Blu-ray launch delayed in Europe

HD-DVD may have a slight edge in the format battle for next-generation DVD players, with the Blu-ray camp saying they're not yet ready for Europe. The on-again, off-again story of advanced optical-disc recording will keep consumers on tenterhooks yet again this autumn, with manufacturers in the Blu-ray camp still not ready to introduce their movie-players to the huge European market.

Pioneer, one of the stalwarts of the Blu-ray camp, admitted this week it would not be ready to launch the players by the time of the Sept. 1 to Sept. 6 trade fair IFA in Berlin, the principal European consumer electronics show.

[Cyclonus]

I wonder when we'll hear: "PS3 Launch Delayed Worldwide"

Blu-Ray is having problems across the board...the PS3 has a Blu-Ray drive in it...do the math.

[G_CodeMonkey]

Sony has bitten it so hard with their missteps that they will not delay past the Nov date, unless they have too many bugs. They will NOT miss the Christmas/holiday season. Only if their only option was to ship bricks would they delay it, even if they lose face with their own "red ring of death". gCM

[TheXgamerLive]

As we all still well know, the ps3 is ridden with problems still 2 being the cell isnt a game processor and still is giving terrible yields and most importantly combined with the rsx it's just bottlenecking on most every game that's being played, that's why still today we dont see "ANY" games being played or demo'd "ANYWHERE" for the supposedly soon to be released ps3. It's either on a PC or an (XBOX 360) or is just CGI so until they can play games on it w/o the bottlenecking there wont be a system release. I still will mention last march's fiasco with sony/konami playing MGS4 on an actual and I repeat hand picked ps3 dev. and it bottlenecked every few frames and the guy did nothing but appologize for it and made excusses for it. That video has since disappeared I believe and what a surprise. If anyone still see's it's available to watch please put up a link to it. It was great to see, lol.

Assassins creed on XBOX 360 and PC only for it's release. ps3 still cant handle it.

[kingboy]

Even if its not delayed only the ps3 can give it life end of story ..c u on november

[ACE]

shame ps3 will have a waterd down beta ray in it dont get ur hopes up mate cos its gona be the disapointment of the decade :)

[COVER GIRL]

I wonder if we will ever know the real mess Sony and friends are in right now on the inside, they must be running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

[TheMART]

How is it possible that this would be out in Japan already for 3 years? I read that somewhere.

Anyhow, visuals on HD-DVD are better and that format also just included 1080p.

So no need to wait for BetaBluRay. HD-DVD stand alone is 500 dollars/euro's, BetaBR twice as much... OMG

ANd the HD-DVD add on I think is going to launch for 100 or max 150 dollars/euro's. Just to kick Sony extra hard with the PSZero

[DG]

World hunger and our green gas emittions will forever end...so long as we can harvest the negative energy coming out of The Mart's mouth or keyboard.

KUMBAYA...KUMBAYA....CAN you FEEL THE HATE?

[THELANDSOFSAND]

actually you would do better trying to capture the overwhelmingly negative energy coming from the PS3!

[joemutt]

Just tell us when its ready. In my line of work, I never tell a customer a certain time or date, I know something could come up and I would look bad. I tell them it will be ready when its ready.

These big companies should learn from the ethics of the real "hardworking" man.

[Mikey_Gee]

CRAPPY GAMES .... tisk tisk .... not sure whay you consider a NON-Crappy game, but 360 has some very nice games. I hope the PS3 does well ... I want one ... but to bash the 360 "JUST BECAUSE" .... is really kind of silly.

[DG]

.

[Schmitty07]

HDDVD and Blu-Ray are obsolete right now. I can't see either one of them start to pick up. Most people (including me) do not really care that we can now watch our movies in 1080p or 720p. Oh wait, I don't even have an HDTV yet! Maybe in 5-7 years it will start to pickup, but definently not now.

[Cyclonus]

Which is why Microsoft had the foresight not to FORCE HD-DVD on consumers looking for a GAMES MACHINE; they're making it an OPTION, and an affordable one.

[joemutt]

You will be seriously dissapointed with your PS3 until about 2008.

All these crappy games the 360 has will be ported over to the PS3, and they will magically be great games!

I have a 360 and everytime I hear someone saying how bad the games are, I laugh. I cant keep up with the games. I just bought Oblivion last week. Just finished GRAW last week.

And for people like aricha who keep saying "why arent you playing your 360 then? If its so good?" Well, alot of us work, and I cant really bring it to work with me, I can read about gaming on the net, which is what we do while we wait for 5:00, so we can go play 360.

[joemutt]

I am at home enjoying Next-gen gaming in High-def, unless the yard needs mowing.

[heihoosilver]

it´s marketing.They delay again so betabluray don´t came out till November when they launch crap,delaystation so people buy delaystation insted of betablueray players, people will say,look ps3 is betablueray and is cheaper, i will buy one instead of betablueray. It´s how $ony plans to win HD DVD war.It´s all marketing.

[heihoosilver]

i know that we didn´t bash ps3 and all, but when sonyfans stop bash xbox fans and xbox i start treat sony fans with respect if they respect all xbox fans and xbox.

[DG]

Because all fanboys are idiots!

[heihoosilver]

i know that we shouldn´t bash ps3 and all, but when sonyfans stop bash xbox fans and xbox i start treat sony fans with respect if they respect all xbox fans and xbox.

[ACE]

sony droids are gold fish mate they have a six second memmory, so they keep forgetting how often sony fuk them up the @rse lol :)

sorry dude couldnt help my self ......

[DG]

.

[heihoosilver]

in my country we used to say: he eats were he likes.

[kingboy]

if the 360 really rocked ur world u wouldn`t frequent ps3 news making useless comments which by the way wouldn`t stop me from gettin a ps3..why do u fear that much.. and the truth is without us u will be bored

[JIN KAZAMA]

TheFart, you're just a complete idiot and a joke. Also, very jealous that you are broke and cant afford the PS3.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

i think you will find that intelligence, not jealously, keeps the mart from wanting a PS3.

you, however, jin are a brainwashed fanboy that would support the PS3 if it was a spray-painted turd with a sony logo on it.
and then delayed.

[JIN KAZAMA]

you're the idiot. Your 360 just broke on you a few days ago, and you were posting all your crying about how sad you are that your 360 is broke. You of all people should be pissed at MS. They were amking you pay 128 dollars to fix it.
Still, remember, OverG Fighters, read the reviews, a 5.9 out of ten. this is comming out for your so-called next-gen console, haaha. And you are comparing the launch games of the PS3 and saying its n64 graphics, please. Motorstorm looks better and better, much better than that horrible game grand offRaod ralley or whatevr the name is. Heavenly Sword, looks heavenly, Resistence, looks awesome. WAIT, God Of War 2, looks better than 99% of your crappy 360 games. You guys bought a 400 dollar machine, and the PS2's God of War 2 looks just as good as your 360 games, and better that most of them. HAhah, you losers are too much.

[Schmitty07]

I bet I could go to gamespot and find a lot of games on the PS2 that have 5.9 and LOWER, so you should think before you talk you fanboy! Remember there is more to life than Sony and the PS3

[TheMART]

Jin I think you are Japanese, those guys are as strange as you even wanting a PS64 when they got their @ss ripped up by barbie Ken @ssmate with all the lies in the past.

The games you mention, Motorstorm COME ON that looks like a PS2 game with those dull sparks. WHERE HAS THE CGI FOOTAGE GONE FROM E3 2005? Now answer that one!

And you never played a 360 that's for sure. Even the original xbox beated the hell out of the PS2. The 360 eats it for lunch. Any time.

The PSZero is an overpriced BetaBluRay player. And The Land of Sand is right. Anyone with brains won't choose the PS3.

Anyone still following Sony think of this:

Sony is always overpromising (remember 2 x HDMI, CGI footage Killzone 2/Motorstorm, Emotion Engine and the list goes on)

and underdelivering!

Remember that when you're in front of the 360 also in shops. It'll save you 200 dollars/Euro's and a lot of crying over your own personal emotion engine caused by Sony's lies

[FamoAmo]

Jin- The 360 game line up blows Sony's sequal shi! out the water. No moe GTA and in comes Saints Row!! What PS3 game looks even remotely like GOW or Lost Planet or pREY? I haven't seen 1... Tekken-lol what a dissapointment. Have fun with RIDGE RACER ON release day...lol I'll be playing Saints Row, GOW and just too many to name.lol

[JIN KAZAMA]

Let me tell you what a brainwashed FANOBOY you are, you are defending your BROKEN 360. It broke on you, after 6 months. Thats how brainwashed you are. You are the most idiotic person here. You are literally a complete fool, that even though you got a piece of crap hardware, which broke on you after 6 months, you are still defending it. Come on, arent you tired of being a blind fanboy.

[TheMART]

How many PS2 DVD players broke down? THe 12 year old son of my sister has a collection games he can't play anymore. My own PS2 is in the closet doing nothing, gives constant problems playing games. Many of my friends also have a drive that won't run games anymore.

Where was the emotion engine on the PS2?

Where is the 2 x HDMI, the great CGI footage of Motorstorm and Killzone 2 has gone?

Let me tell you that all Sony fanboys are more brainwashed then any 360 fan. You are defending pure lies. And I can't get it. Land of Sand just got unlucky. I hope all of you get that really bad Cell cpu with only 10 to 20% succesfactor. The cores will break down from 7 to 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... and Sony says: nope, no return, it still works, doesn't it?

That's Sony there you go. Have it for 600 Dollars

The PS64 has sh*tty games. The 360 launch line up was better for sure.

And the best thing is. It's only going to matter what games there are this Christmas.
Nothing touches Gears of War, a system seller. Don't forget 160 games for 360. Games sell the system and the PS64 is a disaster.

Prepare for another delay

[ironwolf]

Just ran across info that the PS3 is not delayed because of BluRay. The BluRay is delayed because the PS3 line is absorbing all available laser diodes. However, this is from a source of unknown reliability.

[Mikey_Gee]

AND ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS NOT NOTICED YET.

Many topics on this site are "CROSSED" topics. So for example, I am NOT visiting the PS3 area of this site, HOWEVER ... this topic

"Blu-ray launch delayed in Europe" is accessable throught the PS3 side of things as well as the XBOX360 side of things.

THE SAME ARTICLE WITH THE SAME COMMENTS are viewable and accessable from BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE.

So if the topic is indeed what this one is "A CROSS-OVER TOPIC" you can see / read / and comment from either the PS3 section "OR the 360 section ..... it does not mean that 360 fans are in the PS3 area or Visa-Versa.

some are TRIPLE CROSS-OVER (PC/PS3/360)

I can't believe some of you still did not realize this.

SO stop with the "Why come here and bash if your not a fan and stick to your own console section" CRAP !!

"I AM NOW IN THE 360 SECTION" ...

Keep watching below for the big surprise (smell the sarcasm)

[JIN KAZAMA]

read this "if the 360 really rocked ur world u wouldn`t frequent ps3 news making useless comments" where does it say, this particular article. Read it carefully, think about it, and then comment on it.

[TheMART]

wrong place, wrong time

[Mikey_Gee]

** POOF **

Only a few clicks and VOILA !!!

Now I am in the PS3 section, but guess what .... my comment will also seen if you visit this topic from the 360 site.

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

PS3 fans are dumb as dirt...

[achira]

you should be calm, your intelligence does not surpace the intelligence of bread.

[Mikey_Gee]

Don't try and pretend you didn't make the mistake.
Come on bro ........... :-)
Rather than being so defensive, try having a laugh from time to time.
This is not meant to bash, just inform.
And if you read mine, I clearly stated I used this article as an EXAMPLE.

I love my 360, and look foward to my PS3 ... I like to come to these sites for INFORMATION ... not because I hate my 360 and don't want to play it. Anyone who can't pull themselves away from their console for a bit need some SERIOUS HELP.

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

How many parents are going to buy a 600$ console for their begging kids at christmas.

If PS3 doesn't drop to atleast 400$, Sony will rot and die.

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

#23 i was agreeing with you. I hate it; when Sony fanboy's tell me to get out of PS3 land when it's Industry news and even if it wasn't it's people's right to read the news on what they wan't.

[Mikey_Gee]

I know that.

My comment was to #20.1

Sorry for the mix-up

[REDMOND BOYZZ]

Lost planet is the most under-rated game in history the game is truly Next-Gen, a real modern day Contra. I just thought i'd say that to anybody that hasn't seen the game video or played the Demo.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

JIN KAZAMA
quit talking about my broken 360 as if MS deliberately broke it! what is your point? I played the hell out of my system, the drive door broke, I was very sad, I spoke to MS and after arguing over paying $129, a manager called me today and offered a full free repair. end of story dipsh1t!

So yet again, I will be playing lovely next-gen games while you sit with your wired controller and play god of war for the millionth time.

when PS3 arrives, after its delays, and after all the shortages, in January 2007, you will pay $600+ for your system with its n64 graphics and half-assed online service. you will probably play god of war from the PS2 on it alot. you will be disappointed, but by then i will be too busy with Gears Of War and Saints Row to notice.

[JIN KAZAMA]

After you get your refurbished 360 back. Haha, what a nut you are, defending your broken 360. Thats horrible. N64 graphics?? Take a look at the launch lineup of the 360. it was truly pathetic. It still is. OverG fighters, hahahha.

[JIN KAZAMA]

After arguing, the manager called you and offered a free repair. haha, you are the dumb dipSh!t idiot. For defending a 400 dollars piece of crap that broke on you after 6 months, yea, real smart there.

[The BS Police]

Look at your pathetic launch titles, Tekken 6, hahahaha.

The XBOX 360 had 21 games at launch day.

N64 graphics, hahahahahahaha.

You should be a stand up comedian JIN(sarcasm).

Go play your imaginary PS3!

I got two free repairs for my XBOX 360 (one of them for the HDD) and I never had to argue once!

[THELANDSOFSAND]

if you thought the 360 launch was bad you are going to cry like a b1tch when you see the PS3 games!

lol

and yet, i find playing Live arcade titles and demos is more fun than anything the PS2 can offer. I guess a broken xbox is better than any sony product!

and yes, over g fighters is not good, what is your point? the reviews should prepare you for motorstorm!

[achira]

this says how crappy the xcrapbox is, two times broken, hahahaha what a joke, its the crappest hardware ever !!! you xbots are so pathetic and idiotic, hahaaa fooooooooooools.

[Ugly American]

I have had a 360 since launch. If it broke right now, I would still want to play my games. They ARE good games in my opinion. My OPINION. The customer service for the 360 has improved greatly over the original Xbox of which I bought three in 6 months.

OverG SUCKS. I am not sure who was hyping it besides the guy at my local GameStop. Gun was a dirty, dirty port. But Tomb Raider is awesome. PDZ, as you make fun of it, is pretty good. COD2 wouldn't run on my old PC and works great on my 360. But wait, doesn't Sony keep saying that the PS3 is just a PC?

I will accept that the PS3 will have some great games. You need to learn to accept that the 360 has some good games, and there are some killer games on the horizon. Games are SUPPOSED to be fun. They aren't supposed to work you up into some Fanboy, Mega-Corporation Frenzy. That goes for a lot of people on ALL sides of the fence.

I have no desire to get angry and worked up over video games. That happens enough when I get my butt kicked on HALO 2. And when I get home, I will be playing some GRAW. I will be just as excited to play some PS3 games when they announce some to be excited about.

[achira]

you are right noone should get angry because of a console. but if you always must read such people like theMart, i want a shutgun.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

JIN KAZAMA: "hi sony, i just bought a PS3, but it just seems like a PS2. the games look the same, the online service is laggy and expensive, there are no good blu-ray movies, the games cost $75 and the console really is over priced"

Sony Customer Service: "Well, dummy, what did you expect, its not like there weren't 20 million articles all over the net saying that"

JIN KAZAMA: "But I love you! Sony, noooooooooooo"

Sony Customer Service: "If you pay us another $200 we may make a good console for you and put all the features we promised in."

JIN KAZAMA: "Okay! God I love you Sony!" uhhhh *orgasms*

Sony Customer Service: "I was only kidding dumb@ss! hahaha! Now go play God Of War, its the best we have for PS3."

JIN KAZAMA: *incoherent sobbing about how PS3 is the greatest thing ever* "Mommmy!!!!! they stole my moneeeeey!"

[Cyclonus]

well done.

[OutLaw]

That was some funny reading. You're pretty good when you want to stick it to someone.

Thanks for the laugh.

[TheMART]

That's how I know Jinny boy!

LoS you could go and write a book called:

Barbie Ken's @ssmates fanboys

;)

Also Jin go watch yourself together with the know die hard Freaking Fony Fanboys ssj/lametime/achira/nj and more:

http://www.pwned.nl

or hear yourself at:

http://web.utk.edu/~ascott9...

[achira]

i can only say: pooor full idiot. how can someone like you survive only one day ???

i am sure if you call the ms service, they will know already your name, because your xcrapbox get broked the 100th time.

[kingboy]

ps3 is for grown up folks ..stop b@tching around when ur not gonna buy the console.lol and nobody cares if u`ve got or like a 360 my friend.You guys jump in here post bullsh*t comments about ps3 this ..that..lol we`v never ever given a F@ck about ur @ss from day one .who is the B@tch now all over sony news looking for that little hope?Bored as hell ,come here saying sh*t when u should be on live right now

[THELANDSOFSAND]

grown up folks like you? or perhaps gametime, NJ or Jin!

[JIN KAZAMA]

First, the BSIdiot, you are defending your console and saying, that you got 2 free repairs, you are not looking at the big picture dumbass. Your 360 borke on you twice within a year, your so dumb. You have a refurbished 360, and who knows whats going to break next. And you are happy that you didnt have to argue to get it fixed, god you are too simple minded for me to even educate you.
Now, for the other village idiot. You just made up this little scenerio about my calling the PS3 helpdesk. Well, BlandOfSpam, your case was actually TRUE, you cried to them LIKE a little baby, that your crapbox didnt work and ate up your DVD's. They treated you like a punk and now you ahve to pay 128 dollars to get it fixed. haha, oh wait, they are going to fix it for free, riight. And you are still dumb enough, stupid enough, and idiotic enough to defend your BROKEN 360. What a loser. You have went to a level of foolishness that no one can beat. Defending a company that sold you a broken 360, and then making you pay 128 dollars, plus shipping. You are pathetic. It just tells you how die hars the 360 fanboys are, and how stupid

[THELANDSOFSAND]

lol, no i said to customer service my drive broke and i'm not paying for it. and guess what?

i'm not!

[JIN KAZAMA]

Shut up and stare at your BROKEN 360. Just stare at it, I know thats what you do all day long.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

lol

go stare at your PS2 games, i know you want to!

you see, my 360 will be fixed soon, while the PS3 will always be lame.

anyway, i'm going to go fu(k my super hot wife, shes insistant.

so ttyl!

[JIN KAZAMA]

I AM NOT DONE WITH HER YET. LET ME FINISH

[THELANDSOFSAND]

lol

put your mom down!

[THE TRUTH]

Let's read what some developers have to say about Blu ray in PS3's

Quote:
"The Darkness" developer:
Quote:
Xbox360 a splendid console is, but a thing must I lost, which is the problem of rise medium, DVD therefore and also already becomes the gebagataliseerd, it is simply a problem nothing more and nothing less.

Team Ninja:
Quote:
We have 2 choose observations concerning Microsoft decide for DVD.
The limited developers, 9 GB are simply too a little. The more so if you as developer HD cut want sceens to a game add, and these HD cut sceens are certainly important, they form and important component of the tale in the game. It is ironical that Microsoft really quote always that their console HD console are but then they would have had choose drager simply also for HD.
Point two. It us will not surprise if over a year or 2 xbox360/1 on the market comes with built in HD dvd or Blu Ray driver.

"Enchant arm" developer:
These developer are with the game "Enchant busy arm" RPG, and sit already with its hands in proverbial her.
Quote:
We hoped that we would get the game on 2 DVD's, but themselves seems that now already impossible, there probably 3 will will become. Every old school gamer can you tell that switching the disc is during the game simply not nice and it disturbs in the complete experienceexperience experience.

Vivendi Universal, Michael Heilmann, chief technology officer of Vivendi Universal.:
Quote:
The technical needs of the gamedevelopers shouts simply for more sophisticated rise media.
Blu ray give that kwantiteit, performances and speed which we have necessary us.

Electronic doctor:
Quote:
The coming games are HD and it is vital that Sony for this Blu have chosen ray.
Blu Ray give the capacity, functionality and interactivity which we have necessary for us the projects which we have in development.

Ninja theory:
Quote:
Seriously the games will beelden a lot of dates for all levels character tussenfilmpjes and HD, and AAA necessary have, certainly for the games which we have in planning. Sony showed during the presentation that the rise medium Blu Ray 100 time was this way it the complete Main ram. To show that DVD have not enough rise a game such as we do not want make accommodate to be able, and we must admit; that is also this way. Yes, we will have certainly know Blu ray necessary.

Mark clean:
Quote:
Unreal tournament 6 GB "had been wrapped up".
Next generation games ordinary 20 GB will be, and more.
How we must get this on 9GB DVD, I it simply know certainly several DVD's will will become.
On PS3 do not have occupy our with that.

Toriyama of Square-Enix;
Quote:
We have had discussions internally and Blu Ray for PS3 chosen to bring out FF XIII there on, DVD are ordinary not well enough the games we want which make with the type visual expression what we want XIII use in FF.
Also the shader possibilities of PS3 that better are if that of Xbox360 an important role gespeelt have.

F1 developers.
Quote:
PS2 sits simply to be on the screen limit with 22 cars. But PS3 really an enormous step is forward, which thing is an animal!!
We pump enormously much graphische details in the game, but also in everything, not only the cars also the surroundings. To give yourself just as an idea, 1 car on PS3 uses as much memory as all 22 cars on our last F1 game on PS2 together. That is simply it 22 voudige.
You even damages to the sidepods are able see you are possible and can look at you in the cars, all details are simply present. Also the gameplay a large change will undergo. It demands an enormous mount to dates, no we are with BLu ray very glad.

Ubisoft
Quote:
Ours focus lies 100% on Blu Ray, I can draw no agreement with Hd-dvd but this rise media will be used provisionally also not yet for games, Blu ray however already right from the beginning. Blu Ray are real awesome.
The capacity is incredible, the dates transfer Rate much are larger if we have so far got used, certainly larger as at DVD. And that is more important if it seems.
Dates streaming the narrowest manner is next-gen lift games to new level. THE HDD to find we not this way important, but we knew also not yet certain or this standard in PS3 would sit that is now, however, this way. We use rather the streaming technique, but HDD would give the possibility you to store your complete played game and him later still to look back, as a type of selfmade "move".
We still play with that idea.

You can conclude according to me, however, that what is all now said Microsoft and in the media that Blu ray belangijk are not simply not where is.
Because those make the those games its clearly another opinion mattered.

............................. .....

more info I have about Blu Ray

noticed that this thread is made as an official thread for PS3 and Blu-Ray and that the discussion in this thread have to continue in this thread here. Yet, I noticed that the discussion in this thread is bit different from the other thread. What exactly is the topic of this thread relatively to the one in the other thread?

Anyway, I am more interested in how well Blu-Ray would work for PS3 relatively to the way DVD9 work for Xbox 360. The discussion in the other thread, initially about DVD9 having too limited spaces, brought a bit of attention to stuff like procedural synthesis which is used as a big data compression to help with DVD9's limited spaces.

From what I have read from Hypx's post, having plenty of storage spaces from Blu-Ray can save game publishers a lot of money that can't be realized if DVD(s) (in general?) are used. The way it work, every single audio track for every single language can be put in, effectively create one version of the game for every single region and that it is less of a hassle to deal with one version rather than multiple versions. From what I have read about .hack//G.U., the English version of it won't have Japanese voice-over something about not having enough spaces though from what I have further read, it actually got enough spaces for Japanese voice-over or can use better compression method to get enough spaces. Potentially, Blu-Ray will allow in multiple languages for the Playstation 3 games which is more appealing than just one language which can have a huge negative impact (Shenmue 2 for Xbox for example was known to have terrible English voice acting and that the Japanese voice-over, which wasn't supported, was desperately needed in order to handle the English voice acting).

Blu-Ray, with larger storage space capacity, can allow in more high quality FMVs than DVD9. I am aware that the video codec used for Xbox 360 allowed in lots of FMVs in high resolutions (plenty of endings for Dead or Alive 4 for example), but sometimes it may not be enough that more spaces is needed in order to handle that which is where Blu-Ray can come in. For some of people who believe that FMVs aren't important, they should take note that it was one of the main reasons why Playstation beat Nintendo 64 and that Final Fantasy VII got higher score from using FMVs to show Mako Cannon, Weapons and the ending in action.

While procedural synthesis was brought up as a big data compression method used to save the DVD9, Hypx pointed out that it can potentially do the opposite. Basically, it can be used to create huge detailed worlds which would take up more spaces than the way procedural synthesis would be used for current-generation-based games (games that are not necessary considered to be next-generational as they don't represent the leap from previous generation to the next). At this time, I don't see the limit to how detailed a world can be created on a Xbox 360 game using procedural synthesis so I'm not sure on how well more spaces from Blu-Ray would be needed, using procedural synthesis, to create detailed world than Xbox 360 may normally allow.

Hypx also brought up Megatexturing, in development by Carmack, as a way to create a world without a repetition of textures (no tiling method is needed) and without using much memory spaces. The way it work, one large texture is used to cover an entire world, allowing it to be truly detailed, and is directly streamed from the disk or HDD so the whole world may not be necessary loaded in in order to view a small part of it, taking up much less memory spaces. According to Carmack, the Megatexture is extremely large in size even when compressed, so Blu-Ray would be more needed in order to handle that much spaces than DVD9.

I have yet to see Hypx to Vampirtc's counterpoints which I would like to see. Reason for this is in one of his counterpoint, he asked where would the Megatexture would be stored which I didn't understand. The way Megatexturing work and applied to the use of Blu-Ray, only a small amount of spaced would be loaded into system memory (RAM or HDD) directly streamed from the source (Blu-Ray) so they wouldn't necessary to be squeezed into 512MB of memory in overall.

............................. .........

For faster loading times, Blu-Ray got better seeking capability, by having better seeking time and capability to read multiple sectors at once,allowing it to find the data quickly requested by a game so it can start loading that data quickly so it can potentially greatly reduce the load times. By having more spaces, the files needed to be loaded need not be greatly compressed to the point that it would take lots of processing power and time in order to decompressed for use.

For making the game longer, it's up to developers to set how long a game is and how much resources they need to make it that long. For example, a role-playing game that rely heavily on FMVs would need as much spaces as needed in order to have those FMVs in. It also would need as much resources, requiring as much spaces as needed, in order to have the storyline as long and completed as needed, stuff like many cities/towns, dungeons, character models, voice acting and stuff like that.

............................. ..........

Just some info to be debated

[JIN KAZAMA]

Dude, who are you QUOTING, YODA???
Whats with all the sentences being all scrabled and misspelled!!
That was funny as hell.
For example
"Xbox360 a splendid console is, but a thing must I lost, which is the problem of rise medium, DVD therefore and also already becomes the gebagataliseerd, " what the hell is that!!
but I get your point, but damn, its just funny reading some of that.

[THE TRUTH]

I apologize for the horrible wording, I was just trying to add some spice to the debate about PS3's blu ray technology.

[TheMART]

That's a Dutch guy, he made up all the things that are here...

I read multiple Dutch words in his txt. That's funny

[JIN KAZAMA]

Its been 2 minutes, you should be back by now. haha

[THELANDSOFSAND]

um, no, back now loser!

do you not have sex or something? or maybe thats the length of time you and your mom manage? poor old lady, give her more Jin!

[Cyclonus]

Enchant Arms IS ON ONE DISC!

"The most contraversial part of the 360 has been disc space. I mean obvously DVD's dont hold enough space, I mean look at GTA it took up a whopping 3 gigs.
/Sarcasm

In my daily internet searches I came across this Japanese website X's Network. MS has been taking hits from gamers and devs for not having enough Disc space. Devs on [eM] -eNCHANT arM a former launch title in japan, have been saying the game is easily filling up 2 DVDs!!! Well looks like MS was wrong about DVDs being enough right?
Wrong.

Take a look at the display box for [eM] -eNCHANT arM:"

http://xbox360.qj.net/-eM-e...

Looks like the game is now only one disc. Have the Devs started using WMV-HD to compress the CG videos? or have they realized that DVDs can have 2 layers?

"Disc space looks like a non issue for this new gen so far, but Sony and there push to get Blu-ray into your house over HD-DVD would have you believe other wise."

PWNED.

You are now Officially: "THE FALSE"

[JIN KAZAMA]

you're an idiot

[JIN KAZAMA]

you post is so dumb, it just shows how dumb you are. you're taking an article whcih was posted in 2005. "Posted Dec 26, 2005" and bringing it up here. and also, taking 1 damn game and generalizing. Think about it you numbnut. The games down the line are going to be huge, this is just one game. And some former launch title in japan, so shut the hell up and quit trying to find a needle in a haystack to support your dumbass arguements.

[TheMART]

The Truth is a Dutch guy, he made up all the things that are here...

I read multiple Dutch words in his txt. That's funny

The Truth is a lying dude

[Cyclonus]

*gets out "Human to SonyTroll Dictionary"*

"Here is a fact, you're an idiot"

Translation: "I have no intelligent response to your factual post, so I'll just make a lame comeback and attack you, instead of your argument."

you fail.

[JIN KAZAMA]

you post is so dumb, it just shows how dumb you are. you're taking an article whcih was posted in 2005. "Posted Dec 26, 2005" and bringing it up here. and also, taking 1 damn game and generalizing. Think about it you numbnut. The games down the line are going to be huge, this is just one game. And some former launch title in japan, so shut the hell up and quit trying to find a needle in a haystack to support your dumbass arguements.

[pRo loGic II]

Any game that goes over 20GB this gen, really, really needs to:

A. Look into compression.

B. Be the best damn game the world has ever seen and will see for the next two decades.

[pRo loGic II]

360 has an upgradable Harddrive and the way things are looking any disc might be a waste.

[shoota33]

360 has upgradable this upgradable that.All xbox 360 seems to be is an upgrade from xbox 1.0 there for it is an xbox 1.5

[THELANDSOFSAND]

PS3 has endless delay. delay this delay that.All PS3 seems to be is a delay from PS2. there for it is an PS2.5

is that clear enough in in sony troll language? my dialect is rusty...

[achira]

when was the ps3 delayed you fool ??? the european get it earlier, the usa get it when expected, and only the japanese get the delaytion. so what is your problem you fool ?

[NJ1307RS]

Cyclonus, and THELANDOFSAND are both 8-10 year olds. Anyway its quite obvious the PS3 will make the 360 look like the next dreamcast, it already looks that way in stores, but most importantly is the fact the 360 STILL hasn't passed the 4 million mark. That's sad. Also people here are overeacting because, why waste you're breath, when everyone knows the xbox 360 is a flop, no seriously it is, just go to any store that sells one and you'll see. I forgot to mention that the PS3 will be the best selling game system of this generation. Five years from now when the new generation is starting you can quote what I just said, that will be all for now.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

hey there mr. racist liar,

oh let me count the ways we don't give a sh1t about your opinion

get back to your mom and your kkk meetings

[NJ1307RS]

Go back to Playing with you're 360, oh wait I forgot its broken, too bad maybe next time you will make a wiser choice. BTW everyone can tell you're 10.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

LOL

i can play my 360- its the drive thats broken
;)

i think everyone can tell you like to call people the N word. you have sh1t for brains, probably a result of inbreeding.

[NJ1307RS]

You just proved you're 10. Also you're 360 is nothing more than a broken piece of plastic and I don't use the N word.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

my 360? I can't load discs, but all my Live arcade games and demos play fine, as do all my MP3s and videos!

Myself and The Real Deal have seen you post using the N word. You are a lying b1tch about your finaces, you are a racist.

so get back to your kkk meetings, because we dont want to hear your retarded lies anymore.

i am 24. you act like a 3 year old. i know because i have one.

[achira]

oh your crapbox is broken ??? dont cry kiddy, you are not the only one who bought the crap and doesnt play it because its broken and boring.

[Daewoodrow]

"so you know its you I was replying to dipSh!t"

He knows you were replying to him because your comment was indented under his. That is because you pressed "reply" to his post.
What are you twelve?

[NJ1307RS]

I doubt you're 24, you spend far too much time in this website to have a kid, and I don't lie about my finances. Finally I never said the N word, and if you think I did show me that post. 10 year olds they don't know when to quit.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

i don't give a sh1t about what you think, i'm 24, you act like my 3 year old daughter! or maybe my 11 month old, yes i have two little girls. i'm sorry you have achieved so little in your life.

&&you lied about your income repeatedly! OLD NEWS! STOP LYING!

your n-word post was erased for being offensive, though the real deal replied about it. he will confirm this. I know you know this. you are such a lying b1tch. i will go find the thread if you really want to look more stupid.

you are pathetic.

[achira]

he is 8 years old, and a sun of peter more ! sorry for the insultion. hihi

[pRo loGic II]

$600.00 with out game/tax/good exclusive's/extra pad. PS3 has (B)-Drive with (B)-disc that most can't use but will cost them. This is what the average shopper will know; come Christmas time. Lets not forget about the topic, why do they keep delaying this technoligy, are they so scared of going the way of the DOE-DOE that their going to launch all Sony's (B)-players at the same time as PS3 so people will say (well we can upgrade to (B)lu-Ray with the PS3 because we need to buy other Xmas gifts)IF it wasn't for brand loyalty PS3 would go the way of the Neo-Geo instantly!, instead of being dragged along bleeding to death by PS3's hardcore fans. "gamtime" all console's are upgraded it's how theire more advanced the the previous one, with the exeption of PS3's downgraded games and controller and non-upgradable tard-version of the PS3.

[NJ1307RS]

I'm not Sony but I do defend the PS3. I also strongly believe according to my sources the PS3 will have no problem selling out on Christmas. Before my sources said on 2008 the PS3 will outsell the 360 but now they are pointing more towards late 2007. That can't be good for MS.

[NJ1307RS]

Did I say you where a 10 year old, I meant 9. My sources are also 94% accurate.

[THE TRUTH]

** moved to bottom **

[shoota33]

xbox 360 =updated graphics THATS IT!! That = not next gen.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

PS3=N64 graphics

[pRo loGic II]

What the fu*k are you talking about?.

[pRo loGic II]

So is upgraded better than downgraded?...lol

[shoota33]

If ps3 is so downgraded why is everyone waiting for it and leaving pyramids of crapbox 1.5's in every store.

[Eternal E 808]

please show me proof(pictures) that theres pyramids of 360's around other than japan,because all i been hearing is that 360s are sold out all around the US.prove me wrong of pictures or a liable source.lol how you alway say " pyramids of crapbox 1.5's in every store"i wanna see this because im from hawaii and every place i go that sells 360s are all sold out.

[NJ1307RS]

And I'm from New York City and there are a lot of xbox 360's lying around the stores, yes pyramids of them.

[Eternal E 808]

i like when you said "according to my sources"LOL what sources are you talking about other than what sony says?

[NJ1307RS]

The gaming industry, top employes from different gaming companies, Gaming managers in the industry, and different analysts that study the gaming industry every single day.

[TheMART]

Ofcourse NJ, we all still know you made 25 logins to vote cool @ PSZero articles and lame on 360 ones. Oh yeah and you make 8.50 dollar a month pocketmoney... oh no 85.000 dollars a month doing shares, but not from MS because you hate them. You should have invested in MS that's the one going up, not Sony hahaha they are only loosing money, taking large bank loans and will be in a constant debt from now on if not bankrupt!

[pRo loGic II]

PS3 will sell out at launch, agreed.

[NJ1307RS]

Almost everyone who has a PS2, wants the most cutting edge next-gen platform, or is pissed off at Microsoft. That's a lot of people.

[pRo loGic II]

Brand loyalty and it's the best on the market because Sony said so. And i don't know why there's stacks of crap box1.5's, are they real.lol

[achira]

brand yoalty ? no. everyone looks forward for insane games you fool. the only one who have the youalty are the sun of peter moore (theLandsofSake) and the sun of steve balmer (theMart). both only 8 years old and the stupidest kiddies on earth.

[pRo loGic II]

Are you a racist?.

[NJ1307RS]

No

[THELANDSOFSAND]

see posts 124/125

[shoota33]

yes they are real.You dont understand there are pyramids of them in EVERY store.Obviously no one wants one.

[Eternal E 808]

i would belive you if they were all green boxes.

[shoota33]

I dont care if you believe me or not.Its shows no one buys it because your piece of crap xbox 1.5 has only sold 4 million units in 8 months.

[TheMART]

First of all it's not out 8 months.

Second of all, it sold 3.2 million pieces at the end of March. Average number of 360's sold only in USA from that month on are 250.000.

250.000 x 3 months (april/may/june) makes 750.000

3.2 million + 750.000 makes 4 million alone. Then we forgot Europe/Australia and the rest of the world. That sells 350.000 easily, if not up to 600.000 in total. Let's take it safe:

3 x 350.000 = 1.050.000

plus the 4 million I just calculated for you
There you have it

5 million !

[NJ1307RS]

I live in New York and there are 360's everywhere, gametime has a point.

[OutLaw]

I live here in New York, grew up in the Bronx and now settled down in Manhattan and I have to say that there are no boxes stacked up like a pyramid here. Anybody who believes that is a moron. I mean, come on I live in the Mecca, the Big Apple, the city that never sleeps and we are going to pass up on a great system like the 360. NJ1307RS I usually don't get down on you about anything but cut the Bullsh!t you probably live in New Jersey that's what NJ stands for. Please don't ever come up about the Big NY I will shoot you down everytime you lie!

[NJ1307RS]

The NJ just makes it look cool. Also there are tons of 360's here in Manhattan, New York. Admit it its true.

[OutLaw]

Name the stores that you saw these pyramids of 360 (and they better not be display boxes) and you better come correct because I do business at most of these stores and I also know alot of the employees in these electronic stores.

[TheMART]

The Land of Sand is reported every time by NJ because LoS is saying something that's true. I know, because the last time that NJ used 25 logins and I told this around the website, he reported me constantly untill he saw he couldn't convince anyone anymore.

You're a plain loser my friend

[big b]

Every where I go 360s are sold out...but if you are telling the truth that there are pyramids of 360s in stores.Iam guessing it is because of the price of the 360,Because I have a few friends that have families and cant afford to spend four hundred bucks on a console...So can you guess how many ps3s are going to be in stores if people cant afford 360s

[PS360PCROCKS]

I just wanted to post this around how moronic this kid is so we can get him booted from this website

4 - Give me a break look at the Xbox 360 its white and nobody

Horse Piss - 24 Minutes ago

Is complaining about that being racist people in America can just tare out there balls and d1ck off cause they are so retarded in so many way's they say Sony is being racist look what there doing they'er picking on the Japanese thier the one that is truly being racist jackass! morons!.
Reply | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Spam/Offensive

[pRo loGic II]

Cutting edge" is losely thrown around when it comes to Sony, i guess it's "so" cutting edge; it's before it's time and can't be yelded, or built properly and has to be downgraded in every erea of the console. I trust MS so im not one of those people that must have the so called "BEST" Sony comes across as If-comercial sale's men.

[Eternal E 808]

if it was the green boxes yeah i would belive you because its the core package and no one realy buys the core pack so yeah i belive you if its the green boxes.

[shoota33]

Just admit it sony has the better console.If you except it know the less harder it will be on you when sony destroys MS in perfomance and sales.

[NJ1307RS]

The xbox 360 is overhyped as well. I had one and it wan't as good as microsoft would wan't you to believe. Not even close.

[Eternal E 808]

wait and see how overhyped the PS3 will be,but the thing is i aint buying one or aint planing on having one.

[NJ1307RS]

Maybe it deserves all that hype.

[TheMART]

Ofcourse NJ, we all still know you made 25 logins to vote cool @ PSZero articles and lame on 360 ones. Oh yeah and you make 8.50 dollar a month pocketmoney... oh no 85.000 dollars a month doing shares, but not from MS because you hate them. You should have invested in MS that's the one going up, not Sony hahaha they are only loosing money, taking large bank loans and will be in a constant debt from now on if not bankrupt!

[pRo loGic II]

They stepped up the production of the 360's and it's Summer, at $400 a pop and the KIll line-up a ways away only an dirt cheap console like the PS2 will sale in the slow season. Just wait i'm alost sure the 360 will sale like it did at it's launch. 360 and Wii will be the console this Xman because the PS3 will be sold out.

[shoota33]

Keep dreaming if you think xbox will sell this holiday season as much as it did as its launch.
ps3 will be the talk of chrismas

[shoota33]

Gears of war and halo are prime example's of pure hpye.

[Eternal E 808]

but theirs a differentce them 2 games will live up to the hype,unlike most of the PS3 games.gears or halo3 never barked louder than there byte like what PS3 devs did,actions speak loader than words and halos sales did that and will do it again.

[pRo loGic II]

These games you speak of; deserves and have earned there Hype in one way or the other rather it be past successes or proven to be a hit at E3.

[Optimus Prime]

yea it sure will, not. it will be sold over all over, the 360 will sell way more over the xmas break. you are dumb, people arent gunna pay that much for their kids for a game system, unless they are pretty wealthy. the price will turn them off, then there is the wii and 360 waiting for them. plus gears of war, and halo 3 beat all your exclusives. your just jealous that they arent on the ps3. lol, i like the pic, that is on the 360 too. haha

[pRo loGic II]

I don't like PS so it will never be better to me, in the end; this is what we above average gamer's fight over. Im stuck in the past in knowing PS is always cheap and has always had sub-par qaulity. If i had the only 360 in the USA and Dev's were still pumping out hits i could care lees about the PS3, the console war has me hooked because these are exciting times in the home entertainment world, i just got caught up in this bull.

[THE TRUTH]

let me prove to you about the PS3's value so we can end this debate and move-on.

Playstation 3 and Xbox360 – Comparing and Contrasting:
Before I compare and contrast with the Xbox360 hardware, here are some quick facts about the Xbox360 hardware:
Xbox360 Quick Hardware Summary:
The Xbox360 has a tri-symmetrical core CPU. Each one of the cores is based on the POWER architecture like the PPE inside the Cell, and is clocked at 3.2GHz. Each core has 32kb L1 instruction and 32kb LI data cache, and has a 1MB shared L2 cache. Each chip also sports an enhanced version of the VMX-128 instruction set and execution units. This enhanced version expands the register file from 32 128-bit registers, to a pair of 128 128-bit registers – with one execution unit per core. Each of these cores can also dual-issue instruction and handles two hardware threads, bringing the Xbox360 thread total to 6 hardware threads. The CPU and GPU share 512MB of GDDR3 RAM. Xbox360’s GPU, codenamed “Xenos” is designed by ATI and sports 48 shader pipelines using a unified shader architecture. The Xbox360 GPU also has 10MB of eDRAM for the frame buffer and over 200GB/s of bandwidth between this eDRAM and a simple logic uni, for a limited set of 3D processing effects such as anti-aliasing and z-buffering.

The system sports a DVD9 optical media drive from which games are loaded, a controller with rumble features, and 100mbps Ethernet.

Head To Head:
General Architecture Differences:
One thing I think is important when looking at CPU architecture is visuals. In the world of computing, physical distance between parts of a computer system generally corresponds with the speed (latency-wise) of their communication,

Bandwidth Assessment:
I recall an article IGN released short after or during E3 2005 comparing Playstation 3 and Xbox360. Microsoft analyzed their total system bandwidth in the Xbox360 and came up with some outrageous numbers compared to the Playstation 3. One of the big reasons for this total number being higher is the 256GB/s bandwidth between the daughter die and parent die in the Xenos(graphics chip). I will explain the use of the eDRAM memory later, but it is important to know that the logic performed between those two components with 256GB/s bandwidth hardly constitutes a system component where considering game processing takes place. Additionally, Microsoft added up bandwidths that weren’t relevant to major component destinations such as “to CPU” or “to GPU.” Context like that matters a lot, because bandwidth between any two elements is only as fast as the slowest memory bus in-between. The only bandwidth figures that make sense to add together are those on separate buses to the end destination.

The biggest ugly (and this really is a big one) in the Xbox360 diagram should be the location of the CPU relative to the main system memory. It has to be accessed through the GPU’s memory controller. The Xbox360 GPU’s memory has 22.4GB/s bandwidth to the system’s unified memory, and this bandwidth is split between the GPU’s needs and the CPU’s. A simple investigation would show that if the Xenon(Xbox360 CPU) was using its full 21.6GB/s bandwidth to system memory, there would be 800MB/s left for the GPU. If the GPU was using it’s full bandwidth to this memory, none would be left for anything else. Additionally, the southbridge(I/O devices) is connected through the GPU also, and all of these devices are actually destined to go to the CPU unless sound for the Xbox360 is done on the Xenos. The impact of this is considerably less since I/O devices probably won’t exceed more than a few hundred MB/s during a game, and isn’t shared by GPUs 22.4GB/s access to main memory. This bandwidth is still going through the same bus that the CPU uses to access RAM though.

Looking at the diagram of the Playstation 3, you can see that the RSX has a dedicated 22.4 GB/s to its video memory, and the Cell has a dedicated 25.6GB/s to its main memory. Additionally, if you wanted to find the bandwidth the RSX could use from the Cell’s main memory, it go through the 35GB/s link between the Cell and itself, and then go through the Cell processor’s FlexIO controller, on the EIB, to the Cells memory controller which is the gatekeeper to RAM. The slowest link in the line is the bandwidth the XDR memory controller provides which is 25.6GB/s. If the RSX uses this extra bandwidth it is being shared with the Cell. In general though, the major components in the Playstation 3 have their own memory to work with which provides maximum bandwidth.

In terms of peak performance, if both the GPU and CPU for both consoles were pushing the maximum bandwidths from their respective memory banks, the total for Xbox360 would be 22.4GB/s, and the total for the Playstation 3 would be 48GB/s. I believe this to be the most important bandwidth measure as both of these elements are the major programmable elements of a gaming machine. They will be processing game data or graphics data independently, and need fast access and high bandwidth to what they are working on.

While the Xbox360 shared bandwidth is a big downside on the grand scheme of things considering potential, Microsoft probably allowed this due to the nature of a game loops often not involving both the CPU and GPU needing high bandwidth simultaneously. Overall, during a game loop, Xbox360 will probably use its 22.4GB/s bandwidth almost constantly due to the CPU using it heavily for a part of the game loop, and the GPU using extreme bandwidth during another part of the game loop. While a Playstation 3 game, if it uses a typical game loop design, would show half of the frame time, the CPU is using high bandwidth to its memory, the other half being mostly unused; and the same thing for the GPU’s use of video RAM. That isn’t a disadvantage of the Playstation 3’s part, but it is a lack of using its full potential. A modified game loop that kept both rendering and CPU processing high would fare far better on the Playstation 3’s bandwidth and design than the Xbox360.

In the worst case scenario for the Playstation 3, if the GPU literally only used bandwidth for half of the game loop, overtime, you could consider it’s bandwidth to be half of its peak. Same thing applied to the Cell and XDR RAM would yield 12.8GB/s bandwidth if it only used XDR half of the time. Although Playstaiton 3 not to be outdone - if the situation of a game loop is like this, the RSX might as well take the XDR RAM bandwidth while the CPU is idling and increase its total bandwidth to 48GB/s.

Xbox360 “Xenon” compared to Playstation 3’s “Cell” – the CPUs:
Inter-core communication speed:
Another mystery with the Xbox360 (at least in my view) exists with the inter-core communication on the Xenos CPU between its cores. IBM clearly documents the Cell’s inter-core communication mechanism physically and how it is implemented in hardware and software. This bandwidth needs to be extremely high if separate cores need to communicate and share data effectively. The EIB on the Cell is documented at a peak performance of 204GB/s with an observed rate at 197GB/s. The major factor that affects this rate is the direction, source, and destination of data flow between the SPE and PPEs on the Cell. I tried to find out the equivalent piece of hardware inside the Xenon CPU and haven’t found a direct answer.

Looking at the second architectural diagram of the Xenon, it seems that the fastest method the cores can use to talk to each other is through the L2 cache. Granted, the Xenon only has 3 cores, game modules are usually highly dependent and will need to talk to each other frequently. I might be a jumping the gun a bit, but given the L2 cache and FSB are running at half of the core speed, as opposed to the Playstation 3’s EIB which runs at the same clock speed as the cores, I’m pretty positive using L2 cache to communicate is not going to be very fast. It seems that independent threads are really what Microsoft was aiming for with the Xbox360 CPU design, and games are not optimally implemented if they have massive streaming transfers to hand off to other cores. What would suggest that the Xbox360 cores can communicate quickly and with high bandwidth, would be evidence that the reading and writing to the L2 cache are in larger segments than the writes to the EIB, compensating for the lower clock speed. Additionally, just writing to memory isn’t enough as the receiver needs some sort of notification that it has new data unless it is a permanent buffer. If anyone wants to do research on the topic, please add it to the discussion and include links to your sources.

Enhanced VMX-128 instruction set:
This is one of the features Microsoft boasts to claim they have a better gaming machine than Sony. They focus on the fact that their enhancements support a single cycle dot product instruction, and the larger register file. The problem with this boast over the Playstation 3 is that it compares it to the PPE’s VMX-128 unit which comparably only has 1 set of 32 128-bit registers and presumably less instructions. If the code requires 128 128-bit registers, or more complex instructions, then the code is most definitely vector processing heavy and should be run on an SPE which sports the exact same register file size, and includes a superset of the VMX instructions in terms of functionality(it is not a superset in terms of being binary compatible).

While each core in the Xbox360 also has two VMX-128 register sets, this is done to support the dual threaded nature of the cores better. It doesn’t actually have two vector execution units. Each core only has one VMX-128 execution unit meaning that even though there are two sets of registers per core, two threads that are using vector code have to share this single execution unit.

Comparably, the Cell’s PPE has the limited 32 128-bit register file with a single VMX vector unit on the PPE. This is what Microsoft usually singles out when they compare Playstation 3 to the Xbox360’s CPU. They forget(purposefully) that the Cell has 7 SPEs running at 3.2 GHZ, which is far greater SIMD performance than their 3 enhanced VMX-128 execution units. For vector based computations, the Playstation 3 undeniably outdoes the Xbox360 by an order of magnitude.

The dot product instruction claim is matched at least on the SPEs on the Playstation 3 though a simple multiply-add instruction. For those of you that aren’t mathematically inclined, a dot product is basically a measure of how parallel or perpendicular two lines are. The calculation of a dot product is basically multiplying each corresponding dimension value together, and then taking those products and adding them all together. Take two vectors <2, 3, 4> and <6, 7, 8>. The dot product would be: 2*6 + 3*7 + 4*8 = 65. If you read the earlier section in this post covering the SPES and SIMD architectures, you should remember that at the very least, an SPE can do all of the multiplying in one cycle, and all that needs to be done is a follow up add between the elements in the result vector. I do know that the SPEs have a few multiply-add instructions, but the bit of haziness is if the multiply can be an intra-vector(between two separate vectors) operation, while the add instruction is an inter-vector(between elements in the same vector) instruction from the result of the multiply. Sony claims that the dot product can be done in one cycle on an SPE, and it is very reasonable that this is the case as there are vector permute/shuffles/shift instructions in the SPE instruction set. There just isn’t a labeled dot product instruction in the SPE instruction set – but an intelligent programmer should find what he needs.

I found the multiply-add instruction in the Cell BE Handbook. It takes 4 vectors, one is definitely the result vector and two are operands, but the third parameter named ‘rc’, which I think represents a control register that dictates how to perform inter and intra vector operations. That means the multiply-add instruction has to operate on only two vectors, and the control vector is able to dictate an add between the result components of the multiply.

Symmetrical Cores?:
Symmetrical cores means identical cores. The appeal to this setup is entirely for developers. It represents no actual horsepower advantage over asymmetric cores since code running on any of the cores, will run exactly the same as it would run if it were on another core. Relocating code to different cores has absolutely no performance gain or loss unless it means something with respect to how the 3 cores talk to each other. It should be noted though, that thread relocation does matter between the cores, as a thread might not co-exist well with another thread that is trying to use the same hardware that isn’t duplicated on the core. In that case, the thread would be better located on a core that has that execution resource free or less used. The only case of this I can think of is the VMX-128 execution unit. I think most other hardware is duplicated on the cores in the 360 to allow for two threads to co-exist with almost no problem.

The Cell chip has asymmetrical cores, which means they are not all identical. That being said, the SPEs are all symmetrical with each other and the code that runs on an SPE could be relocated to any other SPE in the Cell. While the execution speed local to the SPEs are the same, there are performance issues related to the bandwidth the SPE is using and who it’s talking to on the EIB. Developers should look at where their SPE code is executing to ensure optimal bandwidth is being observed on the EIB, but once they find an optimal location to execute the code on, they can just put it there without rewriting anything. If a task was running on the PPE or PPE’s VMX unit, then it would have to be recompiled with C, and probably rewritten if hardware specific instructions are in the code(C or ASM) before it moves to an SPE, and the same applies in reverse. Good design and architecture should immediately let developers know what should run on the PPE and what should run on the SPEs, eliminating the chance of rewriting code if they see something better fit to run on an SPE later in development.

Is general purpose needed?:
Another one of Microsoft’s claims for the Xbox360’s superiority in gaming is the general purpose processing advantage since they have 3 general purpose cores instead of 1.

To say “most of the code is general purpose” probably refers to code size, not execution time. First, it should be clarified that “general purpose code” is only a label for the garden variety of instructions that may be given to hardware. On the hardware end, this code fits into various classifications such as arithmetic, load/store, SIMD, floating point, and possibly more. General purpose applications are programs made up of general purpose code on the scale that one function might be arithmetically heavy, and another might be memory bound. Good examples of this are MS Word, a web browser, or an entire operating system. With MS Word there is a lot of string processing which involves some arithmetic, comparison, a lot of branching, and memory operations. When you click import or export and save to various file formats, it is an I/O heavy operation. Applications like these tend to not execute the same code over an over, and have many different functions that can occur on relatively a small set of data depending on what the user does. These functions can vary from being very I/O device bound (saving to disk), to string processing intensive (spelling/grammar check), to floating point intensive(embedded Flash media game or resizing an image). Ultimately, there is a large amount of code written to handle the small set of data and most of it never gets executed.

Games are not general purpose programs. Any basic game programming book will introduce you to the concept of a game loop. This loop contains all of the functionality a game performs each frame. This loop handles all of the events that can occur in the game. An important principle in a game loop is to avoid branches when unnecessary as it slows down execution and makes the code on screen extremely and unnecessarily long. A good example of this is the Cohen-Sutherland line clipping algorithm. Instead of writing lengthy and complicated branches to check the 9 regions a point lies in, the code performs 4 simpler checks, and computes a region code which can be easily be used.

This automatic and repetitive processing has to occur for many game objects which represents a massive amount of data, with a relatively small code size. This is opposite of the general purpose paradigm, which typically has a small set of data (word document or html) and performs many various functions on it representing a large code size. Games processing has a large data size, but much smaller code size. Game objects also tend to be very parallel in nature as game objects are typically independent until they interact (collision) – which means they can be processed well on SIMD architectures if they are well thought out..

The whole integer advantage claim for the Xbox360 CPU is pretty stupid considering the SIMD architectures can operate on 4 32-bit integers at the same time, and integer processing abilities of games are not the bottleneck of 3D games processing.

What this general purpose power does grant Xbox360 owners over Playstation 3 is the ability to run general purpose applications faster. If the Xbox360 had a web browser(official or not), the design for such an application would work better on a general purpose CPU(s). That being said, it’s too bad Xbox360 doesn’t come with one, and web browsers don’t put the highest demand on general purpose processors to begin with. Most general purpose applications remain idle until the user gives actually input. The application will then process the task and complete before sitting idle again.

AI routines that navigate through large game trees are probably another area where general purpose processing power might be better utilized since this code tends to be more branch laden and varying depending on the task the AI is actually trying to accomplish. The plus side for the Playstation 3 is generating of these game trees, which is also time consuming. Generating a game tree is a more computational oriented task, and is likely to be executed faster by SIMD architectures. I am largely speaking speculatively under my Computer Science knowledge in this area. Anyone who knows more or has done more research on AI algorithms is welcome to add to discussion in this area.

The only case I can really see the general purpose computing power of the Xbox360 cores manifesting itself as a true advantage over the Playstation 3, is if Windows or similar OS was put on an Xbox360, having multiple applications running simultaneously along with some background services. Again, it is funny that Playstation 3 is more likely to have a general purpose operating system running on it than Xbox360 even though it would perform worse doing such a task.

XDR vs GDDR3 – System Memory Latency:
XDR stands for eXtreme Data Rate while GDDR3 stands for Graphics Double Data Rate version 3. XDR RAM is a new next generation RAM technology from those old folks at Rambus, who brought out that extremely high bandwidth RDRAM back during the onset of Pentium 4 processors. DDR was released soon after and offered comparable ...

[THELANDSOFSAND]

you should be sorry about the god damn length!

[TheMART]

First of all if you want to write a book go somewhere else.

Second we all know, without reading it, that the PSZero only has peakpower, nice for Sony on paper to blabla about. As they did with emotione engine in PS2. Now video says more then words. A gameproducer will tell you which console is better. Here you have it:

http://www.g4tv.com/pile_pl...

Furthermore listen to this guy

http://web.utk.edu/~ascott9...

[THE TRUTH]

Why even reply if you didn't read it dumba$$!!! Furthermore don't even start to tell me where to post anything, especially since you obvisously follow me from post to post in an attempt to shut down everything I say. Maybe it would work if you took the time I do to find good information, but you don't all you do is spread fanboy statements

[achira]

very good article which states the truth. it is obvious that ms and their fanboys twist all the facts. you clearified everything with this article. theMart please read the article. the ps3 is obviously powerfuller, but i know it already for 2 years know ! but perhaps this article opens some dumb fanboys the eyes. good job the Truth !!!!

[shoota33]

You dont control what people buy their kid just because you cant afford ps3.Oh yes im so jealous of gears of war(shoot aliens duk shoot aleins duk)so exciting(sarcasim)GOW offers nothing next gen but graphics PERIOD.

[Optimus Prime]

too bad you havent looked into the game, oh wait, yes it does have the best graphics on the market. it will destroy ne ps3 exclusive. give me one game that you think can beat this game, just one exclusive the ps3 has. no here, gt4 wont, mgs4 wont. that is about all you have, it destroys those games, graphics, gameplay, oh yea, and online.
and you think that people will just buy a ps3 console. umm no, they will have to buy extras, and it will add up, could easy get to the thousands.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

LOL

you wish you had good graphics on your PS3. PERIOD.

quit drooling over GOW, you sound like a schoolboy with a crush!

[Eternal E 808]

gears of war is realistic so duk and shoot is a smart way to fight in a gun fight or a war dont you think,also i think you should look more into the game befor posting stupid $hit.

[pRo loGic II]

PS3 will be done before this Christmas due to pre-ordering, if the love for Sony is high as you say.

[shoota33]

Killzone 2 will look better than halo and gears of war.You xbots are forgetting UT2K7 for ps3 is going to look as good or better than GOW they are both made by epic.too bad your piece of crap console has maxed out already.plastic figures is what you get in GOW BTW

[THELANDSOFSAND]

killzone?

hahahahahhahahahaha

have you even seen Halo 3 or Gears in game? its insane!

[Eternal E 808]

only if you knew alittle more about epic because you sound so clue less,they are sleeping on the game because they are working on gears day and night so i think your posts are fanboyish because you never realy have info on what you say.

gears will be better because cliffy even said it him self "GEARS IS ITs COMPANYS BABY"

[TheMART]

How do you know lametime? You haven't seen anything but CGI from more then a year ago!

You lame guy with a crystal ball that doesn't work.

These guys, Guerilla come from the Netherlands. And if I may say so, the Dutch are crap in making games. Leave that to the Americans/English/Japanese please. Killzone stinks big time, now that's overhyped.

But GoW got the most awards @ E3, they loved MP gaming at the show. You're pwned

http://www.pwned.nl

[achira]

how dumb can some people be ??? epic = UT2007 you fool. you xbots are a joke, hhaaahaa

[Optimus Prime]

haha, that is the funniest thing i have heard today, killzone 2. wow, that game looks like it will blow, and no it wont even come close to halo 3, or gow, or prey. ut2k7 looks pretty much like all the previous uts. all the same. i thought you always thought fps suked. but now you are standing up for them, haha, priceless. halo 3 will own all your games.

[shoota33]

Is that all MS has put out as the savour of your pitiful console.It wont help them much,only the halo losers will buy halo and GOW haha what a boring game only thing it offers is graphics,pathetic

[THELANDSOFSAND]

lip sync, voice recognition and GOW online will blow the sh1t out of any PS3 game. cliffy B's left finger tip knows more about gameplay than the entire sony staff.

360 games?
dead rising, lost planet, viva pinata, SAINTS ROW!!, Forenza 2...

[pRo loGic II]

Lost planet is a sleeper with it's Next-gen action and graphics. Just pray if PS3 isn't delayed again that it works right. PEACE!!!

[Optimus Prime]

only sony losers will buy the ps3. just keep waiting and waiting. just stare at your piece ps2. that is all you have. you dont have one good game that comes close to our exclusives. get that throught your head. you should go enjoy that laggy piece of crap that killzone is.
killzone 2, i dont ne one has heard about that game for a year. no one cares about that game. halo 3 will be on top of the online world for years. just like halo 2

[shoota33]

First get a life second all you xbots do is praise GOW like its god.this is the ps3 section NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR CRAPPY SHOOTERS!!go masterbate to halo and gears of war loser.

[achira]

you are the looser xrat !!!

[shoota33]

lost planet is a sleeper and will stay asleep

[THELANDSOFSAND]

have you played it?

no!

because you only play ps2 games you LOSER!

hahahah

Lost Planet is awesome.

[OutLaw]

Just in case you don't know the meaning of sleeper here it is: An unexpected achiever of success. Also you must get angry everytime you look at your Avatar.

[Optimus Prime]

lol, looks like the ps3 and blue ray is asleep, and isnt waking up for a while.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

asleep?

i think its just flat-lined.

[shoota33]

ahh I think samsung has released a blu ray player already so that is how much of a stupid ass you are.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

yet sony delayed theirs

;)

[shoota33]

So what blu players are out on the market already who cares if sony delayed their specific model.

[Optimus Prime]

ahh, i think the 360 is released, but the ps3 is still delayed. lol gotcha again.

[shoota33]

OMG you got me so good(sarcasim)GO MASTERBATE TO HALO AND GOW LOSER

[THELANDSOFSAND]

that isnt how you spell sarcasm.

[Optimus Prime]

omg, i am surprised you even know what masterbate is, i thought it would be a little compelex for your little brain that has been brainwashed by sony. cant wait till you blow over 800 dollars on your ps3, then watch it overheat.

[shoota33]

YOU must have brainwashed,you are defending a piece of crap console that no one wants and all it has is updated graphics and NO FEARURES.

[Optimus Prime]

yup it is a piece for sure(sarcasm) you are defending a console that sony brainwashed you guys to like. you dont remember how many times they have lied. plus the ps3 is just made up of all the 360 and wii capabilities. all sony does is copy these two consoles. just keep on waiting for your piece of crap console. ill be playing my 360

[achira]

you dont get it !!! you cant know how the console is because it isnt out. but ppl have the right to look forwart for it, but you are the prejudiced brainwashed idiot. because you hate without reasons.

[shoota33]

ps3 is going to be the best console to come out in the history of video games DONT HATE!! you are the stupid@ss in the ps3 comment section.I NEVER! GO INTO THE XBOT SECTION becasue xbox 1.5 is a complete waste of money.So keep playing your wack@ss games and dont cry when ps3 sells 3x more than xbox1.5 again

[Optimus Prime]

wont need to cry, 360 is on top, an will stay on top till 2009, then their next console will soon be coming out. lol, this is called industry news, not ps3 news. and is ps3 and 360 news. a loser

[shoota33]

This has nothing to do with xbox 1.5 nor MS thus this is ps3 news.I cant wait to see what you will say when sony passes MS in sales in 2007 LOL!! please no lame excuses but dont say i did'nt tell you so.

[ironwolf]

I'm reading this in the Xbox 360 forum.

[Optimus Prime]

lol, good luck. thus this is not ps3 news. cant you read, this is called industry news. it says nothing about ps3 news.

[achira]

but why do you all speak about the ps3 ???? if this article is not about the ps3, why do you speak about it ??? looosers.

[shoota33]

this has nothing to do with anybody but sony and ps3.for someone who cant afford or not getting a ps3 You seem to be very interested in ps3 news.

[The BS Police]

Take a look at this

http://angrysonyfanboy.ytmn...

This is freaking hilarious!

[Optimus Prime]

naw, i just like to see that blue ray will lose to hddvd. and ps3 will lose to the 360. period. ya i am reading this from the xbox 360 section.

[The BS Police]

All you are doing is spamming, don't let the Sonyfanboys get to you!

[shoota33]

Ok i cannot argue with 10 years old.you are obviously in a dream world.No matter how much you want MS to win they wont plain and simple.sony fanbase is too large for MS to handle,THEY CANNOT BEAT SONY.MS should go back to making software and leave the hardware to the profesionals.halo loser i bet you would be supporting blu ray if MS had it instead of the inferior hd dvd but know you are hationg on sony agian because they have the better console and next gen storage disk.

[Optimus Prime]

im in dream world. lol, didnt sony think that the ps3 was gunna be like a pc. i am pretty sure someone said that. lol.
i really think you need to take some english classes, your writing is awful. lol, wtf is hationg, or agian. just tell me that, and dont give me your excuse, "oh i was in a rush" lol, you alway say that.
lol, i hope sony goes bankrupt. they have lost
500 million already this year, and now they owe 243 million dollars in taxes. lol, sony doesnt have the cash, they are goin down, that money is pocketchange to gates. and sony will lose like 200 to 400 dollars each console.

[The BS Police]

You are the only loser on this board.

As far as I'm concned i hope both Blue Ray and HD-DVD fail because the world is not ready for these formats.

[achira]

not a pc, a computer you full idiot. the ps3 is a computer. take a dictionary and look for the defination of a computer. go to school if you cant quote properly and dont understand what a computer is.

[shoota33]

first i was rushing and second this is a forum not english class little man

[Optimus Prime]

oh i told ya, you were rushing. it is not hard to type fast, and proper. but someone like you it is hard. but ne ways, you should change your pic to a game that is a ps3 exclusive. lol, that would be on the 360 just to let you know

[JIN KAZAMA]

Go read the review of Prey at gamespot.com. Once again, it got decent reviews, nothing spectacular. Pathetic

[Brooklynite]

seriously i downloaded that thing off of xbox live market place and it was crap.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

I am censored

[shoota33]

ITS JUST A SHAME GTA4 HAS TO BE HELD BACK ON PS3 BECASUE OF THE WEAK POWERED XBOX 1.5

[The BS Police]

Last 5000 times I heard Sony say they don't need GTA!

Quit contradicting yourself.

[JIN KAZAMA]

HAHA, you guys were talking about how sweet this game is gonna be, it got a 7.5/10. You guys were talking about how sweet OverG Fighters was gonna be, it got a 5.9/10. And you have the nerve to talk about the PS3, and it being delayed. I am glad it was delayed, so i didnt have to buy it a year ago, like your 360, and with sucky games comming out for it.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

not you again

no one cares about overgfighters

[The BS Police]

That review was based on the PCC version dumb*ss!

The XBOX 360 version isn't out yet!

[achira]

yes the xcrapbox version is even worser. i bet it will get a 4.9 rating. hahaha, this games is boring, doom3 was far better.

[JIN KAZAMA]

When the same review or worse review comes out for the 360, dont say Sh!T. You'll see, its going to be the same or worse!!!

[shoota33]

im out of here, take over from here.

[JIN KAZAMA]

No one care about Over G fihgters, this "NEXT-GEN" game, hahaa, all you losers were happy as hell, saying oh sweeet, but you got disapointed again, like little B!tches. Just like Prey, and countless other games.

[The BS Police]

WTF are you talking about?

Prey is gonna rule!

The demo is all I need for proof!

[JIN KAZAMA]

because a simple minded person like you doesnt know a good game if it slapped you in the face. Watch, the same exact review is going to be for the 360 numbnutt.

[JIN KAZAMA]

I got your back man, these MutherFukers dont know sh!t about anything.

[The BS Police]

We prove our points with facts while all you do is flame others for having a diffirent opinion than yours.

It's people like you who try to take out democracy!

[JIN KAZAMA]

HAHHHAA, that was actually FUNNY, you took it to a different level. Difference aside, that was funny man.

[The BS Police]

Yeah, you are alot like those "Brutes" in the Halo games, you do alot of big talk.

But when it comes down to common sense, your dumber than a rock!

[JIN KAZAMA]

Thanks a lot man, i appreciate that.

[The BS Police]

Qoute:Yeah, you are alot like those "Brutes" in the Halo games, you do alot of big talk.
But when it comes down to common sense, your dumber than a rock!

Jin:Thanks a lot man, i appreciate that.

End Qoute
You just called yourself dumb! HAHAHAHAHA!

This just proves how dumb you really are!

[JIN KAZAMA]

so much better if we were all just gamers, like the way we ALL were during the NES days. We were all the same back then, now unfortunately we have to be rivals. Thats unfortunate.

[JIN KAZAMA]

you are right, I just called myself dumb. You are correct

[The BS Police]

We actually agree on something!

[JIN KAZAMA]

That I am dumb, or that we were all together someday playing NES games.

[Mikey_Gee]

You mean V-20, C-64 and Atari 2600

Oh oh ... hope I am not giving away my age now.

:-)

[AuburnTiger]

did you know the 64 ran for about 12 years with only 64k ram and a max resolution 320x200. Also it's starting price was $595.95

[JIN KAZAMA]

i'm 30

[THELANDSOFSAND]

i had a spectrum zx 81

:D

[The Real Deal]

Wait till you see what the reviews will be for the ps3 games. lol...then we will see if you care. I have never cared about reviews. Developers make games. Not gaming systems. BTW...I love Over G fighters regardless of the reviews. The reviews don't say its a bad game. They just say the missions are too short and the fun to be had with it is online. I agree and disagree. I think its a blast online but I enjoy the missions. And its made for 1080i. I tried it on 720p and it looked notibly less detailed. Anyway, I have played and loved games that got smashed in reviews. Review is one gamer/editors opinion on how a game turned out for a particular system. For example a game can get a 9 for graphics on the Ds. It doesn't mean its better than a game on the ps2 that got an 8 for graphics. It means for that particular system they review it for if they feel it maximizes the systems graphic ability. And a game rated 6 is average and 7 is good according to the reviewers. 8 is great and 9 is classic. So over G getting 6.1 on IGN means passalbe as a 360 game but not great in his opinion. So what's funny about that? And Prey got a 9.0 on Ign. Thats Classic. And that is a system seller from the likes of the demo I played. And I have the pc version as well. I prefer the 360 version for many many reasons. But anyway...Its nice to have a variety of games. RTS, RPG, Flight sims, Fighting games, Racing games, FPS, Platformers, 3rd person games, and on and on. Right NOW.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

you remember that comment that NJ made?

[THELANDSOFSAND]

"But TheBlandOfSpam is all broke with a Broke 360 and a Broken Heart. Speaking of break, let me break your wife off some. hahaa"

1- my 360 is still infinately more fun, in its temporary broken state than your sad little PS2 and its god of war games.

2- I don't have a broken heart, sorry to disappoint you,

3- lol there is no way you could handle my wife in bed, all the practise you have is with your hand.

4- all my posts about NJ's racists comments have been erased by him. thats censorship folks!

[TheMART]

I know, NJ did the same with me when I brought out that he had 25 accounts to vote and post.

And then he reports messages that tell the truth...

[The Real Deal]

He created multiple accounts and he was censoring people by voting spam/offensive. I just don't talk about him anymore. I proved him to be a liar on many occations. Its sad to me how sony fans for the most part call people names when people don't agree with them. They never have links to support their bogus claims. Thats why I stopped posting as much. Well my Lord of the Rings and Over G has been taking up most of my time. Its much better than agruing with ignorant sony fan boys. They just say over and over "well your 1.5 sucks butt and our ps2 sold more than your 360. " ...over and over again. It was funny at first but then it becomes sad quickly. 4.5 games sold per console is going to keep developers making top notch games for our system of choice. The 360. If the ps3 sells 50 million but if people aren't buying games. Game developers will make games for the system that they believe their games will SELL on. Same with blu ray movies. If millions of people have ps3's but no one is buying the blu ray movies...Movie studios will stop putting their movies on that formatt. Its never about the systems. Its about the games sold in this industry. Sony fans can hate all they want but 3 games as of May sold over 1 million copies each for the 360 in 6 months. Thats the kind of numbers game developers like to see. Which system can they sell their games on. 1 million copies is a major success for any platform in that short period of time with limited systems available do to shortages. Amazing is an understatement.

[THE TRUTH]

"Its sad to me how sony fans for the most part call people names when people don't agree with them. They never have links to support their bogus claims"

360 fanboys and PS3 fanboys are guilty of the same. No reason to point on oneside. I just hope this site gets better soon or else there will be no reason to post anything here. Mods need to step things up a notch

I have a question for the LOTR game.. Is it multi player split screen or only multi-player on XBL? I have it ordered on Gamefly but it seems to be backordered a.t.m.

[The Real Deal]

If Microsoft would have chosen blu ray and charged 200 dollars more. I would not have gotten it. I think experimenting with a new format on a video game console is a big mistake. If you thought the disc read errors on the ps2 was bad...lol....and at least wait till blu ray is in its 2nd and 3rd genertaions. So this way its a little more proven and faster than 2x speed. Thats the truth.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

"If Microsoft would have chosen blu ray and charged 200 dollars more. I would not have gotten it."

yep, me too. i seriously considered buying a PS3, but sony have yet to give me a good reason for it. In fact, they make new reasons daily as to why I don't want it. Amazing!

[The BS Police]

Sonyfanboys are easy to fool, look how I fooled JIN to openly admit that he is dumb.

Qoute/
Me: Yeah, you are alot like those "Brutes" in the Halo games, you do alot of big talk.
But when it comes down to common sense, your dumber than a rock!

Jin:Thanks a lot man, i appreciate that.

End Qoute

That's how I view Sonyfans, they are easy to fool and it is also easy to prove them wrong!

[THELANDSOFSAND]

its like shooting fish in a barrel with a bazooka.

[achira]

you nick says it all you are bs.

[The BS Police]

Achira you are underarrest for Bull-Sh*tting.

Anything you say or hear will remain incomprehinsible!

[TheMART]

If there are any people still having trouble after a 90 day warranty with their console, go read this pending story. It has been tested in reality and found it works. In no time you'll get repairment/replacement for free!

http://www.news4gamers.com/...

[kingboy]

lol! all this becuz the ps3 is coming out soon.. and it`s bringing mad heat eventhough launch is still far

[mikeeno7]

honestly, i hate people that say 360 is going to have this, PS3 is going downhill etc. So do you know everything? Do you all know how the PS3 will do at launch? No. It is your opinion and since there are only about 50 maximum people on this site (out of 100 million) who purchased Playstation then i don't think the outspoken opinions of 50 are going to affect 100 million. I hate PS3 but you can't escsape the fact that it will do well. Competition = competitiveness...

[Daewoodrow]

I'm getting so bloody tired of this.
I'm a gamer. Why should i have to sit around in a site listening to a bunch if immature preteens argue over who has the best hardware. Gaming is supposed to be fun.
The PS3 and the 360 are on average THE SAME. They trump one another in different areas, resulting in practically the same grapghics and physics. I prefer Microsoft because I feel they deliver better quality, and I don't want a PS3 because I have no interest in Bluray or HD-DVD whatsoever. The actual console does a perfectly fine job making HD on its own.
I think the PS3 wil ldo ok this Gen, because it has a strong fanbase, nobody even bothers checking what it does. But it WILL be hurt, because the target audience is middle class, an they will not want to spend £420 on a console just for Blu-ray, which they'll never even hear about.
Do you hear me? They wil all do fine! Wii will sell good because of its low cost, xbox will sell good because it's cheap and next gen, PS3 will sell good because it's playstation.

As of now, I will never post anything else on this damn comment thread unless it's a non fanboy topic.

[Daewoodrow]

I'm sure Playstation will release on time, because to be honest they'll have a hard time competing with MS if Microsoft have another competition free (besides Wii) christmas.

But i'm a bit concerned about the bluray reader. Bluray players must cost alot for a good reason, so they must sacrifice some of the Blu-ray reader quality to get it so cheap (that's cheap for a bluray player, not for a console). I predict at least 5% Blu-ray drive failure. And I promise, that's not a fanboyish dig. I honestly beleive that.

I love my 360. That's all that matters to me right now.

Although I agree poking fanboys is VERY fun.

[Cyclonus]

God, are all Sony zombies such stupid mongoloids, or just NJ, Jizz, Gametime, and the Tooth? You sony fools should all smack your mommas for not having you aborted.

[THELANDSOFSAND]

okay, blu ray delayed in europe

discuss?