Microsoft: Project Natal Can Support Multiple Players, See Fingers

Earlier this week Microsoft let me try Project Natal in a hotel suite where test-versions of the new gaming sensor array was set up. Three times, I thought I found a flaw in the systems.

I thought the system, as impressive as it was in letting me play kickball with virtual balls on a TV and no controllers on my body, might not be able to handle multi-player gaming.

[La Chance]

Sure has a lot of potential.

I'll be a sure buyer if they can use this for hardcore games.

Cant believe some people like pennywise below think an improved version of the wiimote called the "motion controller" is sooooo much cooler, innovative, and has more potentiel.

edit : nope just modified my comment.
by the way are you the N4G police lol ??

[Pennywise]

This is way cooler! The camera can see fingers. Imagine that, a camera taking in footage of your whole body can see fingers separate from your hands. This is ground breaking. They should make this for practical use too. These current camcorders make me look like Mickey Mouse with big bulky hands with no finger details.

Color me impressed.

Way to stealth edit La Chance... you werent bashing Sony's motion controllers or anything.

[ActionBastard]

It has buttons. Using an air steering wheel is just...lame.

[The Meerkat]

Then use a plate, or an old steering wheel from a car, or the lid from a paint pot. Some people just don't seem to be able to grasp how significant this tech is.

You could even use a PS2 steering wheel.

[green]

Or use your standard controller, no one is stopping you.

[fear88]

This paragraph is priceless.

"I thought Project Natal might be good for reading big body movements but not for finer finger movements."

"Theoretically, I got that wrong too, Tsunoda told me, though he didn't have a way to prove it to me there. The stick-figure skeletons that Natal recognize us as did not have fingers. Each one had a short stick for each hand. I saw no fingers, so I assumed it could not see my fingers. There seemed to be no way for Natal to know, say, how many fingers I was holding up. If it could, then it could maybe read hand signs issued to squadmates in military first-person shooters. I questioned Natal's ability to detect those finer movements. Tsunoda said that such detection was possible, though the sensitivity would be different at different distances. He thought my fingers idea was do-able."

[Trollimite]

that $hit is impossible! some of the worlds most advanced cameras can barely track more than one face at a time!

and you mean to tell me natal(a video game console camera) can track 20 or more fingers!

edit: after reading mabey it can, but it sure wont be cost effective!

edit again: i retract my last statement that $hit is impossible

[ActionBastard]

What's the point of the tech, if I can just use what I already have? If the rebuttal is "Use a steering wheel" or "Use your controller", then those things are stopping me from Natal. Yes, it's cool. But I don't see it as practical in its applications as Nintendo or Sony. And don't forget price...if you think a device with 3 cameras and 2 processors is going to be $50 or even $100, you're in for a surprise.

Almost forgot..."Use a plate"....LMFAO.

[All-3]

Tsk Tsk Tsk... such a silly boy.

Seeing fingers as it relates to gameplay controls.

The camera in concert with the software programming that the built-in processor works with. The tech demo wasn't set up to include fingers in the software programming for gameplay control. Duhhh!

[Serg]

Sony's motion controllers aren't that innovative, but they can be used for hardcore games, as they combine a standart gamepad with motion sensing, please describe to me, how are you going to play an FPS, an adventure, an RPG with just a camera, no way without any kind of buttons. The Wiimote has been used for FPS games, but, it's the Wii, if Sony would show me a fantasy game where I can use the motion controllers to control the characters arms and do damage based on collision detection, not scripted moves, I'm sold.

PS: The on-paper prototype of Sony's motion wand has an analog stick and the standard gamepad buttons. I own all PlayStation consoles but if they really show me something hardcore with this thing, I would actually buy a PSEye and those controllers, before that the EyeToy was like what Natal is about to become, a casual toy.

[lokiroo420]

Sh!t cant even track a leg, lmao, track every finger, gtfo M$hat, lies til the day they are gone from this world.

[danofpaco]

Who says you can't use a controller at the same time natal is tracking your head movements, peeking around corners etc...?

[phosphor112]

I will create an example in photoshop.

Ok, the way IR will work for depth is that the brighter the object is, the closer it is, simply because it will detect the reflected IR light. It's kind of like how "nightshot" for video cameras work. The use an IR.

Anyway, this picture will show that the blackspace between fingers allows them to be "seen" while if someone had their hand together, fingers cannot be "seen". So while their statement was correct, it CAN see fingers, it wont be able to detect discrepancies in movement.

http://i735.photobucket.com...

[lokiroo420]

If your going to use natal to peek around corners then your not going to be looking at the screen are you, so that fails before it begins.

@above

so as long as you keep your palms facing completely at the camera you should be good, have them at a slight angle, youve got the glove scenario, again its too much to try to achieve, theyre blowing steam up everyones a$$es.

[danofpaco]

What are you talking about? Move neck to the side and the camera follows suit?! That doesn't appeal to you at all? All while holding the controller? I think they could do some cool things with this if used in subtle effective manners. I don't need Wii Bowling 2.0.

[lokiroo420]

1st how do you move your neck to the side, if you meant tilting your head, no i dont want my head tilted while playing, turning your head like i said takes your eyes off the screen, again no thnaks.

[Arnon]

We knew you were stupid, but not that stupid. Go to the open zone. You're junk is good there.

[SuperM]

Well it just so happen to be that even Wii-motion + should be better for use in hardcore games then project Natal, so i dont see what you are lolling at. Btw we all know that if Sony announcend Natal and MS announced the PS motion control you would be all over the motion control and say how Natal only could be used in casual games etc etc

[Spike47]

this is basically the eyetoy, just improved, it is not the second coming, I'm sorry.

[La Chance]

"this is basically the eyetoy, just improved,"

So whats Sony's motion controller then ????

[Xi]

Is like calling forumla 1 improved go karts.

[Raf1k1]

i'd say the Sony's motion controller is an adaptation of the usual motion sensing technology used for motion capture that should work pretty well with games.

I think both a great tbh. Sony's is better for use during combat gameplay while MS's is better for RPG like games where conversations with NPCs is required

[Omega4]

Fingers!?

I will be really interested to see how much this costs when it releases cause this tech seems way WAY to advanced to be brought on a budget.

Hopefully the reason they bought that motion tech company was so that they could make Natal on the cheap.

[Raf1k1]

apparently the motion tech company has nothing to do with Natal :S

believe that if u can lol. i certainly dont

edit: you are right though. technology sophisticated enough to sense individual fingers would be pretty expensive. maybe it can sense fingers up to a certain distance away from the camera as the further away you get the harder it is too sense them

[Xbots]

Is it possible to scan my penis & upload it to Milo's butt........

[Lord Shuhei Yoshida]

Foxgod kept pleading for that and I'm pretty sure he will be granted his wish.When it comes to pedophile gaming Microsoft delivers.So sad they can't deliver 1080p games,reliable consoles,good games...you get my point.

[Mo0eY]

Bubbles for you both.

[Foliage]

"Three times, I thought I found a flaw in the systems."

Kotaku's lazy biased "reporting" strikes again.

Hey look at this glaring flaw: http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[Obama]

no but they say you can see fingers, so apparently 360 owners can use fingers to do some very naughty things.

[KingKionic]

fingers...What the hell? Why does every person who demos natal got to hype me up.

[Sonyslave3]

I can't wait to see a Naruto game using Natal.

[KingKionic]

NEJI...oh my god...that would be they day i burst into tears.

[Godmars290]

How many 10 year olds do you think can pull off "ninja magic" hand gestures?

EDIT:
Considering that, I would very much like to see how Natal would deal with such intricate hand gestures *and* multiple players. I just can't see it happenig.

[KingKionic]

*coughs* well...im a grown man...and i enjoy naruto....

It would be interesting though think about it.

[Raf1k1]

damn, why didnt i think of that lol.

that would be awsome. maybe a game where you get to play out Kakashi's fight with Zabuza mimicking the hands and stuff :P

edit: 'How many 10 year olds do you think can pull off "ninja magic" hand gestures?' true that. im sure they'd dumb it down so its doable by the masses and maybe increase the speeed required to pull off various jutsu for better players

but that would mean I'd have to get an X360 :(
hope they bring out a version for the PC :D (fingers crossed lol)

[KingKionic]

lol a interesting idea.

SHADOW CLONE JUTSU.....that would be the end all of everything.

[dylantalon]

Natal will be a failure. it will have a lot of people at first due to it being new but then people will realise that its a gimmick. i'm a gamer who plays games for hours and i would never want to use this thing that has so many bugs and lag for precision gaming. people need to stop and think, did anyone see when suda was trying to show the bottom of his shoe or when the chick was playing the ball ricochetting game , it was horrible . the rest of the games were played in a controlled area away from the media.

think about casual gamers trying to play these games where their brains cant interpret what to do because you need to press the air to choose things. i can see fps or rpg games using the ps3s motion control because it translate 1-1 movement in a 3d space with keen precision but i dont see natal doing the same . think people and understand, i love new technology but this natal wouldn't compute with casuals and with hardcore gamers in their hardcore games.

ps. the talon stands for talented

[Sonyslave3]

If Natal a failure then what is Sony purple dildo .

[Godmars290]

Also a failure. At which point both companies move on.

Really wish people would get their heads out of their @$$ over this: motion control will not become a major, sole, selling point for either console.

Unless there are incredibly great games for them.

@Jockamo below:
For which to sit on?

Honestly, the way people go on about Milo you'd think "he" passed a Turning test.

[Dead_Cell]

Proven to be usable in games effectively.
Still a purple dildo though and I'm still not buying it.
Screw motion control,give me a controller with buttons any day of the week.

[NegativeCreepWA]

Fire Ball, Swooosh.

[Mo0eY]

Wait for it guys...

I predict within the next 30 minutes, there will be another praise Natal page.

[Jockamo]

I only need Milo to recognize my middle finger.

[Raf1k1]

theres always one isnt there

[Xi]

the ability to display your mangina.

[Jockamo]

.

[danofpaco]

I'm stoked to see what they can do with Natal, but your comment made me lol.

:-)

[dylantalon]

sony's motion control worked with precision with all their tech demos live on a stage infront of millions of people , natal didnt. did anyone noticed how a lot of natal 's demoing went on behind closed doors after the big unveiling at E3? why was that? arent they suppose to show it live to the public and have the public see that it works instead having a controlled media write about how it works when first impressions to the public saw it failed. sony's controller worked and can be used very soon , natal cannot . natal failed and lagged during its unveiling , sony's controller didnt.

ps. the talon stands for talented

[Xi]

Natal was shown behind closed doors, but they also had a live demonstration, painting, riochet etc. But they also had a closed door version showing off burnout being used by it.

Where was sony's motion controls? Why didn't thay have any behind closed doors look at the product? Sure they also showed a tech demo but why not also provide closed door access?

As far as I know, more people actually got the chance to use natal over the ps3 motion controls.

PS, talon doesn't stand for talented... maybe talen?

[pshizle]

using Natal!

[Xi]

Hand gestures to make fireballs, grow tree's etc, would be so fun.

[aldesko]

But can it see THROUGH fingers like in the vid where the kid holds up his skateboard and it scans the whole thing, even though his hands were covering up parts of it? =P

[ChozenWoan]

most people didn't notice that as well. They just eat up marketing magic and begin to worship the guy with the "Boomstick".

[Xi]

maybe you just scan things twice, with your hands in different positions.

[beans]

There were a few people calling me dumb and naive when I made a comment about using your fingers to pull the trigger or scanning something. If you read this thread you can clearly see how cyodonianknight was unwilling to even fathom this as being possible. read his posts starting at 2.15 http://n4g.com/NewsCom-3400...

You see I'm just a gamer hyped up about this tech and don't think anybody should be ridiculed for getting excited.

[Xi]

I find the possibilities with this endless, and I'm extremely excited to see what they can come up with.

no one should be ridiculed for something they are excited about...

[anaviel]

First and foremost no one said that Natal was a completed tech. That's number one. Number two, sony motion controller and Natal are on two different levels of motion sensing. One's a controller the other is a motion sensing camera that can recognize verbal as well as body movement. WITHOUT A CONTROLLER!!!! So to compare the two is silly to me bacause they don't compare. This technology is not new...trust me this kind of tech is used in border control and Homeland Security. They are just trying to apply it to gaming which is great and to downplay and say it won't work when it's only a demo is ridiculus!!!! Another fanboy reasoning because if Sony would have come out with this tech it would be Heaven on Sony Earth!!!! Just accept the fact that Microsoft did it again. Mind you this camera's main focus is software for it to work properly and Microsoft is the world's leading software giant.....HMMMMMMMM I'm sure they will get this thing to work on a 95-98% scale basis. They have learned from the 3 red rings already and how the hardware defection rate hurt the sales numbers even though they're at over 30 million by now without the 3 rrod the 360 could be at 40 million or more. Can't wait to get my hands on this tech its a first day purchase for me.

[Billabong]

I don't think anyone is trying to downplay, well atleast not me. Just for games like racing games and FPSs, wouldn't you rather use a controller? Actually physically HOLDING something puts you more into that sort of game then grasping and swiping at air don't you think? It'll be great for Wii-like games though like that ball game and.. painting a virtual wall. I'm just going to have to say it buy i'm sorry but I just don't see the point in this for games.

At above - Sony's controller is focused more on precision, like holding a sword for instance.. can Natal pick up that the person is holding a sword with nothing there? Sure Natal can do different things, and so can Sony's hardware... I'm not downplaying. Also to the lame as people saying 'purple dildo', sure its funny - bit.. well.. childish - but thats a bloody protoype, nothing more. Get over yourselves.

[Bladestar]

lol!... I'm amazed by the limited brain capabilities of Sony leg humpers...

They say, "How can this be use with shooters!? I mean.. it does not have triggers or buttons..." ummm... because it can detect finger movements... so, instead of having to require a remote and buttons... it can detect that you pressed your trigger finger and shoot... how simple ehh?

What about grenades and other things? well.. that the funny thing.. this can be done by developers in various ways... they can code conditions where depending how you hold you hands you can switch weapons like shotguns, pistols, refile, etc... hell. or they can you voice recognition.

[Andronicus]

"he thought my idea was doable".....lol