with that worthles pos! N64 was a far superior system in terms of fun. I was extremely pissed t find all the good games coming only to xbox, and all xbox versions of multiplatform games having extra stuff. Last spring I was just about t sell my ps2 for xbox, but then I hear bout 360, and I wait for it. I had also at the time heard rumor that the ps3 was gonna double the 360 (but I didn't care, sonys games sucked), I was still gonna get 360 and I did, and its been even greater than n64, something that sony still has yet to achieve. I later found out that the 360 was actually proven superior in power - that was a real bonus (not a necessity, but does give an edge). Here's proof of the 360s superiority along with other articles highlighting the downsides of ps3:
http://www.gameshout.com/ne...
http://www.gamespot.com/new...
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk...
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles...
http://ps3.ign.com/articles...
http://arstechnica.com/arti...
http://interviews.teamxbox....
http://editorials.teamxbox....
http://interviews.teamxbox....
http://www.planetxbox360.co...
http://www.gamespot.com/new...
http://www.gamespy.com/arti...
http://www.dvdtown.com/arti...
http://www.nextechnews.com/...

[TheMART]

Urm Sir I wanted to check out all the links, but only the first and the last one worked actually... Can you give them all again?

[Cyclonus]

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

"I heard the graphics on it were...CRAZY" LOL!

Funny or sad?

Both.

[Marriot VP]

I'm gonna beat you cause.....i don't know?

rofl, sony's doing a lot of whole digging

[TheMART]

Genji 2

THE GIANT ENEMY CRAB

With real time WEAPON CHANGE

To urm (hear him scrape his troath) flip over this crab on his back... if he shows up... and then attack his weak point for massage demage urm (hear him scrape his troath again)

I even was ashamed for this guy presenting that.

Genji 2. I think if I was a Sony fanboy I would never wanted to hear that game name again! So fanboys don't mention it ever again as a (launch) title, because I will laugh my butt off!

The PS itself is a giant enemy crab

[Cyclonus]

And the 360 attacks its weak spot(S) for MASS EffectIVE DAMAGE!!!!

[Cyclonus]

And if he dont know, then WTF is he paying $600 for?

Lol, they probably promised that kid a dime bag if he'd read some cue cards...

[THELANDSOFSAND]

"The fact is as was feared by myself and MANY MANY others, the PS3 is based on untested, unproven hardware and is a HUGE risk, basically sony is betting their entire company on it. With such new drive and processor components and the shear complexity of the PS3, sony's not only going to take a HUGE loss on each console, but the fact is with these high failure rates, reaching any sort of demand levels for the PS3 let alone leaving enough diodes for "other" bluray products. If sony can't improve it's silicone yield and up the diode output drastically not only will they end up making an even bigger loss on each PS3 than was originally expected (which would lead to no price cuts as has been demanded by consumers and developers), but they will also could end up not meeting the demand as they have been promising."

[Cyclonus]

http://forum.pcvsconsole.co...

DS 593k
PS2 312k
360 277k
PSP 221k
XBX 24k

277,000 Xbox 360s were sold in the month of June, beating the 250,000 units sold estimate of a few days ago...not bad for a $400 console in a typical summer game drought!

And DS, DAMN. 593,000 sold in a month!

[Marriot VP]

360's come in small bursts of 4-8, then their sold immediately and restocked within the week.

It's still selling as fast as they can be shipped to the stores so it's hard to measure up the 360 to other consoles.

[Cyclonus]

LOTR:BFMEII Demo is now available for download on Xbox Live Marketplace

[THELANDSOFSAND]

sweet

im going to go download it now

[The Real Deal]

Will be at 8 million consoles sold by ps3 launch. Unless there is a burst in unit shipments. Because as of July stores are selling as many units as they recieve. So with Gears of War, Mass Effect, Fable 2, Forza 2, and other exclusives still to come before the ps3 hits the market and hopefully they can put more consoles on the market. I know they are shiping approximately 1 million a month worldwide. So 8 to 10 million by November is more than possible. And if that happens...that will be amazing. It will take ps3 more than a year to reach 10 million, not because people don't want one. But because of the difficulties in mass producing such an intricate video game console. With the Cell and blu ray haveing low yields it will be worse than the 360's production amount. Thats real.

[TheMART]

expect even the 10 million mark @ November.

Just count with me:

first 4 months total sold: 3.2 million

That's 800.000 world wide a month. BUT due to shortages they didn't sell as much as they want. And then the montly sales (only USA to go by in backed up numbers) it went from about 200.000 in march, to 300.000 in april, in may it fell back a bit to 221.000 and now it ramped up again in june to 277.000.

The first 4 months, the average would have been somewhere more close to 200.000 as stated due to shortages. From april on, the average is about 265.000 a month. That means, it gains about 30% in sales. If we calculate that gain over the world wide sales figure from the first four months:

800.000 x 1.3 = 1.040.000 a month world wide 360 sales from April on! And that's with all the upcoming games like Gears of War, Forza 2, Lost World, Too Human and so on which ramps up the sales even more!

So 3.2 million by March
after that over 1 million a month. From April to November, that will be 7 months = 7 million + 3.2 million makes over 10 million sold before the other consoles will be launched! Not even mentioned the extra consoles sold because of Gears of War and PS that will be hard to deliver, so people will choose the 360 that's available in shops.

OMG prepair for massive 10 million by the end of October and possible even earlier!

[Aflac]

...after all, we xbox fans come to tell u the truth to help save u from the terrible fate of being trapped under the decptive evil spell sony tries to cast on consumers. U take the truth and try throwing right in our faces. If sony is rlly #1 in gaming, then why did I have to lie to myself to try to enjoy ps2? The truth is that I suffered with that worthles pos! N64 was a far superior system in terms of fun. I was extremely pissed t find all the good games coming only to xbox, and all xbox versions of multiplatform games having extra stuff. Last spring I was just about t sell my ps2 for xbox, but then I hear bout 360, and I wait for it. I had also at the time heard rumor that the ps3 was gonna double the 360 (but I didn't care, sonys games sucked), I was still gonna get 360 and I did, and its been even greater than n64, something that sony still has yet to achieve. I later found out that the 360 was actually proven superior in power - that was a real bonus (not a necessity, but does give an edge). Here's proof of the 360s superiority along with other articles highlighting the downsides of ps3:

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti... -xbox 360 proven superior to the ps3 through a detailed analysis based on HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK, not just their numbers
http://ps3.ign.com/articles... -downsides of ps3
http://www.smartcomputing.c...
http://www.gamersreports.co... -360 gpu report
http://www.gamespot.com/new... -another report highlighting the 360’s superiority over ps3
http://www.firingsquad.com/... -another detailed report proving the 360 superior to ps3

[Cyclonus]

In a recent interview in Edge magazine, Richard Huddy, European Developers Relations Manager for ATI, spoke a bit about the technical aspects of the Xbox360. He also mentioned the PS3 -- basically saying that the unit had serious power but the power is "brute force" power. The Xbox360 was much more "refined," he said. "A pretty powerful piece of hardware, but just not elegant." Click read more to read it for yourself.

How do you think your work on the 360 measures up to PS3?

I take a fairly robust view on this. The Xbox 360 GPU is designed to be a console GPU - that's what we set out to produce when we started the collaboration with Microsoft; let's build a really powerful, really flexible kind of general purpose GPU which doesn't have performance cliffs where if you do certain things suddenly the performance crashes down by a factor of two or something like that; let's have things pretty predictable and easy to work with, and let's generate about the best performance that we can- so we went for things like the unified shaders and so on. The PS3 has been designed in a quite different way because of the way the process worked. We sat down with Microsoft and said: 'This is what we think we can build', and they said: 'Yes, but what about...?' And they started picking holes in our design, so we came up with a collaborative design. They didn't put a spec in front of us and say: 'How much for this?' That definitely wasn't the dialogue - in fact that would make it more of a monologue; it would be kind of bidding on prices and so on. Instead what we have is a very collaborative design.

With the PS3 my understanding of what happened is that they had three different internal hardware solutions - at one point, for example, as I understand it there was a proposal to use multiple Cell processors just to handle the graphics. And towards the end of the process, as the story goes, they took a look at the three internal tenders and decided than none of them would actually do; none of them would deliver the kind of performance and quality that games programmers could use and would make for a good cost-effective console, so they had to go out and shop around. And one of the places they shopped was Nvidia, and what Nvidia did was say: 'Well, you've got this relatively short timeframe, you've got roughly this kind of budget, I'll tell you what we'll do: we'll do you a good price on what is essentially the 7800GTX'. So that's a PC chip, and if you look at the architecture of the two consoles you can see we've done bizarre things that they haven't. We've built ten megabytes of dedicated ED RAM which knows how to antialias and so on, because that's a specific way of addressing a console's problem. It's bizarre in a PC sense but a special skill for a console builder. Whereas the PS3 has 256 meg of system memory and 256 meg of graphics memory it communicates through what is effectively a PCI express bus. It uses GDDR3 fast memory, it's essentially a PC graphics design bolted on to a Cell processor and 256 meg of fast system memory...

You make it sound so unrefined!

[Laughs.] Well, yeah, but the tragedy is that it is unrefined. There's a lot brute force in there - I'd be the last person to admit it, but the truth is that the 7800GTX is a pretty powerful piece of hardware, but it's not very elegant, it hasn't got the kind of: 'Well, how do we design this to be the best possible console we can build for this money?' Instead it's been put together at the end of quite a complicated process. We have two very different design processes. If Microsoft had come to us and said: 'All right, what are we going to do about this graphics chip, then? Let's sign the contract and let's go', but then we'd got two thirds through and they'd said: 'Look, you guys aren't going to deliver - now what are you going to do?' and then walked away from us, they would have ended up with a design very much like the PS3 in some essential characteristics - it would have had to use bought-in components. And our GPUs instead are custom-designed components, and that's one of the fundamental reasons why I think Xbox 360 technology is likely to outperform PlayStation 3 technology by a pretty healthy margin in the long run.

So how about this one: can those E3 PS3 demos be achieved on Xbox 360?

Well, why not take another combative line here? I think it's more likely that they can be realised on an Xbox 360 than they can be on a PS3. Those things are movies generated using whatever DCC software the houses had in mind. The Epic demo was running on a PC, and it was done using an early 7800 in SLI mode, so that was a high-end PC demo, but the movies were generated as movies and dressed up as: 'This is what you can expect from a PS3', but that's probably overstating what the PS3 can do a little bit. Indeed, it's well beyond what we expect the PS3 to be able to do. So I guess we'll just have to see what happens..."

http://www.gamersreports.co...

[TheMART]

That is a real good read indeed!

And it makes sense. Sony isn't innovative anymore like they were with the PS1.

You can also see that in the announced games. Almost no exclusives, and especially not much NEW exclusives. Mostly sequels and a lot of them dull ones.

And this confirms it. With Sony you're paying a lot for less actually overall. It may sound like raw power full of potential, but in reality it is specs on paper but in games it'll be limited for sure

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

PS3 and the nasty green or just plain dull looking games. Thats why when the light flashes on the charectors on Gow PS3 fans think it looks plastic lol.

[Cyclonus]

Sony has been having some trouble with patent disputes of late. In March 2005, Immersion Corporation won its lawsuit claiming that Sony's DualShock PlayStation and PlayStation 2 controllers infringed on its force-feedback patents. A judge ordered Sony to pay more than $90 million in damages, and earlier this year denied an attempt from the electronics giant to have the decision overturned.

Now Sony's in the middle of another patent fight, this one brought against the company by Pennsylvania-based Agere Systems. According to court documents, Agere (which has a pair of offices in Texas) has filed suit against Sony and a number of its divisions for willful infringement of eight patents in a number of its products, including the PSP, PlayStation 2, and based on announced specifications, the PlayStation 3. Sony VAIO computers, Handycams, Walkman players, Memory Stick Duos, and Location Free TV are also named as infringing offerings on some of the patents. The patents in question run from a "wireless local area network apparatus" to "barrier layer treatments for tungsten plug."

Agere is asking that each branch of Sony be made to provide an accounting of all gains made through their alleged infringements, and that the company be awarded damages to adequately compensate it based on those figures. Agere also claims that Sony knew about the patents and willfully infringed on them, so it is asking the courts to boost the damages awarded as much as three times what it would have been otherwise.

http://www.gamespot.com/new...

[Cyclonus]

Action Man - Sony is having a hard time as of late with some old allies, mainly due to their dealings with the PSP
Action Man - Do you remember the preliminary Sony PSP release lists they released way back at TGS 2k4?
Action Man - It had wonderfull games on em like Devil may cry
Action Man - Shin Megami Tensei
Action Man - King of Fighters Maximum Impact
Action Man - Gran Turisimo 4 Mobile etcetera
Action Man - Those games shouldnt have been on those lists because the developers never intended to release those games for PSP
Action Man - If you'll recall, Sony Computer Entertainment Japan were the ones who announced DMC for the PSP, not Capcom.
Action Man - Sony however because of lack of high profile third party development for PSP put them on the release lists anyway and then started to strongarm the publishers to actually make those games
Action Man - Sony failed big time
Action Man - They outright lied with the PSP to show it had more support then it really had
Action Man - and that they arent able to do the same with PS3 now because people are catching up to their previous lies
Action Man - they anounced a ****load of games that the devs themselves didnt even wanna make
Action Man - GT4 mobile
Action Man - same ****
Action Man - they streamed PS2 footage on a PSP screen for that

Action Man - A double embaresment not only because the likes of Capcom, Atlus etcetera refused to be blackmailed into making those games
Action Man - But more so because even a Sony first party developer put it on the backburner(Polyphony with GT4 Mobile)

Action Man - Now Sony is planning to do the same for their next PS3 showing but the publishers are refusing to play along
Action Man - Sony has been begging em to anounce certain franchises and new IP, even if they are not working on em
Action Man - They have tried to convince them to make CG trailers claiming to be games in development
Action Man - Yet the Devs are not playing along this time

Major Tom - you have this on good authority?
Action Man - yah
Action Man - devs themselves

Major Tom - any franchises we know of?
Action Man - no comment
Action Man - some big ****
Action Man - and big devs

Major Tom - sounds like they were trying to prep for tgs
Action Man - more like their summer show and leipzig games con and then TGS
Action Man - but yeah
Action Man - its looking grimmer then expected
Action Man - way things stand now
Action Man - with the games being prepared for release up until april
Action Man - MS will blow them away in quality, quantity
Action Man - as well as graphics
Action Man - thats why they wanted devs and publishers to show target **** claiming its games in development so people will say
Action Man - hey the x360 killer stuff is coming
Action Man - but they dont want that
Action Man - because they dont even know if they want to make those games for PS3 AND it would cut into the sales of the early games they have for next gen systems because people might figure to wait for the anounced games instead of buying what will be available shortly
Major Tom - sony is getting smacked down by japanese devs it seems
Action Man - yup

Major Tom - Sony expects publishers to shell out money to produce CG movies of games that havent been signed?
Action Man - they offered to ofset that by deducting that from the liscensing costs if the games get made and come to market
Major Tom - wow
Action Man - in effect helping em to develop CG and make sure that the games would come to market
Action Man - they did the same before
Major Tom - i see
Action Man - They are sponsoring MGS4 for instance since they know the importance of that title
Action Man - Its nothing they havent done before
Action Man - They funded the killzone PS3 CG show and were commited to fund it even before they aquired Guerrilla outright
Action Man - same with second party stuff like Motorstorm
Action Man - that CG presentation which they claimed it was ALL GAMEPLAY was paid for with Sony money as well
Action Man - and as it is
Action Man - even the entire development of games like Heavenly Sword and Motorstorm despite not being first party games is entirely funded by Sony
Action Man - same with some PSP commissions they have going

Major Tom - and the CG movie is the initial hook?
Major Tom - the offer to have it made is the way they are approaching devs?
Action Man - Exactly
Action Man - they need to because very few companies seem willing to invest the 20 million+ needed to push the PS3 system to x360 or past x360 levels

Major Tom - that is really pathetic
Action Man - they need it

Major Tom - then again look at the only real ps3 gameplay that has been shown
Major Tom - it is awful
Action Man - they need killer software, real or otherwise,to push installed base of PS3 past x360 in the first few years
Action Man - in order to get the installed base of blu ray players high enough so they can kill of HD DVD and kickstart the new format
Action Man - third parties are wary after previous Sony promises never panned out
Action Man - Current PS3 is a lot weaker then the killer box Sony told em to wait for 3 years ago
Major Tom - wow
Action Man - Their first party software alone is not enough
Action Man - that has been proven by the PSP
Major Tom - one thing, are big devs turning Sony down?
Action Man - yes
Major Tom - on their CG offers?
Action Man - just check Ubisoft's recent public comment about the PS3 needing a pricedrop in 2007, that comment wasn't as innocuous as some might think.
Action Man - EA is doing the same in private
Action Man - and even Square/Enix has threatened to take Dragonquest elsewhere and threatened by making FFXIII core games multiplatform if they are unhappy with PS3 performance
Major Tom - holy crap
Major Tom - you arent bull****ting are you?
Action Man - Nope
Action Man - meanwhile
Action Man - Companies like Rockstar and Ubisoft are angry about Sony's unwillingnes to pay for timed exclusives to the extent they used to while Sony has aided Sega of all companies to the tune of several million dollars to get games like VF5 exclusively
Action Man - This is because Sony realises that games like VF5 at Sega and their entire Koei partnership(the reason why they showed of crap like Genji2 of at E3) are important for them to secure critical mass in Japan
Action Man - So the western developers feel left out
Action Man - for a company like Rockstar its very hard to accept that they are seen as lesser then Koei by Sony, its hard for them to accept that they have to play second fiddle
Major Tom - What timed exclusives did sony ever get from ubi? Or is that in reference to Assasin's Creed?
Action Man - for instance yes
Action Man - unless Sony pays up to ubisoft
Action Man - in hopes of securing and reaching critical mass fast in japan
Major Tom - right
Action Man - ubisoft will decide that they can make more money by releasing the game simultaneously on ps3, 360 and pc
Action Man - they dont want to be killed again by nintendo
Action Man - like the DS is killing PSP
Action Man - thats a very real fear for sony for Japan
Action Man - the thing is, those western devs have more leverage in that respect
Action Man - because they KNOW it will sell on x360
Action Man - unlike vf5, Koei games etc.
Action Man - So the Western devs need Sony to make it worthwhile for them to stick exclusive, something Sony isn't willing or capable of doing at this point.
Action Man - Losing the number 1 spot in japan would mean they lose the number 1 spot worldwide
Action Man - japanese centered developers would make Wii games instead of PS3 games and International oriented developers(like koei and Sega) would switch to multiformat and timed exclusive publishing
Action Man - all things that would kill Sony's long term chances worldwide

Major Tom - now that dq, ff13 ****, you have that on good authority?
Major Tom - because that is HUGE
Action Man - yah
Major Tom - wow
Action Man - they are threatening
Action Man - doesnt mean it will happen
Action Man - sony will most likely cave in for such a title
Action Man - and give em a big moneybag anyway
Action Man - we shall see

[Nodoze]

If even half of this is true, Sony is in much worse shape than even I imagined. Wii will dominate Japan, 360 moving strong in US and EU so Sony is in essence already playing catch up. PSP is a resounding failure, and soon so will be the PS3. I hate to see the mighty fall because competition is a good thing, but in this case blind arrogance will lead them off the cliff that they are rapidly approaching.

The clock is ticking fanboys, do you really think you will get a PS3 before mid to late 2007?

[pRo loGic II]

PS has never been more powerful than any of the other console's in the generation it's in, Period!; never have and never will. PS3 weaker where it counts. lol

[shoota33]

Now thats an ignorant xbox fanboy staement.You really need to grow up,you know ps3 is more powerful so there is no reason even to debate that.Get a life grow up and face the facts sony made the more powerful console this time deal with it.

[Aflac]

If there were a court case about which console is more powerful, the 360 would have won before it began because the PROOF of the 360's superiority over ps3 has already been revealed. Here's your proof (for the millionth time):
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti... -xbox 360 proven superior to the ps3 through a detailed analysis based on HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK, not just their numbers
http://ps3.ign.com/articles... -downsides of ps3
http://www.smartcomputing.c...
http://www.gamersreports.co... -360 gpu report
http://www.gamespot.com/new... -another report highlighting the 360’s superiority over ps3
http://www.firingsquad.com/... -another detailed report proving the 360 superior to ps3

Take note that sony has said nothing to counterattack the tech analysis because they know very well its all true. They did counterattack and dismiss some downgrade rumours, because those were the only attacks on sony that were false and could be proven so.

Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

[TheMART]

A lot of your links are not working again, and I would like to have that good read!!!

[SDS Overfiend]

One more Gain For the people Who missed it.

plain and simple the ps3 is unproven of anything and with no playable anythings at 2 E3's no one is trusting sh1t sony right now. Now as of this moment Sony can't even produce their own f@#king hardware? This makes me Skeptical about Sony and their mishaps. Just think back about the Failed Minidisc player (Cause they did'nt want to use MP3's but their own musical format.).Then there was the Sony Wega that failed before they got it correct with the bravia. So Sony figure since the DVD players Blew up in japan when it was featured with the PS2 system then why not repeat the prognosis with a new and improved Blu-ray player with the PS3? Being PS2 was the all around entertainment system cause it covered 2 things essential in households entertainment centers which was Video games and Movies sony had it locked.In Japan with Bigger equipment means more space required in small homes to set up shop. Think about this, in most of our rooms we have a PC, PC stands, Nice size TV, Xbox,PS2, Region free DVD player for imports, Radio's, Ipods,A Cable Modem, Shelf of games, ETC the pretty much sums up our sh1t. Now for people with not a lot of room in Japan PS3 and PSP is trying to cover everything Entertainment wise(Gaming,Web surfing,Playing Music, Watching Movies, portable music, movies and games.)So i know where sony is going but blu-ray ain't that big of a step up for DVD players to change the world cause the DVD bussiness was never in jeopardy sony is.

[96impala]

In Nelsons voice .... Haa haaa.

[TheMART]

The PSZero even has more problems on it's hand, read this survey:

"The survey was conducted from June 28 to July 2 by Ipsos-Vantis, a company that specializes in forecasting demand for new products and sizing emerging categories. They have evaluated over 1,200 new consumer electronics products worldwide and have successfully predicted the size of the overall market and the individual platforms in emerging categories including DVD. Ipsos-Vantis forecasts have been tracked extensively against in-market sales, and have consistently produced a level of accuracy that is unmatched by any other firm in the world.

1. In response to the question “Which statement best describes how likely you would be to buy an HD DVD player,” respondents were over seven times more likely to buy an HD DVD player vs. a Blu-Ray player when all studios support both formats.

a. 57% would definitely or probably buy an HD DVD player vs. 8% for Blu-Ray.

b. 25% would definitely buy HD DVD vs. 2% for Blu-Ray.

2. Purchase interest in HD DVD remains three times higher than Blu-Ray -- even without HD DVD studio support from Disney and Fox.

a. 56% of respondents would definitely or probably buy an HD DVD player vs. 18% for Blu-Ray.

b. 20% would definitely buy HD DVD vs. 6% for Blu-Ray.

3. The main reason consumers prefer HD DVD over Blu-Ray is its superior value.

a. In response to the question, “Which statement best describes how you feel about the value of an HD DVD player,” nearly 57% of respondents indicated that HD DVD was a “very good” or “fairly good” value vs. 14% for Blu-Ray.

b. Conversely, 68% indicated that Blu-Ray was a “somewhat poor” or “very poor” value vs. 19% for HD DVD.

4. In the 4th quarter 2006, the quantity of titles in the HD DVD format is assumed to be two times more than Blu-Ray (200+ for HD DVD vs. approximately 100 for Blu-Ray). "

Yup people prefer the HD-DVD drive, which isn't strange with me because it's the cheaper option and gives sharper images. The burners in computers will also sell more and those PC users make or break a format.

BetaBluRay is dead before it even started. Like Sony had with UMD

[kingboy]

aahhhhhhhh!!!it`s coming ...what...it`s coming the ps3 ...hate it or luv it.

[mikeeno7]

It's ironic how gametime says people are ignorant xbox fanboys, when he is the biggest Sony @ss i've ever laid eyes on...

[THAMMER1]

He will not get it untill Nov. 17,2006 and there is another delay. If I was a Sony fan I would just chill out and get a 360 and wait for the PS4 if there is going to be one.

[achira]

haha what a joke, i am so lucky that you are not a sony fan.

[Trickedbullet]

With all the news I have heard lately, I know the ps3 will fail. Common sense just screams not to buy one. I have always purchased Microsoft products and have never been dissapointed. Sony products on the other hand have just been...well....bla and crappy in comparison. I am really glad I never bought into the sony hype train and fell in love with the Microsoft train.

[TheMART]

And we are so glad that you aren't a 360 owner.

Although all other former Sony die hard fanboys that have been have their @ss ripped by Barbie Ken's g@y lies are welcome to buy the 360 and after all that sh*t have some fun this Christmas.

The choice:

A 600 dollar dissapointment

or

The best console ever for 400 dollars, saves you 200 dollars for a Wii or 3 to 4 games, including the best game for the coming time:

Gears of War

[TheMART]

I was talking to Achira ofcourse in my last comment haha

[Aflac]

I dont rlly know if I even want that game, the graphics are insanely realistic in terms of detail, but characters and plot...idk. The halo game are not my favorite either, though they are among my top five, maybe Halo 3 will make it to #1 for me, till then it's pdz all the way - that game probly has the wors character graphics but excellent background and weapon graphics and the best gameplay altogether in multiplayer (the single player has crappy plot and voice acting, but the gameplay itself is great). It is the most complicated in terms of weapons, it is one of the few fps's that gives manueverability, and great control style. BTW, the map pack was worth all 500 points!

[Eternal E 808]

change your mind about gears.lol

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

ENJOY!

[kingboy]

why waste ur sorry @SS in forums trying to make sony fans get a 360 when ur not in their pockets.that`s stupid and a waste of time

[f1r3waII K1LL3r]

GOW will be ten times that game and trying to compare halo to that game is ignorant maybe the first perfect dark but PDZ is not good at all just look at the online stats. Anyway PDZ's gameplay sucks too its not user friendly at all I mean If I have a rocket luancher thats it nothing else because its to heavy, thats not fun. But I agree with the Weapons they look sick. Oh yea Playstation 3 is finished like I said yesterday.

[Aflac]

...they take no skill, if ppl wanna b rocket noobs, they shouldnt be allowed any other weapons with it - this adds more balance to the game. Just my opinion, and as I said, I don't know much bout GOW. I like complicated shooters that require skill - that PDZ does.

[ACE]

what happens if ur cell pops on you ??????

A) YOU HAVE TO THROW THE PS3 IN THE BIN LOL

what happens if the beta ray drive busts on you ?

a) YOU WOULD HAVE A BILL OF LIKE $300-350 LOL

given sonys dodgey dvd drives is a fact

i realy feel sorry for you sony droids lol....

oh the article is NOT rumer its TRUE this was said a couple of months ago too now again hmmmmm

so not only do you have to pay $600 dollers ++ but make sure you get that added warenty lol what a joke....

gaytime/nj/the truth/achira and all other fony fans you lot are funny fuks keep us laughing lol lol lol

[Optimus Prime]

i am getting both, gow and halo 3. there is nothing that the ps3 has to counter. i dont think grand trismo will come close to these games, not even close. that is pretty mucht the only one i can think of. that is just sad. 360 all the way!

[THE TRUTH]

This info. is being taken WAY out of context. Let me explain things to everyone

The article crearly explains that cell has only a 10-20% of yields. Obviously, that figure is refering to the cell, with 8 fully working SPE´s. He then clearly stays that the yields percent increases to 40% when redundancy is applied. So, what is the redundancy that he is talking about? mthe original redundancy on cell chips that Ken Kutaragi originally explained, and that is using only 7 spes for the ps3, so that if a chip doesnt have 8 fully working SPEs, but 7 of them still work, they can be used in the console. The eight SPE is the redundant one, so taking in account that the eight SPE could be damaged but only seven of them are needed then the chip is still usable. Obviously, you have a higher percentage of having chips with 7 workings SPEs than having onces with 8 fully working ones.

Those with 8 fully working SPEs, whose yield rate is between 10-20%, are the one that are being used for military and medical agencies.

And before someone starts jumping the gun about the 40% yield rate still being too low, thats the same yield rate of the A64 chips.

And now regarding faulty PS3s. that article clearly explaings that sony is spending quite a fortune to assure that there are no faulty cell chips with their ps3s.

How are they achieving this? the article clearly states that they are using burn-in every chip, and that could cost as muchs as 1 dollar per chip. 6 Million ps3s in the end of march 2007, means at least 10 millions dollars spent just making sure that the chipos are not faulty. As much as 10 millions cuz not all the chips will be ok after the process.

If you want to know what is Burn-in, check this link:
http://www.anandtech.com/gu...

THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!

[THE TRUTH]

Here is a great post form a gamer made on one of the news articles

Kevmac83 wrote:

Is it at all possible for a piece of PS3 news to come out without it immediately being pounced upon and criticized? I'm well aware that everyone's free to share their opinions, but that doesn't necessarily mean you have to. Over time, it becomes evident that certain people dislike certain consoles. But all this says is "God of War 2's shaping up well; a third may arrive on the PS3."

How can that possibly be worth someone's time to insult? It's just a statement. It's not an attack, it's not being glorified as some greatest game ever . . . just a statement. Today, I did something I've NEVER done before . . . I clicked that little "Xbox 360" tab up there, and went over to foreign territory. I went through the system-specific news posts on the site, and saw it a very peaceful land indeed. Everyone was talking about the games or the news. People were getting along, having friendly banter, and productive conversation. The first thing I noticed was there were no PS fans over there harassing anyone or invoking their rights to share their opinion. The second thing I noticed is that Xbox is getting a Zegapain game, which I hope sells well (love the series).

Anyways, all this was probably for naught, and I'll most likely recieve some sort of bad feedback from someone, but I can't help it. Tis my nature to advocate peace :-)

[THE TRUTH]

let me prove to you about the PS3's value so we can end this debate and move-on.

Playstation 3 and Xbox360 – Comparing and Contrasting:
Before I compare and contrast with the Xbox360 hardware, here are some quick facts about the Xbox360 hardware:
Xbox360 Quick Hardware Summary:
The Xbox360 has a tri-symmetrical core CPU. Each one of the cores is based on the POWER architecture like the PPE inside the Cell, and is clocked at 3.2GHz. Each core has 32kb L1 instruction and 32kb LI data cache, and has a 1MB shared L2 cache. Each chip also sports an enhanced version of the VMX-128 instruction set and execution units. This enhanced version expands the register file from 32 128-bit registers, to a pair of 128 128-bit registers – with one execution unit per core. Each of these cores can also dual-issue instruction and handles two hardware threads, bringing the Xbox360 thread total to 6 hardware threads. The CPU and GPU share 512MB of GDDR3 RAM. Xbox360’s GPU, codenamed “Xenos” is designed by ATI and sports 48 shader pipelines using a unified shader architecture. The Xbox360 GPU also has 10MB of eDRAM for the frame buffer and over 200GB/s of bandwidth between this eDRAM and a simple logic uni, for a limited set of 3D processing effects such as anti-aliasing and z-buffering.

The system sports a DVD9 optical media drive from which games are loaded, a controller with rumble features, and 100mbps Ethernet.

Head To Head:
General Architecture Differences:
One thing I think is important when looking at CPU architecture is visuals. In the world of computing, physical distance between parts of a computer system generally corresponds with the speed (latency-wise) of their communication,

Bandwidth Assessment:
I recall an article IGN released short after or during E3 2005 comparing Playstation 3 and Xbox360. Microsoft analyzed their total system bandwidth in the Xbox360 and came up with some outrageous numbers compared to the Playstation 3. One of the big reasons for this total number being higher is the 256GB/s bandwidth between the daughter die and parent die in the Xenos(graphics chip). I will explain the use of the eDRAM memory later, but it is important to know that the logic performed between those two components with 256GB/s bandwidth hardly constitutes a system component where considering game processing takes place. Additionally, Microsoft added up bandwidths that weren’t relevant to major component destinations such as “to CPU” or “to GPU.” Context like that matters a lot, because bandwidth between any two elements is only as fast as the slowest memory bus in-between. The only bandwidth figures that make sense to add together are those on separate buses to the end destination.

The biggest ugly (and this really is a big one) in the Xbox360 diagram should be the location of the CPU relative to the main system memory. It has to be accessed through the GPU’s memory controller. The Xbox360 GPU’s memory has 22.4GB/s bandwidth to the system’s unified memory, and this bandwidth is split between the GPU’s needs and the CPU’s. A simple investigation would show that if the Xenon(Xbox360 CPU) was using its full 21.6GB/s bandwidth to system memory, there would be 800MB/s left for the GPU. If the GPU was using it’s full bandwidth to this memory, none would be left for anything else. Additionally, the southbridge(I/O devices) is connected through the GPU also, and all of these devices are actually destined to go to the CPU unless sound for the Xbox360 is done on the Xenos. The impact of this is considerably less since I/O devices probably won’t exceed more than a few hundred MB/s during a game, and isn’t shared by GPUs 22.4GB/s access to main memory. This bandwidth is still going through the same bus that the CPU uses to access RAM though.

Looking at the diagram of the Playstation 3, you can see that the RSX has a dedicated 22.4 GB/s to its video memory, and the Cell has a dedicated 25.6GB/s to its main memory. Additionally, if you wanted to find the bandwidth the RSX could use from the Cell’s main memory, it go through the 35GB/s link between the Cell and itself, and then go through the Cell processor’s FlexIO controller, on the EIB, to the Cells memory controller which is the gatekeeper to RAM. The slowest link in the line is the bandwidth the XDR memory controller provides which is 25.6GB/s. If the RSX uses this extra bandwidth it is being shared with the Cell. In general though, the major components in the Playstation 3 have their own memory to work with which provides maximum bandwidth.

In terms of peak performance, if both the GPU and CPU for both consoles were pushing the maximum bandwidths from their respective memory banks, the total for Xbox360 would be 22.4GB/s, and the total for the Playstation 3 would be 48GB/s. I believe this to be the most important bandwidth measure as both of these elements are the major programmable elements of a gaming machine. They will be processing game data or graphics data independently, and need fast access and high bandwidth to what they are working on.

While the Xbox360 shared bandwidth is a big downside on the grand scheme of things considering potential, Microsoft probably allowed this due to the nature of a game loops often not involving both the CPU and GPU needing high bandwidth simultaneously. Overall, during a game loop, Xbox360 will probably use its 22.4GB/s bandwidth almost constantly due to the CPU using it heavily for a part of the game loop, and the GPU using extreme bandwidth during another part of the game loop. While a Playstation 3 game, if it uses a typical game loop design, would show half of the frame time, the CPU is using high bandwidth to its memory, the other half being mostly unused; and the same thing for the GPU’s use of video RAM. That isn’t a disadvantage of the Playstation 3’s part, but it is a lack of using its full potential. A modified game loop that kept both rendering and CPU processing high would fare far better on the Playstation 3’s bandwidth and design than the Xbox360.

In the worst case scenario for the Playstation 3, if the GPU literally only used bandwidth for half of the game loop, overtime, you could consider it’s bandwidth to be half of its peak. Same thing applied to the Cell and XDR RAM would yield 12.8GB/s bandwidth if it only used XDR half of the time. Although Playstaiton 3 not to be outdone - if the situation of a game loop is like this, the RSX might as well take the XDR RAM bandwidth while the CPU is idling and increase its total bandwidth to 48GB/s.

Xbox360 “Xenon” compared to Playstation 3’s “Cell” – the CPUs:
Inter-core communication speed:
Another mystery with the Xbox360 (at least in my view) exists with the inter-core communication on the Xenos CPU between its cores. IBM clearly documents the Cell’s inter-core communication mechanism physically and how it is implemented in hardware and software. This bandwidth needs to be extremely high if separate cores need to communicate and share data effectively. The EIB on the Cell is documented at a peak performance of 204GB/s with an observed rate at 197GB/s. The major factor that affects this rate is the direction, source, and destination of data flow between the SPE and PPEs on the Cell. I tried to find out the equivalent piece of hardware inside the Xenon CPU and haven’t found a direct answer.

Looking at the second architectural diagram of the Xenon, it seems that the fastest method the cores can use to talk to each other is through the L2 cache. Granted, the Xenon only has 3 cores, game modules are usually highly dependent and will need to talk to each other frequently. I might be a jumping the gun a bit, but given the L2 cache and FSB are running at half of the core speed, as opposed to the Playstation 3’s EIB which runs at the same clock speed as the cores, I’m pretty positive using L2 cache to communicate is not going to be very fast. It seems that independent threads are really what Microsoft was aiming for with the Xbox360 CPU design, and games are not optimally implemented if they have massive streaming transfers to hand off to other cores. What would suggest that the Xbox360 cores can communicate quickly and with high bandwidth, would be evidence that the reading and writing to the L2 cache are in larger segments than the writes to the EIB, compensating for the lower clock speed. Additionally, just writing to memory isn’t enough as the receiver needs some sort of notification that it has new data unless it is a permanent buffer. If anyone wants to do research on the topic, please add it to the discussion and include links to your sources.

Enhanced VMX-128 instruction set:
This is one of the features Microsoft boasts to claim they have a better gaming machine than Sony. They focus on the fact that their enhancements support a single cycle dot product instruction, and the larger register file. The problem with this boast over the Playstation 3 is that it compares it to the PPE’s VMX-128 unit which comparably only has 1 set of 32 128-bit registers and presumably less instructions. If the code requires 128 128-bit registers, or more complex instructions, then the code is most definitely vector processing heavy and should be run on an SPE which sports the exact same register file size, and includes a superset of the VMX instructions in terms of functionality(it is not a superset in terms of being binary compatible).

While each core in the Xbox360 also has two VMX-128 register sets, this is done to support the dual threaded nature of the cores better. It doesn’t actually have two vector execution units. Each core only has one VMX-128 execution unit meaning that even though there are two sets of registers per core, two threads that are using vector code have to share this single execution unit.

Comparably, the Cell’s PPE has the limited 32 128-bit register file with a single VMX vector unit on the PPE. This is what Microsoft usually singles out when they compare Playstation 3 to the Xbox360’s CPU. They forget(purposefully) that the Cell has 7 SPEs running at 3.2 GHZ, which is far greater SIMD performance than their 3 enhanced VMX-128 execution units. For vector based computations, the Playstation 3 undeniably outdoes the Xbox360 by an order of magnitude.

The dot product instruction claim is matched at least on the SPEs on the Playstation 3 though a simple multiply-add instruction. For those of you that aren’t mathematically inclined, a dot product is basically a measure of how parallel or perpendicular two lines are. The calculation of a dot product is basically multiplying each corresponding dimension value together, and then taking those products and adding them all together. Take two vectors <2, 3, 4> and <6, 7, 8>. The dot product would be: 2*6 + 3*7 + 4*8 = 65. If you read the earlier section in this post covering the SPES and SIMD architectures, you should remember that at the very least, an SPE can do all of the multiplying in one cycle, and all that needs to be done is a follow up add between the elements in the result vector. I do know that the SPEs have a few multiply-add instructions, but the bit of haziness is if the multiply can be an intra-vector(between two separate vectors) operation, while the add instruction is an inter-vector(between elements in the same vector) instruction from the result of the multiply. Sony claims that the dot product can be done in one cycle on an SPE, and it is very reasonable that this is the case as there are vector permute/shuffles/shift instructions in the SPE instruction set. There just isn’t a labeled dot product instruction in the SPE instruction set – but an intelligent programmer should find what he needs.

I found the multiply-add instruction in the Cell BE Handbook. It takes 4 vectors, one is definitely the result vector and two are operands, but the third parameter named ‘rc’, which I think represents a control register that dictates how to perform inter and intra vector operations. That means the multiply-add instruction has to operate on only two vectors, and the control vector is able to dictate an add between the result components of the multiply.

Symmetrical Cores?:
Symmetrical cores means identical cores. The appeal to this setup is entirely for developers. It represents no actual horsepower advantage over asymmetric cores since code running on any of the cores, will run exactly the same as it would run if it were on another core. Relocating code to different cores has absolutely no performance gain or loss unless it means something with respect to how the 3 cores talk to each other. It should be noted though, that thread relocation does matter between the cores, as a thread might not co-exist well with another thread that is trying to use the same hardware that isn’t duplicated on the core. In that case, the thread would be better located on a core that has that execution resource free or less used. The only case of this I can think of is the VMX-128 execution unit. I think most other hardware is duplicated on the cores in the 360 to allow for two threads to co-exist with almost no problem.

The Cell chip has asymmetrical cores, which means they are not all identical. That being said, the SPEs are all symmetrical with each other and the code that runs on an SPE could be relocated to any other SPE in the Cell. While the execution speed local to the SPEs are the same, there are performance issues related to the bandwidth the SPE is using and who it’s talking to on the EIB. Developers should look at where their SPE code is executing to ensure optimal bandwidth is being observed on the EIB, but once they find an optimal location to execute the code on, they can just put it there without rewriting anything. If a task was running on the PPE or PPE’s VMX unit, then it would have to be recompiled with C, and probably rewritten if hardware specific instructions are in the code(C or ASM) before it moves to an SPE, and the same applies in reverse. Good design and architecture should immediately let developers know what should run on the PPE and what should run on the SPEs, eliminating the chance of rewriting code if they see something better fit to run on an SPE later in development.

Is general purpose needed?:
Another one of Microsoft’s claims for the Xbox360’s superiority in gaming is the general purpose processing advantage since they have 3 general purpose cores instead of 1.

To say “most of the code is general purpose” probably refers to code size, not execution time. First, it should be clarified that “general purpose code” is only a label for the garden variety of instructions that may be given to hardware. On the hardware end, this code fits into various classifications such as arithmetic, load/store, SIMD, floating point, and possibly more. General purpose applications are programs made up of general purpose code on the scale that one function might be arithmetically heavy, and another might be memory bound. Good examples of this are MS Word, a web browser, or an entire operating system. With MS Word there is a lot of string processing which involves some arithmetic, comparison, a lot of branching, and memory operations. When you click import or export and save to various file formats, it is an I/O heavy operation. Applications like these tend to not execute the same code over an over, and have many different functions that can occur on relatively a small set of data depending on what the user does. These functions can vary from being very I/O device bound (saving to disk), to string processing intensive (spelling/grammar check), to floating point intensive(embedded Flash media game or resizing an image). Ultimately, there is a large amount of code written to handle the small set of data and most of it never gets executed.

Games are not general purpose programs. Any basic game programming book will introduce you to the concept of a game loop. This loop contains all of the functionality a game performs each frame. This loop handles all of the events that can occur in the game. An important principle in a game loop is to avoid branches when unnecessary as it slows down execution and makes the code on screen extremely and unnecessarily long. A good example of this is the Cohen-Sutherland line clipping algorithm. Instead of writing lengthy and complicated branches to check the 9 regions a point lies in, the code performs 4 simpler checks, and computes a region code which can be easily be used.

This automatic and repetitive processing has to occur for many game objects which represents a massive amount of data, with a relatively small code size. This is opposite of the general purpose paradigm, which typically has a small set of data (word document or html) and performs many various functions on it representing a large code size. Games processing has a large data size, but much smaller code size. Game objects also tend to be very parallel in nature as game objects are typically independent until they interact (collision) – which means they can be processed well on SIMD architectures if they are well thought out..

The whole integer advantage claim for the Xbox360 CPU is pretty stupid considering the SIMD architectures can operate on 4 32-bit integers at the same time, and integer processing abilities of games are not the bottleneck of 3D games processing.

What this general purpose power does grant Xbox360 owners over Playstation 3 is the ability to run general purpose applications faster. If the Xbox360 had a web browser(official or not), the design for such an application would work better on a general purpose CPU(s). That being said, it’s too bad Xbox360 doesn’t come with one, and web browsers don’t put the highest demand on general purpose processors to begin with. Most general purpose applications remain idle until the user gives actually input. The application will then process the task and complete before sitting idle again.

AI routines that navigate through large game trees are probably another area where general purpose processing power might be better utilized since this code tends to be more branch laden and varying depending on the task the AI is actually trying to accomplish. The plus side for the Playstation 3 is generating of these game trees, which is also time consuming. Generating a game tree is a more computational oriented task, and is likely to be executed faster by SIMD architectures. I am largely speaking speculatively under my Computer Science knowledge in this area. Anyone who knows more or has done more research on AI algorithms is welcome to add to discussion in this area.

The only case I can really see the general purpose computing power of the Xbox360 cores manifesting itself as a true advantage over the Playstation 3, is if Windows or similar OS was put on an Xbox360, having multiple applications running simultaneously along with some background services. Again, it is funny that Playstation 3 is more likely to have a general purpose operating system running on it than Xbox360 even though it would perform worse doing such a task.

XDR vs GDDR3 – System Memory Latency:
XDR stands for eXtreme Data Rate while GDDR3 stands for Graphics Double Data Rate version 3. XDR RAM is a new next generation RAM technology from those old folks at Rambus, who brought out that extremely high bandwidth RDRAM back during the onset of Pentium 4 processors. DDR was released soon after and offered comparable ...

[Eternal E 808]

http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

and yes this is in-game,Read.

[HDDVD360]

You want a job? Damn you are good. You can make sh1t look like a pot of Gold. hahahahahaha... Keep up the good work. Boy oh Boy do I wish what you made up was true. That would get all these developers off my back. Why can't they understand. People are paying for potential. Now the truth of the matter is that "potential" will never be realized. hahahahahahah. I just want to get my blu ray format a nice kick start. Sony fans don't buy games anyway. Who cares who's games are better. Gods of War sold less than 2 million copies. Sony fans are too busy watching porn on the ps2's than buying great games. So this time around I said screw the game developement. I'll just make it look great on paper with all the peak performance do dads and throw in a cheaper version of my blu ray player and Walla. Sony Die hard will flock like pigeons to a loaf of bread. ahahahahahahahah... With liars like you "The Truth". Maybe we can trick some more gullable gamers. hahahahahahhahah

[The Real Deal]

lol...you did it again. You copied and pasted your Loooooooong post of your opinions mixed with your own personal lies. You never supply links for your lies and Eternal E 808 just showed why all your mumbo jumbo babble means nothing. Gears of War is still a first gen game for the 360 and blows away anything the ps3 will ever be able to do. Without xna, direct x 10, ect.... WOW...