How PlayStation 5 Pro lays the groundwork for PS6 and beyond

Digital Foundry: "We are looking at such a big change here that absolutely we should be looking at PlayStation 5 Pro as the console that sets the ball rolling for Sony in an area of crucial importance. I'd even venture to suggest that PlayStation 6 may even need PlayStation 5 Pro to exist for this evolution to happen. Sony's technology groups need time to develop technologies like PSSR and to ship them and to refine them. Meanwhile, developers need to grow accustomed to these technologies instead of simply focusing on them for their PC games."

[isarai]

I sure hope not. I'm so tired of the AI upscaling and frame generation techniques. AA techniques from 2008 look better, like how do you apply an upscaling technique that makes 1440p look worse than 1080p make it make sense?

[Babadook7]

I disagree. DLSS and PSSR look amazing. Glad the GPU is being used for environment settings rather than just native 4k.

[blanka4545]

can't wait yeah technology needs illustrations and success to introudce and evolve to a new age great idea! Ps5 pro yeah can't wait! :) others complain don't understand lol!

[ZycoFox]

Frame generation adds input lag so yeah you still need decent hardware to drive high FPS, most PC players don't like it because of that, DLSS is fine for the most part though because these days it works so well.

[PRIMORDUS]

That's where Nvidia reflex comes in. Reflex on, or Reflex on + boost, though I feel at least for me Reflex on is enough.

[CrimsonIdol]

Reflex works without frame gen though, so it still feels snappier and more responsive to turn off frame gen. But if you really don't care then I suppose it's fine. I kind of feel it's a bit redundant personally. You need to have a pretty decent frame rate for frame gen to work well and not feel sluggish, even by Nvidia's admission. but if you're getting 60fps already then why bother you know? And it's not free, there's overhead to the GPU, so you're impacting that potential fastest native frame-rate you could get.

[andy85]

That's not true in the slightest. DLSS quality mode can look better than native at times. Heaven knows how you're getting 1440p looking worse than 1080

[Einhander1972]

No way, DLSS FSR and PSSR are huge improvements to image quality and over all performance

I am not even saying this as a PlayStation comment just stickily from a development point of view.. And the tech has/is advanced(ing) way faster than and cheaper than the cost/benefit from simply putting more silicon on the board.

I feel this statement is going to come across badly for the audience here on N4G. But, for the consumer you're getting "graphics" for cheaper ($$$) than just making a "bigger" chip which was the only way to improve graphics before AI.

[isarai]

It's crazy how we all admit it's being improved, but no one ever admits the issues present from which the improvements come from. Ghosting, artifacts, and latency are always an issue, ESPECIALLY ghosting. I have yet to see a single example that does not have these issues, and honestly ive been pretty damn close to going primarily to my PC just to be able to not have this crap on.

[CrimsonIdol]

Agree. There's definitely a bit of a trade off, particularly the heavier you lean on it. It's just one that's often worth it. But yeah. Even DLSS. They're all using temporal data to antialias. There WILL be issues with semi-transparent moving particles, reflections and whatnot where the motion vectors aren't perfect. It's not magic.

[isarai]

@Crimsonidol

And that's my point, im a stickler for image quality, and i lean towards clarity in motion, ill gladly take jaggies in an un filtered resolution if the only other option was any modern upscaling technique. There's always something, and i notice it every time, from ghosting, to image softness, to shaders like grass, water, and other alphas turning into blurry messes when in motion. Im tired of me eyes feeling like they're out of focus on so many games, and being taken out of immersion because there's trails coming off anything passing by certain shaders.

I at least wish it were an option in more ganes, I've seen it in like 2 games, but there's always PC i suppose 🤷‍♂️

[Good-Smurf]

I'd rather want them to focus more on fun physics simulations and interactivity than just wasting all that power just to hit native resolution nowadays.
We're stuck for over 10 years obsessing over at making prettiest games with the interactivity of an art gallery.
If AI upscaling can free up some of the resources to push other areas of the game's graphics, then so be it.

[isarai]

I genuinely thought we would get that this gen with the large CPU leap, but everything seems to be getting dumped on ray tracing and Upscaling techniques for most games. We could be getting so much more, but this whole gen seems like such a waste

[Profchaos]

Like it or not Ai upscaling is absolutely going to be heavily used in pretty much all generations from here on out. Whole development teams attempt to push pixels and engines as hard as possible there needs to be a compromise hardware is not infinite and they might be targeting 1080p internal rendering resolution for some time but using AI upscaling to get to 4k.

If 1440p looks worse than 1080 it's more likely because theirs technical problems than anything else

[DustMan]

Naïve statement. AI upscaling is only going to get better and better. It's already far beyond what DLSS 1 & FSR 1 used to be. Developers get new technology and it takes time to know how to incorporate it and utilize it to it's best capabilities. I don't see it as a crutch as even the most expensive card on the market can barely handle 4k native.

I'm playing FF16 on pc right now using FSR because for some reason, even on my Nvidia card FSR in this instance just looks better.

[Gregero]

I hope the groundwork doesn't include the pricing :-/ Methinks it does.

[ABizzel1]

Things are just going to get more expensive in general. I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the leak DF covers about PlayStation having 3 - 4 platforms next gen is true primarily due to pricing (Base PS6 / PS6 Pro / PSVR3 / PS Portable), and if so we could be looking at $599 base PS6 / $999 PS6 Pro / $299 - $599 PSVR3 (depending on the tech) / $399 - $499 PS Portable (runs PS1 - PS5 games natively, just PS5 at a 720p resolution upscaled with PSSR + FSR4).

That all sounds expensive to the majority of people, especially when you have $2,000 on rent + utilities, car, basic survival expenses, etc…. But in comparison those prices are still a value.

The PS consoles are basically high-end gaming laptops in a console with highly customized hardware, console specific API software, and uses less parts (displays / shared system & VRAM, etc…). Gaming laptops with the 6800m (basically the PS5s GPU) were around $1,500 when the PS5 launched at $500 (3x the price). Gaming laptops with RX 7900m / RTX 4080 Mobile / RTX 4090 Mobile (closest things to PS5 Pro with no RDNA 3.5 option yet) are over $2,000 - $3,000 (3x the price or more).

So the consoles are priced within reason, it’s just people aren’t use to $700 consoles, things in general are just getting more expensive, and the cost of wages aren’t growing at the same rate as the cost of living / expenses.

[CS7]

It lays the groundwork for the pricing.

[mkis007]

Pssr really does depend on ps5 pro. DLSS didn't start out as good as it is right now. It needs to train.

[Retroman]

If the Pro is a indication of Ps6 graphics I'll keep gaming on base PS5. Most likely PS5 will play some PS6 games.

[gold_drake]

it also lays the groundwork for a higher price.

unless sony is willing to take a loss on their consoles.

[Walalon]

Yeah, for the Ps6 $800 or $900 probably

[Games_People_Play]

If PS6 is all digital, I will be done with PlayStation.

[Gregero]

Same here.

[il-JumperMT]

Groundwork to rip off people?