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What console gamers don't understand about dedicated servers

Way of the Gamer writes: "I see a lot of console gamers talking about PC gamers and their problem with MW2's loss of dedicated servers. I even see some of them attacking PC gamers and almost backing up Wards choice to drop the dedicated servers. When I see that it's clear they simply don't understand. So I thought I would clear that up and explain not only some of the differences between dedicated servers and peer to peer (P2P) hosting but also the fact that consoles have taken gaming back a step in some ways, ways that console gamers don't realize. In many cases console gamers simply have taken many things to be the standard of gaming today when in fact they are very similar to issues they plagued gaming the 90's."

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Darkeyes3272d ago

So true... All games should support dedicated servers. At least big house games from EA and Activision all should have DS... They earn millions (billions in AVs case) and still don't support the most important thing..

JsonHenry3272d ago

I agree man. Console gamers get an even bigger shaft (in most cases) because they don't even know what their ping actually is. Instead they get these bars akin to a cell phone letting you know if your connection is full bars or 1 bars. Which a full set of green bars is arbitrary. It could mean your ping is anywhere from 1-150, you don't know. And you KNOW these companies make it so that a green ping probably scales WAY ABOVE what should be considered an "excellent" connection.

In the end, ALL gamers regardless of console or PC should DEMAND dedicated server support. I am not saying that the companies themselves should provide the dedicated servers, but they should at least give dedicated server support to the consumer should they decide to invest in a dedicated server to get the best online gameplay available.

njr3272d ago

They'll do anything to save that extra penny. Gamers shouldn't accept that.

Blaze9293272d ago

Don't EA games run on their dedicated servers? You can't even play their games online unless you connect to their server (which they like to shut down after 90 days notice...assholes).

Chubear3272d ago

They ideally would but MS has their way of doing things and they can't have P2P for 360 games and dedicated servers for PS3 games cause they're trying to make multiplat games look equal.

The real meat is when you look at exclusives that dont' have any limitations. You look at all the high end online games on the 360 like Halo & Gears and they run on P2P. You look at the high end online games on the PS3 like KZ2, UC2 etc and they run on dedicated servers.

Consoles are set up differently from PC where online is concerned, obviously, but Sony has found a very neat way where ping isn't really a big factor at all with their online games which is neat cause virtually every PS3 gamers can go online and have a good experience regardless of their ping... unless your ping is atrocious but even then..

Darkeyes3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

@blaze Dunno man?? Haven't really bought many EA games this gen apart from Dead Space... But will get Battlefield Bad company 2 when it comes out. It's supporting DS I guess (again correct me if wrong).

JsonHenry3272d ago

@Chubear -

How exactly in your expert opinion (sarcasm) can you have a high ping on the PS3 when compared to the same high ping of say the 360 or PC and have a better experience?

A high ping is a high ping - regardless of the format you are using to play online..

gaffyh3272d ago

@Chu - yeah Jason is right, ping is based on how long it takes for a packet to be sent to a computer and back to yours. So if the ping is the same for both P2P and dedicated, there is no difference in your gaming experience. Although, I doubt that P2P would ever have a lower ping than dedicated servers.

raztad3272d ago

I know first and second party games on the PS3 use dedicated servers. KZ2 runs really smooth, I never experienced game disconnections and that ugly stuff.

SH3MRON3272d ago

..but since they are making millions of this franchise why the need. They will not put the money or effort to support DS for a game they only want to last for a year before the next one comes in. They are in here for the money and not the player experience and since IW will not support this they just don't care about us.

Revvin3272d ago

If you have a ridiculously high ping then there's not a lot you can do about it but companies have their own ways of working with latency by employing degree's of prediction/smoothing code. When you have a closed system as Microsoft and Sony does its easier to standarize and improve that especially when the service works primarily as a P2P service.

toaster3272d ago

I hate when I come into posts late. People already said the good stuff.

:(

Guido3272d ago

Somebody will write an article that explains "Entitlement".

BattleAxe3272d ago

I guess the author of the article has never played Socom where its been dedicated servers on both the PS2 and PS3. BUT SERIOUSLY, why would IW care about whining PC gamers when so many PC gamers pirate video games...... besides, either you are a CoD fan or you're not.

corneliuscrust3272d ago

**xbox360 supports dedicated servers just like Ps3 (eg Frontlines)

It is up to the devs, and unfortunately, most companies won't dish the extra resources to keep them running.

DaTruth3272d ago

What does he mean console gamers? I think we all know which console gamers he is referring to! I never really played an online game that didn't have dedicated servers, but that is because almost all(if not all) Sony first party games support dedicated servers!

PS3 gamers complain if the game doesn't have dedicated servers.

@PC gamers: We feel for you guys!

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 3272d ago
Nicaragua3272d ago

Im pretty sure some PS3 games have dedicated servers (Warhawk, MGO).

Some of teh points he makes are valid but again the one about naming the host game applies to games i play on my PS3. MGO and Killzone 2 allow you to name your game, didnt realise other games didnt do this.

Bodyboarder_VGamer3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Talking about Warhawk, I just don't understand how that game works... Because I can create a room in Resistance 2 and play with 60 people with no problem but when I play Warhawk I make a room but then, the amount of players that can play there depends on my connection speed...

To tell you the truth I do not think that game has such thing as dedicated servers.

Chubear3272d ago

Haven't read the article but I just I'd respond to what your comment though.

ALL PS3 exclusive in ouse games online are on dedicated servers. Something like KZ2 uses both Dedicated servers 7 P2P to make sure they cover all bases for a smoother experience cause of all the resources it uses in rendering the game. If it used only dedicated servers there are pockets where problematic issues could arise from point to point; if it used only P2P is would be virtually unplayable.

You'll only find P2P on PSN for certain small PSN games like High Stakes Poker.

Chubear3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Yes, WarHawk runs on dedicated servers. You can find pics of them on the net.

Remember, WH is a 1st gen game and it handles it's online experience a bit differently than others do. They pick the best option they feel suits their fanbase and they implement it.

You'll see a much better system used for StarHawk.

BYE3272d ago

Kinda funny that PSN has dedicated servers and is free, while on XBox you have to pay and still only get P2P.

Blaze9293272d ago

Kinda funny...Left 4 Dead 2 has dedicated servers on the Xbox 360...but wait, games on the 360 don't support dedicated servers; only P2P for all the games!

But wait theres more! Call of Duty 4 on the PS3...is P2P! But all ps3 games on PSN are dedicated servers are they not!?

It's the same boat for both systems so just cut it out. There are some P2P and some dedicated server games on both platform's services. PS3 just has it standard with it's first party published games...at least some of them. I don't understand how Socom launched so bad online.

Chubear3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

If MS made online gaming for for all but kept it's social networking features for only Gold members, their Gold subscription base would plummet. That's just shows it's the gaming part of online service people are interested in and not socializing features.

This why people have been baffled about how the 360 base pay for online gaming. They dont' actually pay for gaming element online but rather for social features.

When gamers go online to game they want to actually play a game and not really chat. If the excuse for Live being better than PSN is cause of a couple of social networking features then that's looney cause you go online to game and you just judge the gaming part of online as priority not the socializing features.

@2.5
Socom:Con launched bad cause of the developer crew that handled that game. They were relatively new and it was their first large PS3 game and they obviously had issues raising to a bigger level. It took them forever to get things functioning right.

@2.7
what the hell are you babbling about? You're not making any sense.

NaiNaiNai3272d ago

XBL is more or less better for 1 reason.

My games will never be shut down.

Unlike ps3 games which just like ps2 dedicated servers will be shut down to save money.

Free server = limited time offer online.

silvacrest3272d ago

thats only good if you come back to the game or play it indefinitely which i doubt either is true for most people and at the same time microsoft or whatever 3rd party publisher is losing money keeping the online part of the game alive

thor3272d ago

Wow there really is some confusion amongst console gamers about dedicated servers... by "dedicated server support" we don't mean that Sony (or whoever) have set up a batch of servers somewhere to host games, we just mean is it possible to set up a dedicated server yourself. Killzone 2 supports the ability to set up any game you like - I don't think it's possible to set up your own dedicated server, however. Warhawk does as well, but you become the host so the max # of players depends on your connection speed. But you don't have to be playing in order to host, hence people can set up dedicated servers (as Sony have done) on an awesome connection and nobody has host advantage... furthermore this server can be heavily customized by whoever runs it.

NexGen3272d ago

@2.9: Uh Thor, I hate to disagree, but when a console user creates a match at home and hosts it on his console, that is not considered a dedicated server. In fact, that's the very definition of "peer to peer".

Dedicated means that the connection and processing is reserved for nothing but that game or operation. At home, if I am hosting a match and have people joining it, my connection and ultimately everyone's gameplay can be affected by my connection being used for other things. If someone is watching Youtube, downloading files, streaming Netflix, etc. all these things will detract from the game and those connected to it. Dedicated has nothing else on the connection but that one thing.

Arnon3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

"ALL PS3 exclusive in ouse games online are on dedicated servers."

That's incorrect. Uncharted 2's online servers are NOT dedicated servers.

mastiffchild3272d ago

There's just more games with dedicated servers on PSN than Live-doesn't mean by many or that Live has none or that all on PSN have them at all.

There's just a few more on PSN and that's it-it's a little odd but it's yrue. As for Warhawk it does have dedicated servers BUT I think you can also do P2P as well-IIRC isn't there even a triphy avaiable for hosting matches for a certain length of time? I might be wrong or mistaken but that's how I remember it.

Console gamers aren't as clueless as the article makes out, though, and there's also a little ignorance and arrogance going in the other direction-PC gamers(and I game on all platforms)can't half underesyimate console gamers and gaming and just look at console gamers as willing shills for the manufacturers because of the crappy deal they get, but it isn't that simple. Many console gamers do so because of the simplicity, reliability and out of the box worry free gaming-whether PC gaming for you is expensive as you like to keep upgrading or you do it more reasonably I know that it's not as egalitarian as console gaming and can also be just a more demanding way of gaming(and yes, more rewarding because of it AND because of the things like mods that we've been used to for an age on PC).

I say more egalitarian because with a console nline session it's likely that everyone's using the same everything whereas on PC that's not the case and the little things that you do with your rig and controller set up can give you a decent advantage over the next guy-to be nobest I quite like the feeling that it's more me doing well rather than me either doing badly or well on PC because of our kit and opn a console I feel the playing field is much more even. There's pros and cons both ways is what I'm saying and the fact is that we should really drop the PC attitude that console gamers are MS/Sony tools and drop the console view that PC gamers are all arrogant and want things for nothing.

We're ALL gamers whether we play a DS or a £3000 rig and the devs/pubs/console makers must love the way we divide ourselves and even stand up for them over our fellow gamer. We have to be among the worst treated bunch of consumers there are these days-we#'re very underappreciated by the companies in gaming and if we were more untied as a whole community that wouldn't be the case. I'm not talking about a sense of entitlement but just for more treatment of a reasonable kind and less BS coming from devs etc that we're asked to swallow(the BS that IW give as a reason for killing the PCs dedicated servers springs to mid from this week and the way some people will even excuse RROD because of their love for MS-if we swallow this crap what we get treated like in future will be even worse, no?)on a weekly basis.

The day we all become gamers first rather than platform specific gamers is the first step but it doesn't look very likely to me stm. We, as a community, really need to grow up a little, ignore the differences between us and realise that we're basically on the same side and when that happens we'll all be better off and can stop being treated like fools by the industry(which, FFS, some of us seem to support more than our fellow gamer through some severely misplaced loyalty-not that it's wrong to have brand loyalty or be a fan of a certain dev and their games but we shopuldn't support every little thing they do and even make their spin when they're in the wrong.

thor3272d ago

Yes but I can (if I want) set up a connection just for warhawk, set up a PS3 and get it to run a dedicated server. Obviously connections can be shared with other services - but this is always true. Warhawk however supports the ability to host without playing yourself. This is certainly dedicated server support.

NexGen3271d ago

That really is still not the same thing man...it is "dedicated" because you choose not to browse the web, or whatever. But, its your PS3, and therefore not a server, and just because you are hosting a match but not playing doesn't make it so...it is still your PS3. What you have there is a peer hosted game, where you just so happen to not be playing and you have decided it is dedicated because you are not using the connection for anything else.

A long and far cry from anything remotely like a dedicated server.

JustTheFactsMam3271d ago

Keep talking. Just be aware that like the guy in the article you don't understand what your talking about in regards to P2P and dedicated servers.

If you did you wouldn't have made the statements you did. Anything can be a dedicated server. Anything. Even an iPhone could be run as a dedicated server for other iPhone games. It has nothing to do with horsepower. Maybe when you understand why that is you should speak again on the subject of dedicated servers. Otherwise your just blowing hot air up everyone's shorts.

In fact Warhawk in particular does dedicated servers and player hosted servers. What's the difference? You tell me. And yes even you can run either one of them on your PS3 at home.

And here's a real mind bender for you (because you don't really understand it) it even mixes in P2P while in both of those modes. How is that even possible? Nextgen scratches his head and heads to Google.

NexGen3271d ago (Edited 3271d ago )

@2.15: I don't know what I need Google for, peer hosting is pretty clearly not the same thing as a company hosted server. Sorry if that's difficult for you to figure out.

See that picture they have for the article? That's what my PS3 looks like. It's great, I can host 1000 players at once, compared to the usual 6-12 your PS3 "dedicated server" can host. Oh, also, my internet connection is far larger than yours, sorry to say. I use an OC48 to feed 15 of those monster PS3's (that can host 1000ish players, each) with a steady 2.5g/bit down (and more importantly) UPSTREAM.

How even are your ups and downs? Cable? DSL? Fiber? Oh, that's terrible, they are not even, not even close. Your "dedicated PS3 server" doesn't even provide high speed upstreams - which would be feeding all your users directly. So sad. My big rig up there can handle it all.

Please, if you want just the facts, understand that there is a large difference between a real dedicated server, and your PS3 at home hosting a Warhawk game when you're not viewing the interwebz.

Edit: Thank you for the tip of this new-fangled Google thing, I will use it in the future. Specifically regarding Warhawk, I have found this old gem:

http://blog.us.playstation....

Of interest: "In addition to players being able to host their own servers, 32-player “dedicated” servers for your clan practices or 24-player “player” servers, SONY has made a great commitment to all of our Warhawk players by staging Warhawk Server clusters similar to this one all over the world."

Translation for you: Even Sony knows there is a difference between their dedicated Warhawk servers, and your home PS3 servers.

If you have any more questions, feel free to ask. I'm sure that I can use this new "Google" fad and the power of the interwebz to find whatever it is that you don't know.

And, to conclude. It's NexGen, but I'm sure you'll remember now.

JustTheFactsMam3271d ago (Edited 3271d ago )

LMAO. You still don't get it.

What you see there is a cluster of dedicated servers. Each dedicated server is hosting ONE game with up a max of 32 players. People play in one game at a time.

Those are the official dedicated servers .. IOW the dedicated servers that aren't running from peoples living rooms and are considered to be unofficial.

The bandwidth your so infatuated with is so they can have MULTIPLE dedicated servers hosting MULTIPLE games from the same data center. Of course the bandwidth has to be greater for all those machines. So take your OMG bandwidth number and divide it by all those machines to get the bandwidth that each dedicated server has available. People with high speed uploads in place like Japan, some places in the States and Europe have no problem running the same 32 dedicated player setup as Sony. No Problem. And do so everyday.

Like I said you didn't know what your were talking about and regurgitating someone else's quote that you didn't actually understand isn't going to help you.

It's right in front of you in this quote. They explicitly say exactly WHAT I TOLD YOU. You can host your OWN servers and there are TWO types - 32 player dedicated servers and 24-player hosted servers. LIKE I TOLD YOU.

Of interest: "In addition to players being able to host THEIR own servers, 32-player “dedicated” servers for YOUR clan practices or 24-player “player” servers,"

In ADDITION to what you can do at home they are providing official servers as well ...

"SONY has made a great commitment to all of our Warhawk players by staging Warhawk Server clusters similar to this one all over the world."

The "this one" is referring to the picture.

I notice you still haven't explained the key elements between P2P vs dedicated servers or dedicated and player-hosted servers. Because you didn't know what your talking about. And Google isn't going to help you without comprehending the basics if your not willing to actually learn something.

NexGen3271d ago

I don't know if you can't read, or just choose not to. Even they distinguish between player hosted servers and their own servers, which they are calling "dedicated".

I don't even see the point in debating with you, since you change your points midway through the discussion. That's fine, have a good day.

JustTheFactsMam3271d ago

Your the one that can't read or comprehend. Your just parroting. The only person that changed the subject was you. Flip flopping between company hosted and dedicated servers as if they meant the same thing.

And you still haven't explained the differences .. because once again you don't know what your talking about. So you can't. Those who can do. Those who can't pretend.

"In addition to players being able to host THEIR own servers, 32-player “DEDICATED” servers for YOUR clan practices or 24-player “player” servers". It's right there in black and white for anyone that can read.

You think Sony setup all those servers just for MY little old clan practice. And since there is no reservation system for my clan on an official server how would that work exactly if they were talking about their servers.

Unlike you I've actually played Warhawk. Unlike you I only speak when I know what I'm talking about.

NexGen3271d ago

So you did see the part where Sony distinguishes between their dedicated servers, and how they are specifically not the same as the player servers, right? You quoted it, so I assume you actually read it, too.

Check the article, you will understand that there is a difference between Sony's dedicated servers and the player hosted ones. No, really, it's ok to read an article and understand something.

JustTheFactsMam3270d ago (Edited 3270d ago )

The quote that is talking about the dedicated servers you can set up in your own living room.

But hey if you won't believe me maybe you will believe SONY and everyone else that also knows what they are talking about. Everyone except you.

http://warhawk.wikia.com/wi...

Clan player-created server - These are always shown in white or red text. For info on how clan servers work, click here. These come in 2 varieties:

Clan Player Server - The server creator/host is also playing in the game. There is an advantage to this, they experience no lag.

Clan Dedicated Server - The server creator/host is not playing in the game.

In a Dedicated server, the creator does not play in-game, nor can they see what is happening in-game. However, a Dedicated server allows 32 players (if your connection is good enough), whereas a "Player" server (where the creator does play) allows only 24.

http://playstation.custhelp...

Player
Select this option if you plan to join the game that you're about to created.

Dedicated
Select this option to use your PLAYSTATION®3 computer entertainment system as a dedicated server for unranked Warhawk games. Note you will not be able to play in the game if you chose this option.

Dedicated Ranked
Just like Dedicated except that the games you host are ranked games that contribute to players' Leaderboard positions

Just like I told you. You know why the Official servers host a maximum of 32-players. Because they are the same as the one in your living room. A Dedicated PS3 server. The Official ones are just always set to Ranked.

Next time now what your talking about. We both know you didn't answer the question because you couldn't. Oh wait now Sony and everyone else is wrong as well.

"A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence."

+ Show (18) more repliesLast reply 3270d ago
dirthurts3272d ago

About the price hike, and the server issue. If they hadn't jacked up the price I wouldn't care so much.

BX813272d ago

That guy is a complete tard! He just talks like an idiot!

4point7BillionLoss3272d ago

Sony is a black hole sucking in money and all we got is HOME

OmarJA3272d ago

A retarded bot born every minute in this site. *Sigh*

The Killer3272d ago

sony ps3 is from the beginning of this generation supports dedicated servers but only MS loves centralized servers so they give their bot gamers a laggy and [email protected] online gaming experience and on top of all that the bots pay to play online.

truly bots got sheep brains, they dont even deserve to be called gamers. they are simply MS supporters.

likedamaster3272d ago

@4point

LOL. Sucks for them to get a taste of their own medicine.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 3272d ago
Rowsdower3272d ago

its that console gamers dont care