Kezins.info discusses Konami's '6 Days in Fallujah' and why no one should want to experience a realistic game based on the famous Iraq battle.
I know Americans died. But we killed more of them rightfully. Im sure there is some controversy that is undeniable, but you mean to tell me movies like Black Hawk Down shouldn't been made because some panseys cant handle the truth? Get over it,, if you think Fallujah was bad, you should read up on some of the war storys from the Civil War back to b.c. era. They would really sh*t their pants then.
There's a huge difference between movies and games. Why would someone want to experience realistic combat? Only someone naive would want to basically. You also cannot compare one war to another or try to say one was more horrific than another. It's silly to make a comparison like that or make the "they would really sh*t their pants then" comment like you made. How do you know what anyone would do or think?
I say let the market decide, if people want to see a grueling, realistic aspect of war. Then the sales will reflect that. Video Games and Movies are the same thing. Just different mediums. One's on the big screen, and the other one is an interactive big-screen. The way I see it, both media formats should enjoy equal freedom when it comes to creative licenses.
"I know Americans died. But we killed more of them rightfully." rightfully you say? WTF? You are a damn ignorant don't you ? rightfully!? That was an illegal invasion of a country without a declaration of war. you know what watch this till the end: >> http://www.youtube.com/watc... My God wake up! stop living in ignorance. Where is justice in the U.S. Did she leave?
So if this game has terrible A.I and unrealistic controls, then does that mean people even in real life war situations are super idiotic and you really can flip a 270 degree angle into a head shot super fast? I really want to see how big of a war simulator this game turns out to be, because since it's grounded so hard in reality that if they treat it more like a game it'll fail that aspect, and if they don't treat it enough like a game, then it won't be worth 60 bucks.
Fallujah was one of the biggest offensives. They deserved to die. Why? The islamist extremist released videos of the blackwater guys/journalist getting beheaded. Yea funny how people forget about those videos of people getting beheaded. It happens everywhere unfortunately. Tell me as a human that doesn't get you angry. We warned them to get out a week in advance, in which most of the smart people did. Bottom Line (I was not in offensive but I have seen the sh** in IRAQ) The game should come out, but at the same time shouldn't glorify war. Why shouldn't this game come out? Cod4 was set in the middle east in a middle eastern country where the bad guys had the same principles/ideals. The only difference here is that the middle eastern country is Iraq.
Tell me if it would make you angry if they invaded your country like you did to them. And how the f*** do you expect this game to glorify war if it's realistic? Almost all war games glorify war and make it sound like a great adventure or something. Now, with this game, we can finally see how war truly is : retards killing themselves and thinking it can be justified.
Invasion? I am sorry, it was more of a liberation. Yea, I'd be pissed off too if someone took out the leader who was committing genocide on his own people. And last time I checked, Iraqi's run Iraq, Not Americans.
They are making this game. The issue at had is whether or not they do it right. This will be a game. When you die in the game you still going to be here in real life. There will not be the same emotional attachment to the situation. However, they can put the average person into a situation that we have only hear about. They can take this opportunity to show what it's like over there. Many people aren't going to like the idea but I think that they can do something really special with this. The fact is that the horror's of war will never be transfered through any entertainment medium. You don't know what it's like to watch someone die until you've done it.
Yes I do want to experience it. If every other medium explores this tough subject matter, why the hell not a the interactive form? It’s about time that developers think about the cultural significance of their craft -- distilling war into mindless good versus evil conflicts can only last so long before people are attuned to a little more introspection. Every medium goes through this growing pain. It's healthy.
Sry to say but I am a bit against this game. a) I dont want a game that is purely based on propaganda that tryes to make this war justified by USA. Nor do I want to see american soldiers as heroes of this war when they clearly were not. (no one was) b) I dont want a game that is based on watching your Americans bombarding hospitals and killing innocent civilans trough their bombardings and forcing their way of thinking trough torturing. Nor do I want a suicide bomber simulator. No matter what some patriotic americans blinded by propaganda might think, there was no justice in this war, there where no reason to attack IRAQ, they didnt have any weapons of mass destruction (atleast not ones you could reach USA), nor was Osama bin laden hiding in their country. Sadam Hussein might have been tough as a horrible dictator trough our eyes, but for them he was a leader. G.W.Bush was no better than him when choosing to attack IRAQ, and probably killed more ppl than hussein would have with his remaining life. Theres no way to make this game without angering ppl. if its pictured trough eyes of IRAQs soldiers it would anger the americans if it would be pictured trough eyes of USA soldiers it would anger out every1 who was against this war. just making game about this subject is like asking for trouble. Call of duty 4 was differend, it based on imaginary terrorist group from imaginary country. COD4:s plot was completely differend from what happend in IRAQ, COD4 was more of this "OMG they have nukes we need to stop them" instead of "this country doesnt want to co-operate with us lets blow them up"
I'll not buy the game. Most probably it'll be biased towards one side of the conflict(guess which one) and I bet it won't be sincere towards both sides of conflict. Also it won't be as realistic as it is told now since it's some kind of backward advertising. "Oh, noes, you shouldn't play the game... But show meh da money!" @Edit: Realistic war game? No saves, no checkpoints, no health packs, no regeneration, you die: game over.
Do you not realize that the home grown Terrorists from Iraq are part of the group that attacked twin towers. No offense to your intelligence, but when 90% of a country is terrorism and they attack a building or two in your country. That is a declaration of war my friend. Its not like we didn't give them a chance to go away. We invaded and warned most towns for people to get out and leave if they didn't want to be involved. Terrorists stayed there and challenged the troops. Sadly they were ignorant enough to believe they could take em down. They deserved a bullet. Deserving of death? maybe not. The ignorant don't always need to be killed. Just taught a lesson maybe. Unfortunately society hasn't evolved to that point in time yet where that is possible.
Im ignorant? Dude we helped that country more then we hurt it. We killed an regime tortured its people. Saddams sons had a whore house filled with little boys 8 to 13 maybe even younger that got raped daily. They used chemical warfare on its population every time there was an uprising to over throw the government. I actually had friends and relatives tell me some of the gruesome things they saw over there. Kids dying of starvation and chemical warefare. Radicals going into public places and killing 50 or more people with suicidal bombs. Your the ignorant one if you think that we didn't belong over there. Sure the American government had their own reasons, but we saved alot of people from a government of pure dictatorship. BTW, im not gonna watch a youtube video of what is supposeably going on. Ive seen enough videos where they say the world is ending, obama is satan, and all this other crap that is just all in the heads of you retards that think you know whats going on when you dont even know what temperature is outside because youve been stuck inside playing video games all day in your grandmas basement. All of you guys talking crap about this game are the ones that are probably gonna get this day one. Its Ironic if you ask me. Most of you people are oblivious to whats really going on in the world today. There is so much murder and sh*t going on in your own back yards but your stuck in your own little virtual reality. There is death everywhere, and honestly , I dont care about this game because konami has yet to prove they can make a game that doesnt suck online. I would have prefered a Zone of the Enders sequel, but they are retarded, just like every other Japanese dev and publisher. Seriously though,, grow up. There are worse things happening in this country for you to be worried about what a game is made up of.
"Do you not realize that the home grown Terrorists from Iraq are part of the group that attacked twin towers. No offense to your intelligence, but when 90% of a country is terrorism and they attack a building or two in your country. " Your blaming country because of some terrorist group thats location is still unknown did a terrorist attack to america. Heres some info to wipe out that propaganda that your brain has been filled with Straight from wikipedia: "Prior to the war, the governments of the U.S., U.K, and Spain claimed that Iraq's alleged possession of weapons of mass destruction (WMD) posed an imminent threat to their security and that of their coalition allies. United Nations weapons inspectors found no evidence of WMD, giving support to earlier criticism of poor intelligence on the subject. After the invasion, the U.S.-led Iraq Survey Group concluded that Iraq had ended its WMD programs in 1991 and had no active programs at the time of the invasion, but that they intended to resume production if the Iraq sanctions were lifted. Although some degraded remnants of misplaced or abandoned chemical weapons from before 1991 were found, they were not the weapons for which the coalition invaded. Some U.S. officials also accused Saddam Hussein of harboring and supporting Al-Qaeda, but no evidence of any collaborative relationship was ever found." No offense to your inteligence but before you start to argue bring on some facts instead of random acusations. "I actually had friends and relatives tell me some of the gruesome things they saw over there. Kids dying of starvation and chemical warefare. Radicals going into public places and killing 50 or more people with suicidal bombs. Your the ignorant one if you think that we didn't belong over there. Sure the American government had their own reasons, but we saved alot of people from a government of pure dictatorship." Before the war or while in the war? Ofcourse everything was F*cked up there and ppl dieing to starvation because there was a war. The suicidal bombings happened started to happen after you invaded their country, why? because there are ppl who do not welcome you in their country, and to tell the truth I can understand why. The country is just so differend from ours, all the religion and goverments types differ greatly from ours. S.H was a terrible ruler theres no doubt about that, but that doesnt give any rights to any country to just invade the country, no matter what you might think your country is not the "world police" Saved many and killed many, not to mention the ammount of homes and lifes you ppl destroyed in iraq. Do not think yourselfs as heroes in this. There where no wmd nor where there any connection to Osama bin laden and his group of terrorists what so ever. So now that all these reasons that US used to invade Iraq your suddenly making up excuses on how it was because after all these years sadam hussein deserved to die? This war is just too sensitive for many ppl and religions. It should be remembered as a horrible happening in history books, instead of making it sound like a enjoyment trough videogames and films. What next? School shooter simulator?
i like d sound of dis game
Yeah let's not play a game because it's within the last 10 years. Lets see we should play a game that had 10's of thousands die just trying to take over a beach. The single worst day in American history remains September 17, 1862. Battle of Antietam Union casualites 2,108 killed, 9,540 wounded, 753 captured/missing for a total of 12,401 Confederate casualites -1,546 killed, 7,752 wounded, 1,018 captured/missing for a total of 10,316 Also consider that most of the wounded later died of their wounds. Since the US considers both Union and Confederate casualites to be "American Casualites" that means something like 3,644 dead, and 23,000 total casualites. Gettysburg was worse (51,112 total casualites (23,049 Union and 28,063 Confederate) KIA, WIA and MIA but that was over three days of fighting. Again it wasn't good to be wounded... there were nine wounded soldiers for every man woman and child in the town of Gettysburg after the battle, so getting the wounded medical care was difficult to say the least. Spotsilvania, Chancelorsville, and Chickamaugua, also were worse than Antetam, but like Gettysburg they were all mulit day battles as well. Fredricksburg was pretty horrible (for the Union at least) as well. Total Allied casualties on D-Day are estimated at 10,000, including 2500 dead. Casualties” refers to all losses suffered by the armed forces: killed, wounded, missing in action (meaning that their bodies were not found) and prisoners of war. There is no "official" casualty figure for D-Day. British casualties on D-Day have been estimated at approximately 2700. The Canadians lost 946 casualties. The US forces lost 6603 men. Note that the casualty figures for smaller units do not always add up to equal these overall figures exactly, however (this simply reflects the problems of obtaining accurate casualty statistics). So 6,603 casualites at D-Day are nothing compared to 23,000 at Antetam. The entire four years of the Iraq War is less than one really bad afternoon of the Civil War. So lets play war games that haven't happened in the last 10 years, because it upsets you. How do you think Veterains feel knowing we are playing all these games about WW2 and others. When all we care about is the Achivement or trophy. Grow up people it's a game and I look forward to playing it.
The Civil War was horrible. But do we have realistic Civil War games? Not really. What I am saying is that people don't want "realistic" war games. A realistic experience wouldn't be a very good one.
Maybe if they would be more real people would understand what real soilders go through. It's because war is violent and grusome that we hate them. But if we only see them are cool weapons and perks then we lose that sence of reality. I think realistic games are a good thing. I mean for COD5 the devs bragged that the flame thrower would show the flesh burning on the bodies. That sounds pretty realistic to me so what is the differance?
astro, who are "we" when you are using it, speak for yourself. your clueless bro, like this is different than any other war game where blood is spraying all over the place. people dont want realism, seriously, do your eyes and ears function?
If there were virtual war zones where everything seemed real, but you never really got hurt, people would be going bananas for them. People want the rush of having their lives in danger without actually having their lives in danger. People want the mental exercise of having to problem solve under pressure. Most people don't want to directly experience war, but they do want to experience aspects of it with out the risk.
I know many say realism isn't want people want or its too graphic of a thing for people to see. In reality most people NEVER get to see the realism. If more people saw it they would understand more about why people don't like war or why its so bad to goto war with some countries.
I can't wait to kill those evil monsters.
Killing is not a game, I would hate to take the life of another person because of one man's arrogance. I don't know whether the game should be released or not, I'm on the fence.
It's just too soon. Just like that stupid 9/11 spoof from Uwe Boll.
you think time will make someone's death less important?
NOw that I think about it, I would love to see a civil war game happen. I play Empire Total War, and I love it to death. I can just imagine seeing a huge field of 100,000 enemies coming towards me. I would crap my pants.
the 2 i know of are both made by Activision. History Channel: Civil War - A Nation Divided and History Channel: Civil War - Secret Missions. I don't believe they are very highly rated or big-sellers but they are available.
History Channel: Civil War - A Nation Divided sucked. Your better off getting a civil war RTS.
Yeah time does heal all wounds. How many people doing spoofs of Lincon's assassination in the first few years of him being offed would've stirred up laughs? We see it pretty common now to make fun of that situation even with a movie like Zoolander a while back. Honestly I could care less about realistic settings in games, because the reason I play videogames is for fictional fun. I'm glad when they borrow real life aspects, and try to make weight/motion feel right when you play, but over the top war stories are better than what the truth is. Truth is war is stupid. It's a choice made by a few behind closed doors that will effect many peoples lives. This game will be under a bigger magnifying glass than most releases, so needless to say they set the bar very high for themselves already.
Personally, I have more confidence in Konami portraying a “realistic” war game than a company like EA, DICE, etc. I’m sorry, but Japanese game developers consistently deliver a more believable, and tangible story than the vast majority of Western developers out there (excluding Bioware). Most western shooters are extremely light-hearted or even senseless… look at Battlefield: Bad Company or even COD4/COD5. They’re great shooters without a doubt… but no real story to talk about. On the otherhand, Konami’s recent blockbuster title MGS4, provided backstory and emotional points, and controversy in spades. Too bad everyone just thought it was longwinded and overly convoluted… Which is the very solution that I think a game like Fajullah would need in order to provide an accurate picture. Again Konami is probably a much better company to handle the sensitivities vs. Infinity Ward, Treyarch, 2k, EA, blah blah blah.
they suck bring on Fallujah, lets see what the US did to those people
Actually, it was mostly a US marine offensive first and second time. Not to take any credit from soldiers, but you might as well as hate on the marines too right? wow.
So, you'd rather say fck the people who were shipped to fight the war, rather than those who started it? No real soldier would do anything murderous, illegal, or immoral over there. They're doing their duty. WHy don't you go to Iraq? What if they shoot at you first, who is the murderer then? It's not like we're going over there to kill civilians. We're going over there to try and maintain peace. We aren't invading, we're upholding. We aren't going into random civilians homes and killing the men and children and raping the women. It's the terrorists that are doing that. When you've experienced Iraq yourself, feel free to protest. If you haven't, then shut the hell up.
I dunno. I WANT the game that makes me "want to throw up". I WANT the game that wouldn't really be entertaining, as such, but still be entertaining in a different way. I suppose the right words might be mentally challenging, rather than entertaining... I doubt Konami can make it, because... you know, marketing and all, but I'd enjoy, as far as that word can be used appropriately in this case, a game that's realistic. Or at least, realistic to a greater extent than usual. I think that it's going to end up as another generic shooter, though.
Well i hope i dont get PTSD playing this game. Jk Jk :)
I want to play it It's only a game so people need to shut up
I do not see the big deal of this at all. Like someone stated they make movies about this but its not ok for a game? A game is like a movie (MGS4 lol) but you control it, you help out the inevitable outcome. Now this sounds neat and i am interested. Not because of the realistic blood shoot em up, no but for the story to be honest. It looks to be a deep experience and i hope it goes multiplat if its not already. WAR will always be, where there is man there will be War. Its pretty much a fact, because there will always be differences throughout the world. Like 9/11, who kill our people because we are different. Thats why we invaded for all up^^ there who believe we shouldnt be in Afgahn. Im not sure why we went into Iraq really but Afgahn is understandable they killed thousands of our inocent lives, as well as a few friends of mine and my dads. War sucks, and its inevitable pretty much. Who cares if 10000000000 people die, ONE death is ONE too many. Game on and enjoy EDIT: Plus i dont see why people are in an uproar about it anyway. Have you not learned ANYTHING from Devs and companies these last few years? I think we are over hyping the realistically of how this game will be, honestly... its not going to be like you think, it will be COD4 with little more blood i bet and new areas. (Its just an example dont jump down my throat)
People need to be educated about the war in Iraq,myself included,im just not sure that this game is a viable avenue for that education.I know its 'just a game' but it isn't just a 'war' so its hard to just dismiss it as such,for me,anyways.
1- Not all soldiers are "Brave and courageous heroes who fought for freedom and saved kitties from cruel evil terrorists". I'm sick of hearing this. 2- It's just a game. 3- If they can show what war is REALLY like, well that'd be the day. People would see it's not as "cool" as in COD4 and maybe they'd start questionning this war, which is always a good thing. 4- Things far worse than that have happened. Unit 731, for example. They made two movies on that one and no one became... um... whatever you think they'd become. Crazy? Violent? Traumatized? I don't even know what wrong you think this game could do. 5- They say it'll be "realistic" but trust me, it won't be THAT realistic. Devs say stuff like that all the time 6- Transforming a military situation into a survival horror seems like a great idea to me. That way, you won't be seeing any bald soldiers saying "Hell yeah!" while shooting at terrorists who say "Grenada!" whenever you throw a grenade at them. It'll look less like a stupid generic game and more like an experience worth you time and intelligence, and it may even make you change your mind, I hope.
At the same time, you should get a MRE packed with the game. That way you can really appreciate freedom, mcdonalds, and a bathroom.
There are a couple other articles I've read recently about this on N4G that have been interesting too: http://www.n4g.com/industry... http://www.n4g.com/industry... There certainly is room for debate and I'm personally glad we aren't just talking about PS3 vs 360 for once!!!
I'll only buy this if I can play as an Iraqi.
Just give me a fun game with lots of weapons, explosions, and online play. I dont care if a play an iraqi, marine, or civilian killing both.
who cares if people died? we alll die. who cares if you fill weirded out by playeing this? dont play it then. in life you live and you die. being good or evil doesnt matter. doing what you want to do is how life is supposed to be. The quicker everyone learns this the better off everyone will be. Im gonna get this game and play the heck out of it for sure. Maybe thousands of years from now the human race will wise up and decided that makeing a little sacrifice and doing the right thing out of every choice you make will allow everyone to win.
I believe that this game is extremely offensive for alot of people especially Arabs since this game just tells the horror given by one man's will (George Bush) to a country to the point where world peace was impossible, the U.S. attacked Iraq for some oil and for false reasons without any evidence and ever since those soldiers have seen hell as they keep killing civilians with families and keep fighting Iraqis who are trying to protect the country. It just feels extremely dumb to attack a whole country only because Cheney and Bush thought Hussein (who was beheaded)... Iraqis didn't deserve this, you killed the man who you thought "will cause the end of the United States" and yet you still keep on killing civilians to achieve "peace" in some sort of twisted way.
I certainly believe that the Iraq war was unjust. We went after the wrong country and Bush/Cheney knew it. It was all part of their plan to expand our empire. I don't think that should be held against soldiers at all though.
Who cares if this game comes out, who cares if the US killed Iraq citizens, theirs other worst stuff going on in the world then a game coming out about the Iraq war. People worrying about peoples feelings lol. Since when does anyone care about any ones feelings?
I have an idea for a game. Josef Fritzl presents Happy Family & The Magic Cellar. For the Wii. Think Cooking Mama mixed with Wii Fitness and a touch of RapeLay. Of course it's a family game. Too early, you think?
Love the sensitivity around here. Just for a split second imagine soldiers entering your country and killing your mother, father, brother or sister because they are "terrorists" just think how you would feel.
yeh i couldnt imagine that y because my "mother, father, brother or sister" are NOT terrorists and in war its us or them and quite franqly im glad the war has been taken over there better than a terrorist killing my family by blowing him self up
there is no such thing as war on terror. it was just to steal the oil
I just give them what they want if I was so much weaker lol. Doesnt take a genious to see that any middle eastern country has no chance in hell to stop america. they would of just been smarter to give us a price cut on the oil and take the losses out on othere countrys by raising the price. middle eastern countrys want to fight for sport if you ask me. Or they could just do everything we say play by the rules untill they are trusted and are allowed to make nuclear facilitys and whatnot and then just blow us up lol. people need to start useing those brains for real.
Can we seriously start getting some real gaming news an not peoples thoughts on a game no one knows nothing about.
Estimates range from about 50-70 million killed in World War 2. The Wikipedia article "World War II Casualties" favours the relatively high figure of 72 million. Of these, 61 million were in the Allied side and 11 million were on the Axis side. The article gives a figure of 23 million dead for the Soviet Union and 20 million for China. These figures of course include civilian dead.
Make the game, slap a certificate & advisory notice on it (and ENFORCE that certification) and leave it at that. People who want it will get it, while those who find it 'tasteless' won't. Same with movies - I loathe being told by the nanny state what I can or can't watch (especially bad here in the UK during the 80's) and I don't want the same thing happening with games (although there are signs of it creeping in). Would I buy this game? Honestly, probably not as I prefer more sci-fi oriented plots, but I would like to make that choice myself rather than have it made for me by knee-jerk public reaction.
I agree that they should be allowed to make the game. I am certainly against censorship. Do I think it's a good idea? No.
I see that terrorist supporters like Michael Moore and Sean Penn won't want this game to be released... After all, we will be able to kill their precious buddies (the terrorists) in them.
Um...what? You're an idiot. What terrorists? What the hell are you talking about? Oh, you mean the "terrorists" that were defending their lives because some big stupid greedy American army invaded their country to steal their oil so fat American pigs can live out their decadent lives driving around their giant SUVs getting 1 mile per gallon and burning a big enough hole in the ozone layer to ensure the demise of the planet for generations to come? You mean THOSE terrorists? Yeah, how dare they.
Pardon my ignorance, but how is this game any different than "realistic" WW1, WW2, Vietnam, Civil War, etc. games? They are going to make games and movies out of everything, who cares. People die, so what. News flash: EVERYONE DIES. Zomg :OOOOO I don't care how "might American" you think you are, at the end of the day you are just as mortal as everyone else. I don't care what you accomplish in your life, or how much money you make, or whether or not you survive a war, you are still going to die. If you choose to take part in a war that is your own issue. As far as I know, there was no conscription for that war :P so you have no one to blame but yourself for fighting in it. No one forced you to go, you chose to go, so don't expect sympathy for doing something that no one f***ing asked you to.
and an obvious pattern has emerged,a roughly 50/50 divide in opinion regarding this game.Valid points on both sides of the debate,and some completely ignorant comments as well,for good measure.A small public opinion research poll? Interesting,either way.My stance hasn't changed,but i respect some of the views presented all the same.=)
I remarked in an earlier post that I believe that educating people about the conflict is of the utmost importance and that I,myself do not know enough to make an informed statement regarding the 'war'.Lets reserve judgement on who 'deserved' to die for another time,i don't think deserve has anything to do with it.Have some empathy and respect for those that have fought and died,it isn't a triviality to be used as a selling point in this debate.
Dig up a recent grave and you're a ghoul, dig up a grave from a thousand years ago and your an archeologist (simplistic, but I hope it illustrates the point). It's fascinating to see what people consider the cut-off point for 'good taste' is. Whatever the reality of the Fallujah conflict, the game will ultimately be one about one military force against another (I presume - I know as much as the next person but will be very surprised if 'civillian casualties' play a part in it). It's just like Allies vs Axis in any number of MEDAL OF HONOUR or COD games - Did we see Japanese soldiers brutalising POW's? Just because WW2 was over 60 years ago, has the horror of it diminished at all? Yet games in those series didn't concentrate on atrocities, they were about one military force against another - Hopefully, "6 Days.." will be the same and I really don't see it as a major issue.
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