Xbox Game Pass is a huge gamble for developers and it doesn't always pay off

Xbox Game Pass is a huge gamble for developers, and it doesn't always pay off.

[purple101]

'doesn't always' , -has it ever?

[Cacabunga]

Stupid media have been praising it for quite sometime and made it sound like the best deal..

[babadivad]

It's the best deal for people who play games, I.E. the gamers.

[Obscure_Observer]

@babadivad

"It's the best deal for people who play games, I.E. the gamers."

Well said

[Jingsing]

You couldn't go anywhere without the media praising it and part of the reason for that is their lifestyle, Many gaming journalists just want free games to review and using the gaming industry as a jumping off platform to move up in the media world. In other words it is good for people who are not invested in the hobby but bad for people who are.

[Christopher]

***It's the best deal for people who play games, I.E. the gamers. ***

A good deal for the consumer doesn't mean that's what is best for them. This is ignorant and how Walmart and Amazon have the control they have on the market.

[S2Killinit]

@babadivad
No it is not. My god the arrogance and ignorance of people who bought into the marketing of gamepass is intense. It is a service whose selling point is day one releases, but in its history it has only release a small number of those. In fact, since its inception people have paid into it without getting much in terms of “day one” which is the whole reason why people continue to repeat the MS marketing phrase “best deal in gaming”. In reality is is not the best deal, especially if you are the type of person who likes to choose games that my not be available on gamepass’s rather small ratio of games compared to what the industry has to offer at any given time. One may actually
end up paying more FOR THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAMING. That is not the “best deal in gaming” it is a bad deal.

[Cacabunga]

Killinit

Imagine also when you subscribe and the game get taken off due to agreement reasons.. you go buy the same game next to 😹
For casuals and people with no gaming knowledge it might seem like a good deal because didn’t matter what they play.. for the rest big time no.

It’s the best deal for pigeons.

[PhillyDonJawn]

Cause it is. Don't see how anyone can say it's not

[lodossrage]

The only way it pays off is if a dev gets enough of a payout from MS that it can cover either the cost of development or loss of potential sales (sometimes both)

If you know your game can sell well it more than likely not worth it. Even if you're a decent selling indie, you may find out it's not worth it.

Think about Cuphead when that first came out on Xbox. They would have lost a ton of sales had that been a day one game

[Cacabunga]

See, problem with this is that the game does not get enough hype.. if the game ends being good and the dev is willing to make a sequel, it’s starting from scratch for the dev..
and honestly how much can an indie dev get from MS for a game.

[Jingsing]

Game dev is effectively rolling a dice because they lack faith in their own game. That is fundamentally the wrong thinking and attitude. Ironically this works out bad for Microsoft too. Because if Microsoft are willing to pay for your game and you are willing to sell it because you don't think it will sell then that's two idiots.

[Abear21]

The only way it works for devs is if there’s enough micro transactions in their game then they can get money out of people through free exposure to their micro transactions

[MrBaskerville]

Sometimes it pays off in exposure. There are games that have succeded because of gamepass. Maybe partly because being on gamepass also usually gives you marketing from Microsoft.

But it can probably be a double edged sword.

[lodossrage]

@MrBaskerville

Games haven't succeeded because of gamepass. They just gained an audience. If a game can't financially sustain itself it's not going to be successful.

Being on gamepass can get you a player base sure. But if they aren't paying for your game and getting it for pennies on the dollar along with every other game on the service, how successful can it really be?

[Jingsing]

In a sea of video games, lets just say hypothetically Microsoft has paid for 20 or so game pass titles they can't all get equal exposure. It is a faulty premise. In the gaming world there is only room for a couple of games at a time for massive exposure. We see some games fail to sell because another game stole its thunder. Microsoft can't promise thunder for everyone. dumb model, dumb proposition.

[MrBaskerville]

@Lodosrage
Some indies have claimed that they sold more on other platforms after they got discovered on gamepass.

I had a game on gamepass and I think our player count was a lot higher than it would have been under normal circumstances. Sales haven't been that impressive, but the player count helped greenlight a succesful spin off.

[lodossrage]

@MrBaskerville

Yeah I know some devs did claim that. But many of those same devs are now talking about how they're having a hard time because gamer's "purchase behavior" has changed.

I'll take you at your word on your project being greenlit because of gamepass exposure. But that's just a house of cards. Is your next game going to be subsidized by Microsoft like the first one was? Numerous devs already said MS, Epic, nor Sony pay as much as they once did to be on their sub services

To each their own I guess. I just know that when bills come due they don't get paid off in exposure.

[DarXyde]

It depends on who we're talking about. It helps to give some games exposure that otherwise wouldn't. I'm of the opinion that Persona games couldn't break 20K on Xbox otherwise so there's some benefit there.

As for who it benefits, that's an interesting question. Gamers primarily we would think... But it must create entitlement among the consumers. And the quality of titles launching on the service seems lacking, often missing some feature(s) one expects at launch. I'm not even convinced Microsoft really benefits from this strategy. Without sub growth, I don't see how this works, honestly.

Frankly, I think it's killing Xbox. Not because the strategy doesn't work, but because it isn't growing fast enough to justify what they're doing to Microsoft proper.

[Jingsing]

I just wouldn't put Persona on Xbox as there is no audience for it in the first place, which is how it was in the past. No one on Xbox is complaining about a lack of Japanese games. They have conditioned a player base to do without them.

[DarXyde]

JingSing,

I would say it works (or worked) if the Xbox is the only place to play those games. Xbox 360 did surprisingly well (relatively speaking) in Japan thanks to Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, and timed exclusivity of Tales of Vesperia.

However, where I think it left Japanese gamers a bit furious was Tales. Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were great games, but they were new IPs. Toriyama and Sakaguchi were behind them, but I'm not sure that on its own encouraged people to buy into those titles. But Tales is a long running series and I think those gamers were pissed to realize they didn't even have to buy an Xbox to play it. After the PS3 announcement, I recall a Japanese gamer posting photos of them breaking their Xbox disc. Don't know how indicative that is, but clearly, they are quite resistant to buying Xbox. If it was truly that upsetting, they've torched that bridge.

So to your point...I think there was a time when it worked. Now? Nah. I agree with you.

[Obscure_Observer]

"'doesn't always' , -has it ever?"

Well, the fact that Phil went all the way up from head of studios to CEO of MS gaming and Xbox is now MS´s third biggest business ahead of Windows since Gamepass got released, should give you a clue.

Also, despite previous rumors, we´ll continue to get AAA first party games day one on Gamepass! COD *INCLUDED* (not that I care about that franchise, mind you).

[Bathyj]

Phil got promoted because they had no one better not because he was good.

You get games on Game pass because no one was buying xboxes and now they nurtured a whole generation of gamers to not want to buy a games and have painted themselves into a corner.

It's not good for developers, it's clearly not good for Microsoft, and it's not even good for gamers in the long run as the platform is dying and will be forced to be third party soon.

Face it, game pass was an Experiment and it has failed if you weren't so short-sighted and could see further than I get games for so cheap then you could see that

[Chevalier]

Cool. 4 studios closed and counting! Going to be crazy saying we told you so again

[purple101]

suppose I fanned the flames a little, while I agree it could be a very good deal, if your the type of guy/gal who sits and constantly plays games everyday, plays multiple titles per month, is interested in smaller games, spends a large amount of their free time gaming, then YES, is it a good deal, but, thats NOT the vast population of gamers, we all know it, not by a long way.

They totally f**ed up by categorising every gamer as a hardcore gamer, were not, thats a very small niche, so gamepass was never going to work, vs buying a few games a year and selling them / gifting them on when your done, this way, is STILL cheaper, for the vast majority. Thats the cold hard truth

obviously, this gaming news site, is skewed slightly more towards there hardcore gamer, as the bulk of the gamers are not deep in gaming forums, this is why you see people sticking up for microsoft, their practices, their gamepass,
when this is not an accurate reflection of the masses.

[Profchaos]

Sure when you know your game sucks and won't sell positioning it as a day 1 title gets a garunteed paycheck look at payday 3 that was a stinker would not have sold and did not sell on its own merits but they development team still got a payday because it launched on gp.

There's also games like palworld that exploded in short term popularity became the flavour of the week spent a obscene amount on servers because of it which may have been a bad long term plan but still without gp it's likely that game would have released and faded fast.

So yeah it has its place but it's mainly for games that can't stand on their own merits which is why unless you're a first party low budget game like GTA trilogy or indie Dev you won't go to gp day 1

[glennhkboy]

Being exclusive to a single platform "doesn't always pay off for developers". SE, anyone? So what is the point of this article?

[ChasterMies]

Microsoft literally pays studios an upfront, flat fee. This removes risk and fills the studios bank account immediately instead of over time. For some games that would never sell well, this is a no risk option at launch. But it all depends on how much Microsoft is willing to pay. If anything, Game Pass and $80B in studio purchases has given Microsoft too much bargaining power over studios and publishers.

[GamingSinceForever]

That’s what gambling is. You win some, but you lose more often than not. 😂

[anast]

It's a loss not a gamble.

[EasilyTheBest]

There's a ton of games especially smaller indie games that never made any money at all & there's a ton of games that got released that lost a ton of money aswell way before Gamepass.
Gamepass can be better for some developers but it can be worse for others. There's a ton of variables.

[babadivad]

Literally every game you release is a huge gamble.

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Nobody is forcing these devs to put their games on GP. It’s not like MS doesn’t pay them to put their games on the service.

[MrNinosan]

Tell that to Tango Games and the other Studios within MS.

[Chevalier]

Whoa. Don't speak the truth he doesn't want to believe. Facts like 4 studios closing were just some kind of coincidence though. Was told people on Xbox buy games so 🤷

[SPEAKxTHExTRUTH]

Those are MS owned companies so your logic is flawed. MS can do whatever they want with their property. 3rd party devs are not being forced.

[Sonic1881]

How many gamers played Hellblade 2 on gamepass?🤔

[neutralgamer1992]

Not sure if true but there was 466 players playing on steam yesterday

[outsider1624]

466? Isn't that very low??

[neutralgamer1992]

Yes especially for a game that just released

[Jingsing]

People just don't want to give Microsoft money. Especially on PC this is an actual thing. You can browse any PC gaming site discord to figure that out.

[ocelot07]

Odd? Their is currently 76,000 playing on steam alone right now. And in the last 24 hours 78,000.

[AndrewM]

@ ocelot07

I just checked steamdb because I don't trust you.

Current players - 931
Peak 24 hours - 1,398
All time Peak - 3,982

So yeah....regardless of what BS you try to lie, doesn't change the truth.

[ocelot07]

@AndrewM

I don't blame you for not trusting me I was looking at the Helldivers 2 numbers not Hellblade 2 lol my bad.

[Flewid638]

I hate to be that guy but having both, 100% of the time the better games have been on PS+

I'm not saying it's good or bad for devs there either, but the selection on GamePass to me has mostly been wack.

[TheColbertinator]

Every investment in the gaming industry is a gamble.

[Reaper22_]

Any game developed is a gamble. Gamepass is still the deal in gaming. I have noticed this Christopher always post negative opinion articles about xbox. Why us this?

[ApocalypseShadow]

https://www.ign.com/article...

You can continue to lie to yourself or catch up and pay attention. Microsoft created game pass to try and move gamers to digital and one up Sony on services. The problem is that it's actually a good deal for some gamers and developers. Can't deny it. But it's destructive overall that hurts the current industry Microsoft is trying to change for their own benefit.

Developer makes a game. Developer sells the game. Gamers buy the game. That's how it works. How it's always worked. Microsoft wants to take expensively made games and smaller made games and use them to prop up their service. Which has dire consequences when it comes to sales of games on the platform, shifts gamers thinking that they can just wait for games to hit the service which kills developers sales of that game. Then, when that developer tries to sell their next game, gamers will expect their next game and the next game after that to be put on the service.

Microsoft will pay a fair amount initially. But as the service gets bigger, they won't be inclined to pay the same amount again. Maybe, the next time you make a game as a developer, Microsoft isn't interested. Now, you're stuck. Microsoft isn't paying and gamers won't buy unless it's on game pass. Then, as a developer, you're FKD. Microsoft doesn't care as they would just move on to the next game they feel will sell game pass subscriptions.

That developer should have sold their game with the first thought and believed in their game selling. Sell on as many platforms as they can financially. Then, put the game on the service for extra revenue. That's what Sony does. That's what Nintendo does. Which is why they are selling games very well which is the standard way. Why they both have won generations and kicked Microsoft's ass again and again. Microsoft just doesn't want to do it the right way that works. Make good games. Sell good games. Gamers buy good games. How hard is that shit? Microsoft just refuses to learn from the other two. They'd rather do less and try to profit more. Even if it kills studios and games off for subscriptions. That's why we dislike the way they do things.

[Reaper22_]

So in other words you say Microsoft should do what sony and Nintendo is doing? Who wants 3 different consoles that are doing the same exact thing. At the end of the day, Microsoft is gonna do what they think works for them. They aren't forcing anyone to put their games on gamepass. People act like they've taken away the right to buy a game. They haven't. If you like a game you can still buy it. Gamepass is a choice. If you want to subscribe the choice is yours. Personally, i think it's cool they give people options. Is gamepass all positive? No, but it also not all negative. It's clear that some gamers like those options or they wouldn't have millions of subscribers. Business is not all about what "you" like or want. At the end of the day all 3 of these companies are gonna do what's best for their business. Just because a service doesn't work for Sony or Nintendo doesn't mean it won't work for anyone else. I don't see what the big deal is. Especially if you don't even like xbox.

[Kaze88]

@Reaper22_ doing the exact thing? Nintendo is doing differently and innovating + good amount of exclusives. Sony and MS should try to innovate too, at least Sony has some exclusives. Nobody said that dev's are forced to use GP, but its very different to sell 100k copies of 60€ game to get 100k dollar lump sum if you put it on GP. Also let's not lie ourselves that if good game is on GP, that people go out and buy the game separately. Some yes, most no, half no.

[Chevalier]

I notice Reaper cries a lot when facts he doesn't want to face show up. Did you want rainbows to go with the 4 studios that just closed? Oh wait you will just cry some more and make more excuses right? So keep doing you! Got a Justin Timberlake song queued just for you!

[Reaper22_]

Facts
Sony closes studios
Microsoft closes studios
Gamepass has helped some studios
Gamepass has hurt some studios

Those are facts that no one can really deny. Didn't i state above that GP is not always positive? Yes I did. The problem with people here is that your dislike for one over the other clouds your judgment. I don't think I made any excuses for anything. I stated my opinion. There are some things I don't like about xbox but I also understand it's a business. Not everyone is going to be on board with certain thing any company does. I don't like that Sony closed down the socom studio but I moved on. It was they're decision.
The thing here is that many of you just dislike Microsoft for personal reasons. Its not about what they're doing with gamepass.That's your
choice. If gamepass didn't exist there would be some other reason. This i know is a fact. At the end of the day it's just an opinion article. It didn't really tell us anything we didn't know already.

[Chevalier]

Nah I actually owned every Xbox up to the current one. There just weren't and still aren't enough exclusives to make a purchase necessary. I have a huge 360 library of games, got burned on the Xbox One and decided to wait till I had a dozen or so games that I wanted before purchasing a Series X and I've not yet compelled to take the dive. There's just very little on Xbox going on.

[Knightofelemia]

Putting a game on Gamepass is a roll of the dice it either pays off and you win or you lose your shirt. But developers also have to remember if the game is a hit on Gamepass they are also losing sales of that actual game.

[mudakoshaka]

A gamble that so far has ended up losing them billions and billions of dollars.

[Reaper22_]

That's not exactly true. Well, its not the whole story.Yes, they spend
a lot of money making those deals, but they make about 3 billion a year. They've reported that they make well over 200 million a month. They're spending a lot and they're also making a lot. How long can they keep this up? Time will tell. Microsoft is very rich so what may sound like huge loses to us isn't so bad for them. They can absorb loses that Nintendo and Sony can't.

[Zenzuu]

It never pays off. It's a detriment not just to developers, but the gaming industry as whole in the long run.

[Rainbowcookie]

If you have no confidence in your game , put it on pass...get a payout to cover your cost...otherwise hope your game sells more that if you don't. It would be counter productive to quality very soon. You just have to get Microsoft to want it.

[gold_drake]

nooo wuuuuuuuuut, get outta here

[PhillyDonJawn]

Making a game in general is a gamble.

[XBManiac]

Xbox Lottery.

[8bitAssassin]

So the consumer says GP is good, but the company is working 12 hour 7 day shifts to support what you don't pay for?

[Reaper22_]

But they do pay and the devs get paid too. It goes back to what i said before.
Third party publishers are the ones who get to decide if they want their games on gamepass. No one is forcing them.

[8bitAssassin]

They amount of money MS pays for some of these titles is ridiculous. It just doesn't add up at all. Repeat for the publishers for getting their check. But I highly think MS itself has deadline on how long they want this strategy to go on.

[Abear21]

It’s a huge expenditure for consumers and they are selling you access to games in Beta you own nothing.

[GrmpyolGamer]

Lol cope harder. GP is the best deal in gaming 👍

[OneLove]

Ya all those indie games were for sure going to sell. Life is a gamble.