New OnLive service could turn the video game world upside down

VentureBeat Writes: Few startups have a chance to revolutionize an industry. But if entrepreneur Steve Perlman's OnLive lives up to its goals, the company will disrupt the entire video game industry - to the delight of both game publishers and gamers.

[GEESE]

Never gonna work...IMO! IF it does, say good bye to responsiveness and hello latency lag fest!

[zaza126]

ya im not sure, sounds like a lot of technical stuff but if they manage to pull this off it would effectively make all consoles obsolete.
Im kind of torn between having the console there and actual copies of games and this new technology that sounds pretty interesting but perhaps not as reliable i guess
well either way it wont really matter until we get at least a better look at this but in the meantime i am definitely interested to see where this ends up...

[Twizlex]

Sounds almost exactly like this: http://www.n4g.com/industry...
Oh wait, that's because it is.

[SL1M DADDY]

Was Pac Man CE... Sorry, but whenever they say stuff like this my scptical radar hits an all time high and I get a bit iffy to say the least.

[HolyOrangeCows]

I agree. All people would play is Crysis, and that sending all of that data....

Hard copy for me any day.

[Rofflecopter]

i prefer hard copies of games to downloading. i always have. i dont trust the internet or my hard drives, or anyone else's for that matter. however, i do believe that at some point in the future, years down the road, this will be the way games are played. i mean heck, look at what netflix did to blockbuster and the other small chains around.. this may be whats next in the games industry (unfortunately).

[SupaPlaya]

but most people who have used a thin client/Citrix/Remote desktop from a server not in the local network knows what kind of response time you can expect from running an application remotely.

If people are complaining about LCD/Plasma TV input lag, how do you think that would work for any time sensitive games (FPS, Fight games, etc...)? It'll be excellent for turn based strategy games and RPGS though.

And what kind of server farm would need to be support 100 users? The hardware demand would be huge if the game is actually run on the server.

[Mikerra17]

I thought that if you compress things to much they look like crap

[OgTheClever]

The speed of light unfortunately limits this to completely replacing how we play games conventionally.

[arsenal55]

This is something that will work but its just you need such a fast internet connection..I can see this happening in a couple years when alot of people should have 5-10mbps internet

[Breitsch_Nieden]

in switzerland the 10Mb line ist the standard one at the moment up to 25Mb.

[dragunrising]

You guys must download a lot of HD porn ;-) Jk

On topic- America won't universally have speeds like that for 5 years. We are definitely behind when it comes to bandwidth. Millions of people still use dial up...:-p Perhaps the service will find more success in Europe.

[Twizlex]

I think the latest numbers I read were that over 70% of U.S. households had broadband. Some of the Internet doesn't even work at all on dial-up any more.

[anh_duong]

subscription based gaming? no thanks - being a games and consoles collector i rather own the games. a buy a gmae for 10 bucks i can play it for 100 years. and if the company goes under then you have no games to play even after paying years of subscriptions. i can still play games on my commodore 64 even though commodore 64 has been dead for years.

the day to day cost of gaming being beyond my control is not something that appeals. subsciption fees can rise.

furthermore, imagine inviting all your friends round for a bit of gaming and the internet stops working and there is nothing you can do about it. even some online games lag on my 10mbit connection so imagine streaming the whole game including graphics.

this might appeal some but not me.

[DelbertGrady]

Do you also carry around a portable compact disc player cause you don't trust iPods and the MP3 format? Maybe you collect them even?

[anh_duong]

soda, you have no idea how this games console work do you?? the console doesn't technically play the game or actually store the games. the console is just a terminal. it's like remote desktop access.

the game is stored and runs on a mainframe and the images are then relayed to your tv via the 'console'. it is basically an interactive streaming service.

it's like having an ipod but all the music sits on a server that doesn't belong to you. if the connection between you and the server dies or the company goes belly up your whole music collection is inaccessible because you are merely subscribing to hear the music - you don't own the music.

[table]

the UK starts installing some fibre optics cables. Internet speeds here are abysmal. Companies like Virgin advertise 25Mb but in reality your lucky if you get it above 2Mb.

[Sgt_Bon3head]

We have 100 mbps in Singapore along with 10mbps upload... Awesome or what?!

[40cal]

If this compromises my audio or video quality in any way, I'm out. I do like the sound of linking 4 Bluetooth headsets though.

[snaz27]

well it kinda sounds ok if it is cheap enough monthly and if enough stuff is put on there to warrant you paying monthly but..... i like having the hard copy!!!! i like going outside and walking into town to buy a game ive been waiting for!!!! i like to be able to play the game for years to come!!!! not when the company decides to pull the game off the server!!!! also i have to agree with the obove poster about the lag and imagine if they have to pull the server offline for maintenance??? you cant play your games then lol... hmmmm nah ill stick with the ps3 ta very much nice idea tho

[360RRODFIX]

no thank you.

[Kushan]

It's not really a "new" idea,if you google around you'll see people playing games like Crysis on netbooks using an almost identical technique of having the game run on a beefy computer and streaming some video to the "client".
It could work, in theory, but it requires a really low-latency connection, something I don't think we're close enough to. A 50ms delay on controller input could change the game quite a bit.

Then again, technically games like World of Warcraft already work like this. When you click a button in that, it just sends a command to the server saying "do this!", the server then calculates the result of this action and sends it back.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

In other words, this tech is pretty useless for our current connections.

[Kushan]

I wouldn't say "useless", it depends on a lot of things. If you live near the servers, it'd probably work quite well for most games. Maybe not twitch FPSs or fighting games, but Strategy games and such would be no problem at all.

[Microsoft Xbox 360]

Like you said, its not exactly new. I've tried this in my local network and I still have dramatic input lag.

[Zeus Lee]

Won't be a standard anytime soon,too much money to be made from hardware.

[Kushan]

You mean like the hardware that would be running this stuff?

[dragunrising]

The service is too ambitious for today's networking speeds. Once everyone has fiber or cable for that matter I can see OnLive being a success. Not today. I would almost compare it to the Dreamcast and its at the time online capabilities. Too ambitious and not mainstream enough to be successful. Perhaps Rearden Studios will be courted as a possible acquisition. I would LOVE to be able to play any PC title of my choosing. I never thought I would play Crysis and perhaps one day I shale...and sooner than later. Its easy to be pessimistic about the service, as it sounds too good to be true. I hope I'm wrong.

[Rob0g0rilla]

This seems like an early April fools joke. Too good to be true. Even if it was real, a fighting game like Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter would be pretty much a crappy experience or possibly unplayable if it had any type of lag.

[Phuck Sony BS3]

How would it be crappy?! Now fanboys fear dev's have someone new to work with?! Now we have fresh competition for consoles. Fanboys scared?!!

[Madgunner]

while i was tearing some ppl up at my friends house playing street fighter.. one of my biggest concerns with this kind of service is... they are just using publisher games.. what about first party titles??? Will ONLIVE have their own internal game studios and produce software to then upload to this server.. to many unanswered questions and lots of factors to consider before even thinking about calling this a sucess within another 5 - 10 years.

how will publishers get paid is...it benificial to go this route for 3rd party companys?... will they make less revenue?... What about Sony nintendo and microsofts games... will we see halo on this onlive... will we see GT, GOW, Killzone 3 -5 on this thing, how about nintendos zelda or beloved mario series amongst many other franchises that they make... if MS sony and nintendo wish to stay in this market and keep making consoles themselves for years to come... do we think that Said companys are going to just let OnLive upload the franchise that sony ms and nintendo make...

@ nix LOL i can see it now

Rumor: MGS6 coming Exclusively to OnLive due to limitless Space
Fanboys: R.I.P PS4 Xbox720, Nintendo ...Revolution : )

[nix]

oh... that will be the day when OnLive fan boys will be born! q:

EDIT:

or,

Rumor: MGS6 coming Exclusively to OnLive!
Fan boys: no way!!! they'll have to build a new skyscraper to hold the servers!!! q:

[Madgunner]

too true

[DelbertGrady]

You just gave Hiphopgamer enough content to make at least 4 new shows.

[TBaT]

If there is no lag and the subscription is around the price of a XBL membership I will probably try it out. It would be awesome to play PC games that my computer can't play, or even console games that I can just instantly play and don't have to go rent or buy.

[Zeus Lee]

That Sony and Microsoft would make :) ?

[BGDad]

What will determine whether it succeeds or fails is price and game availability. Oh and dont even think of having ANY type of tech issues or the service is dead in less than a year.

Interesting idea though.

[VMAN_01]

I don't know about this it just looks like a fancier version of Steam except thats a free service.

[AuToFiRE]

Umm.. isnt that called a thin client? and wasnt that invented a long time ago?

*wikis*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

yep, i was right..

[Pika-pie]

This is an awesome idea and could probebly work in 5 years time. Unfortunatly the list of things that could go wrong with this is ultimatly endless!!!

I would love to see this idea work but I dont think it will.

[plumpness]

founded a company called rearden ---- WHO IS JOHN GALT?

This sounds quite cool, whether or not it will work i dont know, unfortunately i live in australia and dirty optus gives me all of 512k to play around with despite me paying ridiculous fees of around 90 bucks a month!, so until i upgrade to superior provider (pointless now cause all the same speed!) i will unfortunateley not be a customer should this be succesful. However i do very much like the idea, the big companies will be sweating if someone can offer the same quality games as them for a paltry purchase of hardware

[mastiffchild]

Yeah, we don't know how this'll work out at all. Are they going to host all the mp mauches themselves and will that lead to those customers nearest to the server having a "host" advantage of kinds with less lag? Will someone with a higher BB speed be at an advantage anyway? How often will these servers be down for maintenence? Is it even viable til we all have 20meg plus connections? And then there's how much will it cost and how long will it keep games on(e.g Wathawk is still busy after a couple of years)for as they'll beed prett much all the space they've got to keep up with new releases?

Interesting, not a really new idea, but certainly a brave application for todays splintered broadband and we'll have to see if they can make this work. I live in the UK and the best speeds I can currently pay for where I am are a mere 8meg while down the road you can get 25meg yet there are no plans to upgrade my exchange in the next 3 years! It's this kind of random factor that might change whether this service works for you or not I guess.

[Mike134nl]

Apparantly it should be easy to port xbox 360 games for this service. Wonder if they will partner up with microsoft or sony in the future.

[heyheyhey]

sounds crap... il stick to a conventional console and PC method of gaming

[kratos-i-am]

I mean considering that the idea of cloud technology has been thought about for a while now (especially in the context of Office apps and Operating systems. Google Office anyone?) it seems really hard to believe that a small nobody of a business has manged to crack it!

And how did this revolution occur? With games... Wait a sec... GAMES? The most intense form of media a computer can run?

Hell we still haven't found a descent way to stream HD videos + music lag free (atleast where I live in Australia) how did they manage to do it?

Though to be honest I think they must be fibbing about something...

I am no technophile who know's alot about these things but wouldn't the processing power for this sort of operation be immense?
How many X number of servers would be needed?

Even if you had enough servers the power that would need to be invested into that server farm would be immense! How many X dollars would be needed for power? Look at Sony charging publishers for server use, and MS the same with live!
All of the above would add costs to the service probably far in the way more than just buying a dedicated console.

Honestly this service just doesn't seem to have legs. At least in the short term... He mentioned partnership - Where is MS, Sony, Google or Apple?

[Cherchez La Ghost]

cloud Tech has been in the works for at least 2 years now. The start-up cost is low. All I can say is read about Cloud Tech and you'll get a better understanding. I see MS have their hands helping the development of this before Sony or Nintendo. If you have the bandwidth and the money, this might be 360 & PS3 new rival. But I see MS somehow profiting off of this just as much as Sony has Blu-Ray. Check link below for futher info of Cloud Technology....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

[steve30x]

Theres no way im going to pay monthly to play a game when I am already paying monthly to use the internet. Also the graphics in that thing is only supposed to be somewhere between a PS3 and PS2. No thsanks.

[ULTIMATE_REVENGE]

i think sony should make its own onlive thingy, you know what i mean, make a the PS4 and onlive kind of thing, but anyways this is going to need 100GB of internet speed to play 1080p games on, and here in the UK/Leicester where i live we have 50Mb of internet speed, but you can buy these devices that can boost it up to 300Mb through ethernet and not wireless

[hazardman]

That would suck if developers forgot about consoles...

[TooL 316]

i read the article twice, and the more i read it, the more it began to sound like a one console future or a no console future. i like to own my games and this sounds like you merely rent games. one service no competition unless this service is licensed out to Sony MS and Nintendo.

[skimming]

Then why not just download the whole binary to the local machine superfast like and just have it play locally? In other words, superfast digital downloads.

Seems like a really really inefficient way to do gaming.

[darkside]

This is the worst case scenario. Is everyone will be downloading from the server OnLive for games and in the end with 5mb for every fame per second download or more. i can see my download cap be gone with in two to three days for HD gaming.

(((5mb download * 60 frames per second) * 60min in a hours)* 24hour in a day )= answer in MB then divided by 1000mb to get GB

That would be how much GB would be used in a day for this services.

* please correct me if i'm wrong Thx.

[GOKUNY]

PS3 to PSP remote play.... Not that (brand new idea) after all. It might work, but I don't think it will be as convenient as having your own disc, plus will be expensive, and as everybody else said (lag and HD could be an issue hard to ignore nowdays)

[Triple_A]

For PC gaming this could be interesting idea but overall this sucks.

I mean, think if the monthly fee is for example 59€... it makes 708€ in a year and plus that, you have to pay for the internet connection...

I'm not interested.

EDIT: well, apparently this OnLive thing is for PC games only, so nevermind.

[xg-ei8ht]

stewgart

You must have line problems.

I'm on 8mb, i get 700kbps d/l speed from alot of sites.

My m8 is on 25mb, and he gets 2.0mb/s

I'm in uk. London.

But yeah, fibre optics, awesome.

[ChilliDemon]

"A packet can make an entire round trip in 80 milliseconds".

Mmmm. It would take an unimpeded photon of light 130 milliseconds to go completely around the equator ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... ). Packets on the internet travel much slower since at the very best they'd be travelling as light along fibre optic. I can't see how they can guarantee a constant data transfer at this rate.

And 200x compression seems too good to be true. Especially if it's lossless. Don't existing algorithms trade compression ratios with degrees of acceptable loss. And if they had got a new algorithm with 200x lossless compression, wouldn't they be rolling in cash just on the back of licensing it and not need to do this gaming service thing?

I dunno, I know I'm a sceptic but this all sounds like it's a service built in a controlled environment and will fall flat in the real world. And I wish they wouldn't use phrases like "it can be sent instantaneously over the Internet". Nothing can be sent instantaneously. Special relativity says so.

[aldesko]

Yeah, apparently they can say things like that and the majority of people will be impressed since they don't know anything about it.

I can dl 250k/s. At 60 FPS that's an average of 4k per frame. A 720p video is 720 x 1280 = 921600 pixels * 3 bytes per pixel = 2764800 bytes = 2.7 megs per frame. There are many other factors, but you can see this would require some magical compression and (like you said) would be extremely revolutionizing and very profitable by itself.

[cpuchess]

I really like the idea of eliminating piracy. Software developers should really be pushing for this.

[takohma]

i dont believe it will work. only thing i find remotely interesting is the ability to spectate. sometimes i like to just go into a room in sc4, sf4 or tekken and just watch some people with skills. but if this is gonna risk my oh so beautiful exclusives for my lovable ps3 obsolete then i want nothing to do with it.