The Digital Foundry verdict on the technology of Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2.
Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2 is an action-adventure game developed by Ninja Theory. Players will return to Senua's story through a brutal journey of survival through the myth and torment of Viking Iceland. Take a look at the latest trailer to garner the critical reception of Senua's Saga: Hellblade 2, available now for Xbox Series X|S, Xbox Game Pass, and PC (Steam).
Cool, but the studio will get shut down still I think. Idc if MS said they won't, MS can't be trusted with anything.
They're extremely volatile with their words and action. They say one thing and do another consistently.
I'm curious about the specific language used regarding Ninja Theory's fate.
I've read secondhand accounts that mention Microsoft has "no plans to close Ninja Theory any time soon", which has some asterisks attached—namely because that article came out the day Hellblade II launched and there was no proper assessment of the game's performance relative to Microsoft's expectations. If they planned for the game to have a certain level of success and they missed the mark, that could trigger a change of plans. As well, if the talent they are most interested in leaves (I speculate this was the case with Mikami leaving Tango), that may well result in a change of plans too.
It wouldn't be fair to close them for not selling very well or increasing XGP subs to the level they expect. Ninja Theory has never been a gangbuster studio. The level of attention and care is absolutely there for their games, but they just don't perform well commercially. They never have, and if Microsoft closes them after acquiring them with the expectation that changes, that is just unfair.
But that said, they haven't been closed at this time and I don't want to accuse Microsoft of something they haven't done yet. I do expect it, but it hasn't happened. The recent closures came about a year after the most recent releases, so I guess we'll know better in 2025.
“MS can't be trusted with anything.
They're extremely volatile with their words and action.”
When gamers learn that Microsoft is a giant corporation run but executives who have a fiduciary duty to make money for shareholders.
It's not always about pleasing the lawyer Americans with the Brooklyn accent even if they live in LA. Microsoft could still keep the studio to make it look like they have more than just regular shooters. Alfredo sauce might not be as popular as marinara sauce on pizza but I sure am glad it's an option. This trillion dollar company needs to learn if its about supporting quality studios or cutting them off just because it didn't do spiderman numbers. I'm sure they would still be a trillion dollar company if they keep Ninja Theory, and also kept Arkane and Tango.
That's all companies. It's just that MS when it comes to this particular instance can't be trusted. Not after what they did to Tango.
That's pretty much the case the words never match with their actions with Microsoft. Well it's one of those things it will depend on how well Hellblade 2 does. Even their founder left recently but he was planning on leaving from the sounds of it.
Melatonin 10/10 - "puts you to sleep"
Unisom 8/10 - "side effects include boredom, but puts you to sleep overall"
Zzzquil 7/10 - "6 hours of barely any gameplay, leaves a sour taste in your mouth, but helped patients fall asleep"
Quviviq 10/10 - "helped patients fall asleep and stay asleep"
Zolpidem 10/10 - helped patients form a more healthy sleeping pattern"
Zolpidem extended release 10/10 - "fast working sleep medicine. Recommended to take 1 hour before bedtime for full 8 hour uninterrupted sleep"
Hellblade 2 is so good at putting players to sleep, that doctors will now prescribe it to you, if you suffer from poor sleeping habits.
I forgot to include
Triazolam 9/10 - "you'll sleep longer than the game's story length"
Sony's upcoming video game line up looks so lame and boring I figure PlayStation gamer's should all sleep like newborn babies.
Why are you mad? Aren't those the high review scores you Xbox fans were looking forward to? Maybe now, Ms won't shut them down.
@The3faces
I honestly think Astrobot and Phantom Blade 0 look better gameplay wise than anything I've seen from Xbox this year.
Relax man. It is just a joke and a funny one at that. Nobody played the game despite the "accolades" and being on Game Pass. It wasn't even in the Top 100 games sold during its release. 90% did not even finish the game despite being so short... Hmmm, on second thought maybe it isn't a joke after all. People did fall asleep. LOL
The only thing this game does better than the original is the graphics. The combat is slower, more simplistic, and believe it or not, more repetitive. The combat even has a free win button with the left trigger glyph activation.
You only fight one enemy at a time now as well so the fights take too long too. Sometimes you fight the same enemy 8 times in a row.
The voices in your head are no longer antagonist that make you doubt yourself, they're now cheerleaders. So even that part of the game is worse.
As for the main antagonist, the Giants. Hell Blade 2 decided to remove the ambiguity of the enemies in this game. Where in the first game, you weren't sure if the enemies are demons you are fighting are really men or just conjured illusions overlaying their visage due to your psychosis.
In this game demons are real and Giants are real. This was hammered home ny one of her colleagues (the priest with the weak chin) seeing the first Giant and hitting it with a thrown spear to chase it off. So the Giants are definitely corporeal being.
Now, having the Giants being established as corporeal beings, you NEVER even get to actually fight one!! I can't believe they never found a way to have an actual set piece battle ala God of War. What a massive disappointment.
This game had massive potential but they fumbled in every way possible. Other than the graphics. Even the puzzles are worse than the first game.
played hellblade 2 for 1 hour before i got tired of it. it just was not fun. And not being able to finish a 7 hour game really says something.
I play games to have fun and enjoy my time, not to get bored and depressed, those developers need to go back to the 80s/90s and understand why we had video games in the first place.
I really enjoyed it for what it was and glad there are some studios out there happily doing their own thing with a unique vision rather than just making the game people seem to think they should make. I loved the first one, had a great time with this one and hopefully there will be a third.
Game sales in Europe were low, and even big names such as Hellblade 2 did not feature on the Top 100 list.
Don't think it was a failure for Microsoft, since they already approved Hellblade 3...
What metrics do you think Microsoft uses to measure success. Do you think that a game costing $80 million can sell no copies and drive no GamePass adoption after 5 years of development and warrant a sequel? I would be surprised to see this series continue.
Sure that just wasn’t for show though after Tango and Arkane got shut down
Shows they are committed and squashes any potential rumours after more shutdowns
Not saying that’s true of course but it’s a hypothetical tactic
Microsoft claims Arkane Austin is not currently in danger of closing following Redfall
https://www.shacknews.com/a...
Microsoft Closes Redfall Developer Arkane Austin, Hi-Fi Rush Developer Tango Gameworks, and More in Devastating Cuts at Bethesda
https://www.ign.com/article...
Remember this is the company that said "By all metrics" Hi-Fi Rush was super successful. That game had a lower budget, spent less time in development, and was universally acclaimed.
@Enhainder
"Microsoft claims Arkane Austin is not currently in danger of closing following Redfall"
What improvements did Arkane Austin Studio bring to Redfall since then?
Have you thought about the numerous changes that can occur over a ten-month span?
Should I remind you of the image where Jim Ryan was conversing with the wonderful people at LondonStudio shortly before their shutdown?
https://www.giantbomb.com/a...
@lelo2play
Oh no of course not, because things that apply to everyone else do NOT apply to MS.
And Why? Because MS said so.
I said it so many times: Ninja Theory should go independent and cooperate with big Japanese publishers like capcom or sega or even playstation to remake or reboot some of their hidden treasure IPs.
Did they though. Out of all the gaming companies. Ms is one I'd take everything they say with a grain of salt.
I wouldn't call it "unfortunate" because there isn't much of a luck component here. It was never going to sell well, being available on Game Pass and being a type of game that historically doesn't have a strong showing on Xbox— and this is not in Xbox's best market and the game might be too costly for what it is, even at the lower-than-usual MSRP.
It seemed like an inevitability, honestly.
Frankly, Ninja Theory has always been niche—their most notable game was probably Heavenly Sword, and that was probably because it stood out as a launch game for PS3. They're not really a sequel studio. They usually aim to tell a story and move on. I haven't played the sequel, but another Hellblade probably won't be able to catch people as the first did because it grappled with some tough themes. They lose that brave new frontier of exploration with sequels.
Heavenly sword deserved a sequel and imo Ninja Theory would be thriving if they were under Sony.
thejigisup,
I believe it had a sequel planned at some point, didn't it? Not likely to happen now since Sony owns the IP and Microsoft owns the company behind it, though it is always possible that Sony outsources it to another studio.
I wasn't a fan of the gameplay personally (always a big point of issue with me and Ninja Theory games) but they are absolutely a talented lot.
They did really like Heavenly Sword apparently since it got more media than any other Ninja Theory game that I can think of. Usually it's a game and that's it, but I definitely remember a Heavenly Sword movie being on Netflix.
The stupidest lie ever told that gets ridiculous backlash by the gp advocates when questioned
This was a game being dragged on with 0 advertisement then was tossed out with everyone talking about how the game is 80% cut scenes/walking. Gamepass did nothing to hurt its sales
Gamepass is the only good way to play this game as it is not with the asking price atm.
There has to be a reason why MS is prioritizing GP over total sales. They are a business; their top priority is to make money.
"There has to be a reason why MS is prioritizing GP over total sales. They are a business; their top priority is to make money."
Traditional model was not working for them so now they are prioritizing GamePass in hopes that they will one day get enough subscribers to make up for any losses. It's the long game they are playing. They need to get those subscribers in a timely manner though.
@thenameless
The reason is that MS ends up getting more money out of consumers who sign up to GP. Because people buy GP, then end up paying for games not on offer while their amount of gaming remains the same. On average people signed up to service are paying more per year to play the same amount of games.
Meanwhile, the devs who release on GP make less money because their games dont sell copies. They get a lump sum payment from GP, thus no incentive to create anything special.
You folks continuously attack Gane Pass, yet, never bring alternative draws to the forefront.
Let's pretend Game Pass is discontinued. Then what? What's going to be the draw to XBOX? Asking for a friend.
@Willbo47
"You folks continuously attack Gane Pass, yet, never bring alternative draws to the forefront.
Let's pretend Game Pass is discontinued. Then what? What's going to be the draw to XBOX? Asking for a friend."
Nintendo and Sony seem to have a working solution. Something I think they call continuously making great games? Maybe they should try that?
They say that then after every major release they also say they are disappointed in sales. Can't have it both ways.
What they want to do is have you buy gamepass then buy early access DLC so you don't own the game but you can rent it a week early and then own the content for the game you don't own later so you'll re-subscribe to play the DLC you brought when it comes
@XiNatsu: “Oh dang that's unfortunate”
.
What did you expect a roaring success when the first one was multi platform and PAID FOR IN CASH while the second was exclusively on the lowest scaling console and on a subscription service for the price of a premium water bottle.
I'm sure Microsoft will have it stitched up for awards given their partner IGN has bought everyone.
Walking sims are just aren't my thing. I don't care who was behind the game. The original was never a top seller and with how Xbox is now the sequel to an already niche IP simply never stood a chance.
This game is the perfect marketing stunt and MS is so good at it. The game got a ton of publicity due to its intensive use of meatehuman features of UE 5. So at some point it was on everybody's mouth. Once the game released everybody realized the obvious, this thing is not a game is a graphic demo sold at a price (if you are not on GP). I did download it and gave it a try. The game remained on my M2 for not more than 2 hours. Unfortunatelly, for as much as people say the graphic is pretty (I do not like it ... and do not tell me that the color palette reflects the mental state of the protagpnist) there is no gameplay to talk of. MS only needs to make noise ... but it is all smoke and no substance.
Exactly zeek
This is just a game that failed on its own not gamepass fault but the lack of advertisement did not help also.
Why advertise if it was just gonna be downloaded on gamepass though. We know Xbox players don't buy games, and this games doesn't seem worth the asking price. So advertising would have just been throwing more money on the fire pit. Also it was advertised a little.
I mean they did remove Hellblade from Hellblades biggest console market. MS purchased two multiplatform publishers who's products sell far better on competing hardware and their rental service is cannibalising sales of new releases, low sales thanks to MS are of no surprise.
I just hope we don't see more studio closures and thousands more fired because MS's greed.
Not on Playstation, they are selling well. Not on Switch they are selling well, but Xboxgamers dont like "walking simulators".
I was thinking selling compared to other big games, but I'm a PS5 gamer so you do have a point.
"This is GSD figures, which tracks all digital game sales from most major publishers (Nintendo data is absent), and physical game sales in all major European markets."
"The No.1 selling game in May this year was EA Sports FC 24, followed by Grand Theft Auto 5. F1 2024 races in at No.3. The PC release of Ghost of Tsushima: Director's Cut sends the PlayStation game up to No.4."
"11.6 million PC and console games were sold across European markets in May. Compared with the same five week period in 2023, that's a drop of nearly 17%."
"Hellblade 2, System Shock Remake, and the Rogue Prince of Persia all missing out on the Top 100."
I need an xbox fan to explain to me how Hellblade didn't even enter the top 100 since Game Pass doesn't effect sales and you guys are all just using the service as a trial to buy the games later.... /s (for sigh)
Also tell me again how 3.5 M sales first month for FF was bad...
If Microsoft didn't buy the developer this could have been a multiplatform game and if they wanted they still could have got it day 1 on Game Pass.
If I worked at Ninja Theory I'd be sprucing up my resume right about now.
Think it's pretty obvious to most that Hellblade 2 was a flop, it was setup to fail by skipping playstation and being sent to die on gamepass, especially on a platform where they openly mock playstation 'movie games', this being way more movie than any PS game.
But in defense of GP and HB2:
If the Game Pass strategy is continuesly working out and drawing in new subscriptions, wether monthly nor yearly ones, then lower box office sales ARE the logical consequence.
I sure wouldn't have expected HB2 missing even the Top 100, but if I would have wanted to try it out, I would have rather subscribed for a month than buying it.
I understand what Microsoft is trying to do with game pass.
But I guess the point is that this game had a five or six year dev cycle, the revenue this game needs to generate to cover the cost of it's creation is high. There is a zero percent chance that Hellblade 2 brought in enough subscribers to offset the loss of sales or pay for it's creation and the continued developmental costs of other game pass games in development.
Keep in mind as I recall this game didn't even make it into the top 20 most popular games on the xbox platform. And on Steam it was equally if not more unsuccessful with very low sales and player counts..
This is the whole problem and why Microsoft is closing studios and putting games on other devices, they aren't generating enough profits to maintain developmental costs.
" I would have rather subscribed for a month than buying it."
Well yea, that's how everyone thinks, that's the problem $9 vs $50 so Microsoft needs to attract 5 people to game pass for every single sale. But it's more complicated because they also have to pay for things like the monthly games they add to the service as well as continual developmental costs.
it's a sustainability problem.
@Einhander1972
No worries, I get you.
I personally dislike the GP model, too, because I view it as a useful tool to lock games behind licensing agreements you never know when they will get expired, forcing you to pay for it again.
I just wanted to point out that HB2 was, if anything else, heavily played through GP, otherwise it would have entered the charts.
So lower rankings in the charts could in fact just mean a game is (well) received over GP.
Going forward, it's one of the most interesting things to watch in the following years how Microsoft will be able to hold up to the effect GP has on box office revenue.
I am thrilled to see how the Xbox brand will evolve around this with their next hardware iteration.
Looking at the recent hardware sales news, you can bet their heads must be steaming right now to come up with a proper strategy around GP.
My take is that you can bet Microsoft will be going or at least heavily evaluating becoming a full 3rd-party-publisher, even with their biggest IPs.
As of now, I can't see any other way how they would be able to keep the GP sustainable pumping out AA-AAA games day one.
Many of them with development costs well above 50 or even 100+ million USD. And subsequent support work going into them over years after release.
I feel like, you have a rational view of the issues, and I also "get you".
Just one thing I disagree with, though you say could so I assume your just being optimistic or glass half full.
"I just wanted to point out that HB2 was, if anything else, heavily played through GP, otherwise it would have entered the charts. So lower rankings in the charts could in fact just mean a game is (well) received over GP."
I don't think that is what happened, the game didn't even crack the top 20 on xbox's own ranking system. That is my opinion on the performance of the game.
I'm not sure there is a path to sustainability, game pass is a bit like an ouroboros the more people adopt it the more it canabalizes the platform and the industry over all.
"I don't think that is what happened, the game didn't even crack the top 20 on xbox's own ranking system."
Ouch.
I did not know that. Sorry if you had mentioned it before, I must have overlooked it.
Well, what can I say.
HB2 wasn't meant to be for everyone, but leading up to its release it got definitely hyped like it was by a part of the Xbox community.
I am saddened for Ninja Theory, I bet they would have had a bigger success if they still were 3rd party.
But I have to say that HB on its own was probably never created to be a system seller, but rather fullfilling their own vision of creation. Which in fact is what videogames are all about in the first place.
I wrap it up.
Indiana Jones and COD incoming - wonder how their numbers will look like.
It's exciting, I mean it truly is, to see GP effects on so many titles still coming up. especially on the juggernaut that CoD is.
Here we go.. too much barking about EA CEO getting a big bonus when the same ones are buying his games. So pathetic
Interesting that EAFC 24 still made top sales, considering it was the free game on PS+. Unless that counts as a purchase?
Hellblade has always been overrated, even the original. Just because a game does something different, doesn't make it amazing. Great graphics and a unique experience... that's really it. That doesn't make up for the rest. Gameplay is terrible, puzzles are terrible, no replay value, extremely short.
The original was only $30, so it was more acceptable. But the sequel brought nothing new to the table.
Such a good looking game, best graphics this gen so far
" When the camera zooms in for a close-up, the level of detail is such that it left me guessing whether I was looking at real-time graphics or a pre-rendered cutscene. Thankfully, with Photo Mode being available at any time, you can easily confirm that they are, in fact, real-time.Of course, it's really the animation you experience while playing that impressed me the most. The expressions visible while engaged in combat or simply exploring really help bring the characters to life. "
As a story-focused game, characters and character rendering play a significant role in the presentation. However, while the pre-release media largely focused on Senua herself, Hellblade 2 features a surprisingly large number of other humans. It's without doubt one of the games defining visual features - the character rendering in Hellblade 2 sets new standards, delivering sequences that, at times, almost resemble actual filmed scenes with real actors. This is one of the first examples of a game that stands up against the promise of the UE5 demo The Matrix Awakens. The scenes feel very natural and realistic in a way that manages to somewhat sidestep the uncanny valley almost completely.
Incredible graphics..this is finally next gen graphics. It’s an experience more than a game. You can fault it or accept it and embrace what it gives you. It’s like Sony 1886.
(Summary)
- Takes advantage of everything UE5 offers
- Final game 'lives up to the lofty expectations' of the 2019 reveal
- Character rendering sets new standards and nearly resembles movie sequences with actual actors
- Leverages Unreal's Meta Human 5 to bypass the uncanny valley feel
- DF were left guessing whether some cut-scenes were in-game or real life footage (photo mode shows they're all real time)
- Character detail and how light / specular etc reflect on it praised
- A lot of the visual make up is tied to the post-process effects
- No option to disable things like CA, DoF etc but it's all suitable to the games presentation
- Soft filmic image quality and wider FoV praised
Resolution and Visuals:
- DRS 1296 to 1440p (w/ black bars 964 to 1070p). Series S will be covered in separate video
- 'Not sure if adding more pixels would make a difference to the filmic quality'
UE5 Features:
- Lumen is used extensively for direct and in-direct lighting, a lot of real time changes and shadows etc all update accordingly
- 'Phenomenal stuff'
- Lumen does a better job than traditional real time lighting system for indirectly lit areas like under ramps etc
- Lumen reflections used in combination with SSR for water bodies. Some water bodies can show SSR artifacts when moving camera
- 'Anyone looking at the game in motion will be impressed even if they do not understand the technical reasons'
- Unreal's fog is used effectively, fog lights up with light sources and runs at high quality
- Water effects and waves are praised. ' Absolutely stunning'
- Nanite is extensively used and eliminates visible pop-in even during scene transitions
- Minimal repetition or tiling, uses photo-grammatory
- Some assets like tree branches can show low resolution when zoomed in with photo mode, however
- Fine shadow detail is retained even when zooming extremely in thanks to Unreal's Virtual Shadow Maps
- Shadow quality is not always perfect and can show cracks in some instances but very consistent by and large
- Not the first UE5 game to use all these features, but by and far the best looking game to do so.
Performance:
- 30 FPS but the performance is locked and never dropped in John's testing on Series X
- DF tested the game on their Series X - similar - PC to see how much performance could be gained over 30
- 4K with DRS, they were able to stay locked at 30 FPS on High
- DRS 1440p with 60 FPS target sees game play at high 50s with more drops in cut-scenes
- DF thinks based on this test, SX can do 60 FPS with a more aggressive DRS target
- However, PC version can show massive frame time stutters that the Xbox version does not in the same areas
- DF summary: 60 FPS is theoretically possible, but for a stable 60 they might need to drop settings a lot
Audio
- Headphones are needed for Binaural audio effect that the game uses extensively
- DF thinks it is 'incredibly engaging'
Trailer Comparison:
- They compare the Giant fight trailer with the same area in the final game
- Final game has lesser lens distortion and difference in how the flame is lit
- The flames felt more 'fluid' in the demo versus the final game, otherwise no difference in the segment noted
- DF thinks Ninja Theory 'reached their goal'
- Praise the polish, presentation etc.
If they achieved this level of quality their first time using UE5... I can't wait to see what their next game is going to look like.
Remember the trailer release and ppl didn't think it was insane footage cause it looked too good