The Hardcore: "Wii Remote sucks"

From article:
"Usually we don't talk about other sites reviews, but we have to talk about the current situation going on with gamers and their bias towards Wii controls. You may have seen the new review for Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Reflex for Wii from Game Informer. You may have read the review, and like us, may have had your jaw dropped by it and the state of gaming in general."

[ndpad]

Wonder what people will say about Sony's upcoming wand and Microsoft's Natal?

Wonder if opinions will change when they launch?

[rtonaey]

The the Wii remote sucks, the wand will suck and natal will follow suit;

Gamers don't want to sweat their butts off just to play a game that's supposed to give them satisfaction.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, This motion thing while inspiring, will go the way of the Dinosaur. It's FAIL!

[HolyOrangeCows]

LOL, Nintendo fanboy alert!

[Ju]

Nobody will play shooters on the PS3 with the wand. No idea how MS will "force" people to use Natal. But I doubt that all of a sudden the traditional controllers will disappear. Its just a "me too". Nobody want's it (I can see it for some games, but certainly not for shooters).

[kunit22c]

rtonaey, if you ever break a sweat using the Wii remote your are waaaaaaay out of shape.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Nobody will say a thing about PS3 and 360 motion controls because those aren't primary control system. The only games you'll see using those are games designed to play with it, specially in the first wave we'll see game that exist purely to justify these controls, more rarely we'll see games that work with both classic and motion controls, but a good chunk of those will be cash cows like RE5, to sell a second copy of the game for those with motion control devices, even through it could be a patch.

Ninty f*ed it up when they only think of themselves and how their in house developers wanted and was ready to use a unique form of control that would make their casual crap even more popular. I'm pretty sure Ninty didn't have gone through the research with thirdy party devs or they would have Wii bundled with both Wiimote and a classic pad, because the truth is hardcore developers don't want to use motion controls for all of their games, some would never ever want to use it, some like to develop games that don't fit motion controls. I'm pretty sure that even developers like Myiamoto and Yoshio never were asked how would they like having motion controls for primary control scheme, I doubt even those had the option to focus on classic controls for Zelda ou Metroid.

Don't get me wrong, there are good motion controlled games on the Wii, but it's not media or third party devs fault they are forced to use motion controls and I think we can all agree many of Wii games would feel better over classic controls... Blame it on Ninty!

[Shnazzyone]

I just came in here because I thought it was an anti-wii article based on the title. Now that I realize it's an editorial on the plain bias of the Game Informer review and the superiority of playing pointer based fps over dual analog I am angry! I'm gonna troll now!

[WiiJunkii]

I have lived through Wolfenstein, Doom, Goldeneye, Duke Nukem, Redneck Rampage, Hexen, Quake(s), Half Life(s) Unreal(s), Team Fortress(s) Halo(s), 85,000 War Sims... even Chex Quest (That would be the FPS that came inside of Chex Cereal Boxes >:P )

I play PC games, and I have owned just about every console released in the US since the 2600...
I need to preface this next statement with one disclaimer... I think the title of "hardcore gamer" is for R-Tards, and I wouldn't want to be associated with those blind little snots who wear that sh*t on their sleeves.

Here Goes...
For Aiming/Cursor Movement:
A customizable Wii-Remote is a small step behind a customizable Mouse. Dual-Analogue is a large step behind both.

For Character Movement:
WASD is not as precise as an Analogue Stick.

Thats really all there is to it...

You may now disagree and take my bubbles.

[N4g_null]

The funny thing is it will be forced. Success forces every thing and I hear epic is working on some thing big. Red steel 2 is worth the wAit pc mouse controls are the beSt yet wii mote is one of the best ways to controll 3d and 2d games.

Another thing is the controller works just fine side ways. Playing paper Mario is just like the 2d version unroll you point the remote At the tv. You guys Are really missing out on the magic and the sheer fun on learning excite truck controls or flying a plane to bomb the other squad on bwii.

Nmh is another reason and it keeps on going and it's not going to stop.

[Ric Flair]

.

[SpoonyRedMage]

Wah? The pointer controls are way more precise and more intuitive than dual analogs.

I like the Wiimote but for some games it just makes more to use a normal controller like for fighting games.

I hate waggle though... which has become a lot less common now. Early Wii games were full of badly implemented motion controls.

[Product]

Agreed, waggle was never a great idea. It was used well in games like NMH and Madworld, but just shaking the remote is not immersive imo.

Glad to see more games lately using it more wisely.

[SpoonyRedMage]

Yer, they used it sparingly but compare them to game like Soul Calibur: Legends or even the port of Okami, you have to attack ALOT and yet they tied attacks to the motion controls instead of a button... not a good idea.

I don't think any of the recent games I've played have used waggle like that but there is an increase in use of the pointer...

[Chris399]

Whatever the name of that action/ rpgish sorta one was for the Wii.

That game made your wrist ACHE like nothing else. It was all waggle. Brutal on the forearms. And this wasn't any Wii Motion Plus stuff either, just pure, spastic flailing.

But yes, the pointer interface is remarkable. The waggle not so much.

[Shnazzyone]

Soul Caliber was very much "shake it like a british nanny!" game in it's battles. God I hated that.

[Goomba12]

hmm...interesting read though i wish people would get the picture out of their head that you cant rest the remote on your knee instead of always thinking you have to have arms fully extended when playing.

[Smacktard]

The wiimote does suck...

when it's not implemented into the game correctly. I'll take my Mercury Meltdown Revolution, Geometry Wars: Galaxies, and Boom Blox Wiimote controls any day though, thanks.

[ChickeyCantor]

Bad control implementation = bad control implementation.
Not just for the Wii-mote. Goes for any controller.

[Smacktard]

Oh, of course. I was going to say that, but I thought it would be implied. But I think it goes without saying that the Wii suffers from terrible control implementation more so than any other console. Again, not technically a fault of the Wiimote, but of lazy/stupid developers.

[ChickeyCantor]

Well the hypocricy lies high with the "core" crowd.
Watch them love and orgasm over the "wand" and "nathal".

[ndpad]

It is funny how many peopel prolly think this is a negative article against the Wii....until the read it. :)

I agree with you btw.

[Ju]

I can't see that. At least not for the PS3. I can somehow agree with the "Natal fanboys" (lol). MS rides the hype train and they follow suite. PS3 wand is an option, not a requirement (that said, it will have the least success out of the three because it won't be forced).

And, until that's out, PS3 won't need the wand anymore anyways.

[ChickeyCantor]

" I can't see that. At least not for the PS3. I can somehow agree with the "Natal fanboys" (lol). MS rides the hype train and they follow suite. PS3 wand is an option, not a requirement"

Actually some games shall be dedicated to the Wand, just like some games are dedicated to the eye-toy.
Speaking of which, you need an eye-toy.

So no i disagree, it goes for both sides.

[Ju]

Sure thing. Like some games are dedicated to the wii-fit board or Buzz-Quiz or Guitarr Hero or Rockband.

But that's nothing new. Those games will either require a new peripheral or will possibly be bundled with it. But that's doesn't mean it will be bundled with the console itself. If that would be the case, it would be either Wand/Natal - or controller (basically because of cost reasons). This won't fly, I am certain.

[YLOD Service Tech]

Next in line to suck just as much is the PlayStation 3 fairy wand.

[RROD Service_Rep]

which is followed by the controller less natal, which will suck more than both

[wxer]

""The Hardcore: "Wii Remote sucks"""

maybe because its not aimed toward the hardcore ????

[ChickeyCantor]

" maybe because its not aimed toward the hardcore ???? "

And you know this how?
I have the idea that people like you think that the control interface needs to be difficult to to be "hardcore".
People like you have no sense for control interfaces.

[BISHOP-BRASIL]

Au contrair... Hardcore controls are totally functional, as easy to access as possible, ergonimic and quick layout. That's the reason we use buttoms instead of imprecise movement track.

That said, Wiimote can be aimed at hardcores, but for games that work well with it only.

You can't get a hack'n'slash player, that is used with the best games of the industry for the last ten year, to play waggling around or pointing at what he wants to kill. The same goes for fighting, sports or platforming games, fans will feel it feeling awkward.

But if you try MMORPG or strategy fans, they will probably prefer the pointer and fewer buttom presses to a game pad any day. Point and click adventures and many "mini games" work very well too.

Some genres, like FPS, RPG, Adventure and Racing, won't necessarily gain or loose anything from motion, so I doubt hardcores would have a problem directly with it, just up to good old preference.

The problem here, regardless of hardcore or casual, is that Wiimote don't work wonders with everything like ninty and some here would like to belive. Pads and K&M suffer the same problem, just on a smaler scale, they sometimes don't feel right but not usually make anything unplayable or realy unconfortable to play.

If you sum up this bigger dead zone the motion controls present, the fact that it work perfectly with most so called casual games, stupid prejudice and the fact that Ninty made motion controls a requirement, you can clearly see why the so called hardcore "hate" the Wii, but it's really not a case of "Wiimote being aimed at casuals" as it's "Ninty screwed up by making it a requirement".

[WiiJunkii]

Every time I shoot them bi***es in the face in MoH Heroes, and The Conduit... and I gotta say it's painfully accurate and tactilly satisfying to point at something and shoot it.

that was an... um... play on "Wii-Remote is not Aimed at the Hardcore"

sorry...

[ChickeyCantor]

"Hardcore controls are totally functional,"

This is the problem, they are not hardcore controllers, they were all made with the idea of unintuitive input that was best at that time era. They never did this for " hardcore gamers "

[GuruStarr78]

I just bought a wii earlier this week......I'm really diggin it.....Of course, I already have a 360, PS3, PSP and DSi...Ive been gaming for over 25 yrs.
The wii, much like the other systems has only a handful of good games....If you look at PS3 or 360, theres really only about 5 "great" games that really warrant a purchase for each of their respective systems, i.e. Halo, Uncharted, etc....etc....
Its really no different for the Wii....myself, I picked up Punch out (Im old school), No more heroes, and Madworld.....I dont expect a ton of great games, to be honest, I beleive most consoles only have about 5 great titles during their lifespan...its really no different for Wii, hopefully, red steel 2 and the next zelda will be done right and who knows, there might be some sleepers.....until then, the wii is "FUN" and a great way to get your girlfriend playing games.....the wii sports titles are also a great way to get girls to come back to your bachelor pad....have you ever tried the line "wanna come back to my place and play bowling on wii?".....it works, it really does...LOL

[matey]

look i have 2 classic pros for games like tatsunoko vs capcom and when i want to play the inferior way on pro evo 2010 plus there are lots of games that are better with classic pro got all my black stuff yesterday its amazing the wiimote is more hardcore than a pad all day who are these hardcore im hardcore played games all my life i dont own a console with pads as the standard its a load of rubbish anyone that beleives this rubbish is thick or a bit slow the wii doesnt have the best games at the moment but when the big 2010 comes then wii will own its the best console with the worst games at the moment joint with ps3 in the games got the few proper games and thats it i own wii and i will get the wiiHD aswell but wiimote nunchuck are a much better hardcore package than a pad grow the hell up guys

[Samus HD]

with wii motion plus is 100% COMPLETED///// if you havent wii motion plus than order it cuz is really realistik and fun

[Sir Ken_Kutaragi]

...the controls just spoiled every game for me :-/ I didn't like it at all. I for one won't be supporting any Motion control from anyone. So fight all you want fanboys ;-D i won't be joining the Project A-NAL/PS3 Wand 'WAR'!!! ;-D (The PS3 Wand looks better tho) ;)

[Trevorthenerd]

You own a wii do you?

[Quadrix]

I wouldn't say the Wii Remote sucks, but devs sure as hell suck at implementing it properly. Which is sad, because it's not that hard to create a good set of gesture controls.

Take a first-person shooter, for instance. A good set of gesture-based controls could possibly be:

1: Thrust the Wii Remote forward for a melee attack
2: Press and hold the Z button to arm a grenade, then swing the Nunchuk overhand while releasing Z at the right time to throw (sort of like casting a fishing rod). Or, you can just hold Z and release to drop a grenade at your feet while running to escape from a pursuer.
3. And finally, using the Wii Remote's IR pointer to aim your weapon.

It's that simple.

[lizard81288]

well, i have the Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Reflex game. i normally hate FPS, but it got good reviews so i thought i'd check it out. the controls are good, and fully customizable.i spent about an hour or so getting them just right.i'm only halfway through the 2nd mission, and i still find myself being nit-picky. it acts like a mouse, so saying the wiimote sucks(in this game), would be like saying an fps on the computer sucks.

[Kisama]

“using the Wii Remote as a pointer for first-person shooters sucks.”
Wow, you're an idiot. Enjoy your primitive dual analog sticks, douchebag.

[eagle21]

I wish the Wii WINS even more seeing such BS articles as this. :)

[asdr3wsfas]

The wii remote gives both position and speed. The position on the screen maps to where you move and the speed in changing it is measured and applied. joysticks and dual analog give change in position only - it always resets to the default. You can prove the dual analog is less accurate this way.

Hey, I played FPS since Doom II, dual analog is a joke and all hardcore fps players on consoles use a mouse like fragfx. I still like the wiimote better but at least between a mouse and wiimote it's a matter of taste. Between dual analog and the wiimote the input is objectively less accurate.

[Bigpappy]

Why do one set of gamers care how others play a game. If you prefer to play FPS with a Wii mote that is your choice and that is what you need to buy. If you hate the idea of a Wii mote, then obviously do not get the game on the Wii. This is very simple stuff. I always play my FPS with a controller over KB and Mouse (even on PC). I however am interested in how Natal will be implemented

[lizard81288]

by tons on mini games.

[EvilTwin]

Dual analog isn't going to be obsolete; it works well for certain games. A "regular" game pad works great for fighting games, racers, some sports games, etc.

OTOH, IR/pointer works better in other games. FPS is one of them. It's faster, it's more precise, and it's more customizable. Dual analog feels clunky by comparison.

I have no idea why it's controversial to think this. I read in the GI thread that it's "opinion" on IR/pointer's superiority. It isn't opinion that it's faster and more precise. That's fact.

So why would people stick with the slower, clunkier control option?
If FPS games are a race, using dual analog is like driving a mini van on a drag strip.

Aim assist and "sticky" aiming have always been compromises -- something that dual analog had to have to make FPS controls bearable.

[hatchimatchi]

the author of the article is pathetic.

"The same reaction was given toward the D-Pad when it was released. Gamers couldn’t believe that anything other than a joystick could work for video gaming."

I don't know anyone who said that, and back when the nes was released there wasn't internet to browse or gaming mags to buy, so who is he basing this off? His friend who said it.

"...above two examples from the same publication is further proof that the “hardcore” are afraid of the Wii’s impact on gaming. To honestly base a review off of your preference of inferior controls is shocking to say the least. When the core gamer would rather have clunky, unresponsive controls rather than a pointer based system tells us things are changing."

Yes, i would much have a dual analog controller, and wii's impact on gaming. Hmmm, okay. If motion controls are so fantastic then why do wii fanboys bash sony's wand and natal so much. Because those are obviously inspired from what nintendo has done. So motion control for all games must be a good thing right?? Oh, no it's not??? Hmmm, oh i see, it's only good when it's on the wii....

/hypocrites

Motion controls are horrible, they work well for some games (lost winds) and they don't work at all for others (red steel).

[Goomba12]

First you say "I don't know anyone who said that, and back when the nes was released there wasn't internet to browse or gaming mags to buy, so who is he basing this off? His friend who said it"

If you were around and of age when the Famicon first hit the scene you would know that everyone still thought the joystick was the end all be all of gaming control. Everyone played in arcades, and that is why Nintendo even released the NES Advantage because they knew the joystick was still the preferred input of choice. Hell even the first Metroid commercial for NES had the player playing with the NES Advantage joystick because that game was aimed at the "hardcore" of the time, not kids and families.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The Nes had such a kid friendly appeal back in the 80's that EA at the time refused to back it and went the way of computer gaming.
You have to remember that arcades were where video gaming started and the first arcaes used the joystick. Thinking that the dpad was universally praised when first released on a home console would be a little niave. It seemed alright when it first appeared on the Game and Watch collections due to them being the first handhelds really at the time.

"Yes, i would much have a dual analog controller, and wii's impact on gaming. Hmmm, okay. If motion controls are so fantastic then why do wii fanboys bash sony's wand and natal so much. Because those are obviously inspired from what nintendo has done. So motion control for all games must be a good thing right?? Oh, no it's not??? Hmmm, oh i see, it's only good when it's on the wii...."

The paragraph you responded to had more to due with Game Informer editors hating wii controls and that bias lowering the score of wii reviews because of it.

Obviously analog controls are still relevant as the Wii nunchuk has one, but you have to admit that most motion controls games would be awesome if the controls were implemented better than most games are.
That is where the Wii is a mixed bag.

[Fatal Blow]

No it does not before i got my wii and had my ps3 60gb one from day 1 i was like it's fun to play that is all but now that i have the wii got it because of Tatsunoko vs Capcom and i have the jap version of this game its the best fighting game out this gen so far anyway the wii remote is a amazing thing for some games like rail shooters and has any one played no more heroes this works great with the game i for one like the wii remote its some thing different and at the same time fun