440°

DF Weekly: If Xbox Series X is more powerful, why do some PS5 games run better?

Digital Foundry writes: "We've heard some interesting theories over the years - such as how Xbox Series X's split-memory set-up (560GB/s of bandwidth on 'fast' memory, 336GB/s on 'slow' memory) may be impacting performance, but the number one reason we've heard from developers concerns the nature of Sony's development environment. More than one key triple-A developer tells us that the PlayStation GPU compiler is significantly more efficient than the Microsoft alternative, meaning that there's better utilisation of the graphics hardware."

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purple101364d ago (Edited 364d ago )

''We've heard some interesting theories over the years - such as how Xbox Series X's split-memory set-up (560GB/s of bandwidth on 'fast' memory, 336GB/s on 'slow' memory) may be impacting performance, but the number one reason we've heard from developers concerns the nature of Sony's development environment. More than one key triple-A developer tells us that the PlayStation GPU compiler is significantly more efficient than the Microsoft alternative, meaning that there's better utilisation of the graphics hardware. In general, we understand that the lower level API access afforded to PlayStation development means game makers get more from the
hardware.

The second most common explanation we've received
from developers concerns the nature of the GPU itself. Mark Cerny himself discussed this way back in March 2020 when he revealed the technical specifications of the PlayStation 5. While the console may have fewer
compute units than Xbox Series X - 36 vs 52 - the entire GPU runs faster, meaning that certain tasks will complete faster, better suiting certain game engine designs. The extent of this advantage was always an unknown as PS5 operates with a boost clock on both CPU and GPU - maximum clock speeds will be limited
by a power limit on the processor.''

So what we learnt, ps5 outperforms xbox due to the higher clock speeds and general architecture, so it can do less with more,

this means the ps5 pro when it comes with its 60 compute units, + massive memory boost - The standard PS5 memory runs at 448GB/s, but Sony is bumping this up by 28 percent to 576GB/s on the PS5 PRO, + while also adding array of separate processors to take the ray tracing load away from cpu/gpu, - WILL BE AN ABSOLUTE BEAST of Godzilla/ kong proportions, haha

364d ago Replies(7)
just_looken364d ago

Bloated windows 11 vs a unix based os that is from the freebsd boy's

Anyone with a brain can tell you papaos runs games better than windows 11 bloated up with 2 of the same system's.

I will never get windows 11 because of all the bloatware int the background that clog's up a system's power.

This is not hardware but software sony has always used linux/unix operating system allowing them to put more power into there games that is a old fact.

thesoftware730364d ago

I think the PS5 Por will be great, but you should temper the expectations. I don't see a generational leap, and your comment about Godzilla and Kong would imply that.

I personally think Sony should hold off on the PS5 Pro because I haven't seen any mind-blowing games that the PS4 couldn't handle. Yeah, Demon and R&C look excellent, but they were early-gen games, and I'm 100 percent sure that the base PS5 can do so much more.

Einhander1972363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

That's not how it works.

Any game that struggles maintaining resolution in dynamic resolution will have higher resolution on PS5Pro, the same with frame rates, they will be higher on PS5Pro.

Any game that uses DRS or drops frame rates which is nearly every graphically demanding game released will benefit from the Pro. Every game that isn't holding resolution or framerate is already maxing out the PS5.

Just as an example of how much the PS5 is being maxed we already have games that have 30 FPS "Graphics Modes" (and Performance Modes) when the Pro comes out you will see those Graphics Modes come with unlocked framerates for the Pro.

Essentially every game that has a graphics mode is already a "Pro" game.

And on top of all that you will have games that are made specifically to support the Pro.

Eonjay363d ago

Expectations for the Pro should be based on what Sony provides in its documentation. So obviously increased resolution, increased framerate in GPU limited titles and more details in their BVH structure.

It's not intended to be a generational jump. It is quite literally a PS5 on steroids.

thesoftware730363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

Einhander, that is exactly how it works, and who the hell said that the Pro wouldn't be stronger and better in every respect than the base PS5? That is obvious. What in my comment implied that it wouldn't be stronger when I clearly said the "Pro will be great"? What are you even arguing?

Do you honestly feel you got all you can out of this gen and PS5 so far? Almost 90 percent of the games are cross-gen man. Sony's first-party games are always graphically superior, but HellBlade 2 is currently the best-looking console game(no matter what reasoning people give), and if NINJA Theory can get that level of graphics, what do you think Naughty Dog and other Sony studios can do? You cannot possibly believe that the games released so far are the peak of these systems.

Are you also implying that the height of PS5 graphics peaked at launch, and we cannot expect better-looking games than R&C, Horizon 2, and DS: Remake? Everyone knows that early-gen games are eclipsed graphically later in the generation as developers become more familiar with and find new ways to manipulate the hardware.

Listen, I ain't saying anything other than that both the PS5 and SX can do more than we have seen and have more life left in them. As I said, when devs get more familiar with and learn the hardware, they are able to get more out of it, plain and simple. And yes, the PS5 Pro could possibly allow some of what you claimed, but does that mean the same games won't be on the Bae PS5? The bells and whistles that you are talking about are not such a huge hindrance that people can't wait for PS6 or at least a couple more years.

All the super duper PC features are not exactly necessary for a game to look amazing, like Ray tracing, for example; while nice, I can live without it. You come off as if Ray tracing and some of these other effects are 100 percent necessary to have a beautiful game at an asking price of $500-600 to boot. I'm an early adopter, and I collect consoles and specific games, so I will get a pro when it launches, but it doesn't change my opinion on the state of the current gen.

363d ago
Einhander1972363d ago

"Do you honestly feel you got all you can out of this gen and PS5 so far? Almost 90 percent of the games are cross-gen man."

You are missing the point, every game that is dropping res/fr is capping the PS5 in that game.

HellBlade 2 is currently the best-looking console game

rlow1363d ago

I agree this generation of consoles haven’t been pushed as hard. They really need to take advantage of them before moving on.

Einhander1972363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

I was going to make a long reply but there is no point, either you get this or you don't.

--> Every game that isn't holding res/fr is because it has hit the limit of the PS5. <--

PlayStation published games are not cross gen anymore, the last cross gen game was God of War.

Also.

Hellblade runs at 30 FPS which it doesn't even maintain, and on top of all that they regularly use "darkness" to lower draw distances.

Go play Horizon Forbidden West: Burning Shores in full 60 FPS in an open world with a draw distance that is as far as the eye can see with high quality textures and the arguably the most advanced sky and cloud physics created to date which you can actually fly though because they exist in game and aren't just a sky box object. Even through storms as well as swim underwater of course.

Then get back to me and tell me and honestly tell me which game is more advanced and has the more advanced graphics.

Minus the granular detail Hellblade 2 is nothing.

Edit, sorry about the double post i accidently clicked the post button while trying to expand the text box.

thesoftware730362d ago (Edited 362d ago )

Einhander,

You need to pay attention: Yes, games are at 30 fps, and some are at 60 fps.

Now, really pay attention to what I say. As developers become more familiar with a console, the tools they use become more efficient and can yield more results for less draw on the console. So plain and simple, the PS5 and SX have more to offer than we have currently seen. The games do not look worse; they only look better on these consoles, so the proof is in the pudding.

A small(remember I said small) example of that is when Larian found that memory problem in BG on the SX. When they did, they were able to improve the GPU or CPU usage overall in the game, which they went back and applied to the PS5 version as well. AMD just added FSR to console games as well; see, it's an improvement. Again, the consoles have more to offer.

Einhander1972362d ago (Edited 362d ago )

--> Every game that isn't holding res/fr is because it has hit the limit of the PS5. <--

Edit:

What you're saying is irrelevant, regardless of optimization when a game is dropping frames and res it's because it hit the limit of the hardware, even the most optimized games can hit that limit.

EVERY GAME THAT IS HITTING THIS LIMIT NO MATTER HOW OPTIMIZED WILL BENEFIT FROM THE PS5 PRO.

thesoftware730362d ago

Enihander,

Lol, ok, each conversation I have with you, you clearly don't make sense.

First..... I AM NOT SAYING THE PS5 PRO WOULD NOT BE BETTER IN EVERY WAY POSSIBLE!

The limitations have not been reached on PS5 and SX!! When you optimize, that affects the frame rate as well!

I simply can't see why it's not obvious to you.... how long have you been gaming? Have you not been around for every gen? If game starts looking better and better as a gen goes on, that is the simple proof of it...

I'm done with this discussion , you make no sense and are arguing about the PS5 Pro will improve the games...no shit Sherlock...not the point at all.

Einhander1972362d ago (Edited 362d ago )

The problem is that apparently you don't actually understand how hardware and game development work.

You claim Hellblade 2 has the best graphics so lets use that as an example. That game drops to 960p then when it hits 960p which is the lower cap it starts dropping framerate.

Let's say that was a PS5 game if it was running on the PS5 Pro the resolution would not drop to 960p and it would maintain 30 fps.

Now you say, what if they added/improved the FSR? FSR is an upscaler so if the base resolution is higher which the Pro would have over the base PS5 the image quality would still better because FSR wouldn't have to to uplift the resolution as much. And it would still be a stable 30 FPS because the framerate only drops after DRS hits 960p and the hardware still can't process the frames fast enough.

Every game ESPECIALLY the well optimized ones are going to use DYNAMIC RESOLUTION SCALING because it stabilizes the framerate by lowering the resolution because smooth game play is always preferable to resolution.

DRS is used because every game is going to have areas where the hardware usage is low and other area's where it is high, so instead of limiting the hardware to the lowest point (like they used to do before DRS) they find a median of hardware usage and let DRS smooth it out. That is how modern games are made, and it's not going back.

The benefit of the PS5 Pro over the base PS5 will be the exact same past present and future regardless of any type of optimization. It doesn't matter if the generation on the PS5 hasn't peaked, when it peaks those games will still benefit from the Pro in the exact same way.

What your saying is irrelevant, there is a factual benefit in modern game development when every game creation software (like UE4/5, Unity, EA's Frostbite, Ubi Snowdrop, and every other mainstream creation kit) all use DRS and even if they went back to fixed resolution the fixed resolution on PS5 Pro would be higher.

Edit:

This statement seems to be the basis of your argument...

"The limitations have not been reached on PS5 and SX!! When you optimize, that affects the frame rate as well!"

Games are dropping resolution and frame fare BECAUSE THEY ARE HITTING THE LIMIT OF THE HARDWARE!

It's not because some dev was like "Hey, lets program this section of the game so that only runs at 20 fps".

It's running at 20 fps because the hardware can not process it any faster/

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 362d ago
M3talDiamond364d ago (Edited 364d ago )

Question: If Xbox Series X is more powerful, why do some PS5 games run better?
Answer: Because the Series S exists

ChasterMies363d ago

Xbox Series X is between 25% and 50% of Series X/S sales, which means the Series X footprint about as big as the WiiU. Commitment from developers depends on marketshare.

jwillj2k4363d ago

Most if not all third-party games run worse on Xsx than ps5. It’s third-party and has nothing to do with the series s.

JEECE363d ago

I mean, if you are only going to dedicate a certain amount of time to optimizing a game for each platform, and one of the platforms has two SKUs you have to target, one of which is much harder to work with due to being weaker and having less RAM (Series S), naturally the other SKU (Series X) is going to suffer because it will receive less focus. Not saying that is the explanation every time, but I'm sure it has been a factor.

RaidenBlack363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

Series S was a blunder ... MS created the more powerful console but handicapped it with another SKU.
Devs now have to spend more time on balancing performance across multiple SKUs on the Xbox's side than focusing on just one like on PS' side.
IMO, if Series S didn't exist, the comparison would've been much fairer and the outcome would've been a bit different ... but its now an easier win for PS5.
It is also the same reason, Xbox is not doing Series Pro ... three SKUs would mean even more time, more dev utilisation effort and even less efficient harnessing of power across three consoles in a single generation at MS's side alone. Current cross-gen game devs already have to deal with 4 Xbox SKUs.
Hence its rumored MS might move to next generation earlier (tryin to repeat the X360 launch success) ... but again might shoot themselves in the foot if they also co-launch a handheld SKU with it.
Imagine launching a 30+ TF next gen console only to force devs to balance the performance with a 3 TF handheld.

Charlieboy333363d ago

Except the X was out for quite a while before the S even came out and STILL underperformed in most games

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Destiny1080364d ago

phil boasting about 12 teraflops stopped about a month after the PS5 launch

xbox fanboys continued for years blaming bad software from the biggest software company in the world

if you want real power and not smoke and mirrors you pick yourself up a PS5 Pro

just_looken364d ago

It was the software if you got out off the sony but you would see windows 11 the windows xbox app and the xbox software are bloated crap operating system's.

Take the exact hardware put it on windows 7/10 or os like papaos the game will run alot better though it has to have win 7 support.

Eonjay363d ago

Even if the software wasn't an issue there would always be situations where the PS5 out performed the Xbox and vice versa because each has advantages over the other. The GPU clock by itself is enough to outperform the Xbox when there are no other bottlenecks. Likewise games that can max out both GPU's should in theory run faster on the Xbox if their are no other bottlenecks. There is no way to avoid some games running better on one or the other. With the PS5 Pro, all games should run better on that platform (faster memory, CPU and wider/faster GPU).

RedDeadLB364d ago

To be honest, as an IT guy, 95% of Microsofts sotfware is such an astonishing pile of crap.

crazyCoconuts363d ago

And working with their sales / acct mgmt teams for enterprise apps is a nightmare.

VincentVanBro364d ago

And if you want REAL power and not smoke and mirrors you pick yourself up a 7950x3d and 4090 equipped PC

fr0sty363d ago

only to have a good bit of that massive power (and the massive investment required to buy it) thrown out the window due to poor optimization and the need for backwards compatibility with cheaper, more common hardware.

VincentVanBro363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

@fr0sty nothing incredible comes without cost, and these graphics are *chefs kiss* incredible.

andy85363d ago

The graphics really aren't much different. I run games in ultra and it's so marginal. The only proper difference are the frame rates, and once you go above 120 it's seriously diminishing returns. Certainly not worth the £3000 vs £400.

VincentVanBro362d ago (Edited 362d ago )

@andy85 you’ve outed yourself as not owning a beastly gaming PC lol when a game like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2 comes out and I’m playing ray traced, max settings, on an ultra wide, at 144 fps lol compare that to consoles... its gonna be a slaughter. Console games hurt my eyes when I go back to them tbh

andy85360d ago (Edited 360d ago )

@Vincent my dude I can run any game with RT on in ultra at a minimum of 60 fps. So I can see how games look when they're the best they can be graphically. There's the odd ones that stand out (CP2077) as way above console settings. But the vast vast majority are a small difference visually. And the console games hurt my eyes is funny. Forbidden West is still in the top 3 games I've played graphically. And 60 fps vs 144 is marginally different. I'll say it and keep saying it. 60 fps with everything maxed is a far better looking game than 144 with limitations.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 360d ago
thesoftware730363d ago

Destiny,
Oh shit, Sony Shadow launched the PS5 Pro?

Where can I get one!

OlderGamer17363d ago

Years they where shouting its the tools...the tools are coming....but they are still waiting for rhe "tools"
Ms is like always...Smoke and Mirrors....

Knightofelemia363d ago

So when does the PS5 pro come out?

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 360d ago
Jin_Sakai364d ago

Here’s the answer to the question.

“So, based on our conversations, the combination of a more efficient GPU compiler, lower-level APIs and higher clock speeds allows PlayStation 5 to match or even exceed the outputs of Xbox Series X in some scenarios."

dveio364d ago

I remember giving myself that Mark Cerny presentation of the PS5 completely back in 2020.

Although sometimes I wasn't sure if Cerny was CGI, he simply came across like a true player of the game, a true gem in his field, especially about the PS5's variable boost-clock of the GPU, the SSD and the vision they had on why they used less CUs.

Sony's done a remarkable job with the PS5's hardware architecture.

OptimusDK364d ago (Edited 364d ago )

Nope the PS5 is by no means a technological marvel - not in any regard.

The PS2, PS3 where much more advanced compared to the PC side of gaming at their launch time. NOT SO with the PS4 and PS5 they are not tech wonders at all.

LucasRuinedChildhood364d ago (Edited 364d ago )

That's objectively not true: https://www.reddit.com/r/PS...

The PS5 and Series X were much more powerful at launch relative to other hardware on the market compared the PS4 and Xbox One at launch. Especially on the CPU side.

dveio364d ago (Edited 364d ago )

Putting a 5.5GB/s SSD into a home console back in 2020 (actually years earlier during R&D already), almost doubling the rivals choice, was pretty marvellous to me.

Huey_My_D_Long364d ago

My guy doing more with less is an achievement, as well as ease of access.
As great as the ps3 was, would have been way better to make it easier for devs to get what they want out of it.
All that power to be bottlenecked had serious drawbacks.
Ps2 had games but it was the least advanced at the time compared to other consoles.

S2Killinit364d ago

When PS5 cane out it had tech architecture that didnt exist elsewhere yet. Let that sink in.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 364d ago
Outside_ofthe_Box363d ago (Edited 363d ago )

Cerny got so much shit from people during that time. So many people acting like they were more knowledgeable than him.

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