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Is Microsoft Banning More than just Pirates?

These bannings have been quite widespread, and at 1,000,000 users that is roughly 5% of the Xbox Live subscriber base. But are all those being banned, pirates? I spoke with a representative from Microsoft breifly at Major Nelson.com and learned some interesting information. Regardless of whether you modify your xbox to pirate games, or just modify it to look cooler, perform better, or last longer, these actions are against the terms of service agreement that you accept when promted to on the Xbox Live login.

So legit Xbox Users please keep this in mind, when your Xbox 360 gets the RROD a quick fix by you is not the answer. Not unless you want to be eligible for a banning. From what I gathered if the warranty seal is broken on your xbox 360 you are in violation of TOS and will be banned from Xbox Live if this is discovered......

Have you heard of someone that has been banned and never pirated a game?

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Zedux3730d ago

my friend has gone crazy lol he has modded his 360 but all he did was increase his hd to 250 gb and he got banned too lol! I told him not to buy that shiite but he said it was very cheap now the cheap became expensive lol!!!

vhero3730d ago

Him and nearly 200k people mate!

champ213730d ago

this is what happens when you fiddle with the milkbox.

ps3ftwin3730d ago

glad i never bought an xbox.

when i was out looking for a next gen console. the very unit the shop keeper was showing me for the xbox, wouldnt work because of RROD. The shop keeper was trying to convince me this isnt a common occurance, glad i didnt take the bait.

PC, PS3 are the best combo.

3730d ago
Shadow Flare3730d ago

Just a thought.....the possible 1 million people that got banned, are they going to have to buy a new 360 if they want to play online again? This combined with broken consoles not covered by warranty is just going to had to the fake total sales 360 has, with people re-buying their 360's. Unless they bought a ps3. But you can't hack the ps3

sikbeta3730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

WOW this is really crappy, and lot of people will fall in the same trap again, but for how much time M$ can so the same trick

ps3ftwin3730d ago Show
ReBurn3730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

If someone has to buy a new console because their previous console was banned for being modded then that is not a fake sale, it's a real one. It doesn't matter why someone buys more than one. Every time money goes down on the counter for a new box it's a sale, regardless of why someone buys it.

And ps3ftwin, your posts have been blaming Microsoft for the actions of shopkeepers. The shopkeeper showed you a red-ringed 360? Right. The shopkeeper wanted you to buy a battery accessory when you wanted a wired controller? Ok. Neither of those stories has anything to do with Microsoft, and the first one isn't even believable. Perhaps your attempts at trolling are better kept in the Open zone where it belongs.

Syronicus3730d ago

What Shadow was getting at is how MS talks about consoles sold = install base and we all know this is not true. Considering that there is a failure rate of 20 to 30 percent, mainly for older consoles, there is far fewer console installed base than consoles sold. I would dare venture to say that the install base of the 360 is more around the lines of 20 to 22 million.

MS more than likely needed a boost in sales for the holiday and figured it would ban the hardcore modders knowing they would run out and buy another console for 199 thus boosting their sales data for the year in competition with Sony. It's pretty smart in a way but dumb in so many others.

Typical MS, screw the consumer for their own gain in competition with Sony.

Halo3 MLG Pro3730d ago

So it's fake because one customer has bought a few 360's for whatever reason? So how many people that already owned a ps3 upgraded to a Slim??? That's what a lot of ps3 owners on this site did. I guess those are fake too.

Viper73730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

//Unless they bought a ps3. But you can't hack the ps3//

Aside from the piracy there's really little to no reason to hack the Ps3.

1. HDD can be replaced legaly and pretty easily to a much bigger one.
It doesnt mean if its made by 3rd party or some official company as both usualy work fine. Not to mention they are a lot cheaper and some have even used external pheripherals to attach a external HDD to Ps3 to get juicy 1tb+

2. Region free games -> no reason for people who want to play games from other region to mod their consoles any more.

3. Linux support on non slim systems provides some nice boost to the software side making there really no reason to crack the console for extra features such as emulators, media codecs etc.

So aside from piracy theres really no reason for normal consumers to mod their console.

Shadow Flare3730d ago

Yes thanks for clearing that up for the dunces. Think about it though; of all the times microsoft could have banned a million 360 owners, they do it when modern warfare 2 comes out. And those people can't play online. So go figure. Microsoft know exactly what they're doing. They're making those million people buy new 360's. So no, whatever the total 360 hardyard sales are, that is not the real install base. And its worse considering the failure rate of the console

@1.10

Give me one good reason to "upgrade" my b/c 60gb ps3 to a non b/c ps3 slim with 2 less usb ports and no memory card slots. Theses really no reason for an existing ps3 owner to buy a slim. Its a lot of money to spend on having a console with less features, so no your arguement isn't valid. I could always spin it back to you and ask how many 360 owners upgraded to the elite

Halo3 MLG Pro3730d ago

LOL. My argument??? It's YOUR argument. Your stating that Microsoft is being sly at trying to get these pirates to buy another console to have "fake" sales. A SALE IS A SALE BUDDY. I'm sure lots of people that owned a ps3 bought the slim. Lots of sony fans on this site have clearly said that. And I'm sure that has happen on the 360 also. If you seriously believe that the current ps3 install base is "real" and not saturated by multiple console owners than you are clearly a fool.

So don't give me this "fake" sales jazz.

Syronicus3730d ago

No problem mate. I understand exactly what you are getting at because I have not forgotten that MS was and is the same company that knowingly and willingly released a console one year early with defects. They knew the 360 had a failure rate much higher than the industry standard and yet they released it a year early to beat Sony to the market. A scam like this ban to gain a million in sales would not surprise me coming from MS. They will do anything to gain an edge over Sony in sales. You take the coming holiday season, the release of Modern Warfare 2 and the rising sales of the PS3 and you have a recipe for MS to scheme up a plan to scam the consumer out of more money for their console.

This will in fact boost the 360 sales because the console is inexpensive to replace and the fans of the 360 are willing to shell out more cash for the 360 despite the shaft they get shoved up their rear my MS every time they turn the corner.

ultimolu3730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

Wow Halo, you're in the midst of everything aren't you? I too wonder about those 360 sales as well. I don't feel sorry for pirates because stealing is wrong but it's messed up so see an innocent person try expanding their harddrive or fix their system and get banned for that.

Diamondwolf3730d ago

That corporations, especially huge corporation, you cannot put anything aside of what they can and will do to make money. This includes, Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo

commodore643730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

I have read the above comments with interest and noted that quite a number of people are opining that MS will somehow 'unfairly' quote increased sku sales as a result of people replacing their banned consoles?

Well, that may or may not be true.

However, what has NOT been considered by the comments above, is that this is a terrific opportunity for the supposedly superior ps3 to steal the same marketshare AWAY from MS!

Think about it, if the ps3 really is so much more desirable in the market place, then savvy 'banned' consumers will likely gravitate to a ps3 purchase, instead of replacing their 360s.

Wouldn't that imply that the ps3 will gain the alleged 'unfair' sales advantage?

The PS3 has dropped a massive $100 in price and it looks slim and sexy now, right?

With this logic in mind, can we agree that the ps3 is likely to benefit from marginally increased sales as much if not more than the 360 as a result of the 360 bannings?

How come you guys didn't think of that?

I sometimes feel that, no matter what, the fanboys find an angle to bash and disparage MS no matter what a realistically balanced view might suggest!

frostypants3730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

Banning people for pirating is legit. I am fully behind MS on that.

BUT...banning people for non-spec hard drives is absolutely criminal. I guess MS wants people to spend $100 on the "official" 60GB drives or $150 for the 120gb ones. Nevermind the fact that $60 should buy you a 2.5" drive with 300gb+ of space (translation: PS3 owners are getting nearly 3 times the space for less than half the price). Microsoft is selling obsolete-capacity drives at a ridiculous premium, for what? The plastic case they stick it in?

Oh, and need more space? "TOUGH SH**!", according to Microsoft. You have to buy multiple (grossly overpriced) drives and interchange them.

I was helping a buddy shop for a 360 this week and was not previously aware that this stuff was still priced so ridicuously. I was in utter shock.

Also, want a wireless adapter? The same crappy adapter they've had for years is STILL $100!!! Are you effing kidding me? THIS is the company you 360 fanboys are so gung ho about?!

People can say what they will about Live and its price scheme...but there is NO EXCUSE for the lengths Microsoft goes to to rip people off on accessories.

One thing I can say about my PS3: it never made me feel like I was voluntarily allowing myself to be robbed.

Sorry, rant over. This ordeal just completely took me off guard...I just don't see why people try to defend this kind of garbage on MS's part.

Edit: LOL at phantom disagree. I only stated facts. You guys are paying $150 for a 120GB hard drive. The market price for 2.5" disk drives (which is what MS is selling you) is around 20 cents/meg. You are paying $1.25/meg. You are being robbed blind. You don't "disagree", you just don't like what I have to say.

jaysquared3730d ago

You guys are correct that sales does not equal install base.. But that's with any console.. I love how many Sony fans always bring up there were 150 million plus PS2 console sold so Sony has a fan base of 150 million people which is completely wrong!! I'm pretty sure the PS2 had an install base of 75 million with a lot of people upgrading to the slims or just replacing their broken console.. So it goes both ways!

jav09183730d ago

The majority of these bans aren't modders its terms of service violations and rules violations. You can get banned for having the word SH!T on your profile...I know I got a 2 week ban for having it a while back.

beardpapa3730d ago

A sale is a sale. There is no such thing as a fake sale.

The only problem with the tactic of getting the consumer to re-purchase items is that the user base doesn't increase.

So with that in mind, for example, it is possible to have 2000 units sold with only a user base of 500 - which of course represents poor marketshare.

JD_Shadow3730d ago

I just don't get why Microsoft is THIS willing to suddenly shoot themselves in the foot like that, especially when Sony seems to have everything going their way right now. They need to bring in new users, not alienate people they already have by making them inflate their sales numbers more (here we go again with THAT).

And wow, Halo, are you THAT ready to defend Microsoft?

WildArmed3730d ago

wow thats extremely ghey.
I understand pirates.. but people who buy accessory other then M$s should not be subject to ban.
Thats just plain stupid.
Give us all your money or we'll take our Live back -.-

+ Show (20) more repliesLast reply 3730d ago
RememberThe3573730d ago

It kind of sucks cuz if your 360 messes up and you fix it, you end up getting banned. So no matter what, if you RROD, your screwed.

Syronicus3730d ago

Microsoft = big brother...

Big brother says hi 'yall!

Sorry to hear about those that are not pirates getting banned but this is not new information from the big brother clan. They own your Xbox, if you don't believe me, just try and fix it yourself or have a third party do it. When you get banned, you will trust me on this.

jerethdagryphon3730d ago

this isnt the first ave of bannings either, and as ive said ms hasnt increased there instal base by more then a million or so this gen

28 million sold - 25 million original xbox owners going with new tech = 3 million

3 million divided by say 4, to give a 25% failure rate, is .75 million, if this is the number who have bought a replacment colsoles and traded in the refubed one when it came or the one they bought.

leaving 2.25 million, if a further .75 million bought a elite and traded in there pro or arcade or what not when it came out thats 1.5 million

1.5 million say half were banned xboxes for pirating thats another .75 million replaced leaving only

750000 new sales so far.

rough math but it holds on a ratio to whom i know and what ive seen at gamestores.

jaysquared3730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

You should do the math for how much PS2s istall base was because so many Sony fans believe there are 150 million Sony fans because there were that many that bought the PS2! When technically i believe there are probably just 60-75 million actual PS2 owners with many upgrading to the slims and replacing old broken consoles as well..

plstcsldgr3730d ago

you're going to tell me that every one and their brother didn't have a PS2? every one i know or ever known had a ps2.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3730d ago
FanboyAttack3730d ago

I know I had a friend who was fixing a RROD during the bans and got banned. Crazy.

jerethdagryphon3730d ago

ok ps2 numbers it only had 2 ieterations
ps1 refernces based off of vgchartz as other data is unavalable
120million known sold.
-20 million ps1 users upgrading =100million

100million/5= 20% failure rate could be higher but most were dres nad easily fixed

20million from failed replaced leaving 60 million valid/3 =20million 33% of the remaining upgraded, based off of fodness for the fat and fears of overheating on the slim

leaves 40 million growth from ps1-ps2 new customers

working that insto ps3
27 million- the brand loyals 20 million=7 million

7- last versions growth of 40 million = -33million ps2 users still to decide,

rough math of course

i for one do not think theres 100 million ps2 people waiting to buy one. but i do tihnk total sales of all consoles are not what the numbers show with the exception of wii which has a 30 million new user rate so far

Noob3730d ago

So they're banning people that try to fix their 360 when it's out of warranty?

siyrobbo3730d ago

only if you do the 12v fan mod, as they can see the fans using the extra juice.

I thought MS were fixing 360's regardless of warranty?

I just sent back my 3 and a half year old console and they sent me a replacement without so much as batting an eyelid

vhero3730d ago

any fixes you do yourself as MS can tell if its them who didn't fix your console its quite easy to tell if your consoles been tampered with. So yeah if your consoles out of warranty and you get it fixed somewhere cheaper than MS you get screwed.

ReBurn3730d ago

MS can only tell if you've changed your hardware configuration or updated the firmware on any device. Things like the X-Clamp so far aren't detectable via the hash that gets transmitted to Microsoft when you log in to Live.

If you swap a fan or add a device that draws more power than spec they're going to see that. If you update the firmware on your hard drive or DVD drive, they're going to see that. They're not going to detect re-soldered contacts as long as the components are original.

tommat933730d ago

I'm not sure that they can detect firmware. I know three people with modded consoles and only two got banned and the guy who didn't has had his for the longest. The two who did also both played pirated games way before their release (one was ODST and the other MW2).

Whilst I agree they should ban these pirates I don't really agree on what they're doing with the banned consoles. According to this site: http://www.xbox360-hacks.co... they are basically destroying the basic functionalities of your 360. So if all you did was mod it for more HDD space or fix a RRoD then that Xbox is rendered useless. I'm sure "if you don't follow these rules we will f*ck your Xbox 360 up the arse" wasn't in the ToC.

It seems to be getting as bad as the DRM on Spore and the like. We no longer own the Xbox, instead we just own the right to use it. Legally speaking, we should have the right to do whatever the f*ck we want with the Xbox we paid for. It wouldn't surprise me if they started banning people for using their 360 round a friend's house...

hmmmm3730d ago

"Legally speaking, we should have the right to do whatever the f*ck we want with the Xbox we paid for"

you can do what you want with your xbox as long as you only use it offline..But if you are going to be using it on Xbox Live which is Microsofts service then you must use your xbox in its original condition with no mods which is what it states in the ToS you agree to when you sign up to Xbox live

frostypants3730d ago

@4.4: You DO have the right to do what you want with your Xbox. MS also has the right to block you from their online service. So does Sony. The PROBLEM is that MS encourages you to violate their TOS by blatantly ripping you off on hard drive space (i.e., you could use your own, but they check for it). Sony, on the other hand, let's you use any hard drive. And since PS3s are fairly reliable, there's little reason to break it open.

The difference is that the 360 gives you every reason to violate their TOS. You almost have to if you want to avoid being screwed by MS bad quality and overpriced hard drives...but if you do, they still screw you via Live. In other words, thy screw you no matter what you do.

tommat933730d ago (Edited 3730d ago )

@4.5 & 4.6

Yes, I understand that this is in the ToS you agree to. I however still think it shouldn't be in the ToS. Maybe something along the lines of 'don't modify your console in a way which allows illegal activities' would be alright, but not letting people use their service and mod their 360's legally isn't exactly fair. There were quite a lot of third-party companies making HDD's and memory cards for the 360 that have now had their sales cut because MS banned third-party stuff.

Also, what about the people who use back-ups legally? They have a legal right to, but now if they do they 360 will be rendered useless as all the saves they access will be corrupted (see link in my last post).

How typical of MS to screw the customer over for their own gain.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3730d ago
FanboyAttack3730d ago

Thats what the guy told me.. he said its against the Terms of Service, and that it could get you banned.