The Multi-disc Problem - Isn't it Time Microsoft Added Blu-Ray to Xbox 360?

It's time for Microsoft to move on from the failure of HD-DVD and their downloadable content plans and accept the fact that they need a higher capacity optical drive in the Xbox 360. With two popular recent games (Halo 3:ODST and Forza Motorsport 3) each needing 2 discs you don't have to look any further for proof that their scheme is a failure.

[Raoh]

This wouldnt work. If they added blu ray for use with gaming it would have to be a new console generation for microsoft as current 360 owners would be unable to play the blu ray games as you can't play the games with an external dvd/blu ray drive.

[TotalPS3Fanboy]

which means the consumers loses. It seems Microsoft only cares about Microsoft's proudness and not the loyal consumers that support Microsoft.

[jadenkorri]

for the same reason ps3 couldn't take blu ray out despite people saying it wasn't needed. MS adding blu ray would be giving the big middle finger to everyone 360 owner cause they would either have to buy an addon to play the new games or a brand new 360. IMO it would not bode well, just like if live was switched to $100 a year.

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

when that analyst suggest Sony remove blu-ray from the PS3 to lower cost!

Why would MS fracture their own market just so you can have the convenience of one disc. In fact, it would be a disservice to all current Xbox 360 owners. Multiple discs are not a problem and the cost to print a disc these days are insignificant. If licensing is an issue (I don't know), then I'm sure MS would lower the cost as the competition heats up.

Multiple discs? I guess if you are lazy and don't want to get off your butt to replace discs, then I can see you have a problem. Then again, how often do you have to do that? If you still have an issue, then you are staring at bigger health problems coming your way.

I really don't understand the issue of installing a game that is an optional benefit. If you want to play a game NOW and don't want to install it, you don't have to. Want to save wear and tear on the optical drive and load faster, install it! That is as good as it gets!!!

[The 1]

MSFT wouldn't use Blu-ray for games if they could. There are much newer, faster disc formats that have more space. Blu-ray would be a poor choice for gaming when other disc tech holds more and their drives much faster.

I just don't see why a game company would choose Blu-ray in this day and age for their console.

I doubt MSFT would put a disc format in their console that adds new and in some cases more expensive time consuming problems. All that space gets wasted on duplicated data just so the drive can run games like game tech should run games in the first place, well almost.

[Bodyboarder_VGamer]

I don't know what is more stupid between this article and what @The 1 said... OMG the ignorance! LoL

[raztad]

@Body

Thats a really good question. I wonder too.

On topic: MS is stuck with multiples DVD this gen. It was fine back in 2005 but the tech is pretty old by now, the only way to solve this issue is releasing a xbox720.

[The 1]

The rabid >Bodyboarder_VGamer< doesn't explain why MSFT would choose Blu-ray for games. You could have atleast said MSFT is desperate and wants to add a drive for the 360 because of feeling threatened because they're not in the $30-$40 MOVIES BUSINESS. lol WHAT WOULD MSFT DOWNGRADE ON THE 360 OR TAKE OUT SO THE COMPANY CAN ADD BLU-RAY SO FOLKS CAN WATCH BLU-RAY ON A CONSOLE THAT HAS TWO MAJOR MOVIE SERVICES ON IT. I GUESS THEY COULD JACK THE 360'S PRICE BACK UP, OH WAIT

I don't know what's worse this PS3 fanboy or a 8 year old boy being told to go to his room and to bed after being yeld at.

" Bodyboarder_VGamer - 5 hours ago

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Do you actually know that Insomniac is not part of Sony right? They are a private company and if they wanted they could do tittles for other consoles beside the PlayStation...
Agree(5) | Disagree(35) | Report"

lOwl

[ultimolu]

Too late.
The ship has sailed already.

That's the bottom line.

[Arnon]

You are GOD!! WE BOW DOWN TO YOUR ALMIGHTY JUDGMENT!

...-_-

[cmrbe]

She is right. Its too late. It was too late the time they decided to go with DVD9.

It can never happen for x360 gaming unless MS want to replace all existing x360's.

@Ildesu. Even changing a game disc is a chore for me now. I want a Blu-Ray changer for my PS3.

[Anon1974]

I can't see Microsoft adding an external Blu-Ray drive, although extra accessory sales may help them make up for the money they lose off of hardware (according to analysts) I don't think they'd make enough to make it worthwhile. And after what happened with HD-DVD, even though Blu-Ray is the format that won I can't see them taking that expensive a risk again.

Also, Microsoft isn't going to suddenly start releasing games in Blu-Ray. Would you buy a game for your 360 that you could only play with an expensive add on? No one would touch them.

[mal_tez92]

Blu ray will be in the next generation of Xbox. Or maybe Microsoft will make some new technology like 1000GB UV ray discs, or 100000GB X-Ray discs.

Blu ray and the mandatory HDD make the PS3 the more capable system, but adding a BD drive to the 360 now will mean that some people could play BD games, while others can't. Just how some gamers now can install data, while those without a HDD cannot.

[ultimolu]

Lol @ Arnon.

Don't have a heartattack there. Poor random people who disagreed. Seriously, can Microsoft really add bluray now? I'm waiting for an answer...

[Arnon]

They could add blu-ray. I think it would only be for movies, though. It's not like it would deter from me being able to play my games considering I play my PS3 and PC much more than my 360. Not sure why you needed to send me a message asking if I was crying, but good job messaging me and blocking me. I guess it shows why the majority of people on this site disagree with you.

I'm just crying over your awesome might and greatness that is expelled from your body. That's all. Please don't smite me with your awesome powers :(

[saint_john_paul_ii]

so it wont work. the topic is able the use of high capacity discs for gaming.

its too late for microsoft to add BD to the system. an add-on would just make the system look retarded. now for movies, it would be another story

[ReviewsArePolitics]

The_1 is Why Dis' new account, lol

"Blu-ray would be a poor choice for gaming when other disc tech holds more and their drives much faster."

Where is the proof of "new, faster, better, cheaper" disc media anyway?

[Arnon]

No it probably wouldn't work. They would have to force everyone who owns a 360 to buy a blu-ray player, which would not settle well.

[mal_tez92]

How long until having a BD drive in a PC is standard? They are still quite expensive here in Australia, I dont think programs and PC games will be distributed on them anytime soon. Maybe in 3-5 years but most likely longer.

[Arnon]

Probably never, unless you're referring to movies and such. Other than that? No. Games are installed onto your PC. They never run off of the disc drive, thus, having absolutely no reason to force developers to use blu ray for PCs. The only time you have to put in the disc is for installation, and verification of ownership.

[mantasis]

I know they're hated on this site, but what about macs receiving the Blu-ray treatment...I mean their displays are just screaming for it.

Though I never did think of it, computers really don't need the blu ray format aside for HD-Video...

[Cueil]

The only way it would work is if the USB were 3.0 instead of the 2.0 that they currently are... if they were 3.0 you'd have faster data flow than the current SATA they have in the system

[ultimolu]

Arnon, people have already said it *won't* work. I love how you jumped on my comments first when I said the ship has already sailed. It has already sailed. I don't know what else you want me to say. Microsoft backed the wring horse and eventually that will give the PS3 the edge.

It's amazing how games have to be cut just to make multiplatform games equal on both platforms.

The people crying about how Sony was stupid to go blu are eating their own words now.

Disagrees change nothing.

[Cueil]

InPhase Technologies has a holographic disc close to ready...by 2012 they should have close to 120mbs on 300gb of data... though InPhase signed some kind of deal with Nintendo... so who knows

[Arnon]

I really didn't mean to jump on your comment. It was mainly a joke just because of the way it was worded.

[Bob Dole]

It would alienate a lot of the userbase the same way Sega did with SegaCD and 32x. It would be the ultimate shaft.

[Terry Tate]

I dont believe that its necessary. At least not this generation. Microsoft has already backed the wrong HD horse, so they just need to stick to their guns with standard DVD for now. Honestly, having multiple disks doesn't bother me too much. Last night I brought home Forza 3 (2 disks). It asked me to install the 2nd disk, which I did, then I played the game off the first disk and will likely never need the second one again.
When I played Metal Gear Solid 4, I had to laugh after the cutscene where they make a joke about not having to switch disks because the game was on Blu Ray, then proceeded to make we wait 8 minutes while it installed the next section. I found myself thinking that it sure would be a lot faster if I just swapped in another disk. Obviously MGS4 would have been on like 10 DVD's or whatever, but I think it still would have been faster to swap a disk than to wait for the next install to complete.
I just don't think multiple disks are that big of a deal.

[maxxb117]

Sure, Blu-ray is the ****, but PS3 already has it, already is a real good console, and it's too late in this generation to add a Blu-ray player. They should've had a Blu-ray player instead of an HD DVD player, though I understand that we didn't know who would win the DVD wars at the start.

All I'm saying is Microsoft makes some bad decisions, and the HD DVD thing was already a bad one at the start. Maybe it's not their fault, but they still did it, you know?

[darthv72]

The whole multi-disc thing could be addressed without the need for bluray for the time being. Not to say it wont happen for the next gen 720 but for this gen there is a better option.

If MS would bite the bullet and make the hdd standard then devs can produce the games with installing in mind. I know the hatred some have for the install on ps3 games but doing it on the 360 could prove more beneficial than on the ps3. The games could be made to be installed, or at least the core components linking the multidiscs together.

If the 360 is a PC basically then I can see software going a similar route of install to play. You install the rest of the discs with the textures and other data and use the first disc to play the game. But MS...you have to make the hdd a standard feature for ALL 360's!

[AAACE5]

It didn't become clear to me until I read a few comments. MS could install a Blu-ray drive in the 360. They could use it similarly to the way the DSi is set up. Since the Blu-ray drive can read regular DVD's it wouldn't be much of a problem. Then they could release a few games on a Blu-ray disc in order to get people to upgrade.

Before you doubt it, think about how much people are willing to upgrade their system just because something new is added!

I have witnessed tons you you guys on here admit that you will be buying a new 360 or Ps3 just because they added a bigger HDD or bundled it with a game.

I don't believe MS is that proud, and they are more concerned with what increases sales. So they are probably happy to add blu-ray to the system. Primarily to try to balance the playing field so that the Ps3 doesn't have too much of an advantage on them.

I do have both systems and play them equally, so this isn't a fanboy comment, just one mans opinion!

@Ferel gamer... The 360 has more RAM than the Ps3, so Mandatory installs probably won't happen. The Ps3 mainly had mandatory installs because there was a lot of info being pushed through a tiny hole. Because the 360 has more RAM, that might not be as much a problem.

I can understand peoples doubt of the 360 because of failure issues, but I just don't get why people think the 360 is so weak! I know the Ps3 has more power, but people on here make it seem like the 360 is as powerful as a gamecube or something.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Microsoft should make an add on that would basically be a 3 dvd disc changer. It would hook up via usb to the back of the xbox 360. They could streamline it so its flat and not clunky and take up little space. It could lay right on top of your xbox360. So you have one disc in your xbox 360 and you could have up to 3 discs in the external drive. It would be very inexpensive to manufacture and it could cost as little as $25 to purchase. The first big game to use it could bundle it in with the game. Halo Reach. That would guarantee a good 10 million of those xbox360 dvd changers in peoples homes from jump. The beautiful thing is....it still wouldn't be needed. People could get up and change the game discs manually and play the same game. Or they could purchase the add on for the FEW SELECT games that use multiple discs. This way MS never has to invest in a blu ray add on and they wouldn't alienate all the millions of consumers who may not want to purchase an expensive blu ray add on. That would be bad business for Microsoft to add a blu ray player for games. But a multi disc changer would be excellent business and cheap enough to be a reasonable option for 360 owners "IF THEY WANTED".

[gintoki777]

they dont give a crap about blu ray they make crap loads of money without it.

Right now microsoft feels like they dont have to do anything to make their console better the next step is natal similar to what sony did with eyetoy but natal will be more "revolutionary" i guess

[Raz]

And Ballmer let it slip a lil' too early so they spun his comments with a 'clarification'.

Bets? Anyone? Let the agrees/disagrees fly...but if you lose, you owe me a bubble. ;)

[Feral Gamer]

It would segregate their fanbase even more. You'd have blu-ray only titles which some people couldn't play because they're not willing to fork out extra cash for add-ons, then you'd have blu-ray games which have mandatory installs which would fill up the 20gb HDDs in 4 games. People would have to fork out even more cash for the MS HDDs to be able to install more than a few games at once.

[OpenGL]

Yeah, it would be like the SEGA CD and 32X all over again.

[badz149]

BD will not be in 360! but maybe considered in the next xbox! I'm not sure M$ wants another Sega CD like case with the 360!

[Cueil]

We'll see how Holodisc look in 2012 or the new DVDs that can store massive amounts of data... though It's look like 2015 before 5D DVD will show up.

[Double Toasted]

PS3 fanatics...

[Marty8370]

It would'nt work for games cos you would either be splitting your userbase even more or forcing it too upgrade. Neither is a good option.

Crapbox user base is already split. Some crapboxes have hard drives some have non. Some have HD DVD drives, Some Don't. This splitting of the user base is a bad idea as the devs end making games work for lowest common denomanator. Splitting further by having some with a Blu-ray add-on and some without would be a nightmare for devs.

It would have been better for MS too just make HD DVD avaible for Crapbox games and cut it's losses and offer it as standard in new machines, and offload the external HD DVD drives for a cheap price.

Even thou HD DVD lost out to Blu-ray it could have surrvived as a game only Crapbox media format, HD DVD could have solve Crapboxes media storage problems overnight.

But it's Microsoft were talking about, they never saw that use for it.

[stb]

make me feel soo pity om microsht for their low way for control their stuff, another shot in their foot, another step on for sony.

[Mike134nl]

Gran turismo 2 had 2 cd's if I remember correctly.

About halo ODST not sure if they couldn't have fit it on one CD, seemingly they made some ajustments on the old halo 3 engine to make the "large city" possible. Also the second disk isn't Halo odst but the halo 3 multiplayer.

Haven't seen many games with 2 discs with rpg's beeing the exception. I am sure that the majority of games coming to the xbox 360 will be on one disc.

If it really becomes a problem Microsoft should eliminate the xbox arcade, allowing games with multiple discs to install to the hard drive.

Adding bluy ray to the xbox 360 is out of the question and assuming Microsoft would do so just to further splinter their install base is just plain stupid.

[JD_Shadow]

"Gran turismo 2 had 2 cd's if I remember correctly. "

1. GT2 was on the PS ONE, when such multi-disc games were necessary because there wasn't any other mass storage option available to ANYONE at the time.
2. One disc was for the arcade racer, disc two was the simulator.

[kaveti6616]

-_-

WTF? Does the guy who wrote this article know that if Microsoft releases a Blu-Ray add-on it will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for games? Is this person just an uninformed dunce with access to a blog site? Come on. So many people on N4G already know that the only benefit of a Blu-Ray add-on for the 360 would be for films, and in this case, a solution already exists, and while PS3 fanboys may mock that solution, it still exists.

I would have loved if Microsoft had implemented a standard HD-DVD player into every console or even Blu-Ray, but that didn't happen, and the 360 is already closing in on year 4, and it's not going to happen. The games will continue to be on either single discs or multiple discs, as the situation warrants. Either stop b!tching about it or go play your games elsewhere.

[MGOelite]

microsoft are WAY too proud to accept defeat and use technology of the "enemy"

[stb]

@
``microsoft are WAY too proud to accept defeat and use technology of the "enemy" ´´

Microsoft are WAY too ignorant and stupid to accept their format is done and have to move forward,..Fixed

[Theoneneo81]

Wow 4 reports and still goes through Great job :)

[Saaking]

MS sucks

[The 1]

As long as the 1st party games get new inhouse engines like what is really happening and the multi platform games stay superior on the 360 I'm not worried.

I'll be glad when the PS3 relaunch sales spike ends these retarded articles are getting old.

Can't wait to see BRINK tomorrow at Eurogamer I don't think we will be talking about Disc space but I'm guessing RAM, Graphics card and GPU.

[madjedi]

Lol thats hilarious, as long as multiplats on the 360 remain superior, but ps3 exclusives still beat most multiplats to a pulp, your good, your also waiting for ps3 sales to drop.

It's funny that the ps3 selling so good bothers you, shouldn't you be talking about the 360 exclusives instead of settling for multiplatform games.

And we agree on one thing, ms needs new first party engines, because they still have yet to come close to uncharted 1, k2 or uncharted 2, or mgs4 ect.

[Cueil]

Sony isn't Nintendo... they can't turn a profit if the third parties turn their backs on them

[Dorwrath]

A blu-Ray add on, for what. The only real benefit is for watching blu-ray movies. How much would you think the Blu-Ray add-on would be? I can go buy a stand alone blu-ray player for $130 if not less than that.

[Xino Gramoso]

some times this site just dont no what to say..... and ps3 funny fan boys love it.... Halo odst is smaler than HALO 3 so if they din t put, is beacause they dont care, but you guys love war you say your are not fanboys but in every word and coment we see you are....

[xoxideu]

Multi-disc swap in.

[xoxideu]

:'(

[SnukaTheMan]

its like putting in a disc to play movies on netflix.

[Oner]

^^^^ BWAHAHAHA! Is that the best you got?!?! AHAHAHA! I actually feel sorry for you now...especially since Netfix already said that this was their temporary solution to get their customers access immediately and in early 2010 there will be a XMB option CONFIRMED. LoL I can't stop laughing at you and your misinformation!

360

DVD9
Disc Tray
Non standard HDD
Pay for play internet service
Wired Controllers
Non Rechargeable controllers standard (need to BUY throw aways or C&P)
No WiFi standard
And more...

[00]

release a blu-ray add-on it wouldn't be used for gaming, common sense can tell you that.

[ForROME]

I do think they should add it as an option MS needs to stop being prideful and admit its ok to be out done sometimes and adopt, $hit they really havent invented much in their history but ride coat tails why should now be any different

[Bob Dole]

Haha surely it would feel great for them to know Sony is making money on every BD unit sold for the 360! They're just too damn stubborn.

[eagle21]

Blu-ray FTW! :)

[rwallace]

Just wondering if anyone can cite the PS3 games that take advantage of the BluRay technology? Most, if not all, do not, I for one have grown with disc swapping from the early days of PC Gaming. There is nothing wrong with a disc swap, honestly.

[JYstiq808]

all ps3 games are on 1 BD disc hence they all take advantage of the technology

owned

[Marty8370]

All do.

Why do you think you'll never get superior uncompressed audio on crapbox cos it would take up far to much room on a DVD9.

Practically every game on PS3 uses it.

[Saaking]

UC2, GOWIII, MGS4, GT5, KZ2. Just to name a few. Oh, and ALL PS3 games come on bluray, including multiplats.

[SSCOOLCHEA]

Cause he took the time to write 3 sentence of retardness .

[xcox]

dude you crack me up, how you try to justify that crap, ha!
these days, i'm even getting bored of swapping discs in between games

face it morons: you jumped in a big short sighted f@ck up with massive overhyping but no vision whatsoever, and now it's falling apart miserably while the ps3 is taking off in the most unstoppable way

[dredgewalker]

This is the stupidest question i have ever read. How long have you been out of gaming to not know that the PS3 uses Bluray for its games?!?!? By the way i am also a pc gamer and swapping discs bug me a lot cause if there was only one game disc to use while installing i could have done some other things instead of waiting to change the disc. I dare anyone who says that bluray is not needed make a pact not to use it when it becomes completely standard. The hypocrisy is making my nose hairs twitch.

[BenCrazy424]

How did this get approved? The last time I saw the article, there were 7 reports

[The 1]

PS3 fans approved this because it gives them an excuse to mock the 360 or make pointless points. Check info at the top of the page to see who approved and reported. It doesn't have to make sense when it comes to PS3 fanboys as long as they can attack or show something they see as bad for the 360. Most of what they dig up as news is garbage anyways.

[The 1]

What makes people think MSFT would use Blu-ray with new disc formats already coming or on the market?

Blu-ray tech isn't good for gaming the way the Blu-ray drive reads isn't something a game company would use unless they had interests in the movie market.

[sparta76]

Are u retarted?
I agree this article is stupid, but reading your comments!
What the hell are u saying?

Edit; wait is this your new acct.?
Could u be whydis, cooliris, ididnotmurderhim, alltimegreatness.
How the hell u get so many acct.?

[rockerboy]

you x box fanboys are just as bad when it comes to reporting crap like this , nd as for blue ray not being relevant , a little company called naughty dog would have to disagree with you . and i think they might have a better idea than you !!

[madjedi]

didn't read the article

@13 Why would ms use blu rays on the next xbox, gee maybe because it is a reliable, dirt cheap to make, and an established format that works well for gaming, the current format dvd9 is old and needs to be put down.

I'm sorry what other media formats are you refering to, flash media is too expensive atm for the number of copies of disc based games being produced. hvd maybe, reviving hddvd? what?

And funny how countless first and third party devs don't have any issues with using br discs, vs a non developer posting on a console war prone website.

I'll give the benefit of doubt that this isn't just an alt account, just someone that is talking about something they no nothing about.

[Antan]

Correctm, it is his new account, but now he has another one also, ....Gameart. Thats must be nearly .....8 or 9 accounts now.

[Pekka]

Which disc formats are faster and bigger capacity and on market? There is none. HD-DVD was slower and lower capacity than Blu Ray. HVD won't be available in many years and first models are going to cost 5-10000 dollars. It will affordable enough probably few years after that. Flash media is still too expensive but it is the only option which is possible in short term.

[Salvadore]

Will this not be a b1tch for developers as they will be forced to develop titles with 3 different SKU's in mind?

Xbox 360 Arcade.
XBOX 360 HDD; 20GB, 60GB and etc.
XBOX 360 HDD with a Blu-Ray drive.

[Gameplay999]

Its way too late to be considering a new format for games to use, requiring an additional purchase for an add-on which as we have seen in times' past simply doesn't work ,( *wink *wink SEGA).

Besides its not like two DVD's is anything to balk at and its not like every 360 game has had multiple discs either. Alas! another exaggerated, overblown article graces N4G.

Even if they did offer a blu-ray add-on I wouldn't even consider buying it it when I can get a stand-alone
player of better quality and for cheaper no doubt the way MS overprices their accessories

Its not like DVD is dead yet anyways, its definitely outdated now thanks to Blu-ray but it isn't dead.

We will just have to wait for the next generation of consoles.

[CaulkSlap]

Logical thinking is in short supply these days. Was this article written by a 12 year old fanboy? Who keeps submitting this garbage?

[Godmars290]

Just stop it. A BR add-on would be worthless to the 360 no matter how much MS talked it up. If its used for more than to watch movies, its going to shove a divide between how games are made much less produced on the one console.

You want it on an Xbox, wait for the next one.

[Saaking]

I didn't know we were still in the PS1 era. Yea, GT2 came on two disks as did many PS1 games but that was over a decade ago. MS needs to get with the times, multiple disks these days reek of two gens ago.

[xoxideu]

another way for ms to cash in

and then fans would be happy and devs can crank out [BETTER] quality games [WITHOUT LAST GEN DVD9] technology

[Gameplay999]

A Two disc game is nothing to make a big deal about. I could understand if there were games coming out with 4-6 DVD's, now that amount happening consistently would warrant your comment. As is I just don't see the big deal.

[xoxideu]

ff13 would be 3 discs, lost odyssey was 4 discs, more and more games will take up more space as games get bigger and become more advanced, because technology moves fast..

[Gameplay999]

They released the HDD-less Core/Arcade models ;, which was an extremely stupid move , the original Xbox had a HDD built-in and was a big advantage last-gen over the two other consoles for developers, I just do not understand why they would gimp themselves like that.

Even still all they have to do now is tell developers to make use of the HDD regardless and then put 'requires HDD' on the back of every game box, which would fly because most owners already have a HDD/

[xoxideu]

Nope that was a smart move, ms stays ahead of the $$$

it was always about the $$$money

[xcox]

what a big pile of poo xb!tches jumped in

[Shadow Man]

:D

[Foxgod]

Multiple disc are not a problem, and as data is always growing faster then storage types, there will always be multiple disc's.

Just like how i got 5 hd's in my pc now, to store a total of 3.5 tb of data, before you know it, i will need to add another hd.

[Golfcoachh]

Microsoft has the done everything they can to make consumers "not" buy their console. Old DVD-9 format, faulty hardware, expensive storage and accessories, lack of first party developers. Then when they try and say you that digital download is the future, they hamstring you with expensive hard drives so its impossible to download games unless you upgrade your hard drive. Don't get me wrong I am a huge fan of my 360, but my ps3 has so much more value. Its amazing that the 360 has sold as many of these as they had. It was smart to come out a year early, except for the rrod, but it got me to buy one on launch day. They had better do something next year. I know Natal sounds promising for a lot of reasons, but please tell me you aren't haning your entire hat on that.

Most of my games are on the 360, i had it first, so it pains me to take off the fanboy goggles and try and figure out what they are doing. Yes I love netflix, yes I tweet and facebook all the time, yes I love halo and gears, but other than alan wake next year, I am not sure what they are going to do.

We shall see, but it looks grim for my 360.

Take this for what it is. A day of enlightenment for a former 360 fan.

[likeaboss302]

I have to agree the Microsoft Business strategy for the 360 has been puzzling. They seem want to make money in every possible transaction instead of looking at the overall customer experience. The making money off of core items and allowing consumer choice and freedom on others.

Honestly DLC has gotten out of control on consoles. So many things developers use to do for free (and still do on the PC) as a thank you are now available for a fee. Worse yet many things that use to be in the games now are left out and made DLC.

[Gameplay999]

Every company is about the money, look at Nintendo with the Wii... $250 for a last-gen system with motion control and they are rolling in the dough , and talk about accessories, talk to Nintendo. Of course they had to do it after Sony stole their thunder two console generations in a row.

I can see that the release of the Core/Arcade models of a HDD-less 360 made it $100 cheaper than the other models and more affordable to consumers yet its too bad that they had to make the 20GB HDD so damn overpriced, its ridiculous. Its proprietary so they can charge whatever the want..... I mean a 20GB HDD for a PC is like what? $10 now. Crazy.
Of course they had to do that because otherwise people would just buy the Arcade models and a cheap HDD and wouldn't even both would the Pro or the Elite so they messed themselves all up.

[Shadow Man]

Xbox360s HD-DVD LOL

[Shadow Man]

Thats why they are stuck playing one game over and over because they are so lazy to get up and change game disc.

[Stinger_209]

and u enjoy swapping disk's.....HAHA

[likeaboss302]

At this point it's too late. I'm sure they are looking at bigger storage options for the next console. As a 360/PS3/Wii owner I find no problem with multiple discs on 360 games. Most of the time I just install them to my hard drive anyways.

I also find it interesting how much Sony Fan boys seems to care about Blu-ray for the 360. Why so much concern? It doesn't seem to hurt the quality of the games on both platforms.

[glennc]

it is because they are fanboys, no more info is required. PS3 has blu-ray, xbox doesn't. they spend more time caring about other consoles than playing their own.

[ReBurn]

And by caring I'm sure you mean complaining.

[ApocalypseShadow]

when you got games like forza3 coming not just on 2 discs,but to get the rest of the tracks,you got to download the rest.that's just poor forward thinking.i don't care if they are trying to get you to buy it over used.that extra content would fit on a bluray.or should have been on that second disc.

i'm sorry but anyone that said that bluray wasn't necessary for bigger and better games was an idiot.

example 1:

gta4 and all the 360 dlc would fit on one bluray disc.but because of 360,gta4 was better looking for next gen,but lacked things that san andreas did on ps2.6.5gigs is poor for next gen open world games.

example 2:

games like uncharted have more detail that the best 360 game.that's not possible on a dvd disc.listen up....all the objects onscreen,all the animations,all levels,all the sounds...stream directly from that bluray disc.you can't spread that across multiple discs as all these things are happening at ONCE on ps3 in that same level.

that's why devs say you can't do it on 360.you can make a game with the same name.but it won't have the same content because the dvd can't stream it all like a bluray.let's say 360 can have the same visuals as ps3.the problem you hit is all the other stuff.

as an example,if 360's dvd can hold 10,000 animations,what do you think a bluray 50gig would hold?let's say 50,000 animations.you are telling me that that game will look the same on 360 as ps3?GET REAL.

that ps3 game would have characters that wouldn't do the same animation twice.but it doesn't end,objects onscreen,physics,lighting,etc would just be more.so when someone says bluray doesn't help graphics,i just face palm myself and think these guys just don't see the bigger picture.

microsoft missed the boat and are paying for it.no wait....360 gamers are paying for it.in dlc and whatever microsoft comes up with.sony knew better and acted for movies and games.

[likeaboss302]

Actually the DVD in the 360 can stream data faster then the Blu-ray in the PS3. That pretty much kills your arguement. Throughout of history of gaming a lot of good developers have made using multiple discs pretty seamless.

With that said MS should have held off the release of the 360 until they could have included HD DVD. The hi-def format war might have had a much different outcome.

[bigrudowsky]

i dont see how they are paying for it their games still look great and have great gameplay..

It all comes down to the developer and while the ps3 has "better" graphics its doesnt help them with gameplay.. At the end of the game gameplay is what counts. Gameplay wise there is nothing the xbox cant do that the ps3 can, you get me.

[Oner]

@ bpmur ~ Not exactly true. Here is some info that is easily verifiable & factual

1) DVD produces 408,960 pixels of info per frame. Bluray produces 2,073,600 pixels of info per frame (although this is for movies but it still would apply for "information" that BD's can offer up OVER DVD's)

2) Bluray vs DVD speeds

Disc Transfer rate in Megabytes per Second
-Single Layered discs
PS3: 9 (average: 9)
360: 6.65 to 16 (average: 13.3)

-Dual Layered discs
PS3: 9 (average: 9)
360: 4.389 to 10.64 (average: 7.5145)

Seek times are also faster on Bluray since the data is packed far closer together. And we all know 99% of 360 games come on dual layered discs because they are desperately grasping at keeping p to the PS3's standard BD drive.

Plus the fact that "speed" does not equal THROUGHPUT. I would rather have slower moving information in a big pipeline than fast moving information in a restricted small pipeline...no different from water in a pipe (GPH/M) or forced air in a turbo setup (CFM) ~ same thing.

[glennc]

idiotic. no need to even explain why, common sense

[hoops]

Next generation wont be using optical media. Large DRIVES WILL TAKE ITS PLACE.

[OSIRUSSS]

Disk swapping = XBOXFIT

[stb]

Better says

Swapbox 360 jajajaja. owned

[ReBurn]

Isn't it time people quit complaining about this non-issue? I mean, seriously. It isn't that big of a deal. How many games require a disc change during gameplay? And if they do how often does someone really change the disc?

When Microsoft released the Xbox 360 high-capacity discs weren't really a cost-effective option. Heck, when the PS3 released they weren't either. It's pretty easy to look back and say that things should have been done differently, but honestly what good does that do?

The next generation will be upon us in a couple of years and at that time I'm sure that the lessons learned from this generation will be addressed.

[NecrumSlavery]

Well since 360s scratch the hell out of discs, disc swapping is eccential. The more time spent on one disc is more opportunity for your 360 to tear it up in it's shįttee disc drive tray. So if you swap discs, you'll be able to minimize damage and complete your C- mediocre RPGs...lol

it makes sence now.

Smart M$...You have to find a way to bypass your 10 year old disc drive and laser reader system.

[sin1161]

If microsoft change to blu-rays the disc will withstand the crapbox scratching so it will solve the scratching problems, And that is not good for microshit cause it will stop (brainwashed) people from buying a new copies since microsoft don't return scratched discs.
Because of their acclaim is that the users bad handling the games discs .

[iceman2929]

Ok so im not 100% sure if this is viable this generation... but why not start selling games on flash drives!

ive seen 8GB drives for as low as 8$. and 32GB drives for 50$. have the different factions subsidize this cost so it costs 80 - 100$ for the drive + a selection of games on the drive.

Allow people to backup these files on their pcs/external hardrives ( pirates are going to get their hands on the files no matter what...)and let people re-use the thumb drives to download new games at the stores/booths at the mall.
People for the most part dont have the capacity for full on DD because of caps so this is a viable alternative!

If they want, attach the game to an xbox live account. If you want to lend it to a friend then you can set up a temporary license for his account for a small fee ( 2 $ perhaps). If you want to sell it to someone else, transfer the license permanently for a 5$ fee. That way publishers get some money from the used game market. Games can still be bought "second hand" or lent.

[bigj]

will not use bluray.I think Microsoft will use hddvd drives in the next xbox.HDDVD is not dead because China just turned their back on bluray and their using hddvds.I actually think hddvd would be great for games because 30gb disks are plenty of space for games at this point and time.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/stor...

[koehler83]

That'd be admitting Sony was right! They'd lose so much face.

[mattygamefreak]

Microsoft needs Blu-Ray for the next XBOX. They would never go Digital Distribution only and if they use DVDs they will end up with low quality, last generation games while Sony pushes forward the gaming market with Blu-Ray or even Holographic Versatile.

It'll be interesting to see what happens, considering if Microsoft drops the DVD format they will have no backwards compatibility.

[ikral]

MS will stay with DVD this gen, no big talk over that.

[DelbertGrady]

Add cheaper HDDs instead, so people can install the discs.

[jlemdon]

this is where I think MS went wrong! I think they should have made the Elite with HD-DVD feature instead of being 120 GB maybe 60-80GB.

[xg-ei8ht]

M$ can't add blu-ray, the price would be way to much on top of the way to much price now.

And it would be external. Yuk.

[steve30x]

They should have kept HD DVD going themselves. @Then there wouldnt be any problems.

[Che Chou]

We were quite disappointed when we had to add another disk with extra content for our game, it would have been much easier if we had Blu-Ray.
But we support Microsoft no matter what silly decision they make.

Che Chou
Turn 10 Studios

[Ultraplayerxd]

...are feeling really stupid right now. :D

[Marty8370]

So true, and hard drive installs.

Consider thats how games are heading this way on crapbox, with full disc installs. Ouch!!!!!

Giving that the crapbox has loads of problems with space, like you can't upgrade the hard drives with cheap ones of any size. I'd be worried about this more.

[Rowsdower]

the 360 despite its problems has been a success for MS. It has performed better in the marketplace than the original Xbox, and has kept the PS3 in last place for 3 years. MS's next console will no doubt add larger storage capacity for their games.

This is not to say that the storage that bluray provides is unnecessary, Killzone 2, Uncharted 1 and 2, and other games are great examples of what that extra storage space can do for a game. There is no question that the PS3 is pumping out graphics that put 99% of other games to shame.

None the less, people will deal with multiple discs, its not that big of a problem to swap out. Also the games that can be placed on one disc on the 360 look good especially on an HD TV, they retain that basic wow factor of HD gaming.

in conclusion nearly five years into the 360's life it has been successful without bluray and will continue to be until the next console comes out.

[Rowsdower]

f*ck you

[tudors]

it works as a games machine, what more do you want, it does what it says on the tin.

[ll_UNDERSCORE_ll]

I just had to grace the forum with a appearance since both the article and I are using the same pic.

[rawd]

How are you supposed to experience HD Gaming with a console that uses DVD.

9 GIG DISCS ARE A JOKE, I HAVE USB KEYS THAT HOLD MORE THEN 9 GIGS

WELCOME TO 1995

[Darrius Cole]

There's a thought. Microsoft could say, "From now on all 360 games will no longer be printed on DVD's but on USB Key Drives"..........LOL.

[rawd]

Seriously, atleast they'd avoid all sorts of disc errors and disc scratching

[Ares84PS3]

I can't wait to see that day.

[biggame901]

While I do agree with the points the article made, it's too late in the game for Microsoft to do this. Nobody now is denying that going with the DVD9 format was a mistake, but adding Blu Ray right now, in the middle of the 360s life cycle, would be an even bigger mistake, and would completely fracture the 360 fanbase.

At this point, Microsoft made the error out of their own foolish pride. Now they have to deal with it for the rest of this gaming generation.

[tonywood]

EVERYONE IS LOOKING AT THIS THE WRONG WAY. Of course MS knows that they should be using a DVD's with bigger storage space...or add blu ray. However, why should they?? when MS has customers, who will continue to pay for multiple and practically unchanged Halo and Gears of War titles, it is not necessary to make blu ray. As a Detroit Lions fan, I see that the owners have raised the ticket price..while mataining the same garbage product on the field. Guess what...it's all my fault too! All I need to is STOP SUPPORTING and both the product and price will get better. (Or...the franchise will no longer exist.) Although I feel bad for their workers, the Big Three auto makers have been "stealing" form consumers for years...and they are now getting what they had comming to them.

MS will continue to make as much money off mediocre quality for as long as customer let them. I don't have a problem with MS charging XBL, making the same Halo (Like EA does with NBA Live), and not delivering on next generation experiences. (THEY JUST WON'T GET MY MONEY UNTIL I SEE SOME CHANGE!) I would like to play Halo and Gears of War, but not at Microsoft's asking price. They could have easily brought the 360 price down....BUT they waited until Sony (Which was already a better deal...system wise) to make their console the same price. IN the future, after robbing blind Halo lovers, Xbox Live will end up free. In fact...the only thing stopping it is Bungie's Halo games. THERE WILL BE NO BLU RAY ON THE CURRENT 360! MS doesn't want to provide quality (That will cost a little more)...they are in it for quanity. As long as people accept "Crimes against Humanity"...with XBL fees, the uninspired Halo: ODST and Left 4 Dead PC ports...why the hell should MS change it's ways? Yea, Sony's PS3 was priced too high....BUT they made price adjustments plenty of times, AND as soon as people asked for a rumble controllor, Sony brought that back ASAP. (Which cost them $30+ million to pay for the patent infringment.) Paying for rumble and blu ray were both HUGH gambles that Sony risked. That's REAL leadership and customer service.

[siyrobbo]

I think MS are testing the waters with their games on demand service. XBOX lIVE Arcade titles are generating a fortune in revenue, MS will go direct download, much like sonys PSPGO, making any optical drive redundant

[keysy420]

all the comlications this would bring and if you dropped your console and went out a bought a blu ray versin of the same console and couldnt play any o your games that you had before you the biggest idoit in the world and should be burned alive and have your privates stuffed down your throat. why would anyone rebuy the same system and not be able to play any of the old games.

[keysy420]

game will get bigger better and 5 more yrs from now the 360 will look out of date while the next next gen is starting to come alive and if sony comes first its over.

[I Call 9MM]

Blu Ray is not necessary. We just need cheaper hard drives so we can install our games. Sell cheap HDD, sell games online, sell retail games with an (or a few) install disk(s), and away we go. You install the game once and forget about it. An external cradle addon that would allow you to insert your own 2.5" HDD of your choice would be excellent, just like the PS3. Microsoft won't allow it though, and will definitely loose out on a money making opportunity this way. Alas, it's not always the smartest people at the top making the decisions, just the ones who have kissed to most butt.

Hell, this could even work in better ways. Imagine a game like Guitar Hero or Rock Band, where you install the game to the hard drive, and when the next one comes out (with guitar hero, that seems every couple of months), the new game stacks on top of the other game. So, you get a new campaign mode, and your QuickPlay mode gains a new song list, without the need to relicense all the tracks for another game. Oh, I wish companies where smarter. Again, stupid people at the top making these decisions.

[thehitman]

on 360 but im sure developers would not go for it. They would have to make a dvd multi-disc version to accommodate those who dont switch to blue ray and a blueray for those who do buy the add-on. Which wouldnt make much sense and be cost ineffective. Not to mention if MS officially released a blueray add on many ppl will go like errr cant I just buy a ps3??? MS just need to hold on as much time left they can until this gen comes to an end and squeeze as much money out of their fanbase they have left.

[Vortex3D]

Microsoft's original decision to use DVD9 on X360 were based on several reasons.
Blu-ray and HD DVD were in the format war.
HD DVD for X360 was done as external USB drive as a safe experiment.
Blu-ray disc reading was too slow. See how many PS3 games have to do by installing the game to the hard drive to get a faster loading. Sure several great PS3 games are optimized well for reading off the Blu-ray disc at good speed but game developers often don't want to figure out how to optimize the game reading off the Blu-ray disc.
Of course, Blu-ray format closely lied to Sony, Microsoft doesn't want to use "Sony's" format.

Being a game console, whatever decision good or bad made during the console launch is stuck with the life of the console if changing/upgrading it makes all the older models of the consoles incompatible with future games. The only feature that can be dropped from the newer models is if it's not related to the console generation such as backwards compatibility. PS3 has dropped PS2, Super AudioCD and Linux features.

If Blu-ray would have lost the format war to HD DVD, Sony would have to continue supporting Blu-ray on PS3.

Many JRPG games that came 2 to 4 DVD discs use too many pre-rendered cutscenes that take a lot of space. What happened to the hype of X360/PS3 being so powerful that all cutscenes can be done in realtime (remember the hypes during E3 before either console came out)? Sure are many excuses to use pre-rendered cutscenes to look better but there are also several games that have incredible details cutscenes done in the realtime. My theory is it's easier to use pre-rendered cutscenes because it's recorded and don't have to deal with possible glitches in the rendering engine if done in realtime. The pre-rendered cutscenes can be done by a different company that specialized in making cutscenes. It's the reason why many games have cutscenes that look out of place.

Having a large capacity Blu-ray disc doesn't always make a large game better if not done properly. Large games like Uncharted 2 is optimized to load off the Blu-ray disc but games like Metal Gear Solid 4 have to install the game in segments or the game would need about 20GB of the hard drive space. When I was showing to a friend different parts of MGS4 saved game in different chapter to impress him, we have to wait about 5 minutes in between each saved game chapter. He eventually asked what was up with PS3 having to frequently installing segments of the game?

The quality of the game really depends on how clever the game developers optimize the code to be smaller and load faster off the disc not how many DVD discs or how to fill up the Blu-ray disc to make the game larger than what it should be.

The reality is we live in the world that sees larger has to be better, not how to make it smaller to be better.

[ForROME]

Hence the easiness to upgrade to a 500GB drive

[jdktech2010]

I don't need Blu-ray....Until Blu-rays consistently are priced at the current DVD price, I'm not interested anyway.

I don't have any problem getting up and changing the discs if it's a multi disc game either. But, I'm 21 and in good shape so maybe the people complaining about having to get up need to do it more often for their own health anyway.

Seriously, people blow things way out of proportion if it serves their goal of pumping up their console of choice...which ironically sums it all up. You have a CHOICE of which console to get....one isn't light years better than the other. It just comes to down to what you want. Nothing more and nothing less

[badbond1]

No longer a fanboy as of 10/27/2009. My PS3 died on me. No 3 yr warranty with PS3's. They are just a piece of shiat just like the Crapbox, but at least they offer a bette warranty. THIS is the second time this has happened within three yrs and they tell me - you MUST PAY $150.00. I bought the system at its launch and refuse to pay that.

Sony d*ck riders -stop acting like Sony is the bomb. Stop licking their balls and realize they don't give a f*** about the consumer. When Microsoft gets their shiat together, I will be getting their system.

I will wait. Sony may offer free online, but they don't offer good customer service to loyal customers who own over 30 (incl. PSN) games , PSP with 10 games. As far as I am concerned, I will concentrate on selling this piece of shiat!!!

[rawd]

no

[devilhunterx]

If M$ does put add BR, then what will happen to all those Xboys who need their daily disc changing exercise?

[Ninjamonkey]

On that article on the link sums it up well.

This article is incredibly retarded. What the writer wants is for MS to stop making games on DVD, and instead make games on blu ray for the extra space.

So now everyone with a 360 right now wont be able to play any games unless they either buy a new 360, or buy a blu ray add on which would cost at least £80. You alienate every single customer you've had so far, rip them off, raise the cost of your console, pushing potential cutsomers away as they go for the cheaper ps3 and basicly tell everyone that youve made the wrong choice using DVD9.

Now this already sounds completely idiotic right? but wait, theres more to say how dumb this idea is.

MS has already found a solution to the space issue. If you have a hard drive, or you could just buy one, then you can install extra disks straight to your hard drive, eliminating the issue altoghether and decreasing load times. And reducing fan noise. Forza 3 did this to include extra content.

Or extra content could be put on XBL for free, once again, forza 3 does this by including a voucher with a code with each game. This also encourages people to buy the game new instead of second hand, meaning developers get more money.

Not only that though its clear that MS wants sell more games through downloading. XBL's games on demand shows this, and chances are that next gen MS will be using this much more to eliminate the nthe need for disks.

So yeah, this has to be the most retarded, ill thought out post Ive ever read. Cinsidering that this person created the article youd think he would have reaserched before creating it?

Obviously not...

Im literally amazed...=S

[ForROME]

I agree the split market idea is lame, however its lame of MS to not let people or give them the option to get a BR player attachment, they need to quite being prideful they lost on that battlefront, they offered up an HD attachment, didnt use Digital downloding excuse for that? so why make it now? because they lost, they need to offer it and be fair to their consumers that will benefit from having it for movies and make them happy

[Ninjamonkey]

for starters I doubt MS might be able to get blu ray on the 360, since sony owns a part of it dont they?

Plus you can get a blu ray player on Amazon for £139, the addon for the 360 wouldnt be that much cheaper and it probably would look very nice attatched to it.

And at the end of the day MS have been adamant that for them the future lies in downloada and streaming, netflix has been very successful for them and theyre even now offering 1080i instant streaming of movies. Whilst it would be nice for games that WONT happen. But theyve got plenty of alternatives.

But as far as MS is concerned for movies they have to need for blu ray, it makes much more sense to invest in digital distribution.

[taylork37]

There is absolutely no reason to use BR now.Changing discs >> buying blue-ray when I already have it on my PS3.

Its pathetic to see some of you guys try and diss the 360 because you might actually have to get up off your fat as*es and change a disc. You guys are good at reaching for very bad excuses to rip on the 360.

Furthermore, it looks like with your reasoning Blu-Ray will be obsolete when GT5 comes out, because that game will have multiple discs. That doesn't count because that is a PS3 exclusive right?

[Ninjamonkey]

I think that was proven wrong. On closer inspection they had other content on them.

Its either disks of other games, or more likely, its the special edition with HD content on how they made the game and maybe a manual on how to drive or someething?

But considering a 1 layer disk has 25Gb, they could have just used a dual layer.

[JustinSaneV2]

That would alienate some of the current market and that would most definitely not be good for business. Microsoft is better waiting for the next-gen before they change formats.

[PotNoodle]

I don't think it is a huge problem, but they can't stay with DVD for the next gen.

I think the only big drawback of having to swap discs is that developers can't really do huge open world games. Final fantasy 13, the producer said that they had to change the way the game was designed so that the player couldn't go back to places they had previously been in the game due to the multiple discs on the 360.

[TukkerIntensity]

Because it is pretty much guaranteed that the 360 is going to scratch one of those discs with its ultra loud scratchtastic DVD drive - this way you double your chances of being able to play the game before the thing locks up and catches fire.

[NextGen24Gamer]

Microsoft should make an add on that would basically be a 3 dvd disc changer. It would hook up via usb to the back of the xbox 360. They could streamline it so its flat and not clunky and take up little space. It could lay right on top of your xbox360. So you have one disc in your xbox 360 and you could have up to 3 discs in the external drive. It would be very inexpensive to manufacture and it could cost as little as $25 to purchase. The first big game to use it could bundle it in with the game. Halo Reach. That would guarantee a good 10 million of those xbox360 dvd changers in peoples homes from jump. The beautiful thing is....it still wouldn't be needed. People could get up and change the game discs manually and play the same game. Or they could purchase the add on for the FEW SELECT games that use multiple discs. This way MS never has to invest in a blu ray add on and they wouldn't alienate all the millions of consumers who may not want to purchase an expensive blu ray add on. That would be bad business for Microsoft to add a blu ray player for games. But a multi disc changer would be excellent business and cheap enough to be a reasonable option for 360 owners "IF THEY WANTED".

[Unbornkirkster19]

PS3 w/ the times well thought out AND tested.360 M$ thought it was ready after the alpha stage of testing. Funny how different 360 would be if it was a rushed piece of s$#t that M$ created. They probably wouldn't have half the problems the have now. Thats what an extra year of development can do to a console. Sucks for you Microsoft,money is all that matters!

[gamingisnotacrime]

When I had a 360, i bought Lost Odyssey, A FOUR Disc game (ridiculous right?) The game was great, i installed all the 4 discs to the hard drive and after long periods of playtime changed the disc when necessary. Game braker? hell no
Inconvenient? yeah, if one disc brakes the game goes useless, other than that no big deal.

Of course depends on the type of game, but the whole multi disc issue does not prevent the Assasins Creed, Borderlands, Fallout 3 etc from happening, not every developer is so eager to use the Blu Ray capacity, but being a PS3 owner i like it a lot when developers such as Kojima use the whole Blu Ray disc :)

[PotNoodle]

"Inconvenient? yeah, if one disc brakes the game goes useless, other than that no big deal."

Isn't that the same with any game though, be it in multiple discs or not - if your disc breaks you're stuffed :p

[Gago]

THEY CAN'T JUST ADD BLU RAY IN MIDDLE OF A SYSTEM LIFE CYCLE!!!!!!!!!

EITHER YOU HAVE FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OR WAIT TILL THE NEXT GEN SYSTEM

[mmj]

This isn't going to happen, for one it will isolate most of their userbase and secondly they make a lot more profit sticking a $20 DVD-ROM drive inside.

Xbox 360 cannot compete with PS3 anymore they would be better putting their efforts into their next generation console.