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Forza 3 is No Gran Turismo Carbon Copy

You may not like Turn 10 because of the lousy statements they've been making which it seems, is to cast a negative light on the GT franchise. However, respect must be given when it's due. There's a gradual progression that Turn 10's been able to manage that's not only impressive, but feels different with every Forza title. If racing is your thing, and you're on the fence considering whether to purchase this game, or should you wait to buy Gran Turismo 5 instead, we have news for you, buy both. because Forza Motor Sport is no Gran Turismo carbon copy, here's why.

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Parapraxis3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Not a carbon copy of course, but I'm sure that the Gran Turismo series has been a reference on more than one occasion.

One thing I'd like to see Turn 10 copy from PD is having RESPECT for other devs.

On a side note; the writer needs to work on their grammar, there are so many improper uses of the comma!

gamesR4fun3272d ago

heck if they could match prologue it b an improvement.

Bereaver3272d ago

I don't support school bullies, nor will a support some asshatted company.

Turn10, will never see anything developed by them, sitting in my house.

gaffyh3272d ago

It's GRAN Turismo, NOT GRAND, get it right for God's sake!!!

wxer3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

forza = GT wanabe

@1.7
we all know now whay you got 2 BBLs cus you speak alot of sh1t out of your ass

SL1M DADDY3272d ago

You're right. Forza 3 is no "Grand Turismo"... Nor is it a carbon copy of Gran Turismo. Heck, if it were half the game GT was it might be appealing to me but as of late, with the trash talk Turn 10 has been pushing, they can take Forza 3 and shove it up their poop shoots.

EvilBlackCat3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Its funny how you guys keep believing that Gran Turismo have always been a Racing Hardcore Simulator.

@gamesR4fun
1.1 - they just wish they could be
heck if they could match prologue it b an improvement.

LOL!!! I own Prologue and believe me its NOT the Sh!t Forza 2 is way better than that.

Don't even try to call your selves "Racing Simulator Enthusiast" please!

@morganfell

"Watch the difference from the racing community when GT5 launches. Night and day...night and day"

Half of the world can go behind Gran Turismo and that doesn't mean is a hardcore Simulator.

If you are goin to judge the quality of a game by his sales... Then why the hell you are always complaining about Halo series?

The only thing that CAN make GT5 better than Forza is that they give us better simulation than Forza3 BUT 1000 Cars, Nascar, Rally, "Dynamic Weather Effects", Track Editor and PS3GT fan Base & N4GPS3 Fan Base Hyping its not going to give us that. They are just distraction. "The main attractions of GT5 are distractions"

Forza 3 eclipse ALL Racing games and Racing Simulators Posers in consoles since the days of ATARI PERIOD.

Montrealien3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

lol, GranD Turismo. I tell ya, these Opinion pieces looking for hits with flame bate titles are getting worst be the month. Well it will get the attention of the tiny group of people who just read titles and to flaunt that X Title/console is better the Y Title/console.

If you make editorials aimed strictly at this sad group on N4G, you will notice that in the end they are nothing but trash traffic. Which is normal, since you wrote a Trash article. You know, like the Inquirer of gaming media.

*looks below*

Yeah morgan, and you got the pulse on the sim racing community don't you? Both Forza 3 and GT5 don't make a blip on the radar of the sim racing community. It's night and day....night an day. They play ARCA Sim Racing, GTR 2, GTR EVO/Race 07, iRacing, Live For Speed, rFactor to name a few, most serious sim racers wont even bother with Forza 3 or GT5.

morganfell3272d ago

If you notice, Forza 3 has barely amounted to a blip on the radar. It hasn't been hailed by the sim community as the second coming...or third coming for that matter.

Certainly the dev team has hyped the game (more than anyone) as well as some of the core fan base, many out of fear and desperation more than anything else. But the game has not been seen as a racing phenomena. It takes more than a few scores from reviewers to achieve that mark.

Watch the difference from the racing community when GT5 launches. Night and day...night and day.

TheBest3272d ago

It's obvious from your constant use of the caps lock button, poor grammar, incoherent sentences and the blatant lies you spew that you are below the age of 16 and have probably never driven a car in real-life, and therefore don't know how a car handles and drives in real-life.

Please, Forza 3 is an ok game, but to say it will match GT5 is idiocy of the highest degree.

Montrealien3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

No TheBest, it's his opinion, even if it a little extreme. You may not agree with him, but saying he is an idiot is against the rules of the gamer zone, there is not point in name calling.

I whole heartedly agree that what Forza has offered me in console racing the last few years has easily matched what GT has, and even surpassed in certain aspect. Imho PD kinda dropped the ball since they started this stupid waiting game with GT200/3/a-spec. And this is coming from a guy who actually bought a PS1 for GT1 and I still own my original GT1 and GT2, oh, and I own a car and have a mortgage an will be getting married in 2 months. But in your eyes, that makes me an Idiot because you don't agree with me, gj.

with that said, I cant wait for GT5, I love the Gran Turismo series even though I have become its biggest critic in the last few years.

UnSelf3272d ago

it certainly isnt GRAN Turismo

3272d ago
ultimolu3272d ago

I'm curious. Why is EvilBlackCat in the Gamerzone when most of his comments are flamebait?

On topic: I have no qualms with Turn10 but their attitude is disgusting. They should just focus on their games instead of blindly attacking Polyphony Digital.

TheBest3272d ago

I'm sorry, did you want me to treat his "opinion" with respect? No, I will not. Not when he says things like "Don't even try to call your selves 'Racing Simulator Enthusiast' please!" as well as blatant fanboyism with "Forza 3 eclipse ALL Racing games and Racing Simulators Posers in consoles since the days of ATARI PERIOD".

Oh and I called his opinion pure idiocy because it is based on just that. Basic research on current development trends for GT5 will show you how well the series will be progressing with GT5.

I mean, are your really going to go ahead and stand up for this dude? Yeah you do that ...

Montrealien3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

no the best, you see, that's where you are wrong. There is no hard line fact tha GT5 is better, just people who prefer one or the other. You think its better, and I respect that. The guy you think I was standing up for thinks Forza is the best racing game since the Atari, I mean, it would be idiotic to take that seriously. But I do stand up for his right to have an opinion. You can argue with it, but there is not need for saying he is an idiot.

I think they are both very comparable and both offer a great console racing sim experience. I mean the online alone in Forza is leaps and bounds ahead of what we have seen in the GT series, then again, the over all look of GT5 blows forza out of the water. Bottom line, they are both great and each offer great experiences for what they are trying to do, whether one is better or not is subjective.

Xbox Avatars Shoe3272d ago

You can't be a "copy" if you pale in comparison.

HolyOrangeCows3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

I sense another clueless Xbox fan.

Is an article called "Why Gears of War is better than Unchar'D'ed" next?

DaTruth3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Wow, so when the news is positive, this hits the front page; But when the article is the guys at Digital Foundry saying that Forza 3 can't hold a candle to Gran Turismo, it gets buried and disappears from the history of N4G!

I'll try to find the link.

Found it: http://www.n4g.com/NewsCom-...

@Montrealien: There are your hard line facts!

This is a really good read and hardly compares the two games, but is more the type of news that should be on this site!

O2_Addict3272d ago

according to Eurogamer's Digital Foundry in their technical analysis. They also said the Forza 3's improvements over Forza 2 are due to cutbacks in other areas (such as number of spectators) as well as better artisitic choices.

So how can anyone argue that it's just a carbon copy of GT games when it doesn't even match up with the 2 year old GT5 Prologue?

http://n4g.com/xbox360/News...

gaffyh3272d ago

Finally they fixed the title

EvilBlackCat3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

1.10 - @1.7:
"It's obvious from your constant use of the caps lock button, poor grammar, incoherent sentences and the blatant lies you spew that you are below the age of 16 and have probably never driven a car in real-life, and therefore don't know how a car handles and drives in real-life.

Please, Forza 3 is an ok game, but to say it will match GT5 is idiocy of the highest degree."

16 and have probably never driven a car in real-life, and therefore don't know how a car handles and drives in real-life?

LOL!!! funny that you say that to a Car Technician for Subaru.

My opinion have more weight than yours in this> Forza series is better Racing Simulation games than all the rest of Racing Games on consoles PERIOD.

Gran Turismo has been a point of reference for most of the racing games in consoles but have never been a reference for PC Simulators. Forza is not trying to imitate Gran Turismo or any other game on consoles. Forza is trying to bring PC hardcore simulation mixed with Casual Racing to console gamers.

So go ahead disagree with me and take out my bubbles but that will never change the true fact that the game that you guys and PS+Polyphony have been hyping for year as The True Driving Simulator is just a Casual Game with some Simulation elements. Gamers can have all kind of opinions about this kind of genre (Racing Simulators) but an opinion of somebody who work in this field have more weight. Instead of been fans of GT or Forza why not be a fan of Racing Simulators? because commenting that Gran Turismo is a true simulator is pathetic and a proof of ignorance.

Chubear3272d ago

Oh please, this isn't no trolling but facts. Go look for yourself, Forza3 is trying to match what GTHD was doing and if you point to canned damage animations in Forza3 as a point to better "sim" then, I'm sorry, but you don't know what the hell a racing sim is supposed to be about.

cRaZyLeGs 933272d ago

lol Forza Motor sport 3, its Forza Motorsport 3. This guy can't write.

DaTruth3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

Doesn't matter if you are a car technician for Subaru, if you are also a mouthpiece fanboy for MS XBOX360.

PD actually have real race drivers show up to test their game and explain to them how the real cars handle! Do you understand now? Forza does not.

Who do you think will have the real driving simulator feeling? You don't bring Mario Andretti to Japan to make a casual game with simulation elements!

Unending Punishment3272d ago

Bullsh*t dude. The monitors were I work have nothing but Forza Motorsport 3 wallpapers and the TVs that have Xbox 360 kiosks get used to display Forza Motorsport 3 gameplay.

Magazine spreads and articles have sprung up and numerous accolades have been given to Forza. It's a respected brand, and I've even read about racing teams that have used Forza between races to stay sharp.

Gran Turismo will get the easy pass as it always does, Forza had to really earn its place.

HDgamer3272d ago

It has been the only big hardcore racing simulator, it's also funny that it's used by professional racing drivers and die hard fans of the series. Forza 3 may be good and all but it's no GT5 or GT series. Not even superior or better.

Bob Dole3272d ago

"The only thing that CAN make GT5 better than Forza is that they give us better simulation than Forza3 BUT 1000 Cars, Nascar, Rally, "Dynamic Weather Effects", Track Editor and PS3GT fan Base & N4GPS3 Fan Base Hyping its not going to give us that. They are just distraction. "The main attractions of GT5 are distractions"

So.... too much variety?

DocEvil3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

@1.19 Da Truth

I don't know how you got that from that article?! The first two pages pretty much talk about how much better FM3 is than FM2 in pretty much every concievable way and I must have read a different comparison to the GT series than you...

So here's the highlights from the comparison again:

"Turn 10 clearly does not possess the single-minded focus on technical matters that Polyphony revels in (often to the exclusion of gameplay innovations, or improvements to other important aspects, such as car AI). It's fairly self-evident that the Forza team would dedicate resources into incorporating new features as opposed to further tweaking graphics tech, and in this respect, it often leaves Polyphony to play catch up, as has been the case with the implementation of crash damage for example."

So GT looks better but instead of tweaking graphics Turn 10 leaves polyphony to play catch up on things like gameplay innovations, car AI, and crash damage.

"[GT5 is the] only racing game on either platform that we've played that employs 4x MSAA and hits 60FPS. That's in 720p mode. Switch to 1080p, and you get a 50 per cent resolution boost up to 1280x1080 (expanded outwards to full HD using bilinear scaling) but AA drops to 2x MSAA."

Again Gran Turismo looks better. 1080p is 1920x1080 btw

"GT also manages to process twice the number of cars as Forza, but the grid runs with a rolling start in order to space out the vehicles."

I also didn't realize that the only way to get 16 cars is in a rolling start so as to space them out... this is a point that has been conveniently waxed over in this ongoing discussion.

"In replay mode, the differences in lighting become even more apparent, but the motion blur used by Forza is a cut above Polyphony's implementation, even if other notable effects such as a heat haze approximation are missing."

Again, GT looks better. Forza does has better motion blur though.

"The other major advantage for the Forza engine is the fact that (in-game at least), the game is v-synced and will never tear"

So no screen tears for Forza.

"Despite these technical wins for Turn 10, GT5P emerges as the classier-looking game, the standard bearer in terms of graphical accomplishment"

Again, GT is pretty.

"Turn 10 obviously wants to use those resources elsewhere, be it in implementing features like rewind, or its hugely innovative system in swapping user-generated content"

Again, Forza leads with features and innovation.

"Refining its handling and feedback model is also a hugely important element. GT's handling was once considered unassailable, but Forza feels absolutely wonderful to control."

Forza has better control.

I agree Gran Turismo looks better than Forza but Forza still has great graphics and when you consider that this article seems to think that Forza leads in innnovative gameplay and community features, car AI, crash damage and control then I REALLY don't know how you came to your conclusion about his comparison. Turn 10 seems to be concentrating on making the game PLAY better while Polyphony seems to be concentrating on making the LOOK better.

O2_Addict3272d ago

Here's a neat and accurate summary I copied off the thread for that Digital Foundry article I linked to earlier:

The gist of it
Compared to Forza 2

+ Artistic decisions are much improved
+ Lighting is no longer inconsistent
+ Specular maps on roads
+ Better reflection textures

- Less crowds (saves fill-rate and polygons)
- No anisotropic filtering (saves texture processing and bandwidth)

Just like Gears of War 2 the way they got improvements in lighting and textures was by cutting back where they felt people will notice it the least.

Compared with GT5 Prologue?

+ Replay mode has slightly better motion blur
+ V-synced to avoid tearing

- GT5P has far more sophisticated lighting
- GT5P in 720P has 4xMSAA (double of Forza 3)
- GT5P in 1080P mode has 50% higher resolution but still has 2xAA
- GT5P is processing twice as many cars
- GT5P has tons of transparencies like dust-clouds
- GT5P has lots of effects (like heat haze) that Forza 3 simply does not

Risky_243272d ago

If you don't have an xbox 360 i suggest you revise that statement because if you did you would know there is this little area on the 360 called "inside Xbox" and I'm sure if you were to do a little digging in there you would not have made such a comment.

DocEvil3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

It's funny to see pro gt fans simply ignore what they don't want to see. You forgot some things in your list but for you I'll copy and paste the exact phrases back in here for you:

"Turn 10 clearly does not possess the single-minded focus on technical matters that Polyphony revels in (often to the exclusion of gameplay innovations, or improvements to other important aspects, such as car AI). It's fairly self-evident that the Forza team would dedicate resources into incorporating new features as opposed to further tweaking graphics tech, and in this respect, it often leaves Polyphony to play catch up, as has been the case with the implementation of crash damage for example."

"Turn 10 obviously wants to use those resources elsewhere, be it in implementing features like rewind, or its hugely innovative system in swapping user-generated content"

"Refining its handling and feedback model is also a hugely important element. GT's handling was once considered unassailable, but Forza feels absolutely wonderful to control."

So don't forget to add these things you ignored into your list:
Forza
+innovative gameplay features
+innovative community features
+car AI
+crash damage
+control

DaTruth3271d ago (Edited 3271d ago )

Like I said, it is a good read about Forza 3 and Forza 2 comparison. But obviously you didn't read to the end. I suggest you check out the end of page 3. I Never said they didn't praise Forza 3 and my Forza reading doesn't consist of bashing articles. If this was a Forza bashfest, I wouldn't have read it!

And now you know I'm not a GT fanboy, because I read the entire article, unlike you who read half and came back here to say ha ha, and blab on about... well I never actually read what you wrote!

Edit: And I don't recall posting a list! Rewind is not a simulation feature! Rewind doesn't happen in real life. Also less people show up to Forza races...because they reduced the crowd so as the game could function. The Idea was that on a sheer technical graphical and simulation level, GT5 prologue, not GT5 leads the way. Lets save the gameplay and feature comparisons to GT5 until the game actually releases; Kinda difficult to compare features to a demo!

slayorofgods3271d ago

Forza 3 aka The not so "Grand" Trismo racing game

multipayer3271d ago

What kind of knowledge would a real race car driver offer besides his moments in the limelight and gradual degradation of the vehicle over time. Now taking notes from only the most amazing moments in racing, could lead to quite the arcadey experience. Also, If I'm not mistaken, Forza has done a much better job limiting the vehicles performance over the course of the race, and has raised the bar with physics like most american developers. Which could lead to a better sim IMO...

Perkel3271d ago

@ cat

the more i read the more i smile...

seriously get a grip fanboy

sikbeta3271d ago (Edited 3271d ago )

"Not a carbon copy of course", It make it sound so bad, I enjoyed NFS Carbon XD

@EvilBlackCat

You are a Car Technician for Subaru, so why in hell are you playing Forza lol

If someone dare to say forza don't try to copy Gt is more blinded than a bat

the only thing I have to say to prove all the blinds that are wrong

GRAN TURISMO means "Grand Tourer" in Italian

Forza means "strength" or "power" in Italian

Even the language of the tittle's game is copied from Gran Turismo lol

Another thing you have to know, a Complete driving sim is the most boring game ever, Gran Turismo take all the aspects of a Complete Driving sim and put in an Awesome and fun experience, in short GT deliver the best of a sim and save us all the boring stuff

"Forza 3 is No Gran Turismo Carbon Copy" this title is really funny

Saaking3271d ago

Of course it's not a copy it doesn't even come close to the epicness and grand scale of GT5

O2_Addict3271d ago

Digital Foundry specializes in comparing graphics using what appear to be impartial statements based on a thorough technical analysis.

Comments about game play are purely speculative and subjective. Much of it appears to be nothing more than apolologies and excuses for Forza 3's vastly inferior visuals.

Here's the list you posted and my <comments>:

So don't forget to add these things you ignored into your list:
Forza
+innovative gameplay features <very little that wasn't in the first Forza. Still only 8 cars per race ... when will "Next Gen" begin?>

+innovative community features <Not much new here either. Most of the stuff has been done in previous Forza's or other games>

+car AI <Forza 3's AI is terrible. Park your car on the road and rather than drive around they'll just keep driving into you>

+crash damage <exact same crash model as Forza 1, no real-time deformation, Getaway on the PS2 far better crash damage>

+control <Forza 2's physics were not sim quality and Forza 3's using the same basic code base with a few tweaks. How it compares to GT5 will have to be seen when GT5 comes out>

Here's a great example of Forza's physics. GT5 Prologue has it's bloopers but nothing like this!

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

WonderboyIII3271d ago

Forza 3 is not GT5 and vice versa. Both are great games that will socre 90+ and Forza already has. Enjoy them Both! The PS3 might produce better visuals but the 360 is no Wii. So gameplay and features is where the differences might be settled for those who are looking for the definitive racer. But you only look for differences with that much seriousness is when you cant or decide not to try the competition. Like fanboys do.

This is competetion and as I say and said before, it will bring us consumers the best products.

DocEvil3271d ago (Edited 3271d ago )

@1.34 da truth
It's classic how guys like you talk AT people and it is very apparent that you haven't read my comment or anybody else's comments or even the bulk of the very article you posted. lol

@1.38 Sikbeta
I guess Ferrari must have time travelled decades into the future to copy terminology from Polyphony Digital because that's how long Ferrari has been using the word Forza! There's even a magazine dedicated to Ferrari cars called Forza Magazine that started publishing in 1997. They must have gotten their name based on future Gran Turismo games too! You guys are awesome!

@1.40 O2_addict
Every game has it's glitches and I'd like to see if you can get Forza to do that again whenever you like. No? Probably a fluke glitch then. However, GT's glitches are easily reproduced over and over and over and over again. You spin me right round baby right round like a record baby right round round round round!
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Oh geez there's more! Don't forget the wheelie bug.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Maybe you guys should watch inside sim racing's review of Forza, you know, a review from guys that ONLY review and report on sim racing games which makes their opinion pretty much the ultimate word on the matter. Pay special attention for the word 'benchmark' which they seem to use a lot.
http://www.insidesimracing....

btw if gt is so good, why doesn't it do three screen setups like you can do in Forza and we are talking since Forza 1 back on the xbox some 6 or 7 years ago!!! And why doesn't it have Porsche? I mean what kind of racing game doesn't have cars from one of the most prolific sports car companies of all time, Porsche???

sikbeta3271d ago

So ferrari make games now, I didn't notice

This is the worst excuse ever, is obvious that PD thought in the Italians Cars when they called GT, is not like PD named GT because of the cars they put in the game, GT5 is the first game with ferraris and lamborghinis, so is has nothing to do with the lack of inspiration from t10 to use the same language on the tittle as PD

morganfell3271d ago

It's hilarious Saaking. Forza only achieved the visibility it did because most of the Turn 10 crew are loud mouth braggart jerks. The majority of articles concerning them were about their making a certain wild claim rather than an actual Forza feature. It is a joke AND a testament to desperation marketing.

DocEvil3271d ago

@1.44 sikbeta
Gran Turismo didn't have Ferrari's when Forza Motorsport launched and securing Ferrari licences was a big part of the reason FORZA was used in the title. You kids have no sense of history.

+ Show (43) more repliesLast reply 3271d ago
swiftshot933272d ago

Good luck with Forza 3 cause GT5 does really have a lot going for it. Graphics are more realistic, more cars on the track, GTTV, more cars, head tracking, youtube uploading....

If the rumors are true and GT5 gets a track editor and has a day and night/weather cycle, then its pretty much over.

table3272d ago

unless of course the gameplay sucks, something which everyone appears to be overlooking when talking about GT5.

TheBest3272d ago

Completely brand new and overhauled physics engine to match real-life as close as possible says the game-play will be top notch.

DaTruth3272d ago

Didn't overlook it at all; That is why I'm not buying GT5 or Forza 3(and I don't have a 360), because I don't like realistic racers. Give me Super Mario Kart SNES any day over these!

But if I had to pick, GT5 is on another level!

INehalemEXI3272d ago

GT5P already said that GT5 gameplay is going to be crazy good ...it's already known to be kickas5 gameplay.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3272d ago
naughty573272d ago

GT5 though, has no competition

ShinFuYux3272d ago

Honestly, what Need for Speed Shift did was revolutionary to the simulation genre. Meaning, they actually sat down and thought about on how to improve this genre by means of feed back, rather than graphics and amount of tracks.

Forza 3 and GT5 may look pretty, act like their real life counterparts; but both games still feel stale and boring. I honestly feel like, I buy a racing game to race not to see how it feels likes on a track. So, I want to get more involved with the race, have someone talk to me over the radio like in race driver Grid (have a crew), each driver has a mind of their own like in grid and nfs:shift (they make mistakes, get nervous or aggressive when i'm near them).

Bereaver3272d ago

You should read up on GT4, if you constantly bump another car trying to pass you, they WILL bump back. Also, I'm guessing you haven't played GT4/GT5:P or Forza 3, because they both have drivers that make mistakes. Now, yeah, were not talking about neck breaking miscalculations BUT, they do run off the course occasionally.

ULTIMATE_REVENGE3272d ago

In real life your eyes don't get all flippin blurred up when you crash and that's what made me delete the NFS:SHIFT demo within seconds of starting a race.

Without realistic graphics in a racing sim the game will feel lame and unrealistic, in a Racing sim everything including realistic graphics all add up to the realism and just adding in a massive over exaggerated impact from a small tap on the wall and adding a whole load of blur to go with the impact isn't going to make it any more realistic with Arcadey PS2 graphics.

Go back to playing Gran Turismo 1 if you hate graphical upgrades.

cRaZyLeGs 933272d ago

Forza is actually fun to play. You get attatched to your cars because you can customize them, a bit like nfs etc.

likedamaster3272d ago (Edited 3272d ago )

@ShinFu

You might be right on how "approachable and fun" Shift is but overlook the general physics and racing guideline in NFS:Shift. One word... HORRIBLE! Fun c0ckpit view and driving but once it got down to it, it wasn't fun at all. It felt like I was drifting all the time no matter how much grip I had or how fast I was going(fail), and couldn't rely on the guidelines until I was used to the tracks which was quite annoying compared to Forza. No simulator can compare with Forza in this very thing, Forza executes flawlessly in this area.

You want a quick pick up and play racer, try Shift. You want a more serious yet still approachable and fun definitely get Forza 3. Gran Turismo 5 is irrelevant here for it is not even close to releasing.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3272d ago