Peter Moore Says 360 Failure Rates a 'Moving Target'

Mike Antonucci recently chatted with Microsoft exec. Peter Moore across a number of topics, including touching on the seemingly high number of faltering Xbox 360s, despite Microsoft claiming a "3% failure rate."

Antonucci passed on the story of one user who replaced his Xbox 360 twice in the last seven months and wondered whether Microsoft's been dodging the real issue. Moore refuses to comment on specific experiences with the hardware, but says people should be focused on how Microsoft treated them as a result of the failure, not the failure itself.

"I can't comment on failure rates, because it's just not something - it's a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, that's something that we're focused on right now. I'm not going to comment on individual failure rates because I'm shipping in 36 countries and it's a complex business," responded Peter Moore.

[Silverwolf]

More like a sitting duck.

[Blackmoses]

Man this guy is good. I believe with his footwork he should at the very least be able to give Muhammed Ali a run for his money in his hayday. Juke and Jive Pete...watch out for that hook.

[Firewire]

Customer Service! lol

"They treated me great. In fact they were kind enough to charge £83 ($165) for the repairs which I was totally responsible for. I mean if I hadn't played the thing it'd be fine."

lol!
MS & Moore are retarded!

[Pheneus]

All I have seen today is raving fanboy antics. Seems like every post in the last 24 hours has been nothing but one sided negativity. I bet by the time I post this there will be a 360 fanboy right there to oppose this young sony enthusiast.

[crazyman]

Why is Silverwolf a "young Sony enthusiast" whilst any gamer who prefers the 360 is a "360 fanboy"? Not having a go, just asking.

[Silverwolf]

Before making a negative comment on me or taking away one of my bubbles. You should have ask me why did I make that comment? Instead you sound like a MS fan boy who can't take criticism. Just to let you know (and most here know already) I went thru two 360 systems that died on me. And yet Mr Moore sits there like he doesn't give a sh!t. It's not how fast you can get a console back to me. It's making sure the quality of your product only improves and that the chances of me getting another faulty system is slim to none. But that's not the case with MS.

[crazyman]

who me?

I never left any feedback nor do I have any objection to your comment. I was merely asking why he used those turns of phrase. I never doubted the validiy of your comment or said you were a fanboy, I was just curios as to how he thought he could judge your comment differently to somebody who hadn't yet said anything.

so calm down

BTW who's Jack?

[Silverwolf]

I was referring to Pheneus. Sorry I should have been more specific :).

[Pheneus]

I was too fast for em. ;-)

[SmokeyMcBear]

good deflection there moore.. basically, im too busy to worry about failure rates, they are there, and we are dealing with them.

[snoop_dizzle]

The life of a video game company spokesman!

....or really any spokesman for that matter.

[XxZxX]

Well If your product make it to HUSTLER show. block it, dodge it, deflect it however you want, you have a problem.

[Kastrol]

comment sounded like peter moore didnt even care

[Donkey Slayer]

Nice deflection as well. Sad thing is MS fans standards are so low that they think they are being treated nicely. If my 360 breaks I'm selling my games.. Luckily i'm in the minority and by some mircale it still runs

[NewZealander]

ive never had a problem with my 360 and neither have any of my (real) friends
i know five other friends tith 360's and not a scratched disc or red light to be seen, and i get in some pretty good hours on my 360 too

so im sorry but i believe the failure rate is small, and all these "im on my third one and my friend just bought a fourth" storys are BS from the sony camp, i mean the sony fans acuse xbox owners of going on the ps3 forums and making up storys of faulty hardware...sad

[StrboyM]

xbox360's are moving targets....for the rings of death.....lmao

just call in tough and we will put someone from india on to be nice to you. then we will count the refurbished system that we sent to you (that will break down also) as another unit sold.

[tehcellownu]

what is Peter moore smoking?? you guys shouldnt worry about our crappy hardware we know its goin to be breakin down on you..when you guys buy it you are gauranted to be treated with great services..wow microsoft you make me want to run to buy the 360 just so i can experince this delightful services when it dies..lol..

[ItsDubC]

I've actually been holding off buying a 360 until the failure rates improve, but Moore's comments lead me to believe that nothing's actually being done about it. Anyone know for sure if the Elite is an improvement in terms of reliability?

When the original Xbox came out, I thought it was going to have rampant hardware issues because MS is a software company first and foremost. It turned out OK, but I'm skeptical of the 360.

[Vip3r]

From what's I've read the Elite is just as bad as any other 360.

[Rockstar]

I'm hoping that the chip change will solve the heat problem.

Waiting until at least fall it looks like, maybe forever.

[kewlkat007]

"What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, that's something that we're focused on right now. I'm not going to comment on individual failure rates because I'm shipping in 36 countries and it's a complex business,"

What else do you want the guy to say..."umm if your console broke , get off MS's nut sack and try a different console"

This guy has a job to do, no time to worry about a small number of individuals, when actually, they are being taken care of, with the warranty, replacements and fixes. He has got Xbox's going all over the world.

I had my 360 for 6 months and never had any issues, while others exaggerate their problems. It's FACT the 360 does have some Hardware issues and most gamers are being taken care of and that should be the bottom line, when in public.

As they would say "I'm on my 8th Xbox 360 can you believe it", umm NO, that mean your a fool.(unless you really like Xbox30 games) I mean, After your 2nd try, really try another Console, the 360 is not for you. I can't imagine 4th, 5th, and 6th Xbox's with all the same problems.

If I owned a business and had a small number of defects, I try to take care of the customers issues first, with warranty, replacements and fixes, and address the bigger problem,(if there is one) back stage until I get things under wraps. This is still a business, and that's why businesses have spokepersons and publicists, to handle these issues.

I'm surprised too, that the Original Xbox didn't have as many issues, then again we are talking about new technology, is the problem in the MANUFACTURING or the DESIGN?

If it was DESIGN would all have the same issues?

[ThaGeNeCySt]

agree'd... P.S. i'm still on my launch console.

[ItsDubC]

Given the question, his response should have included some sort of assurance that something is being done to prevent the reliability mishaps in the first place, IF in fact something is actually being done about it. But seeing as how he did not indicate anything to that effect, I can't help but feel that the reliability of the 360 hardware is going to remain unchanged.

[kewlkat007]

Everyone is just commenting on this Peter Moore discussion, and I'm sure when he is ready to, he will assure gamers about the actually issue.

As a publicist, very early in a products life-cycle you don't go out spilling all the beans, you could loose your damn job. Especially if MS has not isolated the problem. We don't really know what the issue is, as I stated before. It just might be the Design or the Manufac process.

Most publicist are probably governed by strict guidlines, as to what they can or cannot expose, say, or talk about. Until it's the right time. I mean how long was it when Sony discussed the real issue with the PS1 and 2.

It's funny this time around, since there is more competition, everything is looked under a microscope and exaggerated to the fullest. If there was only one competitor/console, then they can choose to do what they want to consumers, or choose when to accept faults, well who else is gonna make them? I mean what can a consumer really do?

SmokeyMcBearc - below: Well read what "TK" wrote at the bottom. I mean it is what it is. IT's THAT SIMPLE. No defending here, you act like I'm saying the 360 does not have issues. if you were a publicist then you'd understand. They don't make up stories and put them out there for the public, or give some false since of security when, the real issue might not have been isolated or is still being tweaked. This is where I'm getting at, and how can we know, what's really going on, he doesn't wanna say much about it, maybe he is not suppose to. We can't know as of now, even if we deserve to know. That's just business. Call it what you want.

remember how long it took SONY to recognize their faulty drives, dating back from PS1 and PS2?

http://www.consumeraffairs....

[SmokeyMcBear]

Aw cmon kat.. you still defending? The 360 has been out for over a year and a half, in a supposed 5 year cycle (xbox1)... thats over a quarter into its life.. and they have not come up with a solution to the problem?? They even launched a new sku, a bigger and better version of the console... and have yet to discover the root of the problems that the console is having. When a publicist makes no acknowledgement of the problem at hand, it seems eerily like denial, rather than spilling the beans. Look everyone and their mom knows about the problems that the 360 has been having. Shoot, they even lengthened the warranty to a year because of the problems they were having. Even in this announcement, he glances towards the problem saying that the customer service is good and they are taking care of the customers.. that right there points towards a small solution to the problem, yet makes no mention of the problem itself. It just seems sneaky and slimy tactics. If they havent found out what the problem is by now.. over a year and a half since the console launched.. i really doubt they ever will. I even wonder why would they. Its still selling.. I don't think the problem will be answered until the customers demand a change, and stop buying the product.. hit em where it hurts.. their wallet.

[EZCheez]

Are you honestly trying to say you are some form of publicist? Wouldn't a publicist be used to using the spell check option?

Anyway, I agree with Dub. If my PS3 broke, and Sony told me to focus on the experience of getting a new one rather than not having an experience at all, I would tell them to go f**K themselves.

And trust me, I have lived by my word. Just ask Dell, Sprint, Nextel.......

[Lacarious]

Talk about a nice slap in the face... Peter Moore is str8 RETARDED!

"What this consumer should worry about is the way that we've treated him. Y'know, things break, and if we've treated him well and fixed his problem, "

yeah schmuck.... we are paying attention to how you treated us... ya know.... how you hung up on us, how you said that there is nothing you can do, how you said the update didn't cause the red ring of death, how you consistently did not repair systems that were generated in the BS 360 year that is 2005.

what a fvcking loon!

[kamakazi]

my buddy from high school sent his 360 in for repain just a week ago. he brought his over to test it with my cords...since that was what they told him to try first, and sure enough i saw the ring of death first hand, scary site to behold, my 360 is still holding up pretty good knock on wood.

[Rockstar]

"Moore refuses to comment on specific experiences with the hardware, but says people should be focused on how Microsoft treated them as a result of the failure, not the failure itself".

How about fix your hardware?
More people would be happier with that I assure you.

[fuckface]

Dude, how can you continually believe in an obviously poorly-made product? If you buy an expensive machine and it craps out, try to get a new one. If it craps out again and you go online and tons of people are complaining about the same, it's a piece of scrit. I don't care how the company "treats" you! It is an inconvenience to have an expensive purchase replaced through the mail and any paying customer who experiences it should at the very least recieve an apology and excellent treatment. You paid hard earned $$ for the working product and the deal was broken with a substandard product, and this guy is saying "well look at how you're treated when it breaks down, that's all that should matter." WHAT! Sorry, not trying to rile any rabid loyalists but that is absolutely unacceptable. MS should be losing customers. Glad I don't own one.

[Black Republican]

my xbox 360 has broke twice
now I will not even watch a movie on it, I will only play games with my xbox360, I have had to tell my gf that when I am not at home she or no one else cannot not even turn it on.
thats how unreliable my experience is with the x360

so since then I have started saving money for a ps3.

[drtysouf21]

Thats why i'm waiting till they put the new chips in before i upgrade to the Elite.

[XxZxX]

those who defended XBOX 360. Wait till your XBOX 360 crapped out. Once people got their XBOX 360 exchanged, it's gonna crap out more often? why they gonna exhange u a freaking super fragile refurbished version. Your broken xbox 360 will then send to manufacturer to be fix and send it back to the next broken XBOX 360 customer. The crap just keep recycling. The real solution, get Warranty, exchange for brand new XBOX 360 if you're broken. You have higher chance of staying with good one.

and Ya mine crapped out too, but I returned it and haven't get a new one. I just love costco

[VaeVictus]

their 360's break (at least half of those multiple times) on them than haven't. Some of them are the biggest MS nutswingers I know and still refuse to acknowledge that it is a poorly constructed machine. I am fortunate enough that my original still works. I am fully expecting it to break. Of course, I'm sure it will be the day after my extended warranty expires.

Moore shouldn't be so dismissive of the failures. 3% is total BS. That number is much much higher.

[Rockstar]

It's nice to actually see a 360 owner admit that there is a problem, instead of yelling BS and questioning the numbers.
If more owners made a stink perhaps something would get done.

[Premonition]

Hopefully they do fix the problem,IE replace the freaking motherboard or something,because they are doing something wrong here and they seem to not be fixing or looking into the problem, cause I dont want to spend 470 dollars on my 4th xbox360 and if that goes out then, im just going to go crazy.

[tk]

Well, at least you XB360 seems to be getting stellar support in terms of getting the console swapped with no questions asked. Moore is doing his job - as any PR guy would - not acknowledging the guilt, focusing on the positive. To be able to do that with a straight face takes experience. He is earning his money.

For the MS Haters - it is clear that he does not want to confirm or deny any issues - a sure sign of admitting guilt without putting it into words. And an issue that received that many publicity, he is clearly not sticking his neck out and saying that it is not true. Just refuse to comment on "specific incidents" trying to leave the idea that it is isolated incidents. He is good at this.

[kewlkat007]

I thought I was the only one that noticed the same. he's doing his job, as I would like to put it. Can you say, public relations part of your job title.

Of course we all know something is up. Why can't people just wait to see if it gets better, and if you do get a refurbed console, it does not mean you might not have the same issue. I wonder how the Elites are fairing?

...and still wonder if it's design vs manufacturing process?

[Shadow Flare]

What...you mean like they can't hit it and get rid of the problem?

Microsoft are such losers, giving the politicians answer. Always dodging the issue. "You should notice how we treated the customers, please don't look at the fact that we sell them CRAP hardware in the first place"

3% failure rate my ass

[EDIT]

Bladders my friend, you're the living proof of my comment. My bro had a 360 so im well aquanted with the pos and it sends out constant vibes of -I'm badly made!-

It's noisy as hell, its made of cheap plastic, feels and looks cheap, we KNOW the hardware in it is nothing like the ps3's quality hardware, and it obviously breaks down a hell of alot. Which is proof microsoft brought the console out too early purely to get a jump on the competition. Thats why im laughing at this article

[Bladders]

My brother and I are both on our third 360s each! That's 6 all together. I wonder where the 360 graveyard is exactly? I love the console but they are a bit fragile. This is the only bad thing I have against the 360. And it is a major issue. I guess they say third time lucky!!

[MetalProxy]

The 3% comment was was how much he cares, not the failure rate.

[PS360PCROCKS]

This is understandable what he says and the real truth is the fact that yes it is how you treat your customers when your things break. But I don't believe in hiding obvious glaring weaknesses in the reliability of your product. They need to fix this because it's getting ridiculous. I mean come on do you really think I wanted to buy a 360 from walmart and replace the insides with my broken one to have to exact revenge on Microsoft for a shoddy DVD drive? Well despite the fact is was kinda funny, it's still wrong and I don't feel very good about it.

[Foulacy]

i wouldnt comment on failure rates if they were staggeringly high either

[IBLEEDBLU]

IIIJUMPMAN23III - that is just sad man..but glad to see ur not a MS sheep and doing the rite thing and getting a PS3 -

about moore - lol this guy makes me laugh - when asked oh lets talk about the failure rates - he states that its a moving target and doesnt want 2 talk about it - well moore if thats the case then isnt sales a moving target as well?? but yet he wasnt dodging those questions regarding the sales of the xbox360 lol

MS has screw themselves sooo bad - yet the sheep continue to follow - saying dumb things like oh i dont mind switching 3-4 discs...oh i dont mind returning 3 systems in 5 months..oh i dont mind paying extra for a cheap online service..oh i dont mind paying extra for the elite that is the same system as my core..oh i dont mind paying extra for wifi and wireless controllers..oh i dont mind buying the HDDVD add on even tho i know bluray will win then ill properly have to buy a bluray add-on for another 200

lol like honestly WAKE UP! and save ur money for a real system - P . S . Fuken . 3

[Close_Second]

What are the actual failure rate numbers globally or by region? I'm sick of all these comments about how bad the 360 is and yet I see no hard evidence that tells me it has a 30% failure rate like some would have you believe.

I hear all the horror stories but sites like these thrive off those. A handful of negative stories and it can be spun out of all proportion and suddenly it sounds like every second 360 owner has had issues. We all know how things work. If things are as dire as people would have you believe then consumer affairs in each territory would be on the case, or even worse, global recalls would be imposed. I have heard no instances of either.

On another note, I think we all agree that after sales support is important. However does anyone have any statistics on how well Sony and Microsoft after sales support fares? That is, how supportive are they and what are the average timeframes to resolve different types of issues?

Again, until we have more facts we will all be basing our comments and opinions on other peoples uninformed comments and opinions. Basically thats whats been reducing this site to being nothing more that a gossip column of late.

[pmx]

I Live in the caribbean so if my 360 dies is better to get a new one due to shipping and taxes, anyway all my friends (30 something friends) had the 3 lights at least 1 time, when i visited the local video game repairs store, they had boxes and boxes with death 360's inside. So i sold mine by US$200.00 and got a new one. but im scared because is freezing to much, if it dies i quit gaming.

I hope the those machines are not overclocked!! d@mn you microsoft

[Close_Second]

What was the issue? was it the same problem everytime or 30 (or something) different issues.

[ZeroAlarm]

Moore is obviously dodging the real issue here: the crappy hardware inside the 360s - fix that, and the breaking-down issue goes away. Get rid of those damn X-clamps for goodness sake!

Truth be told, this won't happen, and it's unlikely that the 65nm chips won't be implemented for a long time, because MS don't want to put any more money into hardware which is already costing them. I bet it'll cost them more than money, though - they're throwing away their fanbase. I'm certainly not going to buy a new 360 (mine broke, 1 month out of warranty, even though I had it in storage for 3 months...hmmm). until they fix the problems with the console. I'm not going to put any more money into it. And so that's cost MS a customer. What's worth more? Sustaining your fanbase or cutting corners?

[OC_MurphysLaw]

These guys from time to time slip up and say something stupid. Sony's had major issues with it, Nintendo even has had the PR people scrambling after a reggie comment or two. MS is no different. I am sure Moore is tired of the question and just let his frustration peek out. He is human..as are all these guys.

Honestly...this article should offend nobody. It's an interview that attacks Moore on the topic of failure...he responded overly defensive...nothing more.

All these companies really do care what we think and want...because they need our dollars so they have to care. But the questions must get old after a while.

One interview does not reflect MS's stance on a matter such as hardware failure, especially when there have been countless others where Moore empathized and said MS wanted to figure it out and fix those wronged.

EDIT: and yes...I have a launch console. No rings of death ...had since November 22, 2005.
Everyone just breath and relax.

[Aramis001]

Thank you for bringing that up. Does anyone ACTUALLY know the failure rates for the 360? Until we have definitive proof about this, please stop the horror stories. It's incredible how the internet can amplify these rumors and generate so much hate. Until we REALLY know, shut up and be thankful that the support is good at the least.

*******
All I have left to say is that I officially gave up on humanity while reading the comments on this site. Before I had been holding out hope for some kind of Angelic intervention or something, but it's pretty clear to me now that such hope is utterly pointless. If we really can get this much hate over something this small, I don't see how we can ever handle anything larger, like say, wars. I give up. Thanks people. Thanks alot.

[Close_Second]

...you must be a member of the press as you have rephrased what I have said to convey what you THINK I was trying to say.

[crazyman]

Its hard to tell the failure rate. It is probly higher than the 3 or 4% MS are saying but its not the 20-30% that sony fanboys say.

People tend to make more noise when complaining than when theyre happy. I mean if every 360 owner made a post every day saying "Day 245- still working fine", it would be stupid.

I think alot of the problems were coming from the factory that MS just stopped using.

[zonetrooper5]

Wow peoples consoles have actually broke? Oh well it happened with all consoles. I've had my Xbox 360 since Feb 2006 and I have had the 3 red lights 3 times now, all I did was restart the console or take the hard drive off and restart the console.

[Keyser]

I haven't had any problems with my 360 and I hope I never do. I had to turn my PS2 in over the dvd drive and that wasn't cool. I'm not going through that again. If it breaks I'll send it in to be fixed, when it returns, it and the games go on Ebay and I'll take what I can get.

I don't have the time or the energy to play with billion dollar companies. I paid 400 beans to have a working product. If one of my BIC pens out of a pack of six breaks I don't care but if my washer breaks, again, and again, Maytag and I have some tough talk ahead.

I hope MS understands that this is not a small issue and focuses on fixing it and making their next box solid. Sony did and I appreciate that.

I didn't buy a PS3 at luanch because I got burned with my launch PS2. The PS3 didn't have bad QUALITY reports so I picked one up in March. I will not buy a nex Xbox at luanch the next time (even though I haven't had issues) because of so many reported issues. I will wait about 4 months on their next box before I make a decision.

Companies cause buyers to be cautious...

[gta_cb]

soo... many fanboy comments, made me actually skip loads of comments and just post this one, we really need to stop with these stupid comments!

[kewlkat007]

Is it a MANUFACTURING problem or a FLAW in the DESIGN?

Well nobody cares to respond, at least if you have some insight, or are my questions moving targets? I don't know.

If they have changed to a different factory, hows the newer 360's doing?

sucks when a consumer can't get answers to these types of questions. Oh I know, it's much easier to bash/flame the competition. (Die MS..Die I only see on every problematic post)

[ItsDubC]

I'm leaning more toward it being a manufacturing issue because there are still many 360s that have never failed. This doesn't necessarily mean that it isn't a design flaw, but I think that many more 360s would be failing if it were.

[Rockstar]

From what i read it's a design flaw.

The MOBO becomes warped from the heat and some of the components lose contact giving you the red rings.

It apparently starts with freezing and ultimately ends with red rings and you're done.
That's why you apparently see more epoxy on the Elite MOBO to give the components a better grip. A band-aid solution.
Has it worked? Not sure, what's the Elite fail rate?
That's why I'm waiting for the 65nm chip, for the heat reduction and hopefully no warping.
As for the DVD drive issues let's hope they are solved by that time as well.

[PS360PCROCKS]

To whoever asked about the 360 failure rates. I know 3 people who own 360's, myself included, all of ours have broken at some point, they sent theirs in, I got a new one by some sneaky moves.

[FeralPhoenix]

No consumer should have to deal with a broken product. M$ has admitted higher than normal failure rates in the launch consoles. -Honestly I think that they rushed early consoles to make sure they made the launch date....but they have indeed admitted they had a problem, they have also taken steps to fix it (better QC in manufacturing process) and helping consumers who have problems (extended the warranty). None of this excuses having defects in the first place, and this is a significant issue, but it is exaggerated at some level because obviously the internet can take even a small problem and blow it out of porportion, especially when you have overzealous Sonyfanboys who are in the mix of valid stories. Peter Moore is a PR guy, so of course he's not going to say: "The initial defect ratio is __%, we have resolved most issues but like all electronics a small percent will always break"...-you know the TRUTH, of course he's going to deflect the question and be positive. Thats what PR people do...I didn't sense he doesn't care, alot of Sony's PR statements about different negative situations are much more arrogant, IMO. I think M$ has done the things companies are suppose to do when they have a problem.

http://biz.gamedaily.com/in...
http://blogs.mercurynews.co...

My one (1) question to the Sonyfanboys is if we should all just "give up" on the 360 for its early problems, then why didn't you give up on the PS2 because it had early problems? -Myself included, my first PS2 drive broke, it was fixed, no more problems until I dropped it (dammit), my launch 360 works fine, my PS3 works fine.

[Bathyj]

I would like a product with a bit of quality though. I mean c'mon this is a bit rediculous. You can believe its Sonyfanboys distorting the facts if you like because you've had no problems (I envy you) and to a point you'd be right, I'm sure it happens. But I've had nearly every console back to Atari 2600 and NONE of them have broken (I admit I've been lucky to dodge a broken PS2), except, you guessed it 2 X360's.

For Moore to say we shouldn't worry about machines breaking, but concentrate on how we're treated when they do sounds like a defeated attitude to me. Sure I want to know their customer service is good, but I'm a bit more worried about it not breaking in the first place.

All I want is for M$ to come clean with some real numbers. How many have broken. How many were replaced and how many were repaired. How many that broke were from early or launch models and what have they done or are doing to fix it. They should convince me now that these problems have passed or stand up and admit that they haven't. I dont think expecting something not to break is unreasonable when spending so much money. Balls in your court M$.

[roninofako]

...and let me tell you I am done with microsoft sending back refurbs....send me a new unit, not some crappy pre-2006 launch console. I feel like I've been cornholed without the courtesy of a reach around, and I will not buy another 360 'til the issues are worked out. Nuff said.

[power of Green]

Has anybody had the Unreadable disc problem and had to replace their 360 because it didn't play anything?. The day i bought my Elite my prem had the unreadable disc on the bar and wouldn't play anything i have posted it a couple of time on this site. Anyways I called MS and they sent me a shipping box but the day i got the shipping box my 360 prem stated working again should i send it in anyways?.

Is the drive going to go out?

[Bathyj]

If it did it once then there something not right, even if it doesn't do it all the time. Better to get it seen to now then after you warranty runs out.

[Firewire]

You xbots defending Moore & MS on this bull are seriously
screwed up. "Its a moving target" what a load of crap!
No matter what anyone tells you including Moore or MS,
the number is way higher than 3%!
Don't believe me check this out, its over 50 pages & its the second
thread they have!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
or try this
http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

Admit it! MS is knowingly making faulty machines, and screwing
xbots over!

[snoop_dizzle]

But nonetheless it was a good console.

[snoop_dizzle]

"My one (1) question to the Sonyfanboys is if we should all just "give up" on the 360 for its early problems, then why didn't you give up on the PS2 because it had early problems?

He also said
"-Myself included, my first PS2 drive broke, it was fixed, no more problems until I dropped it (dammit), my launch 360 works fine, my PS3 works fine."

[Firewire]

The problems with the PS2's were no where near as bad as what is happening with the 360! And Sony eventually fixed it!
But MS is still manufacturing faulty 360's knowingly! They have not done one thing to fix the problem! If you went through some of the posts from those Neogaf threads I linked to, you can see people's 360 manufactured dates, and some are new! Even with the new 360 Elite, the problems still exist!
Now you can take Moore's line & sinker about customer service, again go back to
those Neogaf links and see how much MS is charging people for repairs! On a product that they know is faulty the second it leaves the factory!
So whats MS's game here....sell crapy product, make a killing on repairs, don't even give free shipping, and then to boot & its never been confirmed or denied by MS add those refurbished supposedly repaired units to 360 sales numbers!
Now remember when the 360 first came out, and you had disk scratching problems!
MS was accusing customers of screwing up there games by moving the console some how! We all know the truth as to why it happened now, but what did MS tell its customers, sorry we aren't replacing your scratched up disks! Now MS will, but that came over a full year after the 360's release. How many people got screwed and had to buy new games a second time? Ever wonder why MS's attach rate for games is so high? thats right!
Also MS has a little sceem going on with there software! How many 360's bricked up because of patches and updates? And dev's have there patches approved by MS even. How many more bucks does MS make that way? Also how many more refurbished repaired units get send out (again without free shipping) and counted towards
sold 360 numbers!
You think it would stop there right? Sorry MS wants to screw you some more!
Want a larger hard drive (which they said you don't need anyways) well hers our 120GB drive for $180! Thats right $180! to bad the exact same HD goes for less than $50 bucks on the net! And guess what you can only use it on your 360!

Thats why when I say watch out MS is gonna rape you, I'm not joking!
But people (xbots) fail to listen ! Thats why MS recommend's there special
lube for only $199! It'll still hurt but at least xbots still get to blindly give there money away to MS!

PS: snoop dizzle, sorry don't mean to rant on you, but I just hate the way MS does biz!

[FeralPhoenix]

Firewire there was a discussion about a month ago on N4G forums, specifically concerning how "Consoles Zealots are Ruining N4G". -One particular area of concern within that forum was that while this is a site for opinions, unfair and biased rants accompanied with name calling hurts this site. I remember you complaining about the negativity and wondering why there was a lack of respect for other members opinion. Here, just in case you have forgotten I encourage you and other members to read the comments from that forum discussion....I think its a great subject and would be beneficial for all members to think about:

http://forums.n4g.com/m_207...

-Now here's why I believe your last post is extremely one sided:

"The problems with the PS2's were no where near as bad as what is happening with the 360! And Sony eventually fixed it!"
[[I cannot say how many PS2's were faulty, since Sony never released the hard numbers that I know of, but what I do know is they had a class action lawsuit against them, and I know that it was a considerable amount of people behind that lawsuit which is why Sony settled...so your perception is most likely based on your belief in Sony and the fact that todays media and internet provide a much more scrutinized environment, note: I cannot say what 360 defect ratio is either since they have not given specific #'s, all though I believe its higher than they admit, just like Sony did with PS2. Also remember that most of us and media sites were most likely to get a faulty 360 do to the fact that launch/early 360's failure rates were the highest.]]

"But MS is still manufacturing faulty 360's knowingly!"
[[Do you even believe that? -Of course some 360's are still faulty but its not like Peter Moore is standing right there on the production line saying "yeah that one is broken, but who cares?" -p.s. broken units cost M$ more money than if they would have fixed them during the manufacturing process, since they will have to pay out more money by fixing it and returning it to the user. -Not to mention the potential that the customer may want a refund(loss a sale) and worse of all losing a customers confidence in future products.]]

Now this post is too long already, lets just say your comments about 360 fans buying his statements hook, line & sinker or defending his statements; once again shows you aren't really "listening" to the opinions of others because if you read my comments and other comments thats not what we are saying at all, what Iam saying is that you have to put what he's saying into perspective considering its his job to be positive, you said Sony fixed PS2 problems, so why can't M$ do the same? You say they aren't doing anything about it, again that's just your perception you are inclined to believe it....if he actually said the failure rate is 3, 10, or 50% those who hate M$ would still say that the 360 is garbage, like they are saying now, so the end result from biased fanboys would be the same, right. The fact that you go off topic about pricing of the 120g HDD, which I've said and many others have said on many occasions is too expensive, shows your true intent has nothing to do with analyzing M$'s situation with the hardware problems in a fair an honest manner. -NO this is just another attempt/excuse to tell the world how much you "hate" the other console and judging by your recent post history any subject will do. Fortunately there is ONE truth to all the madness, as long as M$ is actively working on their problems(a moving target, which means you are trying to reduce the possibility of failures) and dev's continue to produce quality games...the 360 will be fine, same as every other console in history, only the market is much bigger this time.

[bootsielon]

For buying a 360 instead of a PS3. That happened to me. Of course I have a PS3 now and a third Xbox 360, but I wish I never had gotten Xbox 360 in the first place. I rarely use it now because I'm afraid it'll burn! It's almost a paperweight now...

[Russbomb]

Whenever I see the Xbox 360 with red lights on it, it makes me think of how the designers knew problems were going to occur with it so they intentionally put the lights in. Its like anticipating failure.
Good call MS good call

[tethered]

I'm playing it safe.
I will buy one when the price drops and the problems are fixed like say maybe mid to late 2008 and just play my friends 360 when I go over to his house.

[snoop_dizzle]

Not one of my friends have had one problem with their 360, and i haven't either.

It would make sense if it was regional.

And it would explain why some people are going through 360s while others aren't.

btw Firewire , i know moore was avoiding the question, but any other company's spokesman would do that as well. No surprise there.

[tethered]

I just want to butt in here.

Could you be onto something because I hear this kinda thing a lot.
Could it be regional? I live in Missouri and I have two friends that have returned their 360 two times.

Where does everyone live that have problems?
Where do people live without problems?

[Anego Montoya FTMFW]

EGM says in their office the 360 has a 75% fail rate.
listen for your self.

1up yours (05/04/07)
on Itunes.
check it.

[socsca]

This guy should look into bullfighting (or the matrix), I mean... Dodging THAT is not an easy thing to do. Anyway.. Mr. Moore: I´m not buying an xbox360 untill I stop hearing OUTRAGEOUS failure rate-numbers, so fix it!

[BitbyDeath]

One of the guys from either IGN or Gamestop are said to be on there 12th or somethin console, i hope MS learn their lesson and leave it to the "Hardware" professionals to build the machine next time

[LoveHateTragedy]

has gained an extra Billion Dollars of debt, simply look at how many consoles they've had to replace over the past 17 months. Every 360 console display I've seen at retail (with the exception of one CompUSA) has the Red Ring of Death, and it's a bit of a wakeup call for consumers. I imagine the reason the 360 hasn't been selling well is directly related to the thousands of broken Demo Kiosks around the nation.

How confident would you feel about buying a Wii or PS3 if the respective demo unit was permanently dead for no reason?

Peter Moore, along with other Microsoft Execs, know that the failure rate is between 10 and 15% within the first year of purchase, and as far as we can tell it's caused by everything from firmware updates and patches to simply popping in a new game into the console. Even the Gears of War VGA update bricked thousands of consoles, and it's scary. He's showing a lot of worry by dodging the question of how many consoles (quite possibly in the hundreds of thousands) have been sent back for repairs/replacement by saying all that matters is the customers' experience. But there's also a Lot of horror stories popping up from unfortunate customers who's systems have died.

The issue most likely stems from corrupted firmware, though fixing the issue would probably mean altering the system architecture (as well as the OS), and that's a very tricky decision. If not done properly, it could jeopardize everything. It probably could have been avoided had Microsoft spent more time and money designing the system/OS, but it's too late to ramify those mistakes. Hopefully they can solve the problem though, otherwise I won't even consider buying a 360.

[ZyKlOn]

Xbox 360 Elite Prone to Same Problems as Others

[ZyKlOn]

Sneak peek at the Xbox 360 Elite

[ZyKlOn]

FOURTH XBOX 360 DIES ! I'VE HAD

[LoveHateTragedy]

Damn, that was unexpected.

[ZyKlOn]

3 dead 360's in 3 weeks in 1 house...Very nice!!!!

[nix]

sorry. ):

[chelcho]

he lives in California. Everybody knows there is hot as hell. This is not a xbox360 fault - M$ PR man said :)

[FeralPhoenix]

Well see thats just my point exactly, M$ has said publicly that the failure rate of launch 360's was "higher than expected" and they have said they are fixing the issues, of course consoles outside of the initial launch consoles break too, but even when you google stories about 360 failure rates, almost all of them are related or refer to consoles they were sold during the launch period or soon there after, (1 yr or more ago) -of course a brand new one might break also but the percentage of reports that I've seen from people who purchased it less than a year ago are significantly lower...I even quickly googled the big gaming news sites like IGN who we all know experienced its fair share of problems with the 360....and this is evidence of what I'm saying from IGN May 2006, which is aproximately 6 months after launch, IGN:
http://xbox360.ign.com/arti...

"Microsoft has also taken steps to improve the overall production process of the 360 itself. Microsoft upped its target number of 360s sold by end of June to 5.5 million, thanks to improved production methods and the addition of Celestica, a third manufacturing partner, to Flextronics and Wistron.

Retailers are noticing improvement as well. We placed calls to Best Buy and EB Games and GameStop outlets around the country, and clerks reported that less consoles, in general, are being returned today than at launch. The outlets were unable to release any hard data but the general consensus is that retailers are seeing less and less returns as the months pass.

As a numbers game, this is hard to play. Given the small sample size of the IGN office, what Microsoft calls an "anomaly," the informality of our polls and the lack of hard data on returned consoles, it may very well be impossible to know the exact amount of returned Xbox 360s. So all we have is our personal, first-hand experience, which is basically one half of the office loving Xbox Live, Arcade, and titles such as Call of Duty 2 and Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis, and all of the other outstanding features of Microsoft's console. The other half of us, unfortunately, is haunted by a series of blinking red lights, which is a lot to pay $399 for.

To Microsoft's credit, the 3% to 5% return rate is more information than Nintendo or Sony would share and the company has always been open and forthright with IGN, as we've seen in recent interviews with Peter Moore, Shane Kim and Bryan Lee. But if Microsoft hits its summer target of 5.5 million consoles sold, then that would mean that as many as 275,000 consoles, 5%, could be shipped off to McAllen, Texas for repair. So what happens to all the consoles? Microsoft wouldn't say. Here's IGN VP Schneider's theory:

"Microsoft's Xbox 360 service center is probably just a big conveyor belt somewhere in New Mexico that drops 360s into an open pit. And someday, 500 years in the future, some kid breaks through the desert crust and tumbles crashing down into a cave -- and subsequently pisses his pants when he finds himself surrounded by 550,000 red almost-rings-of-light, flashing eerily in the dark."

_____________________________ ______________________________ _ ______

-Now does any of this excuse them or let them off the hook? -Hell no, but they have been actively fixing the problem since launch....but what else can they do?....besides "give up", which is really all SOME (not you) Sonyfanboys really want. I mean if you think about it even if it was within the 3-5% standard (of course I've always said its double what they admit) and M$ sold a million launch consoles over the first 2 or 3 months (just a round figure to use) 5% would still add up to broken 50,000 launch consoles...don't you think that's enough people over one year to keep a problem "fresh" even the source of the problem may well be fixed in newer consoles? -yep, 'cause they are rightfully pissed off....but I say its still a good console and they deserve as much chance as Sony was given after they had problems with PS2. -I'm still waiting for a creditable answer to that first question? Firewire's attempt was weak at best? Why won't SOME give them that chance?....well because its "fear", they love their brand so much, that they hate the brand that they have no intention of buying but anything missing the logo they love isn't worthy of existence. In fact most of them won't read the link and make a fair assessment, nor will they read more than the first line of this post, because they don't want to hear anything that does not agree with their agenda....and I'm not saying anyone should believe me, I'm just saying a little "objectivity" would be nice.

[Edit] ^^^^I watched every one of ZyKloh's funny video's although the last one, I think is believable and unfortunate.....it still goes along with everything I just said (launch consoles).

[Bathyj]

It used to be I would just defend Sony because I felt the bashing was wildly unbalanced and unjustified. (You have to admit, Sony bashing has becaome a popular pastime in the last 2 years.) Now I admit as well as defending what I like, I'm not shy about b*tching about the things about Xbox I dont like. I still love the machine but M$ has dont a lot of things I'm not happy with and some of there practices quiet frankly do my head in a bit.

I reason I come down so hard on, well mart lately is because he's a classic fanboy. He just about only talks negative about Sony, he hardely even wastes his time talking positive about M$. Thats valuable time he could be trolling or digging up dirt. He bring new to a conversation that can be debated or thought about objectively, and frankly I just think hes sad and pathetic. The thing I hate most about the fanboys is they actually make me resent my Xbox. I look at the machine on my counter and I thing "F*ck that guys an idiot. Guess I'll just play some Motorstorm to forget it." Thats not right. Fanboyism is going to far. I dont want that. I'd rather be able to play my Xbox or my PS3 in piece and not think about these hate filled people.

About that IGN story, thats pretty old now and it kind of highlights what I said. M$ how about some real numbers. Come clean for once, please. I hadn't watched those videos cos I figured it was just to stir the Xbots and I have no interest in that but after reading your post I watched them. The last one says it all. Its a joke its so funny. The first one to break was the newest one. Bought over a year after launch. Ok, that tells me its not just early models and nothing has really been done about it. Thats my perception of this situation. It might not be entirely accurate, but if its not, its up to M$ to convince me of that. Stop using this lead of yours as a PR tool and tell us of 10 million unit "SOLD" how many actually made it into homes, and how many got sent back. If they're going to use that lead as a way of appearing in a position of strength and wooing developers with their userbase, then I think we have the right to know the answers to those questions.

In all honesty, if mine breaks again and I had to BUY a new one, I will, because I have about 25 games which is a sizable investment, and plus I'm the type of guy that has to have all the consoles because I'm not about to miss out on a good game simply because I dont have the console. But not everyone is like me, or so free with his money. What about a guy with only 3 or 4 games onto his 2nd or 3rd machine. What does he do? Keep buying games for a machine that might leave you, in a way tipping money down a bottomless pit. Or maybe its time for a PS3? I cant answer that for anyone, its their decission to make but if I was M$ I'd be worried about that.

[LoveHateTragedy]

might mean less consoles breaking down, but it could also just mean that customers are contacting Microsoft first when problems occur rather than their local retail (who have stringent return policies).

[FeralPhoenix]

Well people can call me an "xbot" or make any conclusion they like about me "defending" my point of view, whatever makes them feel better, hey its the internet but it doesn't mean that the info I'm providing isn't legitimate.

IGN:

"To Microsoft's credit, the 3% to 5% return rate is more information than Nintendo or Sony would share and the company has always been open and forthright with IGN, as we've seen in recent interviews with Peter Moore, Shane Kim and Bryan Lee."

[[Of course M$ isn't going to divulge exact numbers, no company ever does, honestly and it serve's no major point other than fanboy wars because releasing numbers isn't what helps those affected...fixing their problem and ultimately the root cause of the problem itself helps future consumers.]]

IGN:

"Retailers are noticing improvement as well. We placed calls to Best Buy and EB Games and GameStop outlets around the country, and clerks reported that less consoles, in general, are being returned today than at launch. The outlets were unable to release any hard data but the general consensus is that retailers are seeing less and less returns as the months pass."

[[At least that shows they had begun reducing defective consoles after launch, doesn't mean the problem is solved (moving target), but of course even if you believe the 5% then like I said that's 50,000 launch console out there that are faulty...and they all don't break at the same time so of course you are going to hear cases of 360's breaking over time but honestly everybody who reads as much videogame news as I do, can see a big difference between what we hear now and how bad it was right after launch....in fact the vast majority of stories that are brought up now/today somehow relate to those with a launch 360, not all but the vast majority. Seriously don't take my word for it research for yourself. I think they have actively been working to resolve their issues. Now LoveHate you can say whatever you want about why in May 06 retailers were reporting lower and lower returns but alot of people do contact the retailers with their problems, and unless you have some other data, IGN's report is creditable. Again I ask; Why won't SOME give M$ a chance to fix it? or better yet; Why don't they WANT M$ to fix it? We all love competition, right?]]

[Boon Tarkas]

And this is one of them. Certainly there are 360's that fail. And I believe the failure rate may be even higher than industry standards, but the entire situation has been spun out of control by Sony Fans.

I have my first 360, and it's even one of the quiet ones! I have never had any issues whatsoever. Further, only one of my friends on my friends list -which is fairly sizeable- has ever had the three rings of death.

It's nothing more than scare tactics. I really love the ninnies who post and say "I'm on number 6!" Her's a tip: Stop taking it to the beach!

By the way: I love my 360, and really don't dig MS too much, so it's not like I'm in their back-pocket or anything (Although they are certainly in mine, what with the prices of XBL Arcade and DLC)

[Kuest]

vary nice comments indeed. I smell bubbles