260°

Before its time? Valve explains Left 4 Dead sequel to Ars

When Left 4 Dead 2 was announced at Microsoft's press conference, the reaction was less than kind. Fans felt betrayed by the quick turnaround for the sequel, and they made their feelings known. Chet Faliszek sits down with Ars to explain the decision.

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arstechnica.com
GiantEnemyCrab5854d ago (Edited 5854d ago )

Once again, Valve and it's dev's are talking to the PC market but completely ignore the 360 fans who dropped full price on this bad boy and got no updates, no support until the recent add-on. The game was barren for content so why in the world would I go out and buy it again to only have you not support it, not bring any maps out and then release L4D3 next year?

360 gamers can't take advantage of the SDK so they rely on you Valve to bring them the maps. What happened to the promises of taking the best community stuff and releasing it on Live?

"The game will ship with five new campaigns"

Again, an already thin game right out of the gate. 5 new campaigns is NOT ENOUGH FOR WHAT YOU CHARGE! I don't care if the AI director makes it different the environments get boring after months of playing the same 5.

/rant

CaseyRyback_CPO5854d ago

Folks deserve to get raped for a few reasons here:

1. Valve's half as$ old dated engine, making a MOD and calling it $60.00
2. Terrible A.I - buh buh you have to play co-op with fri... Yes exactly.. terrible ai.
3. No Mod Support

Which was all known when claiming the game was so amazing and phenomenal... second to none, yadda yadda.

Much like DLC rape from Capcom, third party is going to continue to do this because of the lack of anything else to play.. folks will continue to buy it. I've made a list of developers im never buying games from again. Slant6 is on that list along with valve and others.

All they need to do is do new cut scenes, and use the same old ass engine that they've been using all this time with amazing new features like grain and flashlights. Its the same thing Epic has been doing, but at least epic paced it out.

Halo3 MLG Pro5854d ago

ugh! I swear people complain to much.

uxo225854d ago

I tend to skip a rendition of a game when they do this. Unless something REALLY special (And I mean really special) happens with L4D2 I'll pass on it as I did with the last call of duty (world at war)

I have to agree with you GiantEnemyCrab, your rant was well justified, to the point that it doesn't even feel like a rant.

y0haN5854d ago

Crab WTF are you talking about. The SDK is really poor in its current state which I doubt will be addressed. PC gamers have to pay again for the same game, they have every right to be pissed off too. Do not want.

Vavoom5854d ago

Dude, how in the hell do you have as many bubble as you have. All you do is bash 360 stuff, b!tch, and Whine!

I will answer some of the question in your titles from you last ten comments...

"Since when did 360 owners/demographic care about motion sensing?"
What do you know about 360 fans, it seems that all you do is bash them. Additionally, the same can be said about PS3 fans, I've heard them bash the wiimote in the past, the irony part is now sony is working on a wiimote...haha

"MGSR & the rest of the sad 360 following that just got owned once again by truth."
The truth according to whom; you? Dude you are so slanted up Sony's butt that NOTHING that you say can be taken seriously.

"uh, what do you expect? 360-shoot-em-up morons buy anything that includes shooting"
So now all 360 fans are "shoot-em-up morons" huh? See it bullsh!t blanket statements like that the makes it so puzzling that you have more than 1 bubble.

"lol MS fanboys are pathetic im sorry.."
Yet, here you are stooping below their level and being a pampus, overbearing douchebag that expect someone to listen to you.

"after bungie said it would only be 4-5 hours, and stressed it wasn't a full game.. ill pass."
You have to have a 360 to pass. So, once again an irrelevant statement by someone that takes themselve way too seriously.

I try not to get to caught up into arguments with people like you, but you really do need to tone it down a bit. Your sh!t is getting way out of line.

BRG90005854d ago

When it comes to Valve, buy their games on PC. Solves all your frustrations. And it's clearly the way they prefer it.

IdleLeeSiuLung5854d ago

I swear every time I go into a 360 thread it is the same people complaining about something on the 360. Every time I go into the a PS3 related news it is the very same people complaining about the 360 that are praising their love for PS3.

Do you guys play games? How the heck do you have time to hunt down every 360 news article, complain about them, then praise the PS3 and still have time for other stuff.

I'm starting to think it is a select few that ruins the whole site for many many others.

Now if you think I'm singling out PS3 fans, just do a check yourself. Go into the articles and read the comments. It is as if their bickering will change anything....

Gun_Senshi5854d ago

crab gabe said it himself.

consoles are a waste of time. He said he just ports game to x360 because its similar to pc for quick easy money. Gabe Newell is probably the #1 PC Fanboy

lowcarb5854d ago

"2. Terrible A.I - buh buh you have to play co-op with fri... Yes exactly.. terrible ai."

This comment you made is all i needed to read before finishing the rest and wasting my time with your fanboy dribble. L4D computer AI when playing with no friends is way to accurate. This means the AI is actually very good especially when going against hunters and smokers. The only reason you play it with friends is to make it feel more realistic. Heck there were times I would play the game and swear the enemys were real people.

edit crab: "5 new campaigns is NOT ENOUGH FOR WHAT YOU CHARGE!"

And why not? Your getting hours and hours of replay value. I could see if you only played the game once or twice but playing a level over 50 times is worth every penny. I'm looking forward to a better version of L4D and will gladly pay 60 bucks.

IaMs125854d ago

Casey has those bubbles because DUH remember your on N4PS4G.com. He has tons of fannies to back him up when they need 360 bashing.

crck5854d ago

I honestly can't believe how well Left 4 Dead sold and was reviewed. I played it once in co-op with a friend (it took us 3-4 hours to finish) and never felt the need to pick it up again. This game was ridiculously short, running on a engine that dates back to the 20th century. But everyone kept gushing all over it. I never understood it, especially when some gaming outlets nominated it for game of the year. I was left speechless. I thought it was a decent rental and nothing more. Valve like Nintendo and Blizzard just seem to get a free pass from the gaming media in general.

But that being said I don't mind Left 4 Dead 2 coming out this year. Because I will just rent it again. Sucks for you people who bought it though.

evrfighter5854d ago (Edited 5854d ago )

@ casey

Left 4 Dead is a pc game first. Valve is not a 360 developer, so im lol'ing @ fail troll attempt.

There's another "who won e3?" article up here somewhere. Don't you have a company that doesn't care about you to defend? Or is the SDF tired of making people believe in fairies?

edit: before you start I'm a pc gamer (Amd/Intel Nvidia/ATI. I worship whoever gives me the best bang for the buck). But you know what the difference is between console gamers and us?

we won't pay for mediocrity. The backlash against Valve is proving it. I'm not gonna be buying this until it's worth its price. Much like I did with bf2142, Quake 4, and Unreal 3 and I STILL do not own 2 of those titles.

lowcarb5854d ago (Edited 5854d ago )

If you beat the game in 3 to 4 hours then you cheated yourself by playing it on a freaking easy settings. I guarantee you if you would of tried it on the hardest setting and played it the way it was meant to be played that you would of been stuck for hours trying to beat it. This game on hard can take anywhere from 2 or even 6 hours to pass one level with friends.

GiantEnemyCrab5854d ago

Thanks for the replies and I apologize if I sound like a whiner here.

Let me just say I LOVE LEFT 4 DEAD! Absolutely have a blast with it but it needs more campaigns. The game was sold with the promise that it was an episodic game that the reason it only has 5 campaigns is because more are coming. Even for a few bucks that would of been fine but we have seen nothing. At least the PC gamers will still be able to play everything that was created with the SDK for L4D.

The very fact that I am complaining is because I love the game and want more.

JasonPC360PS3Wii5854d ago (Edited 5854d ago )

There are some good arguments both for and against Valves decision. GiantEnemyCrab makes a good point about 360 owners of Left 4 Dead, and I agree with Halo3 MLG Pro about people complaining to much. PC owners of L4D should just shut the hell up. What the hell are they b!tching for? they get as many maps and campaigns they want. 360 owners should get at least 2 more maps for free to justify the price. I for one will give in and buy L4D2 because I love Valve's games but a few more updates would be nice.

All-35853d ago

Gsus keeerist! The poo-poo that you spout is hilarious!

5853d ago
kaveti66165853d ago (Edited 5853d ago )

Steven Seagal will KILL you, Son. HE will RULE you. Better not talk that way about him. Chuck Norris finds you in your sleep, but Steven Seagal has no problem walking up to you in broad daylight and cracking your neck into oblivion, boy.

nycredude5853d ago

Wow a developer notorious for taking crazy long to develop games turns around and makes another one in less than 8 months.

Proxy5853d ago

Think of it as a 60$ map pack.

+ Show (17) more repliesLast reply 5853d ago
mistajeff5854d ago

See, this is how I felt about COD6. I dropped $60 for a WW2-themed map and weapon pack and a campaign that took me less than 4 hours to beat. But this should totally be DLC, or a half-price expansion or something. L4D1 didn't even offer enough content to be worth even the $50 of a PC game, DEFINITELY not the $60 of a significantly worse-looking 360. From the sound of it, if they had waited and put the content of the two games together, that's a $60/$50 value. This is a huge regression from the glory days of Orange Box value.

And where the f@#$ is episode 3?! Lombardi said they were going to reveal it before the end of 2008. They should do another Orange Box-deal with that and L4D2 and Portal 2. Sigh.

y0haN5854d ago

At least it had some genuinely new stuff, the entire campaign, some of the weapons were completely new to the franchise, the zombie mode. Here it is just new models, weapons and maps and a full price tag.

mistajeff5854d ago

Yeah, I'll give you that. Though I have to say, having lived in New Orleans over the past 4 years, I CANNOT WAIT to blast my way across Pontchartrain and into the French Quarter.

kaveti66165853d ago

Why don't you just do that now. :)

Halo3 MLG Pro5854d ago

"The game will ship with five new campaigns, new weapons, new characters, new Special Infected, updated Common Infected, melee weapons... and a new game mode. "We're not talking about that yet," I'm told. The point is that this isn't a new coat of paint and a new level or two; this is a full sequel."

Well there you have it. I swear you guys complain like lil whiny kids. If you don't like it, than don't buy it. I'm more than excited for this.

LCF5854d ago

Well we know your standards are low. Valve and Gabe himself stated many of times how consoles are weak and inferior all they way back to the mid 90's. Valves ideals will change as much as they go thru game engines. To expect anything more from Valve and their elitist ideals of PCs is being delusional.

mastiffchild5854d ago

You miss the point, massively. Firstly, and I'm a fan of much of what the first game does, L4D itself was not all it's cracked up to be. It was very short on content and the SP was little more than training for the online gaming-but we were promised more in the way of DLC and mods from the community even on 360 where the game took a big visual hit.

Now to the "sequel"-most sequels come a good deal after the first game and as a result the dev has had lots of time to consider the faults of the game, to tweak/build a new engine, move the tech/gfx forwards, create a full new SP campaign etc, etc. Now Valve appear to be making the new game without any of this going on as there's just too little time gone by to do any of it-plus they said they would support the game (L4D) far more than they have(even wore on 360 where more promises were broken)but even then how much have they really been able to do to the new game in such a short space of time?

It isn't like Valve to rup off fans but this stinks of con to me. People are up in arms mainly cos they expect better treatment from Valve-but if they mean this is a sequel in terms of it having the same amount of content as the first game did-that still isn't enough as the original wasn't worth a full price release as it was so light on campaigns and SP-and in the end didn't even get the promised support. If by sequel they mean a similar package then count me out til it's on sale-hell if they have a proper package this time round and it isn't a purely online game(which we shouldn't EVER pay full price for, imo)and includes a real story SP campaign then I'll happily forgive them.

However, I just doubt they've had the time, knowing the slow nature of the way Valve work I'm pretty sure they haven't in fact. Hope I'm wrong, though, as there's a really great game inside the shrtcomings of L4D that deserves to be let out and a good SP give the mp a good frame o reference, imo, making all the online shooty shooty more worthwhile.

IdleLeeSiuLung5854d ago

This is a classic case of Valve customers getting spoiled. Every year we get a new Fotball, Soccer, Golf, CoD, Rockband and Guitar Hero game. do anyone complain? No. You get a sequel from a respectable company that time and time again have created highly rated games that sell well and everybody complains.

As Halo 3 MLG says, if you don't like it don't buy it. Also, there aren't too many games that get free DLC. Let me repeat that, FREE DLC on the 360! That is like winning the lottery as from the hundreds of the game out only a handful have free DLC....

-chaz-5854d ago (Edited 5854d ago )

@mastiffchild

Good points.

If I had to guess, I'd say that Turtle Rock had bigger plans for L4D1 but were forced to cut it back to meet their deadline. L4D started off as a HL mod and quickly evolved into a full-fledged game. This "sequel" might be the realization of a larger scale game.

I think that they are selling this as a sequel because they've made so many additions to the SDK that they can't patch the first game. I wouldn't be suprised in the least if there are some favorable discounts for the game on Steam when it's released.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 5854d ago
Death5854d ago

I only buy the games that are sold to me ethically and with my best interests at heart. That's why I own multiple versions of Metal Gear Solid 2 and 3. The ever so slight additions made the games worth an extra $50 each time. Don't even get me started with the GT Prologues. At least Polyphony is going years between the release of the "it's not a demo" demo they sell and the actual game. Yeah Valve is the devil and Xbox gamers are suckers...

-Death

GiantEnemyCrab5854d ago

I love the game I just bought the game with the impression that it was episodic and that the 5 campaigns would not be the only ones they release.

I can understand if they are looking at it from the PC perspective because there have been several mods made for it so they got a lot more play out of it. But for 360 gamers who have to depend on Valve to supply them they just seem to not bother.

I wouldn't say 360 gamers are suckers but I sure feel like a sucker on this one because I bought the game under the impression that the 5 campaigns would be just the start.

Clap Your Hands5851d ago

You miss the point (yet again).

MGS 2 and 3 were full games, sold at full price. The Substance versions a year after, just added even more for the hardcore fans and collectors. Nobody complained because MGS 2 and 3 from the start were full games with a lot of content.

L4D were basically half a game (4 maps, 2 hour singleplayer campaign etc.) sold at full price, with the promise of more free content to validate the high price... free content that to this date has not come.
People are angry because Valve charged them full price for half a game, and now want full price for the other half.

Show all comments (52)
70°

Top Horde Shooters Your Squad Should Play

The Guide Hall explores the top horde shooters that co-op fans should be playing this year before the upcoming launch of Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine 2!

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theguidehall.com
190°

15 Xbox Games That Should Make the Multiplatform Jump

While there’s likely already a list behind closed doors, one can still speculate and offer logical suggestions for titles new and old that should find their way into the PlayStation and Switch libraries.

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technabob.com
GamerRN455d ago

Single A games and live service games. Those make sense

S2Killinit455d ago

None of it makes sense. But its happening.

Ps5conehead455d ago

That’s up to Microsoft they want return on there investment. From buying up those publishers. That’s what there in business for. And they made a mistake putting day one exclusive on game pass. So now Microsoft wants to profit any way they can.its called buisness . Just like Sony putting games on pc a year are two after ps5 launch.
So if they can make money off PlayStation and Nintendo. They will do that. And I bet soon real soon they will release some aaa exclusives .and I bet one day it will be same day release

TheEroica454d ago

Sony gamers begging for Xbox games.... Who would've thunk it?

BISHOP-BRASIL454d ago

Yeah, because random site off the internet represents all Sony gamers, they have the letter of attorney and all...

S2Killinit454d ago

Lol what a spin. You dizzy?

AsunaYuukiTheFlash454d ago (Edited 454d ago )

We don’t care about shovelwares. Get that junk out of PS5

StormSnooper454d ago

More like MS begging to put their games on PlayStation.

TheEroica453d ago

Keep begging Sony gamers!

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 453d ago
Friendlygamer455d ago

Some of these seem to be exclusive for lack of enthusiasm of the publisher rather than because of deals. A lot of cool indies skip ps for some reason like katana zero, el paso, elsewhere and gunbrela

S2Killinit455d ago

Even more indies skip xbox. We know that right?

Friendlygamer455d ago

Quality over quantity, Microsoft got some really interesting and curated niche games on their machines, maybe in part because of gamepass

S2Killinit454d ago

Quality and MS are not things you bring up in same sentence.

shinoff2183455d ago (Edited 455d ago )

Alot of indies skip xbox to. It goes round and round. Personally I think your off base on that but no need to have the argument.

Friendlygamer454d ago

Between katana zero, valheim, Battletech, el passo... I don't feel off base. maybe ps got a million of light novel games that will never release on Xbox but like I've said, I'm talking about niche games highlights, the 10%.

  Heck, it's probably thanks to Microsoft that the s.t.a.l.k.e.r games came to console ps included, meanwhile Sony backwards compatibility continues to be extremely anemic.

And I'm sure most ps5 users are happy to ignore these games and just play wathever new 3rd person action game is trending but it's cool that Microsoft gives some love to smaller audiences and software preservation

shinoff2183454d ago

Again your off base just to be snide. All it's showing though is your ignorance.

One light novels wtf is that even. Ps has plenty of pretty damn good indies.

Speaking of indies and ms being responsible. You know F.I.S.T. of course you do alot of you guys just support gamepass. Well here's a history of Sony being responsible for helping indies. Look up the China project from Sony.

Lastly lol your ignorance showing again. Sony has plenty of games. Personally third person is better then first anyway but that's besides the point. Sony gets so many games that xbox doesn't get because yall don't support the games. Jrpgs being a great example. I personally am not into every Sony first party game. Alot of us aren't. On the other side you don't get to eat often so you gobble up everything. Me personally God of War not my cup, etc. For me I'm into jrpgs and ms just can't touch Sony on those. Again because the Xbox base doesn't support it. Devs dont wanna waste their time or money. Hit me up when falcom develops a game over there.

Speaking of third person narrative games. Aren't yall drooling over hellblade 2. The first one was Sony exclusive at one point. Another not my cup game. Showing we don't have to fall in line and agree we love everything Sony puts out. The facts are they sell though unlike elsewhere(not nintendo)

StormSnooper454d ago

You are same person as GamerRN, yes?

Abnor_Mal455d ago

They really think PlayStation fans would want to play Redfall? Pfft.

Personally nothing on that list would be any game I’d want to play.

TwoPicklesGood455d ago

I’d absolutely love Hellblade 2, Palworld, and Quantum Break on ps5 as I’m sure tons of others would too. There’s nothing wrong with wanting games from another console and its sad that people try to act like they aren’t interested in them.

shinoff2183454d ago

While indont agree with the games. I agree with the point. Your not wrong.

DarXyde455d ago

Sunset Overdrive makes very good sense. Palworld might.

Don't know about the others. Hellblade II does make sense given the original launched on PS4 first. Quantum Break was a massive letdown for me. I absolutely hated the whole TV show thing and I don't think anyone should have to relive that on modern hardware.

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170°

Valve Made Left 4 Dead 2 Because The First Game Was A Broken Mess

Left 4 Dead lead Chet Faliszek describes the original Left 4 Dead game as "such a broken thing that nobody wanted to touch it."

ZycoFox567d ago

And then couldn't be arsed to make a third game.

If they can add a lot more stuff to a 2nd game in just 1 year why didn't they make a third game a few years later with tons of stuff extra? Because that shows they could've.

I know Source 2 was kind of broken and was a reason they cancelled L4D3 but it seems wasteful to just toss it away.

Don't know what Valve were thinking.. it's like nobody wanted to fix the issues to get going. They certainly aren't the Valve of 2004 that released fun games with pretty cutting edge graphics.

cthulhucultist565d ago

Valve is allergic to number 3 it seems. It would be easier for them to release a Left 4 Dead 2.5 enhanced version instead of releasing a game with "3" slapped on its title.

rakentaja564d ago

They stopped making games a long time ago. Steam brings in so much money that it's really not worth the effort. Nowadays, people only look for faults in games, and spend more time whining on Twitter/X than playing the game anyway. Valve says a big fat no-no.

anast565d ago

Value is the Blockbuster of video games. They have no need to invest in deving a game, when they can make handfuls of cash renting them.

-Foxtrot566d ago

What are they talking about? Seemed pretty alright to me at launch it just wasn't supported the way Valve promised us

They should have just worked on a revamp / massive update to the game but they didn't they jumped straight to a sequel with brand new characters despite having some sort, if small, story about where the original survivors were heading.

I didn't care for the direction they took the sequel, the original games tone and atmosphere was missing in the second game and is still unmatched. Daytime levels, more whackiness, melee weapons where you could attack a Tank with a frying pan...just wasn't the same to be honest and the new survivors just didn't hold up the originals.

Here's my speculation. I think they did a sequel because they didn't want to update a game co-developed by Turtle Rock, they wanted the franchise to be known as a Valve game only and knew if they updated the first one Turtle Rocks name would still linger on it.

shaenoide565d ago

I want broken games like L4D all day long...

GhostScholar565d ago

Well the first game was by far the best

Show all comments (12)