Microsoft Drops 360's HD Requirements?

TVG:
The fanfare surrounding the HD era has dampened down, with the suggestion that Microsoft's demands for every Xbox 360 title to employ a HD resolution of at least 1280x720 appear to have been dropped.

In the latest issue of Develop, Black Rock Studio's David Jefferies provides an insight into the balancing act required for resolution and quality, claiming that although both HD consoles support 4X Multiscreen Anti-Aliasing, it's impossible to support such techniques at 1280x720 because the overhead is too much.

[PirateThom]

What?

There's loads of 360 games in sub-HD resolutions, natively. Are they talking about not even supporting upscaling? Because that would be ridiculous.

[dragunrising]

I don't think they're talking about upscaling. Sub-HD games have been around for a while; in other words, old news.

[Maddens Raiders]

I'm just glad that there are no devs suggesting the PS3 (((drop))) HD requirements. (o_O)

[StanLee]

But there are games that run in sub-HD resolutions on that system as well.

[Maddens Raiders]

I believe my comment stated: "I'm just glad that there are no devs ---> suggesting <--- the PS3 (((drop))) HD requirements."

Yep. No suggestions there. Reading & comprehension are wonderful things.

[indysurfn]

Last time I checked Kill Zone has even LESS resolution. Last time I checked Microsoft has MANY MORE 1080P games than PS3 does. See a xbox360 game that is 1080p? Don't assume the ps3 version is 1080p. Recently many games have come out on 360 as 1080p and only 720p on PS3. Because the developers had to take it down a notch and it STILL runs at a slower frame per second clip.

[talltony]

Ok you obviously dnt know what the hell your taliking about. I'll just say that just because it says 1080p on every 360 game doesnt means it actually running natively at 1080p. And no the ps3 has more 1080p ps3 games then the 360 does. Dont kid yourself and do some freakin research!

[Kleptic]

I don't think the 360 has a single title that is rendered at native 1080p...but it does have a superior scaler to the PS3...so its kind of moot...

the PS3 has a few...namely Wipeout HD...which is definitely the 'biggest' full HD game on the PS3...and it does look beyond incredible...

but the point is both consoles are short on memory...it sucks...the PS3 rarely gets true MSAA at all in a lot of games because of memory restraints...the 360 generally gets 2x MSAA because of its EDram attached to the gpu...either way, the 512mb of ram for both consoles are the biggest bottle-neck for them...

[ThanatosDMC]

Yeah, all 360 games have AA all ready cuz of that chip.

[FragMnTagM]

You were the only one that was arguing that made sense. You actually know what you are talking about... the others... not so much.

[MGSR THE HD VERSION]

"Microsoft Drops 360's HD Requirements"

dumb article.

here, here's the list of resolutions for both ps3 and 360.

count how many both have below 720p, and count how many are 720p with 4xaa.

ps3 http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

and 360 http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[SaberEdge]

MGSR, I count 41 PS3 games that are sub-HD resolutions on that list and 26 Xbox 360 games that are sub-HD.

[indysurfn]

Stupid irrational fanboys where is your proof? Did you even look for any? For starters try Ghostboosters NATIVE 1080P on xbox360, but only 720P on PS3. Another example Fight night round 4 xbox360 NATIVE1080P , PS3 NATIVE PS3. Thats right fantoys, keep your heads in the sand like a Ostrich!

[frnkyl]

lol at indysurfn not knowing what the hell he's talking about XD

[PirateThom]

indysurfn - There's a difference between native resolution and supported resolution. Ghostboosters on 360 is native 720p, but supports upto 1080p through upscaling (most 360 games allow this due to the internal scaler chip).

[iagainsti120]

from my count the PS3 has only one more 1080p game than the 360 has but the 360 runs more games at true 720p and the ps3 has more that are under 720p

this is just from counting full release games not including XBLA or psn

ps3 http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...
xb360 http://forum.beyond3d.com/s...

[talltony]

Please just stop so you dont make a fool of yourself even more. Your the only one that is irrational here. It's obvious you dont know what the hell is going on.

[Xi]

would rather have a better looking game then an HD game. If developers are sacrificing resolution for better performance and visual fedility then there's no complaints for me.

[somekindofmike]

agreed, people need to sit back and enjoy there games rather than counting pixels!

[Richdad]

I agree performance and quality> resolution. Infact HD resolution is meant to give quality and if not, then there is definitely no need for it.
But I think now we will see 480p game also. But they might have a much better overall look.

[Hoolock]

I love HD, i mean i really love HD but if the Devs say they can get more from my platforms without me noticing to a great deal that im not in HD i would be happy as long as the Xbox's HD upscaler still takes effect. I couldnt stand either the NXE or the XMB in SD though, they just look nasty.

[Time_Is_On_My_Side]

You must be a Nintendo fan because once you see games playing in HD you won't want to go back. The more a dev can do the better the gaming experience is going to be. For example "Infamous" is an example of more - of quality of course - makes a better game. Haven't you noticed that HD games lead the herd?

[somekindofmike]

I've played plenty of HD games on both consoles, but it doesn't stop super mario galaxy looking stunning!

Art Direction > Pixel Count anyday

(EDIT) i'd like to add I much prefer my PS3 to my wii, but mainly due to the amount of shovelware on the Wii! very few games are anywhere near the quality of Galaxy,

[KingKionic]

There giving devs the option ?

[S M N]

and give who have a Full HD 50"+ the finger

[dirthurts]

Build a pc. Current consoles are not HD beasts. Just sort of HD...

[ShabzS]

but will the dev's take it ?... they shouldnt even provide an option like that ... it takes a step back from progress .... its crazy

[Kleptic]

the option has always been there...remember the Halo 3 debacle?...640p or whatever...and cod 4 and world at war were both at 600p or something...

doesn't really matter...just makes it funny when the console manufacturers keep screaming about HD this and that...yet a lot of games are not HD...

[SaberEdge]

Not to mention Metal Gear Solid 4 which is 1024x768. Lots of games have been less than HD resolutions, but they still look good.

[presto717]

Guess the hardware just couldnt handle full HD.

Oh well...

[blackbeld]

Nothing new here... It's obvious 360 couldn't handle HD resolutions.... It's getting overheated like a roasted Duck....

[Natsu X FairyTail]

"However, Jefferies later claims in the article that Microsoft has dropped the 1280x720 stipulation, allowing developers working on non-Halo titles to make the choice between resolution and quality as they so choose"

So if the Devs want to make a HD game they'll do it and if they want to make a SD game theyll do it?

MS wont care?

what about people who got HDMI cables and want HD games?

wtf

[sunil]

giving the flexibility is a good thing... This will infact give rise to better quality games (imo)

[moscardini7]

overhead the for sure

[Kushan]

I'm calling FUD on this one. There's a LOT of games out there that run in sub-HD resolutions, not just MS-approved ones either.

[divideby0]

I thought I read already that a few high profile games, the pixel counters already shown that this has been ignored ?

[jmare]

But they were upscaled, at least I thought they were. It seems like MS is opening the floodgates and allowing any developer to do this instead of only allowing the high-profile games to get away with this..

[N4G king]

im sure in the playstation3
the dev. can have both (resolution and quality) with no problem

=)

[cc_star]

Pointless article

There are many many games that don't run anywhere near 720p

Here are a couple of big ones
Halo 3, CoD4, CoD5, MW2 & GTA IV

Pointless!

[ShabzS]

i thought gta 4 runs on 720p on 360 ?

and cod 4 looks amazing ... the "overgrown" map still looks superb

but i certainly dont want this to be a norm in ALL games

[jmare]

You're missing the point. Those are all high profile games that would hurt the 360 to not have. This article seems to be saying that MS is going to let all developers do this, not just allow the high profile games to do this.

[Reevr]

I wouldn't say CoD4 looks "amazing". Sure it looks nice but you can easily tell that it's not in HD. The stupid squares all over the screen that are artifacts from upscaling really drive me crazy. They need to find a way to get rid of those.

[Funky Town_TX]

I agree COD4 looked very good and it was sub. So by this foolish logic PAC Man in 1080p beats COD4 in 640p or what ever it is. If the game looks good then it looks good.

[thehitman]

Resolution is only a power measurement doesnt mean higher is always better or lower is always worse.

[raztad]

I dont agree. Sorry but I think you are just trying to put a good face to a bad situation.

A game with lower resolution get a hit and you notice it, easily. 1080p is sharper than 720p, and 720p is sharper than anything sub-HD. Of course you always can cover up your poor resolution implementing some AA. I think that is the way MS is allowing devs to follow, but at what cost? probably PS3 multiplat games will get a lower resolution as well to be on par with x360's. That would be sad cause it is harder to implement AA on PS3, but devs can reach higher resolution easier.

[Tiberium]

so street fighter HD remix (1080p) looks better than killzone 2 (720p)? I think not.

[raztad]

I guess not, but what I'm saying is: a lower res decreases sharpness. I would love to play KZ2 at 1080p or upcoming GoW3 (devels expect to reach 1080p).

I have been making some comparisons using Batman:AA demo on PC connected to my 1080p TV. Changing from 1280x720 60hz to 1900x1080 60hz the difference is quite noticeable, 1080p is clearly sharper. I tried out the PS3 demo version as well, it looks quite similar to 720p PC. To tell the true if Pc batman version wasnt so late in the party I would buy it instead of PS3's just to enjoy the game at 1080p.

[Demon5500]

This happen a while ago in the dev community but it is up to the devs if they choose to do it, but I Do not think many company's will support 480P Sd games, This will only be for games that cant be remade to HD like turbo graphics and the early console games, Just think wii shop games, But they still will use the upscale chip to make them look better on Hd 1080p Tv's. It a win for everybody more game on xbox live, And there is some games in dev that I have seen that run and look better then uncharted 2, And this comes down to Ms new 1 gig sdk, It wont belong in till we see these games and people wonder why some xbox games this year got pushed back till next year, just wait Xenos is about to be used.

[andygawg]

Most games say "HDTV 720p/1080i/1080p on the back of the box. This simply means what your Xbox/TV can scale it to.

It would be interesting if games listed the real encoding resolution. Problem is, simple games without dynamic lighting and other cpu/gpu intensive programming would seem better if you used just this as a yard stick. Personally, I use my eyes. A puzzle game with static backgrounds could be encoded at 1080p, but a game like Halo3 could never do that on current gen. hardware.

It's not the size (of your pixels) that count; it's the way you use them!

[Saaking]

The 360 devs choose not to do native 1080p. Very few if any game do 1080p native.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

There was never a 720p requirement because the 360 has an upscaler that will push resolutions to 720p and 1080p at no matter what the native is.

Games like Modern Warfare run at 640p and did not have any requirements to make them 720. The native res was 640p but the upscaler in the 360 pushed it to 720p or 1080p.

This seems confusing. I thought the developers always had a choice in what native resolution they make their games. There have been very little true 720 and 1080p NATIVE games on this generation of consoles.

[No_NaMe]

Is 60FPS 1080p.

Ofc 1st PArties can do that...Because X-Engine.

[KingKionic]

What?!?!

[madjedi]

@demon5500

Well what are these games in development that look and run better than uncharted 2, the beta run smooth as hell to me minus an occasional server reboot, but still kicked ass. And by run you mean hands on gameplay right, cause uncharted 2 ran great to me.

Okay you do realise that the 1 gig sku your talking about is only for developers right, the extra ram is there to help them with testing/debugging, the 360 will only have 512 megs of shared memory in the regular console version. Sorry but the only thing those 360 games will have from being pushed back are the standard,testing, bugfixes, story/game completion, modes ect.

There will be no super massive graphics increase, they may get a slight bump or polish in the graphics area, but thats just regular development progress.

[keysy420]

we were pushing this sytem to the max to make it look like it wasnt a ps2.5 but now that we have a loyal fan base of idiots we are not gonna put money into are games to save money. and your idiots will still buy games on our system.
WE have known that we weren't able to do true hd on our system, but because we have a sh1t load of money we can get devlopers to hold the ps3 back from putting full games out and we charge you for the dlc which is the rest of the game

[CobraKai]

It's funny, I thought they would be trying to up the resolution, not lower it. If it means 60fps i'm all for it.

[Goomba12]

Interesting. You would think by now over heating on consoles wouldn't be an issue. Pirate Thom has a good point