Project Natal - Controller(less) Issues

Ecks of The Gaming Dungeon takes a look at Project Natal, and the unwarranted optimism gamers have for the device

[Milky]

I agree with this article completely. There are obvious flaws that people aren't seeing.

[Defectiv3_Detectiv3]

But Sony was right, what they said during their Motion Tech demonstration. You need something tangible. You need some kind of feedback. Whether if be a joystick or a pressure sensitive button.

W/O some form of controller, you aren't playing the game, the game is playing you.

[D4RkNIKON]

false.. They said that you move your foot forward and backward to gas and brake, but he said it is either full throttle or dead stop. The turbo or boost is used by faking a gear shift. The said that it had it's flaws but burnout was not created for these controls. They would have to have some sort of controller to make most games work. Also, why would you want to play with air so to speak instead of an actual GT Steering Wheel? Who argues that this will be more or equal accuracy to a controller or steering wheel?

[Rainstorm81]

Natal creators at MS just had an interview saying they would have games using Natal and a controller.

"Then you'll have some games that are essentially a hybrid - games that work both with the controller and with Natal. Why is that interesting? Think about a first-person shooter where I'm using the controller but I'm doing facial tracking by just moving around and looking round corners.

Or you could have a hardcore gamer like me playing a game with a controller, while a non-hardcore person sitting next to me enjoys the experience by playing with Natal."
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

Fanboys are like Monkeys just throwin monkey shyt at each other.

I support PS3 for my reasons but use your brain for some of these articles.

[derseb]

I agree this article nails it down. This will never work with any games that require precision (real computergames).

There is a reason Sony uses the glowing ball. I believe them when they say their system recognizes it and can lock it's position accurately. It is easily distinguishable from the background and looks the same from all angles... it's a glowing round ball!!

However a hand or a body always looks different, there is no way they can compensate that with precision...

[Why dis]

The haters will make selective observations about this tech and will write articles downplaying it they've been doing that ever since it was shown. I'm getting sick of all these articles trying to downplay all of MSFT's showings just because Sony lost E3. I see a waggle stick thats more advanced that anything shown to come with Natal.

[Ju]

You mean, something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watc... ? Won't work, because not everybody has a camera.

Heck, we can't even get studios to support mouse and keyboard even though this is supported by the (PS3) firmware and KB are cheap and available.

[JokesOnYou]

yeah, so we should all join the sony loyalists and scream its "Impossible", despite many sites with hands on saying it works well with what they played at this *early stage. lmfao=

JOY

[kevoncox]

That was always my repsonse to questions abot a controller. Why can't you use Natal and the controller.

Picture you are playing ME and you walk into a room with a chracter your need to talk to. Natal kicks into a Milo situation where you have to speak to this villian. On screen will have you typical 3 statments of what you must say but the kick is because we are all different. The villians response will depend on not only which choice you read but also how you read it.

Natal can be used to put your face in the game. Natal can be used to greet you when yo start the game. What would be better than saying "ENGAGE" like Picard to go to a planet. " Make it so #1"

[Blaze929]

Microsoft said that there will be games that use Natal, use Natal and a standard 360 controller, or just a controller alone.

Problem solved.

[Sharingan_no_Kakashi]

Eye toy failed. So will Natal. The guys behind Eye Toy realized that somethings you just need a controller for. Thats why they made the motion controller to go in conjunction with the psEye. Microsoft took the credit from Sony for being the first to "destroy the barrier of controllers". That's fine. Just be sure to take the failure that comes with it.

[Why dis]

Its legit to you because you are a PS3 fanboy and fear it will revolution gameing making MSFT an unstoppable force. What was shown was just a small window of the tech lol

[Sharingan_no_Kakashi]

Yea sure of course it will. With that imagination trailer and that Milo game that's "designed with Herbert the P3rv3rt in mind"

[Why o why]

dude, you really should get that chip off your shoulder man and remember the slogan that made your avatar famous. The tech is allowed to NOT be perfect. People are allowed to have opinions that may criticize aspects. Not all of these are raised by sony affiliates. Some of the issues raised are totally logical. In the end these issues may be irrelevant when we are playing the games tailored for it but as of now from what we have/havent seen there are indeed issues for GAMING, chill out. Go scream at the writer furthermore do you disagree with everything the guy writes or are your defensive comments involuntary...jeese.

Personally i can see some issues but only in terms of the limitations by not having anything tangible/with buttons. I even believe MS will announce a remote to work in conjunction with this new tech. We are hardcore gamers here on n4g who love nothing more than precision and instant results. If i was sitting there with an imaginary steering wheel with my feet c0cked at a 45% to 22% angle for long periods ill soon develop rsi and overdeveloped delts.....*Im trying to be light hearted here* When it gets released the games will probably be tailored just like the ones for the eye toy/pseye. Im not expecting precision gaming from this tech as soon as its launched. Personally im excited to see what they can pull off as anything beats the wii for me

Oh and that 'unwarranted optimism' is just called being hyped/excited. You say that to ps3 fans every time they get wet over a new exclusive. You cant have it both ways either. Personally i feel theres nothing wrong with being excited about the hobby you like/love/are obsessed with.

[really duh]

eyetoy can't be compared to Natal nor should it. All the pessimistic criticism comes from people knowing Natal puts Microsoft ahead of the game in motion and possibly in the market later on.

[Ju]

Natal might be a great piece of technology (it certainly is), so is MS's surface, ... and so was Betamax.

BTW: I guarantee Natal is more expensive then a BD and a HDD combined. So, you'd trade a BD-HDD-less game for a motion sensor. Marketing vs. Consumer demand. We'll see how that ends.

[Sharingan_no_Kakashi]

They both have the same premise. Stand in front of a camera and interact with things on the screen. Natal is inaccurate and lame. I could barely watch them try to pass off that paint "game" with Natal's accuracy. And i will never.... NEVER, sit on a couch and hold my arms out pretending I'm holding a steering wheel. When history repeats itself, MS will learn.

Edit: No the criticism comes from gamers who know better. I can certainly understand though. When i first saw Natal i was interested. But after thinking about it some more I realized that its just not practical. There are only a hand full of games that Natal could use. Its just simply not practical.

[really duh]

I can imagine its not just the PS3 fanboys with the pessimistic criticism but Wii fanboys too. Its funny the people that had hands on experience feel differently only PS3 fanboys on the blogs, pro Sony media, Wii fanboys and anti Microsoft folks find ways to make it seem useless.

[Carl1412]

Game that use controller + natal? Didn't MS say controllers were scary add they didn't want to use them?

[ChozenWoan]

We are not saying it's useless... just very inaccurate to be used for all forms of gaming. Thus a truly controller free system is impossible, which is exactly the opposite of what MS is marketing. To pair Natal with current controllers or a new remote system would mean that Natal is not a final solution as touted, but rather a simple enhancement to current gaming controls (which is a good thing).

However, I do find it interesting that the same people who will nick pick a multi-platform game over AA and "jaggies" don't see a problem with Natal's lack of 1:1 accuracy in all three dimensions. Yes, the direction MS is taking the cam tracking tech is impressive, but it's still limited in what it can do gaming wise. That is why I like the PSLightstick(*) as a control system, plus it can be easily intergrated into upcoming games (maybe even existing with a proper patch/firmware update).

(*)
I like the name PSLightstick as it is a stick that uses light to aid in tracking. Plus PSLightsaber would likely get Sony sued.

[Kakkoii]

You know.. Because it would be so hard for Microsoft to bundle a stick with a bright ball on it, right?

Puhlease people. Your nit picking at problem that doesn't exist.

Want feedback for a racing game? Bundle a little steering wheel shaped piece of plastic like they did for Mario Kart. It's not hard.

With Natal all the tech is in place, and any controllers can easily be created for use with it. It's hardly a big deal at all. Microsoft will most likely come out with peripherals that coincide with Natal. Such as a gun you can use that Natal will track, so in 3rd person view, you and the gun move accordingly on screen, it would bring FPS to a whole nother level.

[gaffyh]

This guy basically said what any rational mind would think. Natal has potential, but if it's for casual gamers, they aren't going to buy a new console + Natal which will cost $100-200 apparently. If it's for hardcore gamers, unless it get's hardcore games you will not want to play it.

I'm not going to completely right it off, but most likely I won't be buying this peripheral.

Edit: Apparently that Molyneux thing was controlled using a controller behind the scenes. GiantBomb E3 Day Three podcast, ~29 mins in.

[xwabbit]

what r u talking about! natal is the future right 360 fanboys!

[SaberEdge]

This blog article showed a lot of naivete on the part of the writer.

So much of his argument made no sense. It won't be able to work with past released games and that makes it fail? Did anyone with a brain think that a new piece of technology as radical as this one would be able to work with previously released games? Of course it won't, the games have to be specifically designed to work with all the interface possibilities that Natal will provide. Duh.

The other "issue" he sees is that it won't work with every kind of game. But that's not the point. The point is, the Natal technology hugely expands the options available to game developers in terms of how they design their games to be controlled and interacted with. Some games will use pure motion controls--both casual and hardcore--while other games will use a combination of a traditional controller with various degrees of motion tracking, voice and facial recognition. The different combinations are virtually limitless. As other people pointed out, Microsoft could also easily add a physical wand if they saw the need.

[falcon]

I totally agree with the article. I just want to seat on my couch and be comfortable, specially after a stressful day.

ps: I just got my first rrod and no more warranty, since it's a launch 360. so, I guess I wont be playing natal anyway and I don't really care.

[leyego]

@Why dis & @JokesOnYou & @really duh & @every xbot fanboy defending natal

now u guys claim that using a controller along with natal will work?
when ms announced this at E3 on monday u guys where all about the whole no controller BS and that natal was the best thing ever.

we proved u wrong, we told u guys u need a controller. now ur agreeing with us? what happend to the whole natal doesn't need a controller uve been spitting out all week?

natal + controller = ps3 eyetoy + ps3 wands - voice and face recognition software. by that logic natal is old tech, and ur all hypocrites. what are u scared about? don't u guys no the weakest dog barks louder.

natal will fall flat on its face like the eyetoy, its the same thing except u guys are hyping it like its the end all of motion controllers.

games are for peace not for war, and this console wars is becoming more like a fight between reglions.

[SaberEdge]

No, people are merely pointing out that there is nothing that precludes Microsoft from implementing a wand IF it were useful. Doesn't mean that I agree that it is useful. I don't know yet. All I know is that Natal has a ton of potential that has excited a lot of developers and gamers alike.

Edit: It is not just like the Eye Toy and to claim that it is reveals an obvious bias, making the rest of your comment kind of suspect.

[JokesOnYou]

First off, don't speculate on my mood, nothing I said was even close to "flipping out" or however your trying to charachterize my comments, to negate the reality of what I said. I don't question the ability of anyone to criticize. Its probably what I hate the most about sony folks, they are so sensitive to legit concerns, but theres a difference between saying "hey that didn't look good as I thought it would" while providing a reasonable explaination why you feel that way, or saying you dont like this or that which makes it a simple opinion but he seemed very closed minded to the whole concept from begining to end, when basicly he has very little to go on at this point, with just a little imagination you could, take his "concerns" and MAKE IT WORK. For instance(in reference to his COD *concerns):

The game begins with the camera mapping your location/distance while you do nothing more than sit in a set position on your couch=(All of this is performed by the ingame character while SITTING comfortably on your couch>>>>Turorial Begins: Game requires you to pick up a virtual weapon shown on screen>>>>You reach out grab it and hold it with your hands down relaxed comfortably with your forearms on your lap, holding a imaginary weapon same as you would a controller, it recognises you hand position and the weapon and aiming point for your weapon is now all you see on screen just as you would in any FPS=Wherever you fingers/hands point is where your WEAPON IS AIMED/FIRED.////Raise both feet naturally up and down twice, then stop=Ingame charachter WALKS FORWARD instantly and keeps doing so even without you still moving your feet>>>>Lightly Stomp left foot=Ingame charachter STOPS WALKING>>>>Raise both feet naturally up at and down at a faster pace, then stop=Ingame charachter RUNS forward instantly and keeps doing so even without you still moving your feet>>>>Lightly Stomp left foot=Ingame charachter STOPS RUNNING.//// While walking or running: Leaning slighty left or right controls the direction in which you move>>>>Turning your torso quickly=Ingame character FACING/TURNING AROUND>>>>Head movement to left or right, up or down=Ingame character LOOKS IN ANY DIRECTION.////Lift both feet off the floor=Ingame charachter JUMPS>>>>Combined with running=Ingame charachter LEAPS FORWARD(over obstacles)>>>>Lean forward=CROUCH/DUCK>>&am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;am p;gt ;>Reach behind your back=CHANGE WEAPONS>>>>Swing forearms forward=MELEE ATTACK.

BAMM! FPS controls with Natal. I could keep going but as you can see with just a little imagination these controls are very much possible, sure it takes a little more effort on the gamers part, rather than pushing buttons but by nature "motion controls" require you to move your body,(ask sony) but it doesn't have to be nearly as an exhaustive experience as he implies, the alternative is just sticking with standard controllers, thats up to you= All of this could be done by the making subtle movements sitting right on the couch, NOT flailing all around crazy as we see with many wii games....as I describe Natal will recognize you begin to move your feet and instantly walk but its not like you need to do it constantly while walking. Finally once Natal's full body detection is optimized and done correctly with any game, there's still the easy part of also having option of just using a standard 360 controller, for those rough work days. lol

However this blog was probably written by an n4g member which is why he sounds like he already has his mind made up that it won't work:

"You certainly can’t play a game of Call of Duty like this."

"Natal is a neat little piece of technology, I just want to bring people down to Earth on the topic"

-Why because a guy who's never used it says it wont work? Natal has some sophisticated tech like monitoring complex algorithms to figure out human motion and a 3D space mapping system, voice/face recognition and works in very low light etc....its not a 2D Eyetoy.

JOY

[Kakkoii]

@JokesOnYou: I agree, the people bashing it seem to have no idea of how the system truly works. They just saw the previews and dismissed the tech because it's Microsoft/Xbox.

When one looks at the actual technology of this system, it TRULY IS the next step in gaming. This doesn't mean controllers have to be phased out though. This system can easily and will easily work along with remotes. To merely enhance many games. You'll be able to have game characters who actually look towards YOU when you walk by, not just look out from the screen. You'll be able to scan custom content into games, even yourself into the game. There's just so many possibilities this system could be used for.

Here's what makes it different from an Eye-Toy, and these are facts, you can look up the tech specs yourself:

1.) Natal has 2 cameras, not 1.

2.) One Camera is used for viewing things in color, and is a higher resolution camera than the eye-toy.

3.) The other camera isn't a color camera, it's a depth sensor. The depth sensor consists of an infrared projector combined with a monochrome CMOS sensor, and allows the Project Natal sensor to see in 3D under any lighting conditions.

4.) It has it's own proprietary CPU, so it doesn't make the 360 struggle with a game and the system at the same time. This CPU is built for the function that Natal does, it's not a basic mainstream CPU. It's software and architecture is made just for these types of processes, which makes it run a lot faster than if it were to use the 360's processor.

5.) It has it's own microphone array that enables the 360 to conduct acoustic source localization, voice recognition and ambient noise suppression, allowing for things such as headset-free party chat over Xbox Live and giving commands in games and other things.

Thus it's eons ahead of the eye-toy. And opens up a world of new game play options and enhancements. This really is something that has the ability to enhance our gaming future. It's another step closer to virtual reality.

[gaffyh]

When you give into the MS hype you will be disappointed, loko how much they hyped GTA4 and it was sh*t.

@above - If it really does have all that, it will be costing $200, I mean come on they had a specific processor created for it? I know it wouldn't have been possible to use the 360's processing power to do this AND play games but that sounds damn expensive.

Also I'm pretty sure the PlayStation Eye can detect depth, a bit more simply but it works just watch the demo with their motion controller. PSEye also has an array Mic on top of it. You just have to watch that Eyepet trailer and you'll see that it already has depth sensing and motion tracking.

The only difference is going to be price, MS' is going to be hella expensive, new hardware, proprietary processor, TWO cameras + Array mic + MS' usual ripping people off attitude. I can easily see both of these ideas going down the HD-DVD route.

[joevfx]

so you would spend over $100 for this thng so it can track your head movment for a FPS? come on, this thing was gears specifically to compeit with the Wii in teh casual gamer market and thats all.

[DaCandyman]

I'd like to see you try that while pulling an all-nighter playing Call of Duty. How long will you last. I'm imagining a beer gut dude with some serious beefy buffed Quads.

[fenix1300]

pslightstick (I also like the name) was able to fire a bow and arrow so..... there goes your depth sensor. the PSLS (playstation light stick) has 1:1 accuracy which is amazing in its self. a simple command such as "start/stop listening" can be used to switch between in-game chat and commands. all of this is done with the PSE.... whats so advanced about Natal? oh it has it own processor!!!! thats going to make all the difference!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS: until VR I'm sittin my ass on the chair and picking up the controller. my room is small enough, I wouldn't have room for motion control from either from MS or Sony.

Edit: they should also add a taser so every time you get shot, the taser shocks you!!!!!! wouldn't that be fun?!?!?

[Arnon]

"Alex Kipman: Absolutely. We see there being three types of game. We love the [existing] controller, it's not going anywhere and there will continue to be games that are specifically made to only work with a controller. We'll have games that are specifically designed to work only with Natal - not just arcadey games, but real, hardcore, triple-A titles.

Then you'll have some games that are essentially a hybrid - games that work both with the controller and with Natal. Why is that interesting? Think about a first-person shooter where I'm using the controller but I'm doing facial tracking by just moving around and looking round corners.

Or you could have a hardcore gamer like me playing a game with a controller, while a non-hardcore person sitting next to me enjoys the experience by playing with Natal. I could be having my Halo experience with the controller and the friend next to me, who's not a hardcore gamer, could be throwing grenades or driving the Warthog or doing any number of things with Natal.

We can track up to four players in the same way we track controllers. Each individual player will be able to choose - do I want to bind with a controller, or do I want to bind with my body, or do I want to bind with both?"

Ahahahaha... You all know this is going to have mass success in all fronts of gaming. It's going to be worth every penny, and will put you into the game like never before. I'm keeping all of your comments to laugh at.

[JokesOnYou]

Are you serious bro? You got to visualize a mental picture of what I'm talking about, these are "subtle movements" and gestures all done comfortably sitting on your couch, Im not talking about flailing your arms all about constantly, like I said move your feet quickly up and down the guy starts to run, you have stoped but your character keeps running until you tap the floor with your left foot, or say the melee attack for example its not like you'll have to throw your forearm with some kind of UFC type force, no you're just sitting there and Natal's body tracking responds to you flinching out your forearm. Now I'm not claiming this thing is going to track if my damm eyelash moves but the large extremities of your body can definitely be tracked for subtle movements and gestures. Fortunately the devs are alot more open-minded about what possible than the actual gamers or we'd probably still be stuck with one button controllers.

JOY

[Kakkoii]

@gaffyh: Creating a processor that's setup for just doing certain tasks is cheap actually. Because the architecture isn't complicated at all. And all the fabrication companies really care about is the size of the chip.

Lol, The eye-toy doesn't track depth. It's a freaking digital camera, just like the one in a webcam. The software it uses tries to figure out the depth of things by analyzing the images it takes. But this is extremely limited in functionality. Where as the Natal system actually has a SENSOR that sees DEPTH by bouncing infrared light off of everything in the room. Creating an actual 3D map of what it's seeing. Not just a guess based on a color image.

Also, wrong. The eye-toy doesn't have a microphone array. It has a single microphone.

Your lack of tech knowledge and disdain for Microsoft is blinding your judgment. This is a far more advanced system and is capable of much more than a simple webcam could ever do.

Eyetoy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Natal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[fenix1300]

your ignorance is astounding. calling a system that gives one to one tracking, something Natal ca not achieve even with it's own processor, a simple web cam... I don't have words for how stupid you are. the PSE was able to determine the tension on the string based on different amounts you pull back while still getting 1:1. still waiting for Natal to show something like that. and you have the nerve to call someone else ignorant of technology?!?! Natal is a good system, however it is going to require an add on that will cost more than 100 (with the wireless adapter at 100, it would be ignorant to assume anything else.)and your not getting anything new. vice recognition is software based not hardware so a simple firmware update and you have voice recognition. if everything that is being achieved by Natal is being done by the PSE and on top of that real 1:1 tracking I ask you what the Hell is so advanced about Natal, and why weren't they firing bows and arrows?

[All-3]

You - along with the person that wrote the article, obviously haven't read much on project natal then.

--> Secondly, how many gamers, specifically ones that don’t play Dance Dance Revolution, are eager to stop playing Call of Duty 4 and start dancing around the living room

You don't have to "dance around the living room"

1) Game developers can utilize any combination of 48 body points as well as in combination with the standard 360 controller.

--> Let’s look at this rationally. These people aren’t gamers, they’re probably not going to ever be as serious as you or me. They have a Wii, and as far as they’re concerned, they won’t need anything else. Not to mention they’d have to buy both an Xbox 360, and Natal in order to get that experience. That’s certainly going to cost more than a Wii will. The Wii has already established itself among the “Casual” gaming market, it isn’t going to be stolen away any time soon. It could happen given the right publicity, but I wouldn’t count on it.

2) Sony would suffer from the same issues then - yes? Besides, how does this articler know just who would and who won't buy a 360 and Natal, or even a PS3 and the EyeToy and a motion controller/s? It's rather obvious that both the 360 and the PS3 already offer game experiences that the Wii just can't provide.

--> My next problem with it is the fact that all of our old games won’t be playable on it.

3) Sony's solution suffers more than the 360 in this department. Sony haven't stated that their motion control will be backwards compatible, while Microsoft has. It depends on the game developers. Burnout was used as an example of how Natal can be used on previously released games. Obviously - nobody is expecting 100% backwards compatibility support. (Just look at standard backwards compatibility with the 360 and PS3)

--> I’ll use the example of Call of Duty 4 for instance. You can shoot by pretending to fire a gun. Sure. You can aim by moving your imaginary gun around. Ok, fine. Now tell me, how do I move forward? I certainly can’t walk toward the TV screen for more than 2-4 steps, I’d run out of room. The only solution I’ve received to this problem would be march in place. Marching in place works assuming games only required you to move up, but what would you do in a game that requires you to turn or back up?

4) Why is standing and marching in place the 'only solution' ... Hmmm? Natal can track 48 different body positions, both separately and in combinations. It all depends on how the game developers programm the Natal interfacing with their games, just like they do with standard controller button layouts for their game functions.

4a) Natal can also be used along with the standard controller. In co-op or multiplayer game scenarios, players don't all have to use Natal features either. One could use standard control interfacing, while another could use Natal features alone, while yet another could use a combination of both Natal and standard control inferfacing.

--> It’s entirely possible Natal can differentiate between the body motions of walking forward while marching, and walking backward while marching, however I find that very unlikely.

5) Wrong. Natal can detect backwards and forward motions.

http://www.engadget.com/200...

5a) QUOTE: As soon as we stepped into line in front of the box, the avatar immediately took on our stance and movements. And we mean really took them on -- little gestures with our arms, the posture we had, front and back movements -- it tracked with complete accuracy. We did notice a bit of stutter during some finer movements, but overall the effect was impressive (and more than a little eerie).

--> This brings up another question to mind, how would I go about controlling the camera in a game?

6) It's up to the game developers to determine how in-game actions are assigned, but an obvious one would be head tracking.

--> You certainly can’t play a game of Call of Duty like this. Not only would it be very difficult, but you’d be completely exhausted before you even shot anybody.

7) Nobody knows how games like Call of Duty will be mapped out to work with Natal, but one can't dismiss the technology when one doesn't even understand all the possibilities yet, can one? At least not without sounding like an idiot. Cough - articler - Cough.

--> Project Natal isn’t for gamers who play shooters, RPG’s, or action adventure. It’s for gamers who want to play Dating Simulators and Mini-games. The casual market you might say. Of course there are people who will say “Microsoft will find a way to make it work.” I don’t think so, Microsoft has enough problems making operating systems and the Xbox 360 hardware work. You know what the solution is? A handheld analog stick. That kind of opposes the mantra of having no controller doesn’t it?

7a) How does this uninformed articler suddenly become the expert on what games will and won't work with Natal? Anyone that has read various articles delving into how Natal works can understand the potential.

--> However, I certainly don’t see the logic in shelling out the assumed $100 to buy a system that only works with games that are designed to work for it.

8) Previously released games can work with Natal. It all depends if game developers are willing to patch their games to utilize motion sensing.

--> I still can’t play Call of Duty 4 with this method. I can’t play Devil May Cry which requires a lot of rapid turning. If I’m going to exclusively playing Racing games, I can see the appeal, but most of the popular games on the 360 require a lot of rapid movement. I don’t understand why gamers of that caliber are praising this to be a revolution.

8a) Again, the articler keeps repeating as fact - something that isn't a fact. Natal isn't going to be used only for racing or casual games. It's a far more versatile interface than that.

--> Natal is a great idea, but it’s just not for home console gaming.

9) We'll see won't we... regardless of what people like the articler think, the fact is - Natal is coming, and it's coming to home console gaming.

--> Natal could be very useful in combination with a controller however.

10) Microsoft have stated that it can be used alone or in combination with the standard controller... so there's no guess work involved. It's possible.

From engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/200...

The box uses two sensors for input: a video camera, and an infrared camera (that light you see in the press photo is either power, or some part of the IR setup). The infrared data is used to gauge depth and the video camera movement, but it's the software Microsoft has developed which is really doing the magic. We were shown an example of the raw output of the system, which melds the two sources and then breaks them down into a wireframe of objects, a heatmap (for depth), and a point-map (which is akin to one of those hand imprint needle toys). The software merges all of this together to create a picture of movement in the room, allowing for some pretty crazy detail of what is going on. We watched a chair being dragged into the middle of the playing field, and the software was able to continue to track the human movement, as well as that person sitting down -- it didn't break a sweat. The accuracy is far better than you would imagine it could be; it's very impressive stuff.

Obviously, Microsoft is still working out kinks and perfecting this thing, but what we saw at our demo (and super-secret demo) was mighty convincing. The demo that Sony showed of its new motion controller was interesting, but the fact that Natal is forgoing physical controls of any kind sets your mind reeling. For the other two competitors in this space, Natal could make a very, very strong rival. Ultimately it's up to developers to find truly compelling ways of using this stuff -- though they'd be fools to waste an opportunity like this.

[Kakkoii]

@fenix1300: Lol... just... lol.

I can call it a simple webcam, because that's what it is! Before opening your mouth, do some research first. The eyetoy is a basic digital camera. There's nothing special about it's sensor. It's all software that interprets the images that are coming in. It does it's best to judge what's happening.

The reason natal is better, is because of the depth sensor! Which you seemed to have ignored in your post. 3DV had been designing the technology for that sensor for over a decade. Since it's able to actually see the 3D shape of what's in front of it, Natal can know exactly what's happening, not guess based on images from a video like the Eyetoy does.

Natal uses a higher resolution sensor in it's video camera than the eyetoy also. This is pretty much just because of how old the eyetoy is now. Higher resolution sensors are cheaper.

Now when it comes to voice recognition and whatnot, the microphone array in Natal allows for more detailed listening to different sounds in the room, instead of jumbling it all into 1 stream. This enhances voice recognition capabilities, especially when there is background noise.

So that is why it needs it's own processor. It's a lot of data to crunch. The software for it is merely still in development stages. Like OMG, the system isn't 1:1 responsive on the first ever showing of it! What a sh*tty system!!! Puuuhlease, gimme a break. A release date hasn't even been announced for it, there's still a lot of work to be done. It would be incredibly stupid for them to release it if it wasn't close enough to 1:1 to not be noticeable.

Go do research on the hardware of the eyetoy, then come back when you have something substantial.. (oh wait, there isn't anything.)

[onanie]

Natal does have glaring flaws in its current state. Sure, it can be used with the standard controller, but that creates two new issues.

Firstly, it contradicts the hype of having a controllerless controller.

Secondly, in the specific context of using Natal in conjunction with a controller, all of Natal's functions can be replaced by a basic PSEye, even without the glosticks. We're talking about head tracking (the above youtube link more than illustrates that), pointing, waving, spell casting (even the PS2 EyeToy did that), even driving - did I mention voice recognition? I don't think Microsoft can deal with that.

[gaffyh]

@Kakkoi - I don't have a problem with MS in fact I have a 360, but I will not be buying this motion controller unless there is a really really good game coming for it (which there won't be). Unlike you I can see the difference between PSEye and Natal and it's not that great, and I'm not being sucked into the hype of an UNPROVEN product.

All you fanboys are extremely retarded for thinking this is the next thing in gaming.

Also the PSEye has "An all-new four microphone array, incorporating multidirectional voice location tracking, enhanced echo cancelling and background noise suppression allows for clear audio chat in even the most noisy of environments, without the need to hold or wear a headset." - http://www.us.playstation.c...

What was that you said Kakkoii? PSEye only has a single Microphone?

[I_am_rushin]

I am amazed that this article which brought up COD4 didn't even mention how you are supposed to shoot a gun.

Anyone? Please explain to me how to shoot a game with Natal?

[Kakkoii]

@gaffyh: Unlike me, you can see the differences? Lol? I'm the one who's been arguing for the differences the whole time fool.

I'm not being "sucked in" to the hype. I'm a tech enthusiast, and this is an awesome system that's been put together from a technical perspective. And if that fanboy comment was directed at me also, it's not true. I don't own either console, nor do I have a bias to either one, I'm a PC Gamer. If I had the money, I'd buy both consoles.

And good for the PSEye upgrading to a 4 microphone array. The camera and the microphone aren't what I care most about in Natal. It's the depth sensing system developed by 3DV that is what makes Natal great.

[Downtown boogey]

FPSs merely utilizing Natal. Natal is at least partially lacking Z-axis movement as well as any long-term movement like running and walking around a game world. Also if you'd associate the standard 360 controller with natal you'd end up with a really awkward solution!

[fenix1300]

you completely fail.
"
The reason natal is better, is because of the depth sensor! Which you seemed to have ignored in your post. 3DV had been designing the technology for that sensor for over a decade. Since it's able to actually see the 3D shape of what's in front of it, Natal can know exactly what's happening, not guess based on images from a video like the Eyetoy does."

except for the fact that the PSE was able to determine the tension on the string based on how far you pull back while keeping 1:1 meaning that the PSE is able to sense depth, and thus making Natal completely pointless. I didn't ignore your post you just chose not to read mine and then made assumptions. voice recognition is software based and thus improves the more you use it the micophone is another moot point, also I believe that gaffyh pointed out that the microphone is the same or something.

So now lets see if you can answer my question from before. IF NATAL CAN NOT DO ANYTHING MORE THAN THE PSE WHAT IS SO GREAT ABOUT IT?
and why weren't they firing bows and arrows?

[Kakkoii]

Ok, I was wrong, you didn't ignore what I said, you were merely to stupid to understand the technology.

The eyetoy only guess's the tension using software based on the images it's receiving. While Natal use's an actual 3D f*cking sensor to see the string bending in 3D space. I don't really know how much more I can dumb it down for you. You don't seem to understand how the underlying tech actually works.

[NegativeCreepWA]

Basically he cant play COD on it so he doesn't like, a bit narrow minded.

[Pennywise]

What about burnout... can you explain to me how you push the gas, or break... what about turbo? How does it know the difference between brake and handbrake? No controllers necessary.

[JOLLY1]

Burnout was probably a bad example. People were demoing Burnout and said it worked really well.

[Gun_Senshi]

By Shouting Turbo because Natal has voice regonition.

Oh wait Eyetoy on PS2 had.

By making ugly face due to facil regonition.

Oh way PSEye has that too.

Edit: Penny there is sarcasm in my post :P

[Pennywise]

No way shouting BRAKE is going to give me the same response of pushing the button. How hard to brake? How long? Can you push break and gas together - SCREAM GAKE!

[Mr_Bun]

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!!!!!

[outlawlife]

ign has an article about natal where they got to play burnout with it, the guy explains controls and said it worked flawlessly

[lokiroo420]

Mr bundy they went into no detail, like what is being discussed above you, how do you keep your boost going, gas and brake at the same time, they said foot forward gas, foot back brake, how did they do both and then add boost to it? flawlessly, hahahahahahaha!

[Defectiv3_Detectiv3]

I'd really love to see a video of somebody playing a racer w/ this thing. What are you going to do, shout 'break 80%' 'rotate steering wheel counter clockwise 44 degreess'.

From the racing game I saw them demo, it looked really generic. To accelerate, all the guy did was move his foot foward, it didn't gage how far he moved his foot, it just accelerated to a predeterming speed.

Making subtle movements is not this tech's forte. A lot of hardcore games live or die by subtle input.

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, Motion Tech is merely a gimmick. At the very most, it will only be used to complement hardcore games(kinda like the tilt controller).

I already predict that next year the gimmick will be 3-D graphics.

[lokiroo420]

forget brake, gas or gake, your going to be screaming ffffffffffffff################ ##ccccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

[Pennywise]

3d graphics might be cool.

[rawd]

GAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKEEE EEE

[Johnny Jiron]

I'm sure with a little basic thinking you can come up with a solution for any game type. Stop being so narrow minded about things. This is still in early stages with plenty of time to figure out how to get things to function as well as refine the whole setup. I'd imagine also some of the tech being implemented right into the next console, such as the voice and facial recognition. I quite like the idea of walking into a room saying something and having my console startup a movie for me. You see this stuff in sci-fi flicks all the time, it's nice to see some of it starting to become reality.

Please tho consider the fact that this is just an option and not a full on replacement for playing games among other things. You will always have a controller and games that need them. There is more to it than just dancing around in front of a camera and people seem to be ignoring all those other possibilities.

Another thing to consider is who this may eventually be aimed at. I know most gamers tend to be loners or something, but you must be aware that others have you know families and children. It cheesy looking in those promo vids, but its certainly feasible. I help run a daycare and let the kids play Rock Band on Fridays. These types of games and devices just add options and variety and really boosts a kids imagination like i imagine that painting thing could....

Hmm I'm on an unorganized and poorly aimed rant, but I think my point is in there.

[Pennywise]

I own a PSeye. I am asking questions because I already know the answers... Just for kicks.

I'm not being narrow minded - YOU NEED BUTTONS. /end

[joevfx]

come on guys be realistic, if they came out with a burnout game that used the air for steering and stepping forward to gas, would you actually freakign stand there like a tool with your arms in the air stepping back and forth playing this game for more then 15min? please you all know you wont.

microsoft did not make Natal for the people on a website like this, me and you. they made it for family fun time and thats all.

[All-3]

http://e3.g4tv.com/thefeed/...

Instead, I stood in front of the TV and the “Natal,” and held my hands at 10 and 2 like I was holding an invisible steering wheel. I then stepped my right leg forward and away I went. Okay, away I went into a wall, and then another wall, and then a parked car, but after playing with it for a few minutes, I was able to steer in and out of traffic like I would with a regular controller. I could even brake by moving my right leg back (insert your own hokey pokey joke here), and could activate the boost by jerking my right arm back much the way you would if you were shifting in a car with manual transmission.

Natal tracks 48 points on a person's body and those can be used separately or in combination. It's possible to track finger movements. It also has voice recognition. So any combination could be used for those issues you've brought up. It's up to the game developers. Natal can also be used along with standard controllers... as well as with more than one player.

[Gun_Senshi]

Finally someone with brains.

Media rips on Wiimote and Eyetoy and PlaystationEye.

MS Makes copy and hailed as best thing ever!

Sony try to fix the error that was done with PSEye and EyeToy (No controller to press buttons, accuracy) and get ripped on.

PS. Sony and MS can shove their motion controllers where the sun don't shine

[Pennywise]

Once again leave the bs talk to MS and let sony shut everyone up when it works the best.

Either way motion gaming isnt for me... but shame on all these guys prasing natal as the second coming.

[Sarcasm]

I don't get it. What's with the media and getting on their knee's to everything Microsoft does?

They praise and praise and praise. What sort of brainwashing techniques do they use besides

"FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. FORZA 3 IS THE DEFINITIVE RACER THIS GENERATION. "

[rockleex]

Developers developers developers developers developers

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

And here are some more techniques they use.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[ironmonkey]

its a flaw already waste of money

[lokiroo420]

Its about time someone showed a sack between their legs, about f'ing time, project natal has more holes in it than Mart's crusty underwear.

[MainstreamGamer]

Natal has greatest potential to be the next leap in gaming and also the greatest potential to fail, I'm hoping for the latter. :) Who knows what the future of gaming will bring, Onlive anyone. lol

[Why o why]

theres nothing wrong with MS direction and ambition. Many were dissin them for showing a general lack of these characteristics.. we cant have it both ways

[Stammpied]

I think people need to think of the possibilities of Natal AND a controller. Playing a racing game you could use a FF Racing Wheel to control the car but slightly rotating your head left will pan the camera left and rotating right would pan right. And you will not have to move your head so far that you can't see the screen. A simple use of Natal but the emersion it would give the racing game would be huge, looking around the "In-car" view by moving your head.
If Natal is precise enough I think you could also use head tracking to replace the right analog stick on the controller for FPS. You would use your head movements like a mouse to move the aiming cursor around the screen. The gamer would still be sitting on the couch, using the control to move and fire but the aiming is handled by moving you head.

[D4RkNIKON]

But.. If natal incorporates a controller, then it will be the same as Sony's device. Sony's was extremely accurate too. So the only thing left to make the two different is GAMES. IMO Sony has the lineup to make this into something great. Also Sony has had years of experience in this field with the eye toys.

[TomAB]

I was kinda with you until you started talking about about moving your head to aim in an fps. No offense but that is the worst concepts for a game mechanic I have ever heard

[Ju]

Hm, ... just thinking ... a GoW3 patch in spring 2010 with the release of Sony's motion controller. ... Good luck with the hardcore games supporting Natal, MS.

[Downtown boogey]

So I'm just gonna check out my flank: Turning my head around 180 degrees, away from the SCREEN... Wait, what's that? My couch? Looks sooooo realistic!

[D4RkNIKON]

OH MY GOD, downtownboogey.. AMAZING comment haha I laughed out loud.

[Mr_Controversy]

LOL @ this article. Some people are still in their Homo Erectus states that are too scared to evolve. A couple of decades ago, people didn't believe we could walk on the moon.

I laugh at all these naysayers. If Natal didn't work, I highly doubt Microsoft would let anyone test it out. Too bad it works.

[Mr_Bun]

You are comparing natal to 'walking on the moon'?

EDIT...thank you for fixing "evolve"

[lokiroo420]

err?

[AnonUser5555]

A couple of decades, eh? That would put us somewhere in the 80s. Pretty sure we had walked on the moon by then champ.

[SaberEdge]

Man first walked on the moon in 1969, which was 4 decades ago. So yes, that was only a couple of decades ago.

You do know that 'a couple' doesn't mean just two, right? It simply refers to any unspecified small number of things.

http://www.thefreedictionar...
Adj. 1. a couple of - more than one but indefinitely small in number; "a few roses"; "a couple of roses"

So he was right and you were wrong.

[TomAB]

From a game design perspective, natal brings a lot to the table, but it also takes a lot away. The biggest issue i see is navigation. How are you supposed to walk around and large open enviroment without an analogue stick or d pad? Having said that I can't imagine how immersive a game could be using natal combined with some good 3d tech.

@ diagrees. Got any suggestions?

[Pennywise]

You need a controller in the mix which creates another problem because with a controller as is in you hand... you cant move your arms around.

[mario2man]

how are hardcore xbox fans going to play their favorite franchises such as halo and gears with this thing those are the type of games hardcore gamers play not breakout with avatars

[X_GAMER_X]

another idiot who wants more hits o his site.
never heard of him/her or it.
Let the project in peace now what ur dam problem?
when its released come with ur so called opinion.
Its still not released and at early stage.
We dont know how it will work. Most people who saw it said it was amazing. Even I find it amazing. Voice and face recognition.
I would be v very happy if it only did voice recognition, On/off, Play movie or signs me inn when I stand in front of my 360.
Its gonna be more, So wait and see

[Mr_Controversy]

Yes, I'm comparing it to walking on the moon. Natal is the next logical step. Why wouldn't it be?

Before Virtual Reality is possible, Natal would be the beginning. How do you expect to walk in a life-like game? With a controller? Nope.

Natal may not be our future, but it will no doubt be the future to many generations ahead of us. From the T-Ford to a Ferrari. What Nintendo couldn't do, Microsoft has done.

[Pennywise]

Please take a minute and explain to me how going to the moon was logical.

[Ju]

Well, this concept is good for construction companies, too. It will solve our economic crisis. Now they can offer houses with 2bd + a 20x20 game room, because you want "to walk the game".

</sarcasm>

[Salvadore]

Of course Natal will have flaws, but it will not replace the standard controller nor work for all game genres and this is what people are forgetting. However, this doesn't necessarily mean that it cannot be used as an additional tool for immersing the player.

[Socomer 1979]

Where the kid scanned a skateboard & the father simulated a Pitt stop in a racing game?
How the fck do you do that without any buttons? What happened to pressure sensitive it's not cool anymore?
Ha ha ha!
Cmon, welcome xbutts to this is your life. You are fred savage & this movie is called wizard. Here is your new power glove.

There's a reason why mo cap actors get paid & here you are ready to pay for it.
Hee hee!
Pennywise said it best! "How the fck does it know when I want to turbo or press gas & brake? Yell GAKE?!!!?"
Ha ha ha!

We all should be making sure this crap never comes out. Not for fear but for some self respect.
I hate xbutts with a passion but I wouldn't wish this sh1t on my worst enemy. Maybe mooks if he youtubes himself with it. Nah, not even mooks. Ha ha ha!

[Pennywise]

:D I was QUOTED!!

Hey check out the dingbat comparing Natal to going to the moon in the gamer section. He is my favorite today.

[Mr_Bun]

You're famous!

[Pennywise]

Where's my money?

[bullswar]

The thing is ... Pony fanboys cant see past their own shadows in daylight and at night simply blind.

First of all ... Project Natal is way more and true next gen which tiny heads of pony fanboys cant even comprehend. Project Natal is not all about Wii kind of kiddish stuff where u have to carry a prop around ... it is true motion trackin system.

With the help of Project Natal, Head motion tracking is possible ... You'll be able to peek around corners and look left and right with slight head motion in FPS like MW2 or Operation Flashpoint 2 Milsim games ... while pony fanboys will be using analogue stick to look around.

Bu ... bu ... bu you wont be able to see screen if you move your head left and rigt ... well I knew your puny brain wont understand this concept ... therefore Im attaching video as welll ... so itll give u an idea what this technology is all about and what it can acheive. Immersivness extreme. Possibilites are endless.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

The thing is Pony Fanboys are furious they got nothing but icecream motion controller while Xbox 360 got next gen device which'll make casual and hardcore gaming a whole new experience.

Why so serious !!!!!!1 ...... hahahhaaaa

[NewZealander]

fanboys like you really bring this site down, sony fanboys are truely crazy, we should all be able to enjoy E3 but nooooo.

[MGOelite]

you fail so hard bullswar. sixaxis is great for peaking round cornors and works great in socom, also ducking and peaking over the top of things work as well. fair enough its the only thing sixaxis is good for but its their

in other words sony has already got the peaking round cornors using motion sensors sorted and the eyetoy could easily be used to tell if your are turning your head

[Xander-RKoS]

There are a lot of console gamers that depend on rumble. Rumble is a big thing, it's environmental feedback and I personally find it harder to react in FPS games when I'm playing on my PC then on a console, since receiving audio feedback from the speakers is not as instantaneous as feeling rumble from the controller (small difference, but our brains work so much faster than our bodies so every millisecond counts).

Removing the controller is dumb. The Natal does make for a great interface devise and a devise for some casual games, but when moving forward presents a problem you know there are some bugs to work out.

[Senden]

I don't really understand where any hate is coming from really... everyone is taking what microsoft showed at face value but do you really think they are showing their best hand? The announcement and what they showed.. they always knew it was going to be enough with the sort of people the presentation was aimed at... a good poker player doesn't show all his cards... why give everyone gold when you know they will be delighted with silver?

Next year we will see what is truly possible.. for better or for worse however microsoft aren't stupid and while they want to attract the nintendy crowd, they wont turn their backs on the gamer gamers. I think everyone needs to use their imagination a little bit more with the possiblities instead of focusing on just the facts we have.

I'd almost bet money on microsoft demoing this at next E3 with halo reach.. they must have invested a lot of money in the technology and what better way to market it than making it seem like a must have feature for fans of arguably one of the biggest IPs in gaming. While the writer of the article mentioned camera movement.. when there is a will there is a way.. microsoft have some smart people working for them who will make it work.

[borgome]

Project Natal is going to be sweeeeeeet!

[peeps]

hmmm i can't help but feeling a driving game would be better with a stearing wheel in ur hands and pedals beneath ur feet

[Xander-RKoS]

Having something real is definitely better than pretending to hold something. Nintendo and Sony got that part right. In fact, that was the whole reasoning behind the Wii Wheel, that it just feels more natural.

[Rowsdower]

"Ecks of The Gaming Dungeon takes a look at Project Natal, and the unwarranted optimism gamers have for the device"

Leave it N4G to attempt to dissuade folks from being optimistic.

Abandon all hope ye that enter here.

[lokiroo420]

There is a difference between optimism and what M$ was saying natal is going to be.

[jinxS1591]

I don't stand to watch TV why hell I'm going to do this crap to play a game don't care if its the xbox360 or the ps3.

[Dick0]

be jelous

[Pennywise]

We be jealous of your Grade A grammar.

[Oner]

There's no reason to be. PS fans had it since the PS2 LAST GEN...this is just another attempt at MS stealing, copying or buying others ideas, instead of being innovative. Just as they always have, and for those with a short memory just remember how MS started as a company ;)

[360_Rules]

Yeah they are. Natal is like the Space age and the PS3 glow motion stick is like the bronze age. ;-D

[Oner]

For the biased & misinformed that just won't admit the truth ~

"The EyeToy was originally devised by Dr. Richard Marks, who had the idea of connecting a web camera to a PlayStation 2 and using it as a peripheral to play video games. The idea of using cameras in games was not new, as it was previously used in many arcade games and toys such as the Game Boy Camera and the Dreameye digital camera for the Sega Dreamcast, the latter of which affected the development of the EyeToy; however, with the resolution of modern cameras and the processing power of the PlayStation 2 new ideas were possible that were not achievable on the Game Boy. The idea was taken up by SCE London Studio, ****who showed a concept in 2002**** with four games"

Source ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Here are some additional videos showing how Natal does't do anything more than what the EyeToy already has done and show that the inclusion/implementation of a controller was set along time ago as well ~

http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Now just add this old video to the mix http://www.youtube.com/watc... and it shows even more capabilities that the PS Eye can do RIGHT NOW....So lets use our imagination for a second ~ this plus the motion control would make a pretty damned good FPS experience with technology Sony has innovated with since 2002 (7 YEARS AGO!).

[Senden]

Your right Xander and to truly be immersive, they will need to look at this. But to be honest, who said microsoft won't somehow release a custom controller for it?

[testerg35]

Why do PS3 users have to say hardcore everytime. If you want hardcore use the damn controller. Natal will have specific games for it. Oh wait.. using Sony's motion dildo on a racing game feels natural to you? So its now "hardcore" for you to flail your arms around cause Sony now has new motion controller?

[giovonni]

How a simple thing like a lack of controller function can all of a sudden make you write something off. I'm telling you its physiological when people are taken away from what they consider normal they panic and make all sorts of exaggerated claims why it may not work limiting the possibility to evolve. "I'm going to look like an idiot playing this" " the game with the little boy is to creepy" "its going to get boring fast". Here's the kicker....

Theses people complaining haven't played it.. Isn't that something? What's even funnier is this... If Natal takes off guess who is going to be playing it.. You guessed those who said they would look like an idiot jumping up and down.

[giovonni]

Theses articles kill me, and I take it all with a grain of salt. You want to know why? Hard core fans, and writers are the biggest hypocrites when it comes to new technology, and go over board with their visions of how a game may play. settle down and let the games and system speak for it self. People were complaining about the Wii, and the image of how they would look playing it, and how many have been sold?

The issue I have with some is the fact you aren't willing to try something that's not normal. With Natal, if done right, we could see a big step in gaming. Yes pseye and blah blah has done it, but not to the magnitude of where MS may want to take it. It's a proto type right now who says that we may not be able to use a controller with it? People are so quick to jump the gun.

I am excited about this movement. How is gaming truly going to progress if we continue not to let the companies evolve. Your fears are created because natal may take you out of your comfort zone? because of the lack of a controller, are you guys truly gamers. Cause gamers don't care how it's packaged if the games are AAA we playing it no matter what is needed.

[Gun_Senshi]

Both Natal and PS3 Motion Mote are NOT Standard. WiiMote is STANDARD.

Why did games with WiiZapper did piss poor? Because its not standard.

These 2 will fail probably, and both sony and MS can stick these crap up their bottom. I dont want to move my foot foward to press gas on burnout. I just buy a 3rd party steering wheel (and probably cheaper) and have better result. I won't wiggle a dildo looking thing too

[Socomer 1979]

Your in a intence game of halo & you scream into your mic: goodnight muthafcker! & the system turns off.

You have guest & they talk with the hands alot & you have to keep telling them to stay still stupid.

Everytime you go to the bathroom the sytem turns on & off.

Your girlfriend is gossiping about friends & they heard the whole conversation. Ooops!

You're stuck playing natal all by yourself.

You ask milo if he loves you & he says yes.

Waving at the interface is innacurate & your controllers battery is dead.

Anybody care to add? : )

[cyborg6971]

Lol goodnight mother and the system turns off funny as hell

[ChozenWoan]

Milo asks if he can have an Eyepet for Christmas.

[Mr_Potato_]

lol chozen, bubble+ that comment made me laugh.

[leyego]

lol chozen that was pretty funny i admit it

[lwelyk]

I can tell that many of you haven't read the article by what your complaints are. For instance, someone reported the story for:

"Lame: (5 minutes ago)
Microsoft said that there will be games that use Natal, use Natal and a standard 360 controller, or just a controller alone. "

Yeah, if you READ it, he addresses that.

[divideby0]

To sum Natal up

Great tech demo.

It will NOT run the way we want it to in games.. 360 does not have the horsepower to run it the way we want and the PS3 "might" be able to years from now. The number crunching power of the PS3 will excel with this app. which is not and will not be graphically intensive.

Will NEVER be used in competitive online game play, just as present motion control is not, if given a choice.

It will be to expensive and as MS has shown us (HDDVD, HD expansion for the 360) expensive addys ALWAYS fail (even Sony's PS3 HD can be used as an example.

I have seen AI like this running on a mainframe and also on a cluster of servers....sorry but the 360 just wont pull this wagon like we want.

I am really into the technology..its years away for real gamers..

[AnonUser5555]

Great article. Finally some people are actually looking at the Natal from a practical standpoint rather than being awestruck by the technology.

[NMC2007]

It's funny, I remember everyone saying the same thing about the Wii before it released.

[Shuya]

I think price will be the biggest hurdle for this, people are so accepting of the wii and ds because they are relatively cheap.

But with the technology incorporated in Microsoft's device I doubt they can sell it competitively (to the wii audience it is aimed at) without taking a loss on each sale.

[AssassinHD]

I have to agree with this article. I have read the comments on his site, and I could agree with them if it were not for the fact that they pushed the fact that Natal could work with every game. I would pay to see someone get through the first level of Ninja Gaiden without a controller.

[divideby0]

^^ that would be a laugh riot...
the person would be drop dead tired after the first round.

AND kicking floaty balls vs hand to hand combat are 2 completely diff. speeds the camera will struggle at

[giovonni]

Game was released on Natal used no controller... and it I don't know.... worked better then using a controller and won game of the year, and best innovative game of the year? Would it still be hilarious and a pain to pass the first board or would you and your friend take turns advancing through the levels?

[AssassinHD]

I work on a team of 4 in my office and one of my coworkers had to take a sick day once after playing a boxing game on the Wii. I simply cannot imagine playing a fast paced game like Ninja Gaiden without a controller. How would you do a wind roll? How would you do a wall run? How about a backflip? Can you imagine doing a backflip, shooting an arrow in mid-air, and getting into a blocking posture or offensive melee posture quickly with your body after doing that?

Edit: Heck the 360 is famous for shooters. Can you honestly tell me that you could be able to respond in COD4 as quickly with Natal as you would with a controller? Sprint, ok now you are sprinting, quick switch weapons, aim down the barrel, and kill....oh you weren't fast enough. Ok now the enemy has just thrown a grenade at your feet, get out of the way without breaking the living room furniture. See what I am getting at here?

[giovonni]

See this is what I am talking about, you don't have to do the exact move to get it done, this is where I said above there is an over exaggeration MS and other companies know people are not going to do back flips. so they may assign a specific body movement to do it. blocking could be as simple as not getting in a fighting position or putting your fore arms up parallel to your chest to block the speed of the enemies can be toggled by difficulty. In Zelda in order to do a wind mill spin did you spin your self dizzy? no. lets not over exaggerate this. trust me they will assign simple movements to get things done people are afraid of change. Sony tried to push a boomerang controller, you guys had no idea what it did, and they wrote it off, and got the same controller with Sixxis all cause people wouldn't give it a chance...wow

Give it a chance to fail, because if it doesn't I bet you will be the first to be playing it

[AssassinHD]

Well obviously you are not going to be doing backflips. With zelda you had to charge up your attack with a button and then swing the controller to do a spin attack, but a button was involved. My point is that this has been done before with the EyeToy, and the lack of buttons didn't really work then, so I don't expect it to now. Again though, it was a nice proof of concept on Microsoft's part, but I would have liked to see a practical demonstration of something a little more involving than painting or breakout.

Think about it from a practical standpoint. With a controller you have like 16 buttons, that can be pressed in various combinations to perform different tasks. With Natal, you can use your whole body, but you can only make so many different motions at once, so right off the bat you are going to lose functionality.

[ballsofsteel]

this brings up alot of good point but only time will tell if natal will work like it's advertised to. i do think people are getting a little carried away in terms of hype. i could see natal being as good as MS is saying and it very well could change gaming but it could just as easily see it failing and/or only having casual ware. PS3's motion controls looks like a safer risk and with the power of the PS3 i can see some awesome games coming out in the future. again only time will tell once we start seeing games come out that support natal we can better judge but still people are already believing all the hype and they could be setting themselves up for disappointment

[OmegaSlayer]

I LOL when I think that during an FPS you turn your head to see more left or more right but you don't watch the f*ck1ng TV screen and you get teabagged by a moron that has understood that if you spawn and go only forward all guns lazing you win the match.

Oops, MS will solve the problem, you have to buy 3 TVs

Then...imagine if Chuck Norris get this game and starts to play Street Fighter online...

And in my dreams I see people who get their couches in front of the TV just to cover behind them while playing with Gears.

Actually the tech is ultra cool but the application is uttermostly dork1sh, plus start to think how much CPU power is needed to make the system understand all you movements...with Ninja Gaiden it would be millions of RRODs day one

[bjornbear]

Someone finally stating a fair argument. It doesn't bash it, but it doesn't praise it like the mindless followers have been doing. People tend to get "fad crazy" and this was very clearly the case. Sometimes things need to be analysed from a neutral point of view.

I totally agree with the whole article, its fair and packs the right points.

I realised he mentioned the power glove, and i actually thougth of Natal when i saw the power glove on a youtube video just the other day, cz it literally had the same effect in the market. It was"revolutionary" (god they even made a movie about it) but...didn't work that well =/...

Obv natal will work better and does work better, but same point...just because its new doesn't mean it its perfect.

[mrv321]

Didn't every 360 fanboy when the PS3 was launched complain about rumble... this completely removes everything.

Then we have the price. How much will you pay for something that won't add much to games you now play like COD 4, Halo 3, PGR 4, and now what will happen? I like controllers they offer accuracy this may be accurate but as accurate as a controller because I doubt it. Milo did look interesting but you'd be 2 degrees below brain dead to believe that's non scripted, it's basically a voice controlled text based adventure game, you get a large list of things to say but if you say something off the list then what will it self program itself and respond like a human.

[OmegaSlayer]

You got another point.
People wanted rumble as a feedback from the game.
Maybe MS will somehow steal and invert Vitality Sensor from Nintendo just to shock your ass when someone hits you.

This thing is too much in the future, good maybe for the next or next-next gen, but not now.

MS maybe has looked further, so...kudos, but it's looking too much further.

And actually, if you understand MS strategy, they only wanted to schock the world, and that's the reason why they invited the Beatles...heck they did get so much money that Paul and Ringo managed to stay on the same city of Yoko Ono.
In Italy no press took care of E3, that is a Planetary event, considering how much money is involved in gaming busyness, but everyone spoke about the Beatles reunion.

[Ninjamonkey]

After tyhinking about whilst there are problems at the end of the day many devs will be hugely enthusiastic about making this work, and no doubt they will find imaginitive ways to do so.

And wh said MS wont release a controller to go with it? Thats how I think it should work. Controller for the trigger and walking. Your body for turning, dodging, crouching, lying down...

Imagine playing MGS4 (or 5) and actually lying down holding a pretend gun, like MGS3 where you hide in the grass. It'd be very cool (apart from looking like an idiot XD)

[OmegaSlayer]

No, you don't look like an idiot, because no one sees you since you have to play in a room where no one EVER enters and where no one else but you speaks.

[giovonni]

You'd play it wouldn't you? If it all of a sudden became the it and made the controller the thing of the past, you would be in the living room doing all that you have just made fun of. We don't know how it's all going to work, lets see how it all works, and then make our judgment from there

[OmegaSlayer]

Bro, by the time this thing comes out I will be near 35, I've already got very few spare time for gaming, and I don't want to have an heart attack before time. ;)

And since I game from more than 25 years, I'm pleased at how game works, and IMHO I would prefer a 16 button controller than this.

Call it fear for the new things, call it attachment to "vintage" gaming.

Actually, if this kind of thing become the new way of playing, I'll cut myself out, I already don't like online gaming too much.

Mine is an older way of thinking games, mine is the conception of me against the machine (people who played Ghouls'N'Ghosts or Strider maybe can understand what I mean)

It's a different way of seeing things, due to age and different experience perhaps.

Absolutely I like MS and Sony strains and thingamabobs techwise but not gameplaywise.

[aldesko]

People are jumping onto Natal like they jumped onto onLive when it was first announced... then everyone realized it's probably a bit early to start saying it will change gaming forever.

Give them a year and wait until they show off a more fleshed out version at next E3 or CES and allow everyone to try it with applications like the ones shown in that montage.

[SaberEdge]

Actually LIVE did change my gaming habits forever and was the single biggest thing to come along since I started playing games back on the NES. It was such a game changer, in fact, that Nintendo and Sony decided they needed to follow the same course.

[aldesko]

I said "onLive", not XBL. onLive is that service that will allow you to game without having a system. Everyone thought it would come out in a few months, be affordable, and change the gaming industry forever. Then a few weeks later after people actually thought about it, they stopped talking about it.

Nobody would honestly say XBL didn't change gaming.

[Morituri]

I think it best to reserve judgment on all of this stuff until they actually present you with some games. Until then, this is all vaporware - that goes for both SONY & MS. MS has alot more to prove however, because the Sony product is just more practical on paper. That's not to say that MS could not pull this off, but considering their track record with hardawre...Ahem...I would seriously wait until all these magical features that they are touting are proven to be for realz for realz.

So don't mail in your gonads to MS yet folks. Lets see what develops.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Articles like this kills me. I'm buying this the first day it comes out. Of course I not going to use this for my hardcore games. But there are times that I use my 360 for Party Chats, Netflix movies and music. It would be quite difficult to play games like Halo. But then again, I cannot be negative of what someone has an idea to become reality. At least MS has a feedback system open to the public asking what they want to see.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

There is always going to be scrutiny about any new tech. I think MS has a winner with Natal if they can bring it to market in a reasonable amount of time and get some great game support for it.

What gets me is people are acting like this is the final retail product when this is just the first time it's being shown.

[Neo604]

this is not a new tech.

[Dick0]

xbox 360 http://i41.tinypic.com/1qog...

[Mr_Potato_]

then you wake up and all you see is Kojima explaining MGSR is a crappy action spinoff he hates, and the real sequel is MGS Peace Walker on PSP.

[SaberEdge]

I am sure MGS Peace Walker is going to be a good game, but let's be honest, in no way is it going to equal a full MGS release on HD consoles. That would be like pretending Killzone Liberation is equal to Killzone 2. Funny.

Oh and that stuff about Kojima hating MGS Rising is a bunch of bullsh!t. He never said that. That was something PS3 fanboys invented to make themselves feel better. And why in the hell would he say that about a game he is involved with? At the very least it is his company's game and only a naive fanboy would be ignorant enough to think somebody like Kojima would say something like that.

[joevfx]

umm what are u talking about? MGSR is coming out on every system but wii. hahaha Kojima didnt even direct it cause he was concentraiting on the exclusive for playstation, hahah, tool.

[Shrinkwrap]

All you need to do with Natal is.
Paint your face white and your a Mime in a (X)box.

Natel is for turing the computer on and off and moving screens around, but not for gaming.

(Mime): an ancient dramatic entertainment representing scenes from life usually in a ridiculous manner.

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Natal is awesome!

I am more interested in the extension of using a classic controller in combination with Natal and the voice recognition stuff.

That's the beauty of Natal it isn't just about waggle or motion control but can be an extension to the way we are already playing on the 360.

[no-spin]

"Natal is awesome!"

You can expect it to be Awesome, but you dont know yet.

Wii Plus, and Sony Motion Control both have a REAL chance of being used in FPS, Platformers, Sports, etc.
Natal Elephant painting showed me one thing: No Precission. Zero control on were the paint is going, just splashes. Both Nintendo and Sony showed Sword handling and 1:1 response. That leaves MS looking like the most gimmick one with no on stage demostration (apart from the ridiculous painting and jumping girl). Right now Natal looks as the weakest of the three. The racing is as generic as it gets, Logitech is famous for delivering feel and precission with their wheels and now the next step is to have an imaginary wheel??? no way!

Natal has to prove itself (Halo Reach Maybe?)

PS: Milo seems like a Pedophile's dream (just like Peter Morynoux looks like a pedophile)

[jarhead906]

@ no-spin

I don't think the Wii is quite 1:1 even with the Motion Plus peripheral. Someone prove me right or wrong.

[tiamat5]

Like I said before I think Microsoft is lying through their teeth. First of all the system is supposed to recognize speech and movement. Suppose I move too fast, will it keep up? Suppose I speak with a slur or accent or a completely different language? How will the game keep up?
Second of all how is the Natal supposed to tell the difference between certain things. If I run faster or slower for instance. If I am jumping or jump kicking. Or if I make a short leap or a high one.Can the game distinguish between whether I have stopped pulling a trigger on a gun.Or if I want to make a quick U-turn in a car or turn only slighty Doesn't that mean I must make specific hand gestures or it won't work? If I don't have the shape of a particular device to scan in does that mean I can't play the game e.g. suppose I have nothing skateboard shaped? and how does it tell the difference between two different items? If I have a stick in my hand for instance and need a baseball bat will it accept the stick? But then suppose I need a sword? How will it know i want a sword and not a bat?
Thirdly unless it is truly a glorified Eyetoy I doubt that Microsoft could get this out for next year or even the year after. If they do the Natal will have to be fine tuned to a point or else it will be destroyed by the competition. If it has any crippling flaws in it, it will be immediately referred too as a copied Eyetoy or a attempt to copy Nintendo. Also Nintendo and Sony users are already used to using the Eyetoy and the Wii-mote and therefore is ready to accept the wand and any changes that Nintendo makes to their controller. However most gamers who play the Xbox 360 have only played shooters, fighting games and racers and may not be so ready to jump off the couch and swing their arms and legs around.It will take a lot of convincing to get anyone to use this especially if the price is too high.I mean lets face it, when it comes to variety with Microsoft they stink. Not even the RPGs that Square Soft crafts for them can beat the sales of Final Fantasy. The only thing that they can call a mascot is Master Chief and that is pathetic. There characters and stories are weak and any attempt at platformers, adventure games or casual games fall flat on it's face. Sorry Xbox owners even if Microsoft gets this out, it still has strong competition and they are treading unfamiliar territory. It could bomb royally.

[Neo604]

voice recongition is not yet perfected.

[enjoi187]

You’ve missed the point. Natal is not aimed at gamers in any way period, so there’s not even a point in saying why it won’t appeal to them. With the economy and the game market what it is, the only console being successful is the Wii, and the other two are dying quick - Microsoft wants the mainstream success, and Natal is as much, if not far far MORE of a ‘fuc* you’ to hardcore gamers than the Wii.

But you attempted to cover that by saying that casual gamers wouldn’t be interested - I disagree. I don’t see why it’ll be any harder for Natal to establish itself among the families of the US. Microsoft is going to advertise this thing so fu*king hard it’s not even going to be funny. It’s going to be talked about on the today show, it’s gunna have a commercial during American Idol or the super Bowl or some sh!t, and the sheer power of ‘OMG’ when average Americans see this technology is going to have them rushing for it. Wives and kids are going to be all over this sh!t.

Now, the price is where the real problem kicks in, but I’m betting they’ll be selling the 360 packaged with Natal when it comes out for about the price a 360 was at launch, and the upper-middle class will eat it right up.

^this guy

any ways Natal is differently getting talked about more than Sonys wii-sticks. and Microsoft wants that...but im getting it for the soon awesome dashboard features perfect for browsing netflix and on demand movies and tv shows...no more downloading....

and no on is trying to replace a controller. *MLG NATAL* no no no you guys have it all wrong and dont know what your saying

[Sez]

i for one am interested in natal and what MS will do with it. regardless of what the naysayer have to say. i mean alot of the questions some of these people on this site have. can also so be directed towards the motion controller sony has like.

1) will i need two motion controllers to play god of war3? how will i do finishers in the game?
2) how will it be used in games like uncharted,warhark? how will i be able to sneak around with it?
3) will it work with older ps3 games or just future games?

these are just some of the question people should also be asking about sony's motion controll.

[jarhead906]

See everyone? He concisely stated his opinion, didn't attack either side of the issue, brought up legitimate concerns about Sony's 'PS-mote' (just like the author of the article did), and most importantly wasn't being a troll!

Anyway, as I said those are legitimate concerns but for both 'Project Natal' and Sony's 'PS-mote' the games are more than likely going to be built around the hardware rather than patching older software to work with them.

For example, patching The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion would definitely be feasible for Sony's 'PS-mote'. 'Project Natal' wouldn't (at this point in time) simply because without a controller it's borderline impossible (which just so happens to be a legitimate concern found in the article. Imagine that.)

[Sez]

i don't see how patching The Elder Scrolls IV Oblivion would definitely be feasible for Sony's 'PS-mote' than project natal. can you create spells with sony's motion controll, how will you be able to talk to people with it,what about switching between weapons,map,spells,ect. i mean other than swinging a sword or casting a spell. i fail to see what else could be done with it in oblivion.

[Gamefan12]

that is the best part .. there are buttons on the controller .. you still use buttons to do things

[Shrinkwrap]

1) will i need two motion controllers to play god of war3?
Answer: Only if you have a PS3 and it only supports GOW4.

1.5)how will i do finishers in the game?
Answer: Depends on your skill level.

2) how will it be used in games like uncharted,warhark?
Answer: thats up to the developers.

2.5)how will i be able to sneak around with it?
Answer: Try putting it in your backpack, but wait till your Mom leaves the room.

3) will it work with older ps3 games or just future games?
Answer: I'm just taking a wild guess, but only future games.

[jarhead906]

Why are there so many narrow minded people? It doesn't matter on whether or not you like or dislike Project Natal, but it does matter on how well you can comprehend the goal of the article.

The goal of the article was to break down what we know about Project Natal and its capabilities that were actually shown at Microsoft's E3 Conference. This does not include the two pre-made videos, especially the 'Milo' interactivity. In addition to the analysis by the author, he makes note of why he believes it won't be as 'revolutionary' as people are predicting it will be. And guess what?

Whether you like it or not, this article is probably one of the best written, unbiased, and informative articles I've seen on N4G, let alone about 'Project Natal'. He is right in just about every point he makes in the article.

I've been scanning some of the comments on here, and the biggest problem that I noticed is that most people make their own connections about what is written in the article rather than see what points the author was making.

For example, SaberEdge @ 1.23 (I only picked you because you spell properly and seem to be decently objective) made this comment:

"... So much of his argument made no sense. It won't be able to work with past released games and that makes it fail?..."

This is an example on how SaberEdge drew his own conclusion instead of the one that the author intended. Keep in mind that the author is speaking to the audience claiming 'Project Natal' will be revolutionary. The author was merely pointing out that the vast majority of 'real' games (past and future) will not be able to work very efficiently with the control idea of no controller. This is a legitimate concern. He mentions Burnout Paradise because Microsoft was advertising such games to work smoothly with 'Project Natal'. He did not judge the quality of 'Project Natal' at all based solely on one demonstration.

I don't know what else I can say here besides that people are still going to see what they want regardless.

[BakaTanuki]

I am not the author, but the blog's owner. That comment was spot on and the author has said "that made my day".

For posterity sake, would you mind also posting that on the blog itself's comments? You certainly don't have to, but it really needs to be read by all.

[USMCj]

I'd love to see these comments if sony had made natal

"OOOo0o0o0 Take that M$ SONY FTW XBOXS SO OLDS LOLZ"

but alas we made so you bash it, it's the sony fanboy way. "Bash what you can't have"

Bring on the disagree's!

[bilbobob]

just makes you a M$ Fanboy. You need to go back to when the PS3 was released and see just what 360 Fanboys were spouting then.

Dont try to pretend falling on one side of the fence makes you better. It doe not.

After all I think a lot of you are all worried the grass may be greener on the other side.

[bilbobob]

You know while you lot are still arguing this one out I will be busy playing Uncharted 2, God of war 3, Gran Turismo 5, Agent (eventually) and god knows how many other great titles. Feel free to join me sometime. Let the tech guys fight it out on each side. Because in reality not one of you is going to win this argument till the things are out and been thru the ringer for a year or so.

360 owners feel free to echo this statement replacing the games I named for 360 exclusive ones.

[USMCj]

and this doesn't make you a fanboy? You criticize me and the post this.

What a delirious holier-than-thou attitude you have.

[danfry]

Paaarrrppp, oops there goes another MicroSoft brain fart.

[darkmurder]

So a site that wasn't at E3, didn't get to play with Natal gets to say how it doesn't work... yeah thanks I'll just wait and go read about how it actually works at IGN. As I've stated before, people don't realise PROPS could be usable eg a GUN!

[cmrbe]

when this falls flat on its face. Its is just stupid. This is not VR. Since its not VR you will still need an input device ie controller.

[chavafx]

1 ps3 is 399 right xbox360 is 199 on ps3 you need the di-ldo light stick + ps3 eye camera wich will be no less then $70 so we are taking about 530$ ps3 wit tax good luck on the casual appel dear sony fan boys and thats only one dild-o light stick vs natal is 100 + 199 360
299 with no need for extra controllers

[Shrinkwrap]

You have no idea what these are going to cost to manufacture and sell.

Go draw a pie chart with Natal, it will only take you 15 minutes.
Your pie chart will look like a elephant to.

[Blue22]

My main issue is will it screw my game up when one of my kids runs in front of me while I am playing, because that is a given during any daytime gaming session.

[chavafx]

1 ps3
is 399 right xbox360 is 199 on ps3 you need the di-ldo light stick + ps3 eye camera wich will be no less then $70 so we are taking about 530$ ps3 wit tax good luck on the casual appel dear sony fan boys and thats only one dild-o light stick vs natal is 100 + 199 360
299 with no need for extra controllers

[tyjpet]

Natal is meant to be treated as a new system, the 30 million people out there that have a 360 could go out and get basically a whole new system for 100 dollars and just hook it up to the console they already have no need to spend money on a wii and an extra controller and so on… then on the same system play cod 4 when you want… which brings me to my next point. what if we could see a seemless merge between the controller AND natal?! I don’t know why more people havent envisioned this but imagine signing on to your tag just by saying turn on and the system wakes up and signs you in, you say launch disk and cod 4 loads up, then you start up the game as usual controller in hand sitting comfortably and as your playing and you come up to the corner and you lean left TO PEAK AROUND A CORNER!!!!! come on guys even though its just something small it is absolutey possible and it would just be so cool… You cant tell me you don’t do that now even with out natal… you got to open your minds and think beyond which is what i think natal is all about its endless possibilities being that you need not hold anything it could be the primary controller or possibly a secondary controller for small gestures in SUPPLIMENT to your stantard controller…

Just some thoughts…

[Shrinkwrap]

Do you think Sony never thought of that with the PS EYE.

And do not say the PS Eye cannot do that.

Microsoft is the one saying "You are the Controller" & "you don't need Buttons"

It's a start, but this technology is not ready for gaming.
They should have put it into a PC first.

[keysy420]

i agree project natal although it seemed cool its not for hardcore gamers. That is my problem with m$ and their conference although it was cool to see. M$ didn't target hardcore gamers they had a few games but no new ip's. i like xbox somewhat but they should try harder

[F3NIX DX]

let natal come out and then judge...don't judge before you even try it.

[keysy420]

sorry the eye toy for sony is 30 bucks and it comes with a game. plus if the controller are what normal controllers are that 55 two of those that 140 altogether when you only need one remote anyway. so add 140 to 400 that 540 ps3. then lets take natal and try to get the same stuff out of the 360. 200 for console 100 harddrive 100 wirless 50 live, lets say natal is 150. oh and i need a hd dvd drive oh wait those are dead. but add 180 just for fun were up to 780 right now and wait another year of xbox live 830 this is 360's 4th year add 50 three more times 980. the 360 overall cost way more than ps3 so comapring prices chavafix is dumb.and i can gaurentee you cant play use natal without a harddrive.Oh and the number one reason that no one should ever buy natal. because of the RRDof natal.. lol

[badkolo]

Im not paying over 200 bucks for something thats not true 1:1, while i rather have natal then either nin or sony's offering, i will skip right over it if MS thinks they can release a 200 or so dollar toy ADD-On that while is cool and does tons of cool things,but the motion ist represented on screen for your movements has lag.

Killzone 2 took massive slak becuse of input lag. So no matter how much better natal is , if they cant make it react in the exact second, perfect responce then why even release it, if you cant be precise by the split second like you can with a controller the natal will ultimatly fail as this holy grail to replacing controllers.

On the other hand, if this is all alpha stage, and ms nails it down to where there is no lag, to where it works perfectly, then my friends, ms had emabrked on the new age of gaming.

[Saaking]

Project Natal is something that can be very revolutionary; however, it is also something that will be very hard to pull off. For it to take off, Microsoft needs the support of 3rd party developers. Microsoft just doesn't have enough internal first party studios to output enough games made specifically for Natal. Now then, I'm sure Microsoft will find a way around all of this problems; however, if a controller is indeed needed then doesn't that defeat the purpose of the so called tagline "no controller needed" ey?

[Shrinkwrap]

I can hear them now..

Ah. ah.. Sorry, but your going to need this controller now.
Ah.. ah.. Thanks for supporting Natal and Milo with your Ah.. Donations.

Ah.. Just because Sony has better Ah .. Ah..start on motion controllers, Wii will catch up.

Remember, Milo needs a new brain, so don't forget to send your Xbox points to:

Milo brain foundation.
Sometimes, Artificial Emotion isn't enough.
C/O Microsoft BS Dept.

[Xtremist]

...but only the combination of Virtual Reality with Photorealistic game worlds is going to bring true revolution for us hardcore gamers.-

[onanie]

that is still a long way to come indeed.

[badkolo]

Its as simple as i mentioned easrlier, either natal is 100% precise and they fix the tiny lag, if not it will end up failing becuase if its not 100% accurate then no one will adopt it for the majority of games.

If they solve this lag issue and make it true 1:1 then it will be the next big thing .

I love the way you can use natal to control nxe, browse movies, chat etc.. turn on and off when it see's you etc...

but who is going to pay 200 bucks just for that while knowing that its not accurate in games. MS still hasnt come fourth and dispelled this lag as an issue that cant be resolved

[Si-Pie]

I find this article abit harsh in what it says! I do see that natal has its uses but I also see where it could run into problems. I disagree that this device wont apply to serious gamers because I can see how this could be used for say an RPG. I dont think its worth arguing about though and lets just wait and see. I know one thing though that the Game Controller is far from dead and will be around for along time yet.