VG247: Sony's Q2 financials today have taken total PlayStation division losses to $4.7 billion since PS3 launched in November 2006.
Well according to Kaz they're still losing money on every PS3 sold. http://www.slashgear.com/so... They sure arent turning a profit anytime soon.
"They sure arent turning a profit anytime soon. " Yeah you would like that wouldnt you? ( http://www.joystiq.com/2009...
Lol its so funny how people disagree with the truth, their egotistical minds don't want them to fear their god (console) is losing money. Grow up seriously, ffs who cares if your company makes profit or not as long as they make great games its fine. (Queues 100's of disagrees from Sony fanboys).
Kaz has been quoted as saying, "We are still losing money on eveyr Ps3 sold, but we recoupe or losses on software and sales on the PSN"
lol Sony losing money is the last thing ANYONE should worry about. If the ps2 just abandonded their 10 yr plan for a new Indefinite Plan imagine how long the ps3 is goin to last? Cost are down, profit is up, technology is cheaper yet more efficient. Its a formula for success
Of course I'll get 100 disagress. If I had said the exact same thing about MS, I would have got 1000 pats on the back and the thread would have turned into a "hail Sony"/"f*ck MS" meeting and they would bring up Uncharted and RRoD and bla bla bla oh dear Sony you love me soo much u are the best. And look at post 2.0 and the agrees he has: This article is 100% factual, almost no opinion given by the author, no commentary, nothing at all. But they're convinced that this is an attack against Sony... NOTHING absolutely NOTHING negative about Sony is true. Its all a conspiracy, 360 fanboys at work or whatever. @jinxstar (post 1.10): you're another perfect example of everything I said above.
It is only a matter of time when Sony will have to start charging for the free online service like XBOX. It will probably happen just as soon as the cross chat service is available. I remember a high level Sony exec not answering the question when he was asked if Sony would ever charge for online. How would that affect your love of the PS3 then? PS. I have 2 xbox 360s, 1 PS3, 1 PS3 Slim, and a Wii.
The PS3 was what won their Blu-Ray effort. The losses in the early days of the PS3 was apparently worth it to Sony in the long run as not only will Playstation licensing bring in money, they can thank the PS3 for the money Blu-Ray licensing will also bring in. Because they are seperate divisions, it looks bad for the PS brand, but over all it wasnt (isnt) terrible.
You're right Cold, when Microsoft quarter profits turned up no one seemed to care, why? Because they posted a profit whereas here it's gonna be all jumping to conclusions and showing how they make money elsewhere (stats show they've lost money folks)! This place is just run by fanboys.
My question is, Sony doesn't report losses in US dollars. What is this site using for foreign exchange rates? The yen's moved 20% against the US dollar during the past year due to the US dollar's weakness. If they're using todays FX rates, that's just a lie. If anything, if they're reporting the loss in US dollars, it's a huge oversight to not use the FX rates from when the costs were incurred, and drops their number quite considerably. Edit: Why the disagrees? What I said was 100% accurate. They're using today's FX rates which is flat out wrong and skews those numbers. Don't shoot the messenger. They claim the figures were pulled from the Sony Investor Relations page, but that's just a lie. Sony doesn't report in US dollars, they report in yen so those figures were doctored using god knows what FX rates.
You guys ever try looking at colds recent history. Make you laugh =D "Geez cant u just enjoy what u have and stop whining for a moment, and that goes to all your fellow whiners who are going to come in swarming in here" Or heres a classic one "U wont see me whine like the bunch of whiners that make up 80% of this site." LOL. Anyway I love my PS3 and am enjoying UC2 and ACIT like crazy. just beat ACIT last night. Need to find my ryno 5 plans now =D So don't hate too much cold.... why does it bug you so much anyway?... I'm not whining at all but dude you just look like a hell of a hypocrite. I am just praising Sony right now because of the awesome games they publish =D I'm not saying anything bad about MS now at all or whining am I? But it sure looks like you whining about Sony bro... Just chill out. It's not worth it... Anyway bubs up to all you real gamers on here. =D Game on!
Is that number Yen or US dollars? Still 4.7 million is a lot of money to have lost in roughly 3 years. Those figures would be a lot worse if not for the PS2 remaining profitable well into its lifecycle. Hopefully, the launch of the PS3 Slim will revitalize the brand. This isn't very worrying since the PS3 will have a 10 year life cycle and will turn a profit but we'll see how soon after Microsoft launches their new console will Sony launch a new console.
Fanboys can say what they like or spin it however but the fact is that both MS and Sony have messed up profits wise. They have lost HUGE amounts in their gaming divisions. MS has recently turned profits but they were getting on for a $10 billion loss before that. Sony have lost all the profits they have made on the ps1 and ps2 with the ps3. Maybe winning the format war was worth this? Only they will know. The only business plan that has made sense to those concerned about the health of the businesses is Nintendo's. Only one loss in a quarter since the company was formed (including the GameCube years!) is quite a record and deserves respect.
Darkmurder posted: "Grow up seriously, ffs who cares if your company makes profit or not as long as they make great games its fine." Do you think companies make games out of the goodness of their hearts? If a gaming company ISN'T making a profit, it won't be making any games, good or otherwise, for very long since they won't be in that business. Sony, like Microsoft, have other markets to help offset any losses their gaming divisions may incur, but eventually, that segment is going to have to be profitable (or at the very least break-even) for them to continue in that market.
It wouldn't have anything to do with a recession would it? Everyone is suffering profit declines, obviously.
http://neogaf.net/forum/sho... Sony has lost $4.6 billion since the PS3's inception. Microsoft has lost $3 billion since the 360's inception. Sony made $2.2 billion with the PS2. Microsoft lost $3.6 billion with the original Xbox. Total from last gen and this gen: Sony $2.2 - $4.6 = -$2.4 billion Microsoft -$3 - $3.6 = -$6.6 billion As you can see, Microsoft is in no better position than Sony. In fact, I'd say worse as the math proves it. This is all while not considering the PS1's profits in sake of fairness.
@ 1.5 The comment of the day! So true my man.
You zealots, always searching for some bad news related to Playstation, how delusional a person can be? try to get a life Well, I think is the only you have after all, Wanna know what are you going to say when Sony recoup the money lost but..but Live and Halo 8: the las remant is better lol
Oh well you win some you lose some.
Counter to many comments here, Sony DOES report earnings in USD in addtion to YEN. From their earnings report on Page 4 - Paragraph 3. "An operating loss of Y58.8 billion ($654 million) was recorded, a deterioration of Y18.2 billion year-on-year, mainly due to a deterioration in profitability in VAIO PCs and the game business." Edit: This is from Sony's Game Division section of their earnings report. So yes, Sony's Game division also reports in USD.
PC gaming profit's for 2008: 12.7 billion http://www.neoseeker.com/ne... ...yes..the console's are 'taking over'...forgive me if i don't take you seriously Said it all along, we won't be seeing a ps4 for a looooooooong time. @siren, yes sony does....sony games division doesn't @Darkeyes I know microsoft has also lost money, the wii is the only profitable console. Who said they want sony to die?, i haven't read any comments suggesting that. I just think it's funny that after all the "sony is winning" comments that they post such a significant loss.
Gee! That's almost as much as MS has spent repairing consoles. The biggest thing hurting Sony right now is the weak US dollar and the appraciation of the Yen. That will change once the economic recovery starts.
That the business is profitable overall. http://www.joystiq.com/2009... Sony had always lost money on every single Playstation they ever made. Whether it be the PS1, PS2, or PS3. The only profit they make is from software, peripherals, royalties, etc. This is the same business plan that Microsoft uses on their original Xbox and the 360 too. Which helps explain why Microsoft lost $3 billion last gen and $3.6 billion this gen while Sony lost $4.6 billion this gen.
Yes, because Microsoft didn't lose money either. You sound pleased that Sony is losing money so you can throw around that 'SONY IS TEH DOOMED!111' card.
He's ignorant and will never accept the facts. Like with every business, there is an acceptable loss of revenue if there is a viable gain elsewhere. They lose money ont he PS3 and make more money from the software. Simple, factual. Too bad some fanboys can't see the light.
Are these numbers total losses are adding in their profits? How much has that division brought in? Is 4.7 billion breaking the bank? Gotta think having almost two decades of PS1 and PS2 really did a lot to help? Anyone know?
Look at all the corporate business men here giving advice to Sony (especially from the opposite camp).. I especially loled at dchal's comment about there being no PS4... Um do you really know that the original Xbox lost 3.3 billion and the current one is still down 3 billion???? It will just take M$ 2 console gen just to recuperate the looses and level up. And seriously people don't look at short term gains, but look at long term profit... Even if PS3 lives for 10 years, then too it will earn profits eventually.... Lets say Sony sells the last 50 million consoles on a profit eventually when costs come down plus add to this PS2 and PSP+ First party games revenue and Home revenue+ revenue from Blu-Ray and 3rd party games... Then it already has the Cell processor which really took a lot in R & D for PS4.... And to all the haters cursing Sony to die... You must really hate gaming if you want Sony to die... Even I won't like M$ to die from the gaming industry.. Both push each other forward and lapse by any of them, means that the end of hardcore gaming.... Throw the fanboy goggles and hope that both companies come out of their losses fast cause the last thing we want next gen is only Wii 2. @Above: Those losses are only on due to PS3 selling at a loss... No one counts the immense profit brought in by PS1 and PS2.. Hell no one even counts the profit by first party games, Blu-Ray royalties, Home revenues and accessories... As Kaz said, overall the gaming division is making a profit with first party games and PS2+PSP.... @Dchal... Just read the first comment in the Open Zone.. Need I say more?? I just hope that these losses don't affect the next gen of consoles (which I know they won't in the long run, but still...). If there is only gonna be Wii2, then it's my worst nightmare come true... Either ways, both companies have many other departments which make up for the losses.
I want Sony to stay in the game. Competition = better for gamers. I am sure in the coming years that Sony will turn to making a profit much like the PS2 took several years to make a return.
@ lifendz The link by Rockleex should answer your questions. But baisically before the ps3 Sony's game division had made near $5 billion. However now since 1998 when Sony decided to release figures for their games separately they have now profitted $250 million. This loss of around $4.7 billion has come from 2006 - now when the ps3 has been out. - In addition to my previous comment since 1998: Microsoft has lost $6.5 billion on xbox division. Sony has made $250 million on playstation. But Nintendo has made $22 BILLION on the n64/GC/Wii! That is impressive.
Sony looses money, MS looses money, Nintendo smokes $100 bills... But wait... 360 has a great lineup of games, PS3 has great line up of games (some would argue its better than MS, but lets not go there now)... What does Nintendo have? Wii Resort and Wii Fit? Why should any1 care about Sony or MS profitability... Both these companies have employed more than eligible business men for that... A a gamer all i care about is - Good games, Great games and Amazing games... and I am sure getting my fair share of those !!
I like reading financial reports simply because it gives a behind scences representation of how each companies business model is performing as a whole. Nintendo caters to the larger casual market and it continues to earn them huge profits. Sony is suffering huge losses from the Vaio and gaming division. Their latest Q1 and Q2 reports show further losses. Microsoft dug a huge hole with the original xbox and RROD now their finally becoming profitable in the last 2 yrs, and now their latest Q1 report shows they are going in the right direction with profits. Its interesting to see how sony was making great profits with ps2 while the xbox was losing money, now recently the 360 has become profitable while ps3 is losing money, even though 4.7 billion is alot of ground to make up, I expect ps3 will also become profitable given its 10 yr plan, microsoft would be wise to also keep the 360 around for quite some time to squeeze every ounce of profit out of it as well, my only thoughts is with tech growing so fast and gamers wanting more and more, can either console remain revelant to the masses for 10 yrs?
I know people are going ape**** over this, but these figures are proof that console sales mean almost nothing. Your example of blu-ray royalties etc: all 3 of the 'gaming giants' have other areas to make up for potential losses....but nintendo still made a big profit, and i know why, they went cheap on the hardware etc etc, but it was still a good move, and it's still a good console...it just doesn't have many good games...for me anyway. Better luck next round for the 3 gaming companies, imagine a world where there is no rrod, no poor quality multiplats for ps3, wii 2 has hdmi and third party support etc, and they all have 1080p standard....that is the gen i'm waiting for. @darkeyes how am i saying that next gen should have 1 console, i'm saying i hope the next x-box is more reliable, that i hope the ps3 is easier to program for ( less poor quality multiplats), and that i hope the next wii has hdmi and 1080p support, as with the others. I've already moved from console gaming to pc gaming full time, I bought a wii and didn't like it and saw no point in getting a ps3/360 as i had a decent pc, so i just stuck with pc
I was always looking at the presentation slides and they don't convert on those. These numbers are accurate. My bad. Interesting that the article choose to look at Xbox losses, and not Xbox 360 loses. I'd never seen the actual numbers for MS's losses on the orignal Xbox.
Look at the stock and economy!! no marketing dollars nothing for anyone! sadly this is a reflection of the economy where if there were more Jobs there would be bigger sales of the PS3. Unfortunately the technology we embrace is the very technology that replaces alot of peoples Jobs,and bottom line video games pacify us and takes us from reality and replaces our mundane existence(numbs us).While in reality ; Jobs are more scarce !! Go ask Block Buster or USPS workers , or Gorcerey stores workers, or game crazy, or auto workers??(not everyone can be a Rocket scientist!or IT engineer)which I am=). All these jobs are automated or have been replaced by Robotic or Logic systems.. I hate Netflix and Game Fly!! But hell a joke goes around the work place I made up ,as the guilt poors in, it goes," Tecnology , maybe one day it will get to apoint we might have to invent a time machine and go back in time and assassinate all the people involved in this technology crap!!
Yikes... people are REALLY stretching for bad news here. You don't run these kinds of numbers until the end of the generation is in sight.
@dchal... If you are saying that the next gen should only have 1 console, then sadly I don't agree with such an idea... competition increases the quality from both sides.... If either of the 2 decide to fall out of this industry, then sadly, next gen will be ruled by casual gamers (especially now that everyone has joined the motion control bandwagon) and I will probably move on to full time PC gaming. Just imagine a world where no one gave a sh!t about the Wii 2, imagine a world where 360 exclusives were the quality of PS3 exclusives, imagine a world where motion controller never existed and anyone who thought of that were to be executed... That is the gen I am waiting for. I always hope (and know) that Sony will surpass the 360 eventually in terms of units sold (that too after 3 million got sold in Q2), but I never say that I hope M$ dies for good like some of the extreme fanboys around here... Hell I even felt bad when Sega left the gaming turf.
Though they are losing money on every console sold, they gain that money back through game sales, blue-ray sales, psn store sales, psn Home sales. Add all of that up and you'll find out they gained more money than they lost from the PS3. Bubble please!
Obviously they need to make a profit on products in order to make them however people on N4G cry about it as if their mother has died just when their company posts a slide in profits or posts a loss. It's just pathetic that some people idolise these companies even though they are still easily operational.
^^^ I wouldn't disagree with that and I understand your point. I think a large part of that is from being defensive from attacks and that goes for all sides.
I wonder why xbox fans care so much.
"Lol its so funny how people disagree with the truth, their egotistical minds don't want them to fear their god (console) is losing money" It's so funny to see donkey fans happy to imagine sony loosing money (even when they don't count whith bluray royalties, games, etc), poor people, loosing each time ("hddvd" "xbox" "exclusives" "graphics" lol)
It's either "PS3 games don't sell" to "PS3 lost more money than MS". You 360 fanboys always find something to rag on when it comes to the PS3. I don't care if Sony loses or gains money from the PS3 as long as they keep pushing out the amazing games month after month. Besides...it's SONY, what makes you think this will affect them in the slightest. The gaming industry isn't the only thing they're involved in. @Cold....you get funnier each time I read one of your comments. Keep it up bub, it's always good to get some comic relief from this site, too serious.
Seriously, Nintendo is the only company to make a profit this generation.
It is called a P&L or Profit and Loss statement..This is only the lost statement not the Profit. So who knows how much the games division is making or losing, considering this also included the VIAO business as well.
Yup yup, judging by the disagrees I got, just what I thought, it is pretty sad though that you want a company to fail so badly.
Cold 2000 over here tries to call out PS3 fanboys for the exact thing he does, then his little side kicks Hslo3 and dark give him props for his hypocrisy, well played... No one here was saying Sony can do no wrong. All thats being done is your narrow mindedness is being pointed out. Kaz has stated that the devision is profitable. Icyjoker's link completely nullifies your comment. Instead of accepting that you were wrong you scream fanboy and claim that they a blind to the truth. What? The Gaming divsions profits/loses are reported with a number of other divisions. From the article: "Note that both quarters so far this financial year include losses from Sony’s Vaio business." But I suppose I'm being a fanboy for pointing that out, right?
They have also lost a LOT of money recently producing all those PSPGO's that haven't sold yet. People have to realize these numbers include consoles that haven't yet been sold aswell as loss of profits on consoles that have. PS3 will start making profit soon but they do make profit from other avenues.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't a business supposed to MAKE money? One could say that it may take a while for a turnaround to happen, but unfortunately the future is looking very bleak for the playstation 3. bu bu bu 1 billion for rrod!!!!11
If Sony is still making a profit then what is the 4.7 billion loss about? @ dchalfont I may not always agree with you but I did understand what you wrote there, well, unlike others.
sony loses $4.7 billion and all ps3 fanboys do at their defense is say. ps3 fanboy "every company loses money" after holding a fvcking record for the most money losing MS comments. 4.7 billion is more than what MS lost, and as far as sales analyzing goes ms makes their money back in DLC and online service and from the sales of throughout all America.
Companies all over the U.S. have been losing billions, what makes Sony's loss so horrid that it has to be posted and cried about? If this was the 360 you MS fanboys would be doing the same thing.
The official damage control article countering the PS3 sells 3.5 million article. Just because they don't bother with the type of creative accounting MS uses that keep the RROD loses and the ridiculous 360 advertising budget out of their games division(legal because the whole company is listed as MSFT). MS loses as much or more in their gaming division; Only difference is they have no chance of making it up! Sony doesn't hide it because this console war is completely one sided; Like the war between Pepsi and Coke where all of Pepsi's commercials are co-starred by Coke and Coke hardly thinks of them because they are no threat.
But The salezz ! Salez = qualityzz HALOOOOOZZ
PS3, it only does everything, except generate profits.
"sony loses $4.7 billion and all ps3 fanboys do at their defense is say. ps3 fanboy "every company loses money" after holding a fvcking record for the most money losing MS comments. " LOL @ 1.48 so true.
wow...time for sony to actually open their eyes this gen and make something that can sell consoles like halo can... must be kinda funny for them to still be at square 1, which is just to top a 2007 game. then maybe they can catch up to halo 3 odst in time to be slaughtered by halo reach. that's all you gotta do sony...put teh cellz to work for you, we get it! ps3 can do it all! but you STILL CANT BEAT HALO!!!
"If I had said the exact same thing about MS, I would have got 1000 pats on the back and the thread would have turned into a "hail Sony"/"f*ck MS" meeting and they would bring up Uncharted and RRoD and bla bla bla oh dear Sony you love me soo much u are the best. " translation: "Im a butthurt MS fanboy who can't stand the fact that my gaming god is almost universally hated while Sony is almost universally loved" crybabies
OH no!!! What ever shall I do? I guess I should just sell my playstation huh? Sony's doomed again!!! I find it funny how everyday these articles get further and further away from gaming. First it was "playstation has no games", then it was "but it still not selling well", and now its "well they're not making a profit" wonder what the next argument will be?
Sony is no0t doomed, but we can't ignore this. WHo knows what consequences this 4.7 BILLIOn loss will have on strategy for PS4 and beyond. I doubt Sony will have same strategy for PS4. You have to wonder if they will ever earn back those 4.7 billion in this gen. Nintendo had 2.2 billion profit last two years, but they have DS selling like crazy + Wii selling like crazy + they make money of hardware from day 1.
This is related to gaming, more specifically the Playstation Division. Sony aren't doomed in any way, Unbiased mentioned this, but you cannot tell me that this won't have an effect on Sony's marketing strategies. However, we must remember that Sony has a 10 year lifecycle on their products and of course they will eventually make profit as things are looking better for them.
Completely agree with Unbiased. Moreover there are rumors that Sony is considering reusing the Cell technology for the PS4. http://reviews.cnet.com/830... http://www.videogamenews.co... Its obvious they wont go on another PS3-like adventure with the PS4 after all the woes they have had this gen. And this loss will probably carry on to the next gen hence why they're counting on their 10 year PS3 plan, because its going to take them at least 10 years if not more to erase the huge loss the PS3 has caused.
Well I was just trying to point out that the PS3 was not the only reason that Sony was losing money, but I guess it came out wrong. ... and I was being sarcastic about Sony being doomed, I don't really believe that and would never sell my playstation
Unbiased... is your name suppose to be ironic? Sony's loses are a result of the economic downturn and even Microsoft has experienced big losses. You are manipulated the numbers to fit your argument. That is the very definition of bias.
They were banking on a 10 year plan at the launch of the PS3. The PS2 is also on the 10 year plan in case you haven't noticed. 10 year plan doesn't mean PS4 10 years after PS3. They want to keep the PlayStation name synonymous with gaming, and they will do everything they can to make sure that anyone who wants one will have one over its lifetime. Sony has a ton of momentum, and the competition doesn't really have anything huge to slow it down for a while. If Sony's motion controller AND the Wii 2 are out before Natal, MS can probably kiss the casuals goodbye again. We're more than likely to see a rushed Natal though, just so they can stay competitive.
I completetly agree with you. Except for the Motion controller and Wii 2 part. Natal is likely to be a 1000 times more appealing to a casual crowd than Sony's motion controller simply because its new and does a whole lot more. You can argue and say bu...bu...its only an improved eyetoy...well go and say that to the casual crowd...lol And we both know that the motion controller is planned for Spring next year and Natal probably fall 2010. Its pretty clear it doesnt seem to bother MS at all since Natal isnt a motion controller exactly like the Wii's one but they're actually aiming to attract the casual in different way rather than going into a motion controller war like Sony. And if WiiHD does come out next year along side with Natal, well its pretty much goodbye for Sony's motion controller after only a couple of months. I mean u dont really believe that Sony's motion controller will be able to keep up with a WiiHD or Natal right...?
What Butterfinger said + bubbles.
sony is so doomed they just cant help themselves from releasing MORE high quality games of a wider variety than the opposition. Will it all come good....of course it will but im not that caring to know how I just want games/services/variety since my primary invested interest in sony is as a gamer NOT a shareholder...Sony could wipe out a whole load of these loses by adopting Ms's model and by that i mean overcharging for any and everything including online and closing all their studios but would that make me happier???? Answers on a postcard
It's not so much a matter of Sony's motion controller being better than Natal, as it is a matter of them getting theirs to market first. The funniest thing about your argument is your failed to recognize that this is the EXACT same strategy MS used when they hurried to release the 360 a year earlier than the PS3. Anyone who wants HD motion controls will buy the PS3, especially with some killer apps, and Wii 2 will decimate Natal. Don't kid yourself by attempting to argue that Natal is after a different type of casual gamer, they are all after the same. Natal might not even make it out next year. If I were you, I'd be praying for the WiiHD, because that is the only way MS will put a rush on Natal.
Right on butterfinger, Cold is merely delusional. Without any sort of feedback (rumble, or even something physical to hold) along with the lack of accuracy that buttons add.. FPS won't be very accurate so there goes half of the 360 install base. Natal will be for casual gaming and I can't wait to see it happen. I don't know what Sony will do with their motion controller and I really don't care. If they make core games then great, if not then I will just have no reason to buy one.
@butterfinger You forget that Sony was suppose to launch in the Spring of 2006 so the "rush" was earlier than needed, but they were working off info they assumed was right... Sony dropped the ball and this is the cost of that. The diffrence between what Natal will mean to the casuals and what the PSwand will mean are like night and day. It's not even compairable. If Microsoft has the cost at the right level with the right software it could feasibly post Wii like numbers that Christmas. It doesn't seem like they are rushing this thing out the door at all.