PS5 Pro’s PSSR Surpasses FSR and TSR At Lower Resolutions, Closer to DLSS3 – Albatroz Port Dev

Kyoday co-founder Ivaylo Koralsky also believes the upscaler will play "a significant role in the potential PS6 platform."

[ABizzel1]

PSSR is going to be a huge benefit for the PS5 Pro, but even more so the future generation of PlayStation. The next update is adding frame-generation, which should theoretically already be possible with AMD Fluid Motion Frames, of Sony creating their own solutions based on AMD FMF, and improve image quality in the couple of areas PSSR isn’t quite there while also reducing it’s footprint.

Then and only then will it be a DLSS 3 competitor, which honestly they seem only 2 - 3 years away from achieving that at most with the parts already being there.

[Sonic1881]

In 2-3 years, Nvidia will probably announced a new technology that's better than DLSS by then. PC technology and parts evolves way faster than the fixed console market.

[Eonjay]

Sony actually invented hardware based super resolution. It was called Checkerboading and it came out in 2016 before DLSS and it was hated on simply for being part of PlayStation. The inovation came first to consoles.

[UnterArt]

@Eonjay
While first on consoles checkerboarding comes from a combination of several techniques that existed on PC, such as TAA, DRS, SSAA, and bicubic/bilinear filtering.

[Einhander1972]

UnterArt

Those are software based, PlayStation had the first hardware based upscaler.

DLSS, FSR, XESS all came after Checkerboard.

[UnterArt]

@Einhander1972
Checkerboarding on the PS4 is hardware accelerated, the hardware assists in accelerating and optimizing the rendering process, but the checkerboarding algorithm and pixel reconstruction are mainly managed through software techniques, such as those I stated, which checkboarding is based around to even function.

[CrimsonIdol]

@unter I think you're giving checkerboard rendering a little too much credit, it's basically interlacing 2.0. just every other pixel rendered each frame instead of every other line, with some filtering to try and smooth out where it fails. It's a small but somewhat impactful adjustment to a technique that's been around for a literal century.

[Einhander1972]

It's a hardware based solution, it's more like FSR than it is like the purely software techniques.

[UnterArt]

@Einhander1972
There's a difference between hardware accelerated and hardware based, checkerboarding is a not a purely hardware solution, it requires a software solution that's accelerated by hardware. This isn't difficult to understand.
@CrimsonIdol
As I said, it's a combination of older techniques.

[CrimsonIdol]

@Ein. No, it's a software based solution that the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware for. FSR is also software. PSSR is also software. DLSS is also software. Also. The 360 had a dedicated hardware based scaler.

[Shiore2u]

Been watching this and I just saw Einhander1972 get five upvotes in less than a minute. Are you using alts to validate your own comments?

[Einhander1972]

"No, it's a software based solution that the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware for"

Right the PS4 Pro had dedicated hardware that the checkerboard runs off.

Nothing offered any type of dedicated hardware based solution before that. DLSS FSR XESS and PSSR all have a software component, but they are not the same as TAA or super sampling.

[CrimsonIdol]

Checkerboard rendering is not at all the same thing as DLSS, XeSS, FSR either though. It's very rudimentary by comparison. It does use a single previous frame of temporal data to reconstruct, like some simplified TAA combined with what is essentially interlacing. There is no AI, no heavy processing. There were dedicated hardware upscalers before this, though not as advanced, just like there have been more advanced upscalers since.

People didn't hate on checkerboard just because it was playstation, I'd wager they hated it because it was vastly inferior to native resolution (though for my money I think it was a good compromise) and trying to tie it in as some trailblazing tech that paved the way for DLSS seems dishonest at the very least, as they're completely unrelated. It was a good idea for the time.

[Einhander1972]

"Checkerboard rendering is not at all the same thing as DLSS, XeSS, FSR either though"

No one said they were the same, what we're saying is that it's hardware based and that it was the first hardware based upscaling solution, which is correct. It used dedicated hardware, which you agreed with.

And I would agree, that just like we see with PSSR where the same people who talked up DLSS are now trying to say PSSR and AI upscaling are "bad". Just like you are trying to downplay PlayStations accomplishments in upscaling here.

[CrimsonIdol]

Forgive me you seem to be comparing them to checkerboard rendering, when they are completely unrelated. They are NOT hardware based solutions anymore than anything you do on a GPU is a hardware based solution. They are all software that utilises the GPU. You can run FSR on just about anything. And again, checkerboard rendering was NOT the first hardware based upscaler, even if you want to call it that.

[PRIMORDUS]

DLSS 4 will be coming soon I believe in 2025, once they show the 5000 series GPU's at CES, should be a huge jump over DLSS 3. I won't be surprised if they also improved frame gen, as well, with even more FPS. Nvidia will be in the lead for a very long time with their tech.

[Einhander1972]

It was the first commercially available consumer product to have dedicated hardware to do upscaling, it was before Nvidia's DLSS, AMD's FSR and Intel's XESS.

[CrimsonIdol]

No. It wasn't. The Xbox 360 had a dedicated upscaler completely independent of the GPU that covered just about every output format with 0 hit to performance.

And those other techniques do not use hardware dedicated to upscaling. They use hardware in the GPU that can do upscaling, among other things. It all depends on what the software tells that hardware to do.

[Einhander1972]

Ok, we're not talking about image upscalers so a 720p game can display on a 1080p TV which is what the 360 had. You're just trying to confuse the discussion.

PS4 Pro checkerboard was the first hardware based post process upscaler.

[CrimsonIdol]

I'm not trying to confuse the discussion but I agree let's not keep splitting hairs about it. I see checkerboard rendering as an interesting and innovative rendering technique, that increased fidelity with some caveats.

What I really have a problem with here is Eonjay seemingly giving credit for DLSS to Sony:
"Sony actually invented hardware based super resolution. It was called Checkerboading and it came out in 2016 before DLSS and it was hated on simply for being part of PlayStation. The inovation came first to consoles."

It's not really true by any metric. But my olive branch is that I think it was a smart idea, and wished we had an option like that for PC at the time as 4K was still pretty unobtainable and I still preferred the checkerboard native-like crispness (I believe Sony indeed had some patent on it so it wasn't replicated on PC). not only did that innovation come first to console in this case, it never left. But it's nothing like what we know of as "super resolution".

[ABizzel1]

Most likely they’ll be launching DLSS 4.0 with the RTX 5000 series if they continue the same trend…. That being said what DLSS 3.0 did for the RTX 4000 series would have been revolutionary for gamers if the price of the GPUs weren’t absolutely outrageous to begin with.

With DLSS and Frame-Gen the RTX 4000 series GPUs perform 2 sometimes 3 tiers above their previous gen counterparts excluding natively being faster with hardware alone. That alone would be a huge benefit to any console allowing developers and artist to focus on crafting amazing worlds and experiences using the native hardware, and using software to increase the image resolution and maximize the performance.

Anything additional is the gravy on top. The next step for DLSS is AI generated textures and objects which will give more processing power back to the hardware and reduce in-game pipelines and VRAM utilization, and PlayStation may very well catch up sooner rather than later with such features due to being a closed environment, but achieving near DLSS 3 parity is the first major step.

[Shiore2u]

@Einhander1972 The "first hardware based post process upscaler." was the GeForce FX 5800, which introduced hardware accelerated shaders that enabled postprocessing effects, such as realtime upscaling. Just proof you have no idea what you're talking about. Stop using alts to mislead people, you are making people dumber by doing so.

[DustMan]

You can't explain PC to console fan boys. They don't want to believe somebody other than Sony can create something new.

[Einhander1972]

This is crazy I am arguing with one person who is so determined to not give PlayStation it's due credit they keep talking about different things and trying to say they are hardware upscaling.

PS4 Pro was the first device to have a dedicated processor to do upscaling.

TAA, super sampling, basic upscalers to allow 720p to be displayed on a 1080p, or NVidias basic display hardware are factually not the same thing.

Again, PS4 Pro was the first commercially available device that had hardware that was specifically designed for one purpose which was upscaling.

[CrimsonIdol]

again, that's simply false. Just stating it again doesn't make it true. You need to shift your goal posts quite a bit further to make that statement true. The 360s scaler literally ticks those boxes, and was a good idea (for instance the PS3 lacked this). And it's also not how checkerboard rendering worked.

[sweatyrich]

Immortals of Aveum already has framegen on the PS5

[CrimsonIdol]

*wrong spot*

[Neonridr]

except Nvidia will be innovating as well. It's not like they just brushed their hands together and said "we're done". Who knows what Nvidia will be pushing in 2-3 years.

[dveio]

Sony aren't quite a stranger to all of that, are they.

I mean ... they build top of the industry TVs and cameras.

I assume PSSR on PS5 Pro is just a "light" version of what they are capable of doing, but at some point they just have to consider the costs of production.

PSSR is a great improvement already.

But I believe the PS6 will kick the ball out of the park.

[Aloymetal]

''But I believe the PS6 will kick the ball out of the park.''
Yup, that's exactly what I said not long ago. Things are looking great right now and to think PSSR is in early stages so I can only imagine what they would be able to achieve when they release the PS6.

[DarXyde]

To add to this, Sony really doesn't get their due credit. Whatever anyone wants to say, they've got some very capable tech wizards in their ranks.

People say DLSS 3 is better and "wait for DLSS 4". Ok, sure. Agreed. But graphics technology is kind of what Nvidia does. It's their whole thing, and if they weren't on the cutting edge of the R&D, they wouldn't be a multi trillion dollar corporation. AMD dabbles in CPU and GPU tech. No one is surprised to see them lagging behind Nvidia in graphics tech.

But PlayStation...I would say they are unusually gifted with tech synergy. Nothing goes into their boxes without real intent. My favorite example of this is in Decima games utilizing this field-of-vision rendering (similar to foveated rendering in VR). If you don't know what that is, it basically means anything your camera is not facing is rendered at a much lower resolution until you look in that direction (e.g., while playing Horizon, moving the camera means anything off screen is rendered less or not at all). A genius resource saver. Then what did they do? They made the PS5 with this technology in mind, and the super fast SSD really complements this technology well. Great results and it shows Sony is thinking big picture with their hardware optimization. Even now, PSSR takes a load off the GPU and allows Pro to do other things by rendering at a lower resolution and letting the AI do its thing—a natural evolution of checkerboard rendering.

Given that this is their first foray into AI upscaling, the results are excellent. It makes you wonder how they design hardware around accommodating PSSR in PS6. Personally, I think we're getting something very comparable to DLSS4.

[rlow1]

Interesting conversations, but what I’m concerned about is the actual cost of development which jumps every generation. Which leads to less innovation. How has any of these techniques led to greater innovation and cheaper development costs? Where are all the innovative titles this generation?

We always talk about resolution and bigger worlds. But that same record has been playing since day one. I would instead be more excited for physics innovations or the like. I do think Sony has the right idea with their controllers and interacting in game. But it’s not used enough. A.I. Npc can bring some great change.

I really hope next gen will focus on real jumps that changes the conversation from resolution and upscale. To interface, A.I., and physics.

[Hereandthere]

We went from hyping 33 tf's, being a pc killer for 700, to upscaling.

[Cockney]

To be fair its an article about upscaling, well it was until you trolled in