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Report: 360's DVD format falling behind?

Three and a half years since it launched, the Xbox 360's modest DVD format is now struggling to keep up with demands of modern game development, and the solution may not be as simple as "put disc 2 in tray".

Forza 3 will soon ship on two 360 discs, with one holding the core product and another hosting additional content. However, news site Joystiq reports that, because of the two-disc set-up, not all 360 owners will be able to access all the game's content.

At the same time, questions are being placed on whether Metal Gear Rising will be able to fit on a single dual-layer DVD; Kojima once infamously stated that Sony's Blu-ray format wasn't big enough to fit in everything MGS4 had to offer.

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The_Zeitgeist3426d ago

Man people are get lazy these days if changing a CD is such a big deal. Anyone ever play D2 on Dreamcast? 4 DISCS!!! Never once did I have a problem changing them. Oh well I have a PS3 so what do I care.

Muhahahaha

Shadow Flare3426d ago

But back then when you had to change discs, you HAD to because there was no better format. But this gen, microsoft thought that save a few bucks at the sacrifice of game quality and stayed with an old format

Gamertags3426d ago

If you look at the capabilities of the 360, clearly the dvd format isn't hindering gaming what so ever! Nuff said folks and you all can argue all you want!

One of the few grownups on this site has spoken!

Lou-Cipher3426d ago

Its not that it is a problem to change a disc.

The problem is that game developers have to pay big money for a game to have more than one disc, and they would rather cut parts of their story or cut pieces of content out of their game, before they would be willing to spend big bucks for a second or third disc.

If Kojima made MGS4(360 version) exactly like the PS3 version it would take over six DVD's to do it, and at that price their would be no profit for the game, or he could cut content or storyline to reduce the footprint.

I'm sure there are several games that had to be gimped because of the DVD. How many games would have more content or a bigger story? We will probably never know, but if Microsoft would of launched with either HD-DVD or Blu-Ray then alot of multiplatform & 360 exclusives would have the option to be not only much bigger in scale ,but also have better graphics, better Sound, and more content.

Plus, there are certain games that just wont work with multiple discs.

I know why people defend the 360, but I will never understand why people will say the DVD is good enough this generation.(it is a big slap in the face for developers)

Gun_Senshi3426d ago

lets see if you can play GTA V with 2 DVDs switching dvds as soon as you enter new area.

Or lets see if you have to switch DVDs in Forza 3 just to load a car.

In Linear JRPGS Multiple disks are ok. In open ended or racing game? they cannot work unless like GT2 one is arcade and one is gt mode.

somekindofmike3426d ago

If you read the article you would realise it's not just a case of switching disks! one disk is installed on the system, and the other disk is the main disk! meaning people with 20gb systems and not much free space! or people with arcade systems without a hard drive.

They won't be able to access the full features of the game.

It's not about simple swapping disks, that wouldn't be as bad.

Silellak3426d ago

A "few bucks"? Are you kidding? Microsoft was in a tough place regarding their format choice. They wanted to launch before Sony to gain a tactical advantage, and clearly that is proving to have been the correct choice. Given that the PS3 was $500-600 on release - a YEAR later - almost entirely because of the cost of HD media technology, how much do you think the 360 would've cost if they'd included an HD media drive a year before that? $600 at a minimum. That price would've been suicide for Microsoft.

They made the right call going with DVD9, simply because the other options (delay until the technology is cheaper, release at a ridiculous price point) are all quite likely to lead to a scenario in which the 360 fails very, very quickly. The big mistake they made, I think, was releasing a 360 SKU with no hard drive, thus limiting developers in more ways than just the size of the disk format.

Darkeyes3426d ago

It's not only about changing the disc, it's also about royalty which M$ charges per disc. If a 360 game came out in 4 DVDs, the developer would incur serious losses as the development cost increases + paying royalty per disc to M$... You see how it hinders the process of bigger games showing up... No dev wants to incur losses and so follows the safe path... lessen the scope of game and compress it. Thus games like GTA4 which could have been massive, had to be cut down.

This is why DVDs should go the way of the VCDs.

ultimolu3426d ago

Has nothing to do with changing disks. Games are getting bigger and sooner or later, developers will have to make the decision of either sticking with DVD or moving on to a better format.

But what do I know, I'm a Sony fangirl without a 360.

I can't be reasonable and logical. *shrugs and walks away again*

menoyou3426d ago

Wow can you imagine switching a disc just to play a certain race mode or to use a certain car? That's crazy! There are some games that just NEED to be on one disc: racing, fighting, sports, sandbox, etc.

This info is big.

cliffbo3426d ago

the problem isn't two disks! the problem is that you have to install the second disk on the Hard drive!!! get it?

MS just said 'fuq you' to arcade owners

SuperM3426d ago

Big lol. Arcade Owners wont get to play the full Forza 3 game because of disc size limitation. There is no way to deny this fanboys, the dvd format is holding back the 360, and the entire generation.

darthv723426d ago

MS should have just taken those remaining hddvd drives and retrofitted the 360. They could be internalized, reprogrammed to read game code and voila, higher capacity storage.

To little to late.

Shadow Flare3426d ago

Microsoft did what they did because all they wanted to do was beat sony, no matter the means and at the expense of game quality. Let's just say, i bet forza 3 would have 800 cars like GT5 has if they had bluray at their disposal. But they can't. They can only do 400. Because of dvd. But its all about sales anyway with microsoft and their followers so as long as they're happy playing sales

Defectiv3_Detectiv33426d ago

They would have released Hi-Def drives on all 360s. If they would have done so, the format would be competitive with blu ray, which by the way, is raking in money for Sony. Blu Ray has expanded faster than DVD did when it was announced.

Sure it would have been slightly more costly, but the profits from HD DVD would have easily made up for it. Just look at Blu Ray, it has over a 20% market share now - rising rapidly.

Until then we will get games like GTA, which are gimped. Initially, GTA was delayed do to difficulties programming for the PS3, but what really cause the delay to be so drawn out was that MS had to find a way to compress even more data on the 7.5 gigs a DVD9 holds.

Silellak3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Come on, seriously? Do you think Sony's plans don't revolve entirely around competing with Microsoft and Nintendo? Sony had the advantage going into this generation after dominating the previous two console generations. They could cruise on the PS2 profits for awhile while the PS3's price dropped. Microsoft could not afford that luxury if they wanted to compete. If the 360 had released at the same time as the PS3, with an HD media drive, at a $400-600 price point...we wouldn't be discussing it now. It would've been Sega Saturn all over again. You're damn right Microsoft would rather have a console on the market without an HD media drive than *not have a console on the market at all*.

Do you honestly think Sony wouldn't sacrifice "game quality" to beat Microsoft if they had to? I think you seriously overestimate Sony's loyalty to their fanbase. They are a company. They want a profit. It really is that simple.

Also, I'm not sure about other people, but I'm perfectly capable of enjoying games that aren't the most technologically advanced on the market. People on N4G seem obsessed with who has the best graphics in their games or the most number of cars in their racing games or other fairly meaningless crap. Just look at how fast the "Graphics comparison videos" reach the top of the N4G front page.

You know what? I'm pretty sure I can have the same amount of fun playing a DVD9 game as I can a Blu-ray game. Isn't that what this hobby is all about? FUN?

@Below:

DVD's never meant for the "HD era"? You mean the "era" that's been going on in PC gaming for 10 years now? HD gaming is only new to the console world.

LCF3426d ago

You are correct Ms. DVD was never meant for the HD era. 480i is standard on DVD. 3rd generation DVD movies and after were encoded with anamorphic codex but it is not native 720p+. Both these companies (Sony/Microsoft) made statements about pushing the gaming industry into the HD era. Microsoft failed at it with the X360. No HDMI, not even 1080p was available for a time. An optical disc that is limited in size. I made the same comment on other articles so im not going into too much detail here. Microsoft is not helping with pushing the gaming industry into the HD era nor is Nintendo. However Nintendo never claimed they would.

ShabzS3426d ago

just wanted to say .... Duh!!

Jsynn73426d ago

Wow. It is 2009. Technology has grown leaps and bounds since the Dreamcast. Right about now, disc should be holding a ridiculous amount info (I.E. Blu-ray). There should be no excuse why people should still be changing discs. It's not laziness. M$ needs to get out of the stone age and into the now. M$ is just retarded with the money they use. Instead of trying to find away to create discs that hold a lot more stuff, they try to buy exclusives from 3rd party devs. Sony got with the times, now it's time for M$ to get with it.

Shadow Flare3426d ago

What you did with your comment is explain very nicely why i believe playstation 3 is the best console on the market.

Like you said, microsoft needed that head start or else they would have crashed and burned. And to do that, they had to cut corners, aka. this article. But i truly believe sony is far more willing to sacrifice a few things to push boundaries further and be the more innovative.

And no, i realise the best games don't have to be the most technically advanced, but i also know that my ps3 will be able to push boundaries that far surpass the 360's capabilities. And i only have to look at their latest games to see that.

Case in point, that is why i don't respect microsoft, that is why whenever i come on n4g i trash microsoft, and that is why i fully support sony and the ps3

Sarcasm3426d ago

Wow, I didn't know about the Forza 3 thing. One disc is the main game and the other disc is additional content that installs onto the HDD.

But what about those Arcade people who wants to play Forza 3? They have to go buy a insanely overpriced HDD just to play it?

MS claims the console will be around until 2015. One thing's for sure that MS will bring that is never seen before by then, 10-disc games!

"thus seemingly replacing one of the main advantages that Blu-ray offers consumers; much more space for much more detail."

Instant 1080p sounds great. But it's still missing DTS-MA and TrueHD audio as well as 7.1 surround sound support. Oh, and HD extras (important to me).

But I have to admit, certain movies I don't really care about and just want to watch one time, I can certainly do with Instant 1080p instead of buying a Blu-ray version. So I partially agree that Instant 1080p is going to steal some thunder from Blu-Ray.

BLuKhaos3426d ago

"lets see if you can play GTA V with 2 DVDs switching dvds as soon as you enter new area."
You what's funny?I atually had to do that with GTA Vice City a few years ago and it wasn't fun.I loaned my copy of VC to a friend because his siblings messed his copy up and then they messed up my copy.So I told him to give me both copies because I was going to switch them with some of blockbuster's copies the next week.During that week I had to switch between the discs every time I wanted to change islands.

Godmars2903426d ago

And who'd re-buy these re-fitted 360s you speak of?

Cupid_Viper_33426d ago

dude, you keep speaking in a Hypothetical sphere of IFs and WOULDs and WOULDN'Ts, here are some facts my friends:

PS1--released in 1994, When Nintendo was pretty much the GOD of gaming
No sacrifices made to game quality, matter of fact, it had the
best quality, and best format even when the N64 came out 2 years
later in 1996.

PS2--released in 2000, when the Dreamcast was released in 1998 and was
the new wave in video gaming. No sacrifices in game quality,
matter of fact, it had the the latest data storage format, and no
sacrifices in game quality,

PS3--released in late 2006, when 360 was released in late 2005 was
the new wave just like the Dreamcast. No sacrifices in game
quality, has the best format for games.

and so on my friend, you're delusional if you think that after dominating the gaming market for 15 years Sony would look to MS and Nintendo to decide what to do for their systems, given that SONY itself is the best example of success when it comes to gaming. it would be like getting tips on how to become richer from a homeless guy on the streets (no offense to HOMELESS PEOPLE) when you're already a millionaire, it just doesnt have a sane logic behind it.

SO again there have been many instances when SONY could have just cut corners like MS and Nintendo have, but the route with the fewest corners cut has been been a huge success for SONY for for God knows how many years now. so I think you need to do some research before you go and start Spraying non-sense on here in defense of MS who's cut major corners at their Gamers' expense.

SupaPlaya3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

All things considered, what you said makes perfect sense. When you have to break into a market as a new comer (somewhat), some sacrifices have to be made. HD-DVD (the only alternative to Blu-ray) was probably not ready, and is too expensive to be included in the console. You either include it and price yourself out (don't forget PS3 launched @ $499 and $599), or you launch later and go head to head with the PS3, at about the same price.

Ask yourself, if you are the underdog, what would you do.

The thing I didn't like though is the RROD issue, you don't roll out a product with that high of a failure rate (I'm sure it is much better now). Also the ridiculous peripheral cost, and of course the cost for Live.

divideby03426d ago

so you are comparing the technology of the dreamcast to a 360...
yep sounds about right....

SupaPlaya3426d ago

What you wrote sounds like a fan's love letter to Sony.

Ju3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

MS could have done what others do: Convince with quality and performance. They could simply have tried to build a superior product and launch it at the same time. But they didn't. Their only concern was time (and money). And this is the result you are getting now. Its maybe a different mindset in different cultures.

meepmoopmeep3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Xbox 360 will last until 2015

:)

SupaPlaya3426d ago

If you look at MS's history, they are very much into getting a product out fast, and buy and or copy instead to innovate (they bought DOS, copied Unix, etc...) . To me, marketing is probably their biggest weapon, not innovation or quality. Just ask any MAC and Linux users what they think of Windows ME/Vista.

"MS could have done what others do: Convince with quality and performance. They could simply have tried to build a superior product and launch it at the same time. "

Yea they could buy the most expensive GPU at the time, best processor at time, 4GB of RAM, HD-DVD, etc.. But it'll still have to make financial sense.

I largely agree with what you said though. If you look at the current trend of computing, MS is slowly but surely losing a lot of its market share. If Windows 7 don't deliver, I fear for them...

callahan093426d ago

Well in all honesty, though, some things just can't be recreated on a smaller disc with disc changes. When you're trying to create an open-world environment, for instance, with seamless and load-time-free movement throughout the entire game world, disc switching is simply not an option. It'll break up the world and the gameplay. You'd have to establish an imaginary thresh-hold that distinguishes part 1 of the world from part 2 of the world, and you'll never be able to cross that boundary in real-time gameplay. For instance, in Grand Theft Auto IV, if it had been on CD's, for instance, you'd relegate each of the 3 main islands to a single disc. This would effectively prevent you from being able to free-travel between the islands during gameplay. Imagine being in a helicopter, covering quick ground, and then after a few minutes of flying being told you have to insert a new disc so that you can keep flying. Or not being able to drive across one of those bridges to the next island in efforts of escaping the police. Things of that nature make more disc space a very real advantage when building open world environments, where you can put in ever more detail and more content that just would not effectively work with disc-swapping.

JoySticksFTW3426d ago

with the amount of back-tracking in that game.

But then again, I put that on Capcom. They should have just added another disk to the 360 version and give Dante his own unique quest in the story instead of Nero's sloppy seconds

CrazedFiend3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Anyone who thinks it's just a problem of switching discs OBVIOUSLY didn't read the article. I'm one of those who wouldn't be able to enjoy the full Forza experience because I don't have a hard drive.

It's a good thing I don't really care about Forza, but there are a LOT of other games I do care about. It makes me wonder if this is gonna be a trend for other developers. That for me is a real deal breaker.

I don't want to be forced to put down so much money for such small drives.

Sitdown3426d ago

"But back then when you had to change discs, you HAD to because there was no better format. But this gen, microsoft thought that save a few bucks at the sacrifice of game quality and stayed with an old format "

Question 1)When did dvd come around?
Question 2)Where did you get your information regarding saving a couple of bucks?
Question 3)What games has had their quality sacrificed so far?

xboxlj3426d ago

Why are PS3 owners complaining about the dvd format on the 360. The majority of 360 owners are completely happy with there console. And if a few games come out where we have to actually get up and switch a disk every 5-10 hours than so be it. If you own a ps3 then why even comment? You don't have to worry about burning what 20 calories to change a disk.

andron3426d ago

Let's see what happens when these multi disc games are released.

Given the nature of whiners online over any minor issue, I'm pretty convinced we'll see people complaining. The issue will be that they will have to get a Hdd or a bigger Hdd to install these games to play them effectively.

MS didn't think ahead and it will bite them in the ass. It was a temporary fix to be able to install games. But when you get several multi disc games you will run out og space fast...

Consoldtobots3425d ago

the most ironic part of all this is that you would expect microsoft being the company with HUGE cash flow, the self proclaimed "software king", the self proclaimed "innovator" to have come out with a console that put anything Sony (a mere electronics company) had to offer to complete shame. That wasn't the case was it? In fact quite the opposite has been true to the extent that the quality of PS3 titles are starting to create a new sales pitch "only possible from Sony developers".

+ Show (33) more repliesLast reply 3425d ago
Shadow Flare3426d ago

lol when was this new news? A non-hd format for a hd console is moronic. But then again, its microsoft

xboxlj3426d ago

I guess being moronic is how microsoft became one of the largest companies in history huh?

potenquatro3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Your on an article about MS, and you just said you don't respect MS and all you do is trash it on n4g. Mods should ban you. Go play some video games

Shadow Flare3425d ago

I don't trash microsoft for unjust reasons. I just said a non-hd format storage medium for a hd console is idiotic. Is that not a valid point? Going back to forza 3, they have half the amount of cars that GT5 does. Its a point a feel should be made. But i guess you're right. Mods should ban me for saying such stupid things

Consoldtobots3425d ago

microsoft grew like they did because they were "first" to market with a cheap OS alonside cheap PCs. If Steve Jobs and apple had been more humble and produced an affordable MAC 20 years ago, people today would say "micro-who?".

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 3425d ago
Nelson M3426d ago

In a Game Since ?
.
.
.
.
.
MGS4

Haaa Haa

blackbeld3426d ago

^^^^^LOL .......

360 old tech..... and no games only multyplats.......

Defectiv3_Detectiv33426d ago

Start making 360s w/ 2 disc drives

Rhythmattic3426d ago

The 360's DVD format is even gimped @ a 6.8Gb limit.

So why is there a Question mark on the heading ?

bigj3426d ago

well evedentally Sony should have saved a few bucks because look where they are at with the new format.Yeah thats right LAST PLACE.By the time Sony catches up if they ever MS will have the NEW xbox and it will probably be bigger than bluray.Sony is good with rushing formats remember BETAMAX.

No FanS Land3426d ago

Betamax went professional and had better quality.

4pocalyps33426d ago

hmm that's news to me....isn't sony the one that are shítting out new games this year and next and when sony said they had an entertainment system and microsoft said that their system was for gaming not for entertainment. the tables have turned and now its suddenly all about entertainment with less games from microsoft. meanwhile blu ray is getting more and more popular and sony are dishing out more and more games. but yeah am still failing to see where in that sony is failing....maybe its just me i don't know.

Serg3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Sony is like a medieval blacksmith, forging a product that can outlive the customer. My PS1, PS2 and my PS3 will probably still work when the PS20 with mind controlling will see the light of day. But the Xbox 360 will be extinct short after MS stops production.

Well, many customers simply rebuy the 360 because their previous model RROD'ed, because they have a clan or friends with 360s and a big games library they don't want to sacrifice. Simple as that. I bought my PS1 in 1996 and my PS2 in 2002, in fact, the PS1 is currently hooked up because I felt like playing Metal Gear Solid 1 again. I know I could play it on the PS2 or the PS3, but it makes it a true classic experience when you hear that back then annoying, now kinda classic CD drive sound.

doG_beLIEfs3426d ago

So the PS3 launching a year or later after the 360 (depending where you live) is a measly 7 or 8 million behind the 360. Yes that is last place but once you get over 30m systems, to a developer the difference in install base is insignificant. Aside from that, how many of those sold 360's are duplicate systems for the RROD?

Then we have the PS2 and Xbox. The difference in install base between those systems is over 100m. To me, that would be something to BRAG about.

So if you think your system won because of a year head start and a paltry lead after barely 3 years into this generation...then more power to ya buddy.

Meanwhile I along with millions of other PS3 owners will be wondering how we can find the money and time to play all of the can't miss AAA 1st or 2nd party exclusives while you are relegated to the same few franchises over and over.

Lou-Cipher3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Would you rather have a 7-8 million console lead on the PS3? or would you rather have games like Halo 3/Gears2/Mass Effect/GTA 4 have a bigger better story, have better graphics, have 7.1 HD sound, with much more content?

The sales help Microsoft make more money, but they do not make your games any better than what they are. remember that.

It doesn't matter if Sony is in last place, what matters is the quality of the games that come on the system. Sony does not need to sell more consoles than MS or Nintendo, they just need to have a better lineup of games.

With all the 1st & 2nd Party developers, and the fact that we are starting to see more third party exclusives because of Blu-Ray, means that Sony has a big advantage over MS when it comes to future games.

The problem is that we as gamers (360 and PS3 players) have games on our system that don't live up to their creators full vision, all because MS and Nintendo wanted to go the last gen route, at the expense of high quality games. We all suffer because of the DVD disc.

Games need to get bigger and better, not stay the same, and I'm willing to pay for quality games.

Don't even get me started about Nintendo not making games in HD

raztad3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

I guess guy commenting first is concerned about his stocks on Sony, oh wait ...

As a gamer Im only worried about GAMES. Sony is pumping them massively and on two platforms at the same time. This is not last gen that PS2 was so far ahead of competition that the second place became irrelevant.

Look at LP2, before E3 it was THE EXCLUSIVE. LOL it's on the PS3 as well. That it is quite telling. MS gets exclusives (timed or not, map packs, dlcs) paying A LOT. A third place in no way means PS3 isnt receiving games. Just the contrary.

Back to topic: DVD is just old people. MS said (quite "original" :() 360 will last 10 years as well, but obviously it will be as a casual gamers console. Serious games are already beyond the DVD format.

jerethdagryphon3426d ago

the 'adult industry was the main reason for vhs success because they were cheap to make and easy to copy

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 3426d ago
creeping judas3426d ago

Personally I don't mind that Forza3 is coming on two disks. Would I be lying if I said that I wish MS had a better storage format??
No I wouldn't!!
But it's not the end of the world, Ill just pop the whole game on my HDD.

Godmars2903426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Except its not about what you mind, but what it says about a console that MS is saying will be around for another few years. At least 2015.

One that they've been pushing as not requiring a HDD while the HDD that are available for it cost up the nose.

Qui-Gon Jim3426d ago

I'm betting that in the next few years MS will have, with Natal, completely transformed the 360 into the Wii 2, where gamers can go to play the latest versions of "Ricochet" and "Throw Buckets of Paint on a Canvas." Meanwhile they will have released a new system that can more directly compete with the graphics the PS3 will be pumping out by then (at a cheaper retail price).

xboxlj3426d ago

It seems to be the PS3 owners who seem to have the biggest issue with it.

Qui-Gon Jim3426d ago

I think you're right about that. But it's also the Xbox fans that have the biggest problem with PS3's mandatory installs. Goes both ways.

Godmars2903426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

And what good is a Natal game on 2 or more disc going to do? How is it not going to make more problems.

You're wholly missing the point: this is about the 360's inability to grow developing gaming needs as it is now. MS can't keep introducing new console models - especially in response DVD needs, unlike HDMI - and keep calling it the 360. Just like they can't expect the general public to buy that new model when they already have the old.

Regardless of how popular Natal becomes, how popular you hope it becomes, there will always be existing 360 owners wont touch it. And until the next console generation MS is going to have to deal with that fact.

Again, this is ignoring the fact that Natal does jacksh*t to solve DVD9 storage issues.

@xboxlj
It may be true that PS3 fanboys have more of a problem with it, but that doesn't explain why the 360 fan camp can't properly respond to it. Offer suggestion like Jim that has absolutely nothing to do with the problem, like Natal.

Next time you and him might want to try new compression technologies, MS giving away HDD, instead of some new add that we not only don't know the price of, but weather or not it will need more memory that an Arcade has.

xboxlj3426d ago

What do we have to give a response for. The fact of the matter is that most 360 owners are perfectly happy with there console. And you have no idea how many disk Natal games are going to require. Also what makes you think existing 360 owners wont touch Natal?
Its fanboys like you that give fanboys a bad name. How can you knock a technology, which looks awesome, that you have only seen 1 time? You dont see 360 owners posting that the eye toy and motion demo wont work with the ps3 due to memory.

Qui-Gon Jim3426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

Calm down there cowboy, i actually do agree with you. I just meant that the Xbox fans are, for whatever reason, okay with multi-disk games while PS3 who are not directly affected by it are complaining. Just like it's the Xbox fans, who are not affected by the PS3's installs, that are complaining about that. You do have a point that multiplatform games may be getting "gimped" to accommodate an inferior storage medium.

I should also clarify that in my earlier comment i meant that MS's next console will be more expensive, but starting to compete with the graphics from the less expensive PS3. I will also say that i have only a PS3 and refuse to buy Microsoft products because i don't like their business practices.

And Xboxlj: I do, though, see 360 fans calling the Sony motion controller a dildo and a Wii rip-off, and saying that it works like crap.

Godmars2903426d ago (Edited 3426d ago )

I think that a good percentage wont bother with it for simple choice. The same way a 360 owner chose an Arcade SKU or a 360 with a HDD. The HD-DVD drive. Much the same way many PS3 owners choose only to use their consoles to play games.

But like I said earlier - Natal has *nothing* to do with the 360's DVD drive. The possible problems that could cause gamers and devs both.

Yes, 360 owners have choices, but if a game comes on multiple discs with one of them needing to be installed, then the only choice is to have a HDD. If not then it becomes a technical issue, not one of choice.

The article states that Forza 3 *might* require two discs, game engine on one cars and tracks on the other, yet most of the pro-360 posts refuse to see that. Blindly defend it as a simple disk swap.

Its the fanatic RRoD defense mentality all over again. With people praising MS for putting out bad product to the point they were attacking forum posters looking for help in fixing their consoles. That you've managed to confuse things says that such fanaticism in a hobby it has no place in is sadly alive and well.

Speaking of which, no I don't hear 360 *owners* attacking the PS3 because of memory - except that it has too much. That BR is a total waste.

Edit:
Honestly xboxlj, if you're so intent on defending Natal, why not try this thread, find out how much of a fanboy I am:

http://www.n4g.com/events_e...

@Qui-Gon Jim:
Sorry if I misunderstood, but like I just said, this isn't about choice. Just like its not about something that wont fix the problem, like Natal. I actually like the idea of it as a control for XBL, realize its value in some game types like driving - but its a total non-issue. Has nothing to do with subject.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 3426d ago