Check Out 360's 1080p Smooth Streaming Tech Now

Digital Foundry writes:

"The idea here is that 'Smooth Streaming' allows for an instant start to watching your video with no perceivable buffering, with the picture quality dynamically changing according to the bandwidth conditions. Should you have access to a sustained five megabits of bandwidth between you and the server, Microsoft promises a full 1080p video stream with 5.1 surround sound. If those conditions change for the worse, the stream dynamically switches to a lower quality, lower bandwidth version without skipping a beat.

Initial reports from the E3 conference suggested that this technology would be a US only affair for users of the NetFlix video streaming service, but PR blurb from Microsoft this morning suggests that Smooth Streaming is set to be rolled out on the new, improved Zune video service that sees the Xbox Live video marketplace expand from coverage in eight territories to eighteen.

So, just how good is it? Will it stand up to real life internet conditions? Is it all just PR hype or has Microsoft actually delivered something here?"

[GiantEnemyCrab]

"Initial reports from the E3 conference suggested that this technology would be a US only affair for users of the NetFlix video streaming service,"

Wrong. MS was very clear that they will be rolling this across all Video Marketplace content and I don't recall MS even mentioning Netflix since MS has nothing to do with the Netflix service beyond providing a portal. They could very well do this for Netflix but MS was speaking about it's video marketplace.

Love the improvements and keep them coming MS.

[Ausbo]

that is some nice tech, hope it works good.

[Marcelles25]

i still think this is far off for most users i have a 12mbs streaming it only gives me an average of three

doesnt beat tangible media like bluray GREAT for rentals though not for buying

[CWMR]

-For me both technologies can exist side by side. I have my ps3 for Blu-ray and my 360 for Netflix and the new 1080p movie streaming. Depending on a lot of factors one or the other will be preferred in a given situation. Really nice technology though.-

[Christopher]

You're not going to get the speed needed with a wireless connection on the 360 for this, IMHO. Definitely will need an ethernet connection with it at least running through an n wireless router.

Also, the _only_ thing true about this 1080 video is the resolution. It's a very compressed version of what comes on BDs. The thing is that most people won't really be able to tell the difference unless they have 40+" screens and even then most people won't care enough to go one way or another other than whether or not they want a physical medium or a digital medium.

[phosphor112]

yay me.... -_-

[Anon1974]

Like Netflix, we'll probably never see it on our 360's up north, just like our XBL Videostore is severely gutted compared to our neighbors to the south. It's too bad. A high def on-demand service is something I'd pay for. My cable company has a couple of pay-per-view channels in hi-def but nothing current is ever on them, and their video on demand is just a joke. Sony's video service hasn't come to Canada yet at all.

I guess I'll just keep getting my hi-def fix from Blu-Ray for the time being.

[Immortal Kaim]

Hey atleast you have had some type of video service up until now...plus isn't Canada part of the roll-out?

Too bad this tech will be all but pointless in places like Australia where the speeds and download limits are archaic...though that isn't MS's fault, but our main ISP (Telstra) who has dictated these things for too long now.

[FarEastOrient]

So when are we going to deal with the big elephant in the room? Bandwidth speeds and data caps, I'm looking at you Time Warner and Comcast!

[read disc error]

The reason there is no Netflix streaming outside of the USA is because Netflix is an American company that only has offices and licenses in the USA. The rental laws in America are pretty liberal and I'm not sure something like Netflix (unlimited rentals, one set fee) would even be legal in a lot of European countries or even Canada.

[phosphor112]

Don't believe me when I say my internet sucks?

http://www.speedtest.net/re...

Proof that until US stops being stingy with broadband, people like me wont be able to benefit from this stuff.

[Syronicus]

Only if you can sustain a decent connection tot he server. Int hat case, good luck to those of us in the US. I have a 20 meg service and get 4 bars on netflix (when I used it through Live) but most if not all of my buddies have a 6 meg or less service that would never let them get these results.

I use PlayOn now and instead of having to pay for Live to use the Netflix service I already pay a monthly fee for, I can see all of my instant watch movies for no extra monthly fee on my Xbox. For those with only a PS3 or Xbox and that do not want to pay for Live should definitely check out PlayOn. It is the best service for this Netflix streaming.

On a side note, true 1080p with 5.1 is just not achievable at 6 to 8 mbps considering that BD provides 1080p at 24 to 36 mbps. If you want true HD, you need BD, not digital downloads. If you want budget HD, then DDL is the way to go.

[edhe]

So.. yeah, you do realise that wireless networking is usually a 54 mbps connection that may average 20-30 mbps and that dsl/cable average is about 2-8 mbps?

You're wrong! :)

[Random404]

Wireless G is overkill for streaming a 5 megabit connection. It just depends on the distance between your router and 360. Your 360 would have to be pretty far away from your router to not have a 5 megabit connection. I'm just letting you know what all the disagrees are for.

For those complaining about their bandwidth just wait 10 minutes for the movie to buffer to get the best quality.

[Christopher]

No, I'm not. What's wrong is what Microsoft is proposing. There's no way they'll be providing "true" or even close to true 1080p video service of 1080 resolution movies. No way at all.

The standard 300kb/s cable service can download 25 GB in one day. The best compression out there without too much loss of quality has a 7.5-10 GB file size for 1080 resolution movies. That means for the standard user, it would take more than 7 hours to download one 1080 resolution movie with the best compression out there.

This doesn't take into account any weaknesses when utilizing wireless connections (delays, shared patterns throughout a house, weakness due to distance or travelling through certain materials, etc.).

So, unless Microsoft has found a miraculous new way to store a near-flawless 1080 compressed video up on the Web that is less than 0.01 GB (10.24 MB) per minute of the movie (meaning less than 1 GB for a 90 minute movie), there's no way this will work for the standard user.

I have a 20 MB/s (actual 14.2 MB/s) download connection at home with a N Broadband router that is in 20 feet of my 360 and PS3 w/o any obstructions. I can watch 720p movies almost immediately and without any delays but cannot do the same with 1080p movies. And, those movies that I do watch are seriously lacking in the quality that I have with my Blu-ray movies.

Now, if you're happy watching an extremely compressed video, good for you. But, honestly, I don't think most people will want to watch anything at a level of compression that would be required for immediate streaming and playing unless they had a very strong connection and an very above average connection rate.

Also, just to get it out for once. At E3 they said no waiting, no downloading. Dear Microsoft, as leaders in the IT industry, please don't try and say that streaming doesn't require downloading data. Freaking marketing morons.

[All-3]

--> The thing is that most people won't really be able to tell the difference unless they have 40+" screens and even then most people won't care enough to go one way or another other than whether or not they want a physical medium or a digital medium.

Ehhh?

--> Also, just to get it out for once. At E3 they said no waiting, no downloading. Dear Microsoft, as leaders in the IT industry, please don't try and say that streaming doesn't require downloading data. Freaking marketing morons.

I believe they mean you do not have to download and store the entire movie, like you do with PSN and Xbox marketplace games, as examples.

Streaming, as you know is different from downloading first and then watching.

http://www.iis.net/media/ex...

[KRUSSIDULL]

Time to upgrade to 300Mb/s.

[Consoldtobots]

while I'm all for Microsoft showing us what they are made of and finally putting up stiffer competition in what they offer the end user, I have HUGE reservations about ANYBODY offering a 1080p stream over the internet. The PS3 streams 1080p video at 27mbits per second, already over 5 times the bandwidth MS is saying it will need to achieve this. Did they come up with a new compression algorythm they are telling no-one about? Somehow I doubt it, but hey you never know.

[Christopher]

Actually, you do have to download and store the whole movie with streaming. The only difference is that once you end the streaming the 'temporary file' can be set to be automatically deleted. Most times it isn't deleted right away-likely within one or two weeks-since the purpose of downloading the whole file is to mark where you were when you were last watching the video.

The _only_ true difference, technologically, between downloading and streaming a movie is that you can watch a stream of the movie in real-time while it's being downloaded. Otherwise, they are the exact same thing.

Edit: Little side note, when I was watching it off of G4 with my wife, even she had this dumbfounded look on her face and said "did they just say that you don't have to download something in order to watch a movie, but then immediately contradicted themselves by saying it would be available by streaming?" It was a definitely LOL moment for me since she's an accountant and knows very little about technology.

And, yeah, that first part you quoted might be a bit confusing. But, I was saying that most people are happy with the current 1080 downloads since most people don't pay enough attention to the detail of a movie to see the difference between a 1080 compressed video and a true 1080p movie on Blu-ray. But, regardless of that, you're still going to have the people who will always want physical mediums (discs) compared to digital mediums (files on a HDD).

Edit: Just to clarify, 300 Kb/s is kilobits, not kilobytes. Same with 20 Mb/s, megabits not megabytes. I inappropriately used MB above, which means megabytes, when I should have used Mb.

[Tito Jackson]

F*CK THIS SMOOTH MUSIC STEVE!
I AINT THAT LITTLE BOY ANYMORE.
HOW AM I SUPPOSED TO STICK, MY D*CK, INTO SOME P*SSY---WHEN YOU GOT ME SINGING LIKE ONE, AINT THAT RIGHT, EDDIE!

*back on topic*--> Im glad it "works", but I've been streamin blu-ray/HD rips thru my 360 for a while now. But im glad that MS is adding more features to their products.

[shadow2797]

You people are way too skeptical, isn't it possible that they are using a compression algorithm similar to OnLive? It also states in the summary that it will switch to a lower quality version if your connection can't handle it.

Odds are, they've found a way to to compress the streams heavily without a large loss in quality. Microsoft isn't going to release something that isn't going to work for most people (And don't bring up RROD, this is software).

[edgeofblade]

Microsoft, turning up the heat on Blu-ray. I like to see a little competition after HDDVD went bums to the clouds.

Don't get me wrong... I can't wait for my Battlestar Galactica Blu-ray set.

[mac_sparrow]

a 5megabit connection, gonna be some heavy colour subsampling going on for one then. nice idea, years off being good

[cjflora]

I just can't get behind this streaming stuff. I paid alot of money for my tv, so when I watch things I like it to be great quality all of the time. I tried even streaming from my PC to my PS3, but I'd just rather watch whatever it is in HD. I'm spoiled now. I used to download Weeds and Dexter, but I don't like the lower quality, so I now pay for Showtime so I can watch it in higher quality.

[LazyDevs]

I will wait and hold my breath on this one until they actually do it. Also at transferring that type of video stream people that have Cat 5 cable will tend to loose connections and such. Good thing i ran Cat 6 all through the house.

[edhe]

All you folk keep assuming that 1080p means 1080p raw like hd dvd, blu-ray.

It's.. not.

Just like dvd, mpeg or w/e has been before it this standard will be delivering that resolution via compression. The article explains it - so far 1080p decode has been clumsy, now VC-1 is doing it dynamically.

So to all the people saying that 1080p must be above a certain bandwidth well do please shut up as it doesn't. And you can be sure that the codec will deliver as rich a picture as possible, even over just a few mbps.

Why knock such a promising concept ?

[IdleLeeSiuLung]

If history has shown us anything, it isn't always the most technologically advanced format that wins, but rather the most convenient. Case in point VHS vs. Betamax and Vinyl vs. Cassette.

That is probably why DLC is almost certain to replace physical disc once storage and bandwidth limitations have been overcome.

[Stryfeno2]

Cant wait...I need to upgrade my Zune 30gb to the ZuneHD. Its going to be a beautiful Xmas.

[user3915800]

Oh wait there is hardly any online, but they are the king of Pausing while on line lol....

OHHHHHH, but I wanted to do that too...... Sorry, but your hardware its not able to handle it, you see what we have its an exquisite obsolete hardware lol........

Sorry droids dream on, and ask for forgiveness for you have sin. I will write this christmas to the north Pole ans ask santa claus for a pink dildo for all PS3 owners..........

[Kill Crow]

I haven't rented or bought a DVD in ages ... and now I won't have to do the same for Blue rays either...

[JL]

I think this is all PR hype. I'll believe it when I see it. I just don't see them actually streaming 1080p. Especially since a majority of their customer base is in the US. In the US the average internet speed is like 4mbps, which is still lower than the overly compressed 5mbps they're shooting for. So most people won't even be able to use this in MS's biggest territory. Not to mention, 5mbps? Sure it might technically be 1080p, but at the kind of compression it might as well be no more than 720p. That compression will greatly diminish the quality. So like I said: PR hype, cause it's only "technically" 1080p, and that's only if you happen to be the select American customers with above-average connection speed.

[Golfcoachh]

Although its not very often that I can download very fast. Netflix usualy gives me HD signal when I instant an hd movie so it will be interesting to see how it works.

[really duh]

Well if anybody can do it its Microsoft. I heard PS3 fans say the same thing about Natal after the press conference presentation and even after it was being played by people on the floor.

Nice PSN ID

[Sean Ryno]

I have to admit that I hold the same pessimism as you. I love the 360 and especially xbox live but I find "true 1080p streaming live" hard to believe. Still looking forward to attempts to progress though.

[tplarkin7]

I have Comcast and I get 22 Mbps. I just played the video, and it worked as promised. It scaled on the fly and looks great, although under 1080p. Bandwidth is not the issue for me. This may be due to my computer's specs. It's a 3Ghz Pentium with 1GB RAM and an ATI x700 graphics card.

Regardless, it is instant and it works.

[JL]

@really duh
Yes, I have a PS3 and only a PS3. What does that have to do with anything? I think that just points out who is the real fanboy here. All I'm giving is facts. Average American connection speed: 4mpbs. MS biggest territory: US. Bitrate for TRUE hi-def 1080p video: upwards of 40mbps--thus 5mpbs is some serious compression. And it won't even stay at that, it drops below those gimped specs half the time.

@tplarkin
I do have comcast. I get 7mbps. Your 22mbps would only be attainable through comcast if you're paying for their higher tiered service (which I can almost guarantee most don't). By the way, stuff like your processor has nothing to do with internet speed.

The point here people is this: I don't doubt they can do this gimped version of hi-def. I just did it. However if you notice. It's running at a much lower bitrate (for me it's running more at an average of 3-3.5 with significant drops in several places), and on top of that the framerate isn't stable and consistently drops below 24fps (even as far as 10fps for a bit at one point). The point being, this isn't TRUE hi-def 1080p video. No more so than the PSN VideoStore or Comcast cable is. And there is where I disagree and say it's nothing more than PR Hype. MS making it sound like you'll get true 1080p hi-def video, when you're not. Sure it looks good, and better than standard def, but still not going to touch the quality of actually downloading a true HD movie or watching a Blu-ray or even HD-DVD disc.

[JL]

Last comment. Here, will this make it easier for you whining fanboys to digest and make it easier on you, not hurting your feelings so much?....The fault here isn't with Microsoft. No, not at all. There's nothing they can do about it. It's just a bottleneck that comes from the American connection speed. So if anyone prevents true hd 1080p streaming (at correct bitrates, with no compression, etc) it's the ISPs. MS could be the greatest software developers in the world, but they just can't accomplish this because our ISPs in the states here suck and we can't get near the amount of speed needed for something like this (like they can get in lots of other parts of the world, like Japan with their 60mbps average).

So there, don't worry, you can still sleep easy at night children, knowing it's not MS's fault. There's something that won't allow this to be done at all and that's the ISP. We just can't get that 50-60mbps here in the states needed to support something like true 1080p hd streaming, thus we're left with a version that's gimped in one way or another like this right here. Whether it be compression like here or the buffering on PSN videostore or the actual 720p and compression like on most Comcast stuff. It's the ISP that is to be blamed here.

[lovecipher7]

did you not do the demo it was streaming in 1080p. you need to check the demo out befor emaking a comment like that.

[FarEastOrient]

Both my PS3 and Xbox 360 is stuck out here in Iraq with me and we can only get 1 MB per sec at best. Even though I can get the internet out here just imagine the others in the same boat as me that are stuck with lower bandwidth speeds.

[phosphor112]

http://www.speedtest.net/re...
http://www.speedtest.net/re...
http://www.speedtest.net/re...
http://www.speedtest.net/re...
http://www.speedtest.net/re...

Yay only available connections!!!

[popup]

They are all to busy foaming at the mouth at a new 20 Mega-Pixel interpolated digital cameras with maximum compression JPEG storage. "It looks better than raw it does!" ;)

Look at this 1920x1080 picture I got. It's 1080!

This demo is very good though (although the subject matter is rather convienient and the flaws are kind of obvious during complicated scenes), great for a streaming service for those who just want to watch the film.

[nveenio]

They won't be streaming 1080p...it says it right there. If your bandwidth fluctuates even a little--anywhere in the line between your computer and their servers--the quality will be reduced. What they mean is that the technology allows for 1080p theoretically...not practically.

[poopface1]

http://www.speedtest.net/re...
mine is capable of doing this I guess. Jeez, at all the people with their panties in a bunch. Not everyone has good enough internet speeds, and it may not be 100% bluray or HD DVD quality, but it is a pretty huge improvement to whats currently out there.

I was impressed with the way netflix streams SD movies, so this to me is pretty neat. I may not use it, but its still a great feature. Looks like people are upset because microsoft actually pulled this off. Im sure the fanboys will try and downplay this, but it is a great feature, and Im glad that it might actually work.

[Kleptic]

this is all fine and great...but some of you people that think 1080p is all that matters in video quality need to research it a bit more...

If MS is saying you can get a 1080p resolution video content with a sustained transfer rate of 5mbps...that is NOT anything close to the quality that Blu Ray gives...not saying everyone thinks that, but a few guys are poking around saying its like streaming in a blu ray movie...not even close...BD is in the 30s iirc for most 24fps film content...the resolution may be the same, but color saturation and accuracy will be light years apart...its the same with the PSN too...you can download a movie in full HD, but its no where near as good as a real blu ray...

thats all...not trying to bring up the 'which is better' debate...but this confuses me anyway...so its just a dynamic video service like online television websites?...so you don't have to wait a minute or two before starting it?...thats cool if thats what it is, or is this something completely different?...

[trancefreak]

when is this available to xbox users this fall??

[StanLee]

This spit actually works!!! God dammit Microsoft may be on to something here! These lucky mucks!

[really duh]

You know the answer to that.

[StanLee]

I mean seriously though, buffering the movie while the ads and intros roll is genius. It's like loading a game during the cut scenes. Brilliant. I mean, Netflix buffers before the movie plays and goes back to the buffer screen when your internet speed changes which is a pain in the balls.

[JasonPC360PS3Wii]

Cable TV and SAT services are going to be pissed about what MS is doing here. This may take large bites out of their wallets, and take alot of the userbase.

[trancefreak]

@ Jason ya but who cares cable tv is so damn expensive. :)

[TiKiMaN1]

Wow I just streamed the video that wa linked in that article. It works fantastic.

[really duh]

http://www.iis.net/media/ex...

Pretty bad ass, ok really bad ass.

I'm going to get the Zune HD

[Erotic Sheep]

You're getting a Zune? My condolances :P

[Hockey11]

wth did i just watch?

[stonecold3]

your last gen console is already outdated with dvd9 so last gen blu ray already supports 1080p high def your obuslete last gen machine xbox 1.5 is running last gen dvd and are far from dead

[Stryfeno2]

Is that written in enlish?

[jack who]

i tryed really hard but wft?

[Deadman64]

It's not English, it's Sony bullshit

[Odion]

ya I just did it as well, I am impressed! Stuck at 4.9 mbs for almost the entire thing.

[JL]

Ok, I'll use my last comment here. The funny thing here is this guy gets nothing but agrees, when essentially he said the exact same thing I said that everybody is claiming me to be a fanboy or troll or just plain out of my mind for saying. You're right, it does stick at a fairly stable 4-5mpbs. That's the problem though. Just because something is 1080p doesn't make it TRUE hd quality. I'll give it to it, this does look good, and no buffering at all. But now go watch a blu-ray or hd-dvd. The bitrate is like 10 times higher, thus alot of compression is introduced here, and that causes a drop in image quality. (I really don't know how many more times I have to repeat myself)

Oh well, last comment I can make, just thought it was funny that I've been saying the exact same thing pretty much, just in different words and in more detail, yet I get a angry mob after me, and this guy gets straight up agrees one after the other.

[Odion]

Who cares, no one is going to know the difference.

[KingKionic]

optimum,com cast,roadrunner.

Even though those are shared they can give you more then 5 megs steady.

look at optimum ultra

http://www.optimum.com/onli...

[TiKiMaN1]

Same here. It works great. Very excited for this technology.

[salgoods]

its funny how 360 fanboys all say "you can barely tell the difference or no one will care" yet when the comparisons of multiplats come out and there is a difference of one pixel or some shrub in teh corner of the screen is blurrier on one version and not on the other, 360 fanboys scream "ha the xbox version is better! eat tht!"

[GiantEnemyCrab]

That's the beauty of this tech, it will scale the faster your connection the better the quality will be.

Nobody is suggesting this is going to replace Blu-ray and I am not going to argue that you won't get a better picture with BR. But this is streaming and the fact we can move beyond SD streaming(even if it is less than perfect 1080p like Blu-ray) I am all for it..

Both can and will coexist.

[MetalGearBear]

????

[KingKionic]

THIS IS SICK!

exscuse my caps...

EDIT

just amazing

http://www.iis.net/media/ex...

[FragMnTagM]

But it was pretty damn nice. I just watched it on my new 61" Samsung 1080p DLP, and it looked damn close to a blu ray at 3.4-4.5Mbps. This is some promising tech.

For the record, I have quite a few Blu Ray movies for my PS3, and this is not too far behind them. Good job MS.

On the other hand though, the color was not the brightest like a Blu Ray. It could very well be just the animated movie they showed. We need the same movie on Blu Ray and this streaming to see the differences. Transformers would be a good pick, or Iron Man. Transformers was amazing on Blu Ray.

[DaCajun]

I play games on my 360 why would i want movies on it. Already stream off my computer just fine. Plus i have DVDs and blurays that i pay for once and i can watch it anytime everyday if i want, just another way to suck money from us. To each there own i guess.

@ really duh stop being a trolling fanboy be a real gamer and not a whiney troll.

Xbox 360, PS3, Wii, and 2.5 Ghz triple core pentium 4Gb ram 8800 nvidia 1Gb video card

[KingKionic]

nivdia ftw.

[really duh]

You are kidding right? LMAO

"whiney troll" you best read #2's comment and your comment again.

[lowcarb]

What if i don't have bluray or a computer? Even still why would i use either of those when i could get all i need from 1 device called 360?

Edit below dacajun: lol...chill out bro! We listened to your stuff so play fair and hear us out as well. NO need in taking anything personal on N4G because it's free.

[DaCajun]

Everytime i see a comment from you like your first one on here you manage to bring negative comments about the ps3 into the conversation which has nothing to do with what the article is about or any one elses comment, why? no relevance.

[dcbronco]

Maybe so that you can stop streaming off your computer. Lots of people rent movies. Lots of us rent from Netflix. Netflix allows it's users to stream to their 360 for free so I'm not sure where they would be getting extra money out of us.

If it's not something you want, just don't buy it. I guess you have a PS3. Doesn't the PS3 have Blu-ray built in? I guess don't want people to use that for movies either. Actually, not many are anyway.

[jmare]

I tried it and it worked for the most part. The framerate was all over the place though and it took a while for it to respond to bandwidth changes. That was without a doubt the stupidest short used to display some awesome tech. It doesn't change the fact that this probably won't be 1080p for a lot of people due to bandwidth. But it does work, have to give MS credit for that.

EDIT: I used Vista/IE8. Yeah, it worked, but the tools provided showed the framerate jumping from 20 FPS up to 28 FPS all throughout the video. it was mainly at 24 FPS but it did drop several times. I have Time Warner and it was solidly at 4.93 Mbps until I started screwing with the bandwidth limiter. And then it dropped suddenly right about the end, just before the credits.

[really duh]

Are using windows/Exlorer and which version. I first tried to watch the video with Google Chrome and it didn't work at all. Windows Vista Home Premium with explorer ran it flawlessly for me I have 22 Mbps.

I thought it maxed at 24FPS(jumps to 25 max) I didn't *realize* it could make it to 28fps when the point was to show most studio's natural 24fps filming.

[condorstrike]

Where in the US do you live?, cause down in florida 8megs is like the minimum and i believe those with online x360 probably have good internet connections, and by the way that is the point of this whole article "Smooth Streaming" for those with crappy speeds, troll.

[JL]

Actually you're right there, I was wrong. The average American internet connection speed is 5mbps, not 4mbps. My bad. You getting 8mbps is not average. Hell I get 7-8mbps, that doesn't make it the average, dumbass. We're serious gamers, hence usually most of us are going to be above the average. Even still, that point is to get TRUE hi-def, you're going to need more like in the 40mbps range in order to obtain that with proper bitrates and no framerate drops and still get 1080p resolution. It's just not possible over here. What they're proposing here is a gimped version, not TRUE hi-def. Jesus christ people get a clue and quit getting your panties in a bunch. We just can't do that kind of stuff here in the states. Now if we were in Japan or such (where they average like 60mbps) then it'd be another story. But here in American we're the lowest common denominator when it comes to connection speed, and since that's MS target territory, they just can't pull it off. What they can pull off is what you see here: 1080p imagine with greatly reduced bitrate and unsteady frame rate. Much like Comcast provides with their streaming HD OnDemand. It looks good. Real good. Just not true hi-def like they would have you believe. It that sense, it's really nothing new or that much of an improvement. When I first heard this, they had me believe they were going to stream true hi-def 1080p video (along with 5.1--not TruHD sound either) and that struck me as impossible. Turns out, I was right. Get over it people. Here will this make you feel better: PSN Store can't do it either. It includes that compression as well, AND it buffers alot.

Jesus people get their feelings hurt over the littlest things. Facts at that (at least ones that go against what they want to believe). And still don't have anything to disprove anything I say (and no this video isn't proof, can even check the tools that come with the video). I miss the day when extreme xbox fanboys and trolls like Condor and Really Dug were more on the kick of "I bought my xbox to play games, not watch movies, like the ps3 is only good for." Go back to doing that argument. I'd much rather have to put up with than for idiots trying to dispute blatant facts and get suckered in by misconception (like all those people that got caught up in those "not really hd, but we'll claim them hd" tv's). I'm done.

[darkequitus]

True HD is determined by resolution and not by bitrate. Look at an trustworthy source to verify this.

darkequitus: PSN/XBL UK
CrimsonKlax: XBL USA

[SantistaUSA]

Dude you need to chill!!! This is very impressive, not even final yet!!! I first tried at work, where my internet connection do not even get to 2mbps, and it worked! I could tell that it was not a full HD, but the average "joe" wouldn't even notice a difference. I came home and show it to my girlfriend, and at home I have a 7mbps. I asked her does it look good? she says yes, then I said this is full HD, and she had no clue what i was talking about!!! The point is tons of people will be more than happy with that quality!!! Btw I work at a big retail store and there is TONS of people that have no clue about 720p/1080p.

[FragMnTagM]

Man you are so so right about the dumbasses and not knowing what 1080p, 720p, and so on it. Well, not dumbasses, but uninformed public. I used to work in electronics at a major retailer and VERY few people knew anything about TV's, computers, games, and electronics in general.

I had to go through like every feature of a TV with about 80-90% of the customers coming in to buy them.

[CWMR]

-I tried this out a while back and it worked great for me. I am looking forward to this service a lot. It is going to be excellent.-

[dirthurts]

Wow! Simply Wow!
I ran this on my 10mps internet, on both my desktop and my notebook at the same time. 1080p on the desk, 720 on the notebook. No problems. Fast, sharp, simply amazing!

[KingKionic]

Cant believe this is going work with television shows.

EDIT

Tv shows...

http://kotaku.com/5274608/z...

[Bladestar]

mmm.. people behold the power of silverlight!

Microsoft is being working on silverlight and other technologies that makes this possible...

no long ago... there were lots of haters that bashed Silverlight by saying that it would never be able to compete against flash... mm... I guess as always... lots of ignorant were wrong.

[KingKionic]

Well it`s interesting because you have to use silver light for netflix on pc...hmmm...

[Bladestar]

True... just keep in mind that Netflix currently uses silverlight version 1.1....

This new streaming technology is based on silverlight 3 which supports AAC audio decoding as well as hardware-accelerated H.264 video decoding. The native multimedia pipeline is also programmatically exposed, so that other formats can also be supported by third-parties using managed code decoders.

Take a look at the speed in this page:

http://silverlight.live.com...

but this is not just specific to silverlight, netflix but also something that Microsoft is being calling smooth streaming which they are also adding to IIS and the browsers:

http://on10.net/blogs/benwa...

Smooth Streaming streams smoothly

The core user experience we’re shooting for is quick starting, fast scrubbing, uninterrupted playback of content as good as the local machine can play at the moment. We switch between bitrates and resolutions basic on available CPU speed, network speed, and window size without any “buffering” messages as long as there’s sufficient bandwidth to deliver the lowest bitrate.
Smooth Streaming is standards based

Smooth Streaming uses the http protocol and the MPEG-4 file format (in its “fragmented” flavor). We’re initially using VC-1 (SMPTE standard) and WMA 10 Pro audio, and will support H.264 and AAC-LC support once Silverlight 3 ships with those codecs. The manifests use XML and SMIL.

Microsoft was already using this technology else where...

[KingKionic]

Bladestar.

thx for being informative.

:)

[really duh]

Thats why he only has 2 bubbles. They come after him because of this.

[PirateThom]

Running this through firefox.

I'm guessing this is a US server though, so I'd have to try again when it reaches Europe, but:

http://i40.tinypic.com/j7dv...

[KingKionic]

Hopefully it gets better for you....

[GiantEnemyCrab]

dunno why you got disagrees. This is most definately on a US server and it will effect performance for anyone outside. I also hope this is expanded so EU/UK/AUS/CAN all get this service with equal performance.

[cmacdonald]

My internal laptop bandwidth measuring software does not match what the screen was showing. It started okay but got slower and fuzzy.

[San Frandisco]

saw it,thats not "true" 1080p streaming to me HOWEVER,the movie is badass tho.. really funny with really kool music too.

[ASSASSYN 36o]

Now where are those nuts that complained I waisted money on my two HDTV's?

[kaveti6616]

I don't know guys. I clicked on the link and then I was playing the vid and it kept stopping every couple seconds to buffer. My internet connection may not be up to par with what is required, tho, and i'm using the wireless, so maybe my 360 (connected through ethernet) will be successful

[LinuxGuru]

It's most likely your wireless, I'd say.

[LinuxGuru]

Interesting tech! Looks pretty sweet.

It's obvious that serious upscaling is going on if you don't have sufficient bandwidth for on-demand streaming of full 1080p, but the upscaling really doesn't look that bad, and the lack of a need for a buffer or buffering period is really neat.

I SHOULD be streaming at about twice what it shows there...but even at that speed it didn't look bad at all, and no buffering:

http://img194.imageshack.us...

[KingKionic]

Nice pic man.

:)

[TheTruth89]

hahaha
//
Microsoft promises a full 1080p video stream with 5.1 surround sound. If those conditions change for the worse, the stream dynamically switches to a lower quality, lower bandwidth version without skipping a beat.
//

THIS phrase mean that the streaming is NOT 1080P, because absolutely ANY internet connection (at least in europe) CAN'T Handle 1080p in streaming... so the video will be downgraded to a low NON 1080P quality.

Even my Fiber Optic (avarage 2MB/s download speed) CAN'T handle NATIVE 1080p in streaming.

Again... SHAME on Microsh1t for being the most FAKE company in the world.

Edit:
And the windows media test is FAKE also... try to set it to FullScreen... its look a GARBAGE... PLUS WHERE THE 5.1 AUDIO?

[KingKionic]

Sorry to hear that didnt work. But did for me.

You are right about it not working with people who have a slow connection.

optimum,comcast,roadrunner are good providers to keep your connection above 5 meg.

like optimum for example.

http://www.optimum.com/onli...

[TheTruth89]

the test provided with source link WORK for me also.. BUT ITS FAKE, BECAUSE ITS NOT 1080P AND ITS NOT 5.1 AUDIO...

[KingKionic]

You sure...could be your connection...

[yorkie]

If it delivers a good quality picture with no pausing and stuttering then it really would be a good service indeed. The only drawback at the moment is users broadband speeds and monthly download limits, these are going to have to increase substantially to take full advantage of this. Also whats the cost going to be, if it's cheaper to rent a couple of Blu-Rays every month then will it really take off ? Good tech though non the less.

Edit
Just tried the service and found it pausing about every 4 secs, my broadband speed is averaging about 3meg and I'm on a pretty decent spec PC so a little bit of work to do yet I suspect. What is the performance going to be like when there is a heavy load on the servers is this going to hamper quality.

[kaveti6616]

I had the same problem. It kept freezing up on me, but after a couple minutes it ran smooth the whole way through, so I blame my internet. On a side note, it will probably be cheaper to watch it using this service than to use blockbuster or whatever to rent a blu ray movie.

[Meus Renaissance]

It doesn't load for me. I get an error message

[kewlkat007]

I wonder if it's the same Quality...The average user will not bother to fuss much with true 1080p....etc Maybe hardcore Video peeps will care.

If you think it looks great you will enjoy. As infrastructure/services get better so will feeds.

I was doing 4930kbps, 24fps and never dipped below 2759kbps.

[MriownBOTH]

down
down
down goes
psn
down
down
down.....dont worry sony will play catch up like always might take 2 years.

[LinuxGuru]

No need to be a jackass.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

You don't think PSN couldn't just implement a similar thing? Come on, this has nothing to do with PSN and for the most part everyone is on good behavior and enjoying this tech. Hopefully both services benefit from it.

[MriownBOTH]

ooo and this right here won E3.....

this in my book from Microsoft blew Sony and Nintendo out of the water.......

I am glad Live is better....therefor i am gladly willing to spend $40 a year for live big woop.....

[KingKionic]

Nice.

[MriownBOTH]

how did you know i liked monkeys. awesome man.

thanks

bubble for you :D

[siyrobbo]

this would be amazing as an IPTV content delivery system. wonder if its what they are using for the SKY uk rollout. would be good to get good quality freeview and on demand iplayer / 4od content like this

[Jazz4108]

man this really works, and the picture looks fantastic. I am impressed indeed.

[green]

I am using wireless and it worked perfectly for me.Though my speeds are not up to 5mb/s, it maintained a steady rate of 2.0mbs and increased momentarily to the bit rate above that.Really impressed.

[maverick1191]

i think its to early for this stuff to be ready people have a average of 2-5mb connections which wont be good enough the stream will be low quality not 100p and will ahve to buffer quite abit it will only benefit the people that are getting more than 10mb connections i think this is all being abit early imo wait till another 2 or 3 years than release it

[I-SEE-YOU]

Buy real HD movies on BLu-Ray then do with 2nd best streaming of a film I could own.

Just another stupid idea of Microsoft's packet in a 'look at me' fashion of advertising. I lost respect for these guys why my £400+ 360 broke 6 times with all separate problems. I have wasted lots of time and money with these jokers, I do not wish to even take one look at yet another gimmick.

I will stick with the better option.

[ZILLA]

well this is a sure fire way to burn up a 360.you xbots are like cattle and m$ is the rancher taking you to the slauter.PLAY B3YOND waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay B3YOND!!

[Sprudling]

5 Mbit for 1080p with 5.1 audio? That's the stupidest thing I've ever read. Sure, it might be 1080p, but what's the point if it's compressed to hell?

That demonstration video there was perfect for compression. It was CGI, slightly blurred and just a small part of the picture had any movement. The background was mostly still cause the camera didn't even pan. It wouldn't have worked for an action movie, you can be sure of that.

MS has not come up with a magic compression technique, but they have once again convinced alot of people with this great looking facade. Half the world's population have below average IQ after all.

[airforcex]

Does anyone know if 1080p will work with the older 360s without HDMI? I though 1080p movies via component are not authorized.

[mephixto]

If you compress a 1080p video for a 4-5mpbs connection, the quality will be the same as a streched 720p video to fit a 1080p screen. and wuBAM!!! There it is, 1080p!!!

[rickyjb23]

after seing how fast this thing is with a 7.3 mbps stream i am starting to think onlive will work.

[DarthChris]

isnt 5mb dvd standard?

[jazy]

Here in Canada (and to a certain degree in the US i am sure)...we r capped at a rate of 95 gigs max by our ISP. If we download 1080p movies with the same fidelity as blu ray movies (50 Gigs before extra charges), then i will be able to download only 2 movies before i reach my cap!!!!!

After that .... it will cost me 1.5 dollar per GIG ....so for every movie i download, depending on its size in Gigs, it will cost me the cost of the movie plus the cost of using bandwidth!!!!

Its like renting a movie and then paying $1.5 to see 20 minutes (approximately) after watching just 2 movies!!!!!!!!!

I am pretty sure the US is also capping bandwidth nowaday....its a standard practice by ISP's to limit internet usage as the next TV....

just before u buy into this stuff........find out from your ISP if you are capped!!!!

[akaFullMetal]

i tried the silver thing, but because my internet speed is not the greatest it had a pretty bad picture. After awhile the picture got grainy or pixeled like.

[siyrobbo]

imagine it using the same technology as this

http://www.engadget.com/200...

that would be insane

[MGOelite]

im on silverlight now and its freezing every 2 seconds (for about half a second but still very noticable) and ive got a 6.98mb download speed currently (about 880kbps)

[360usetobegood]

Frigin idiots. What happened to the 360 being just a games console and bashing sony for including movies? More stupid idiotic 36-0 hypocrites. Dont listen to them they have no flippin idea wtf they are talking about.

Have fun

[Mr Face Creamer]

I like cheeseburgers too.

[Gue1]

This is very cool but don't expect it to surpass the quality of blu-ray. At least for now. Maybe in 5, 6 years...

[Mr Face Creamer]

Sure thing droid, whatever makes you happy in PSLand.

[MGOelite]

uber lulz if you think this will look better than blu ray

[el zorro]

It won't look as good as Blu-ray, but it doesn't need to look as good as Blu-ray to be useful. When some people say they can't tell much of a difference between DVD and Blu-ray (not me, mind you) I think many people will be perfectly happy with this.

Even us videophiles will enjoy this. The convenience makes up for its somewhat technically inferior image quality. Hell, I use the Netflix service as it is and this looks far better than that.

[azmanmanz]

oh! bots reaaly stupid

[Zermeno_90]

I tried it and mine looks like youtube quality.
Of course this for people with connection speed.

[MriownBOTH]

there is always something coming that's bigger and better....just the way technology works in general.

[JokesOnYou]

Dammm....you really got to appreciate micro for continuing to push the services on 360. Very cool tech. The naysayers said digital distribution won't be possible for 3-4 years, yet here we are watching a high quality a 1080p vid instantly and it looks great. I don't think anybody thinks this will replace BD or whatever overnight, hell DvD is still king and some cavemen still watch vhs, but this is great and I expect it to grow. Wow, good work micro, good work.

JOY

[Sprudling]

You fail to realize how compression-friendly that particular demonstration-video was. It was CGI, slightly blurred and just a small part of the picture had any movement. The background was mostly still cause the camera didn't even pan. It wouldn't have worked for an action movie, you can be sure of that. There is nothing groundbreaking about this technology.