Gameguru writes"Halo: Reach is being propagated as the next game to use technology that packs a wallop and this is what is being discussed as being put into the new engine that is being developed for the game."
i love halo but i agree that the engine needed a change.
yea, odst is looking exactly like halo 3, which isn't bad, but the engine could do with a little bit of a face lift. They should push for something new in reach. we know the 360 can do better than halo3.
Good news if it's true. Although the current Halo engine does what it has to do, and does it well, future games do need an upgrade, especially with very pretty games like Killzone 2 and Uncharted 2 arriving on the PS3. I'm sure we'll see mid next year when the 'Reach' beta starts! Also, can the X360 do Direct X11? Hmmmm, sounds a little out there, but with all the upgrades and updates that MS push out, maybe they have something secret somewhere in that X360 that may be upgradable. Maybe not, but its a thought.
Why shouldnt it be able to run DX11?? Maybe the tech in the 360 GPU was designed for future DX version support.
Bungie are pretty technically minded so i'm sure they'll pull a good engine out their butts for Reach. They'd better, to be honest. As for DX11, directx has got nothing to do with consoles. DX is a pc thing - it's more like saying what to do to do something, rather than saying what to do. You could probably manage features that are listed as 'dx11' on the console hardware - but remember that they are dx9.0c generation silicon so wouldn't be great at doing it.
Wow. I am so stoked for this game!!
Except it features a bit more AA, which is pretty much the only thing i think the game could really use. Halo 3 isn't an ugly game by any stretch but it had some awful AA. The engine is designed for large open maps, and several enemies. Halo 3's the storm and floodgate is estimated as 20km - 30km maps and can feature over 25 enemies at once, more if you include the flood. (and not the fake ones like in gears) http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
If they can manage a ton of enemies on screen plus lots of particles effects (lasers/explosiion/etc), then maybe they can out do Resistance 2.
Well, the difference between halo 3 and R2 is already relatively small. http://www.cinemablend.com/...
going to be a FPS/RTS hybrid. I doubt it, but itd be cool.
Reach is made by bungie, so its a FPS
In H3 the game is recording everything that happens, and everything is happening in realtime. you can watch your replays, pause and go check out other stuff that was happening when you were playing. also, the light engine was top notch that MDR/HDR lighting was very impressive. And let's not forget the impressive AI. There is so much code to their AI, it's not even funny.
Article is bull. You can't just add DX11 technology like tessalation and domain shaders to a 2005 DX9 GPU.
I don't get why you go so many negative thumbs. It's not really possible to do, and even trying to reverse engineer things like that will result in poor performance.
Just because something is compliant to an API doesn't mean it's limited to it. Shaders are programmable, you can do what you will with them.
Lol edhe you clearly don't get it, you just can't make it DX11. It's not a matter of shaders which the Xbox already had shader model 3 probably 3+.
the r500, the chip in the 360, does have the ability to do tessellation as it's built into every ati card after the r500's development, but it's limited by the bios. Feel free to search it up on google. "The GPU is equipped with an extra feature which is not part of the current DirectX 10.0 specification. It contains programmable tessellation units, similar to those within the [xbox 360] Xenos GPU (codenamed "C1") also developed by ATI." Maybe this is a feature of the "x-engine" to allow the use of tessellation. Also, panda the Xenos is actually the first DX10 capable card, developed in partnership between ATI and Microsoft, and is why it can do full hdr.
I didn't say anything about dx11 in that comment, what i said is still entirely correct.
I get so many disagrees because Xbox 360 gamers don't know jack sh1t about technology and think because I said something that is impossible is in fact impossible, that I'm doing it just to attack their precious console.
if you weren't so wrong. You posted nothing that proves you're right. Where I've provided direct proof that the 360 is capable of tessellation a feature that's represented in this article. The card features the ability to do tessellation with it being built into the card. Tell us, why is it impossible for the xenos to do tessellation.
Xenos was built off of ATI's plans for its future Direct X 10.1 GPU's, the R600/700. When Xenos was first being talked about people used to call it R500, which was incorrect. Xenos has features that put it above Direct X 10, it's just that the API in use by Xbox 360 dev kits only exposes mostly Direct X 9.0c features, and a few more more to form Direct X Xbox. By upgrading the API and dev kits they can eventually fully utilize Xenos's power.
This is also why some developers need that extra ram to test their new code performance. Two of the new stages are programmable (the hull and domain shader stages) and one is configurable (the tessellator stage). The xbox 360 is not a brute force chip compared to the tech coming out this year for direct x 11 yet if you watch your resources you can make use of the pooled memory set up the xbox 360 has, which is why so many complain about the rsx set up. You see we told you it was not future proof LOL. This is really the reason why the PS3 was a let down in so many ways, maybe not to the gamers yet more to the developers. The tessellator is a fix function tech and the cell in the PS3 is not powerful enough to produce the same out come as a true fix function set up. It takes the larrabee 30 cores to do what ati will be able to do in one fix function hardware. Devs will need this extra ram to see what is going on with in their code and set up of this tessellator and how it effects the new programmable parts. The commercial tools are coming in august also! This is new tech we are playing with but it is not uncommon. To use it before MS's API you basicly had to create your own drivers which is pretty hard to do if you are not MS. MS pretty much tells the hardware guys what to support. I'm glad some one leaked this stuff because directX 11 is going to be fun and the new GPU like cpus are going to be fun also. We will get a little next gen bump right now before the next gen. NDAs are in full effect here. ATI is currently ahead of this game by a few years and nvidia was one of the main reason this tech was left unused. What is funny is even in the PC realm this has been confirmed by gamers and devs. Yet no one supported it because ati was the only guys to do some thing with it. Now you have intel jumping in so nvidia has to answer. Right now people a debugging stuff and a few things have been shown but if we or other developers get what we want from this new tech you will have almost the effect of real time sub divisions happening along with real geometry with normal maps or with out normal maps. If this new method is faster than normal maps then it would be a superior tech. This will mix texture mapping and high polygon modeling together. There is the possibility that you could achieve better looking texture this way and use less ram. Since this is more of a procedural method. I'm not sure how people are going to get this running on the PS3 in game. I'm sure they can do a tech demo on the CPU but the two new programmable stages will need more shader power (the hull and domain shader stages) and they do not have super fast access to ram yet the xbox 360 does have that fast sram that PC video card do not even have. If MS does pull this off or developers do pull this stuff off then it will leave the PS3 in the dust yet we are unable to know how much we can exploit this new api yet. So xbox 360 fan boys should not pull out their fire works yet. What was funny was people would try to use these feature before but the debug coding would get rejected. For more info and stuff that is not sealed in the NDAs try this location. http://msdn.microsoft.com/e... This is why I call SONY's acts chest beating. Every one knows what they are working with and we all know that nvidia was way behind ati when they made these chips for these console. On top of this any benifit that the cell could add would be crippled by the data bus and lack of dedicated hardware. The people that knew the xbox 360d hardware tried to tell these guys that the 360 was no chump.... every one was dismissed as fanboys. Now we have a potential spec update coming from a mere api upgrade LOL and if SONY does not have an answer then we have a problem on top of a looming price drop that would cause sony to loose even more money. SONY would loose the elite crown and get called a high tech dvd player and it would stick this time. I always said that MS baited sony into this game of HD gaming and the gamer co-signed it. After all of this hype about how the PS3 is so powerful it may not be able to support some thing as important as a api update. Yet we will all be waiting. Yet even if they do support it the nvidia hardware will hold the PS3 back. This could get really ugly for SONY because they claim and hold on to the claim that their tech is better and it warrants such a high price. If you like blu rays then yes but tech wise this is about graphical APIs and even though the xbox dies so much that will not effect it too much once we see what the dev community is able to do with this new api.
Okay, guess I was wrong. I didn't realize ATi's 1xxx series had tessalator units.
very true. and this is why MS said in 2005 they made Xenos GPU 2 gen ahead of time. And that's why MS will win this HD gen. I wonder how clever Microsoft is. They know their stuff.
apparently you can
Yeah Halo could use a New engine! And Less Power Rangers like Colors that always had me saying halo is wack. Im not a big halo fan but after seeing ODST which looks Darker , I felt like getting into the series so ODST shall be my 1st Halo game I actually buy with my own money.
I couldn't agree more, I wasn't sure if Halo was a serious shooter, the enemies need an upgrade. I mean yes at first the squeek is funny but your fighting a war, I want some enemies that would scare me... and not be my childs toy.
Colour in games is nice, so's humour. A good shooter doesn't have to be devoid of character to be good.
agreed...personally i like lots of colour. when i think of video games i think of Ridge racer type 4`s light trails and halos conevenant weapons shooting shards/beams of deadly neon ammo.OKami looks like ink coming to life, jet sat radio looks and feels right.One of the reasons i want a for that patapon game, the art style is just crazy! N+ and mirrors edge have this simplistic ,funtional beauty about them (the way things are cleverly color coded in mirrors edge is what drwas me to still do the time trials...) There is some thing almost hypnotic about skillfully/narrowly dodging a needlers/plasma rifles and hearing those searing FX while focusing on your targets.It just puts me in this zone where im an unstoppable pwnin machine.COD4 is my current favorite fps..but halo is always near saying "im not done with you!".. Reach is by far the game i want the most next year. I KNOW bungie are gonna turn the heat up! new tech, and a new take on the halo universe.."color" me impressed :)
Can't wait for this, Agent, and God of War 3. Id be cool ta see at least SOME Natal implementation.
This game is going to be the shiz. EDIT: I also agree the engine needed a change, sub-HD resolution is NOT acceptable.
I agree sub-HD resolution is not acceptable, specially if you own a HDTV that cost $1000+ when you bought it.
You can make a game look absolutely great using a sub HD resolution, the biggest problem is the lack of normal mapping and poor AA. Technically the game is 2 x 640p as each image is being rendered twice for a high and low HDR light pass. The engine was also designed to be run with the use of a hard drive which caused a lot of headache for bungie when developing halo 3.
Anyway its good to know that the halo engine is getting a massive upgrade
hey why are people surprised about dx11 the original name for the console was the Direct-X-box duh designed to play direct-x
No... It can't... You don't just arbitrarily add new tech to old GPUs. It doesn't work like that.
why not? I'd love to know.
Because it doesn't work like that. If they could just add new features to old GPU's, they wouldn't need to make new ones. The 360's GPU is the ATI equivelent of the Geforce 7900 GTX or something. A DX9 card from 2005. You can't just go and put 2009's DirectX 11 hardware features in there because the 7900 GTX wouldn't know how to react.
Actually the Xenos is the R500, and was developed in partnership between microsoft and ATI to utilize feature that were supposed to be in DX10 such as tessellation and shader model 4.0. http://www.beyond3d.com/con... The card is actually DX9+ capable featuring some lowerlevel dx10 features and is the basses for the r600 series of cards made by ATI including the Radeon HD 3800. The card also feature a built in tessellation unit. http://www.xbitlabs.com/new... "ATI claims that the tessellation unit of the Xbox 360 GPU was integrated into the ATI Radeon HD 2000-/3000-series graphics processors, which is why it could be programmed only using vertex shaders." just because a card has feature locked through the bios doesn't mean it can do them. If you release an update you can make those features available for use. Second of all, shaders are programmable, you can emulate shader functions from DX 10-11 on older cards, and this is microsoft we're talking about, the people that develop Directx. Just like you can emulate HDR a Directx feature on onpengl. All you're saying is "card is old, old things can't do new things".
it's an r600/700 series chip. r500 was the x1xxx series, which were still standard dedicated shader array GPUs. ps3's RSX is also a standard dedicated shader array GPU, equivalent to a 7 series GeForce. Xenos's actual direct nVidia counterpart would be the 8 series GeForce, since it's the first nVidia chip to finally adopt unified shaders. Panda, they're not adding tech to the Xenos. It's already builtin. They're talking about the SOFTWARE, the dev kits. The API.
To help you understand Pandamobile the only thing stopping developers from using these new feature was the driver environment which seems to be pretty much solidified now. Also MS only brags to the developers about stuff like this because with out them then you could pretty much sya you did not add any thing. Besides it make you look lame sort of like how SONY claimed their system was superior when people in the know knew better. It is sort of the same reason why most developers don't waste time making crazy shaders for the Wii because they would have to emulate things. Yet the most important part of directx 11 needs a tessellator unit and oh lordy the 360 has one! Now that is a lot harder to emulate LOL. We will see what the PS3 can do to fix this problem since it is not a video decoder optimized problem.
This halo Reach sound interesting.
ODST this year and REACH the next.... MS is way ahead of the pack, just pure genius....
Halo, Halo, and more Halo. Real original.
I heard MGS on the iphone was pretty original...
oooo sounds good! \¯\/¯/ |¯|)¯) /¯/\¯\ \¯\/¯/ ====KasperNZ===== /_/\_\ |_|)_) \_\/_/ /_/\_\
I am willing to bet with a game lineup of Halo: Reach, Alan Wake, Crackdown 2, Mass Effect 2, and possibly Gears 3, and of course Natal...Microsoft and X360 will have a big year in 2010.
Then theres all the stuff they havent announced yet..and you know how secretive MS are already. hopefully Rare come out guns blazin` with a perfect dark game that is true to form ,along Killer instct and a new AAA IP. If APB turns out to be good 360 MMO that will really sweeten an already promising 2010..turn up the voltage MS ,you want to beat the competiton, dont you?
then comes GOW3 U2 GT5 and makes all that look like a joke
I really cannot picture what this halo will look like! But I'm really excited! I loved Halo 3, been a fan since the first and will be till the last =] Edit: I agree, i love the darker feel of ODST. I want something along the lines of the halo 3 Believe trailer, now that would be epic yeah? Discusssss :D
I'm hungry to see it's gameplay and graphics.
I'd be amazed if graphics were close to killzone 2. My jaw would drop but we'll see.
well i felt that halo 3 could of looked better if they didnt just use a re worked halo 2 engine.
Alot of people dont realise this when they slag off halo 3. The game engine is an enhanced halo2 engine. the mind does boggle at what bungie will do with an engine built from the ground up on the 360. I expect to be shocked, awed and impressed.
I'd love to see what someone can do with an engine worked from the ground up based solely on the 360 architecture and it's strengths. Halo 3 was the flagship title for the 360 and as such was visually embarrassing, not just because it ran at a sub HD resolution but it just didn't look anything like as goos as say Gears of War (the first one) and a fair few other games.
If you look deep enough, you'll find some interesting things about Halo 3 that really made it shine. Even if it didn't look as good as Gears of War there's still a lot that I personally found amazing. It wasn't halfassed or re-done to me, and the jungle landscape was pretty sweet at the beginning! Still, I guess the texture work and actual models for humans could definitely use a facelift. But you guys gotta remember that a game can't just survive on graphics, and Halo 3 is proof that gameplay matters.
ApocalyPS3 great post! +bub and I have to agree if you look at Halo 3 it did do some great things graphically.
will be on the best games in 2010.
mmmmm **god of war**, *gran turismo 5*,*heavy rain*, dc universe, the agency, the agent, resistance 3, the saboteur, mod nation racers. and the next cod game will seriously hurt its chances tbh
So you are saying that those games are gonna keep people from buying Halo? They should be good games, but they really don't have jack sh!t to do with Halo's sales or quality.
Interested to see what they're going to pull graphics wise when Reach is shown sometime next year.
i got a question wat engine they used for halo 3 the same one kuz it needs a change and this is good finally
Sounds good. Why don't Bungie try and make the game bigger than 9 gigs. Oh wait they can't. So your saying Reach will be what you expect from Halo, but with the potential to be prettier?
even 1 disk for the game and a separate one for multiplayer would work good. Id rather have to swap disks than install any day. It takes way less time to swap a disk than to install a game.
What is funny is this whole talk about needing all this storage space is pretty silly. Do you know the meg foot print of a 30k model? You also realize your textures will not be upgraded because there is simply not enough ram to do so. Yet when you look at the feature set of the direct x 11 model you will see you can get 10 times the detail almost just from a color map and the Tess setup. This will not need more disk space because it will take a nurb model approach. This mean you can take a 400 polygon model and make it look better than current gen models even on the PC if done correctly. Subdivisions really do change the game and normal map was away of faking it. We are talking about real polygons and real polygon shaders that can be mapped to any thing almost so particle wise you could see some crazy stuff only possible on the xbox 360. I'm not sure how differed rendering is going to out do such a thing. The PS3 could be left faking it while the 360 does the real thing... that would be a death hammer in some ways.
No screenshots yet, and already people are fawning over it and saying it will look better than Killzone 2. AT LEAST wait until you see some screenshots and gameplay, people.
You mean hype? Yeah, Killzone 2 didn't go through none of that with PS3 owners. cough "sarcasm" cough
No game yet, and PS3 fans are making excuses getting all defensive. All there doing is talking about what technology will be involved in the game's development so lets wait for the game before you guys start making excuses and bashing the game. Stupid logic. Why do they have to wait for screenshots to talk about what tech the game will be using. We need screenshots before developers, media and gamers can talk about REACH?