Phil Spencer on what the hell is happening in the games industry

Polygon spoke with Spencer during the annual Game Developers Conference, and though the conversation ranged from the possibility of a handheld console to the trouble with closed platforms, one theme was inescapable: What the hell is going on with the games industry? And how will video game makers and publishers — Xbox included — get out of it?

[Eonjay]

“You can’t succeed unless you draw in customers from other publishers and other platforms. And because you’re not finding new customers with the games that you’re building, everybody’s kind of fighting over the same-size pie.”

People are going to twist this into him saying that Sony is bad for exclusives but what he is really saying... what he is trying to shout from the hills to the Xbox faithful, is that Xbox can not remain exclusive if you want them to ever take risks or make big games again. The back and forth game the PR team plays with the fanatics has to stop. Spencer doesn't know what Sony or Nintendo is going to do , but he is taking the Xbox games and putting them everywhere and thats how its gonna be. Going multiplat is the only way to GROW. Full stop that is what he is saying.

[derek]

@Eonjay, Phil Spencer has a lying problem. He will not be honest about anything especially about the failure of xbox under his leadership or how his decisions contributed to xbox current predicament. He will not change, he continues to give these interviews that have no basis in reality. Taking anything this man has to say as being credible is a fools errand.

[DarXyde]

"Lying" might be a bit much.

I can't say he lies, but he is absolutely intentional with the indirect language he uses.

You can't turn off your brain with him because, while he comes across as being "down to earth", he frequently tells you what he means indirectly. I think people just let their guard down because of the way he presents himself and that's a strategy in itself.

[derek]

@DarXyde, of course he lies and obscures the truth, the whole xbox division does.

[Michiel1989]

you're supposed to lie during pr talks, nothing of note there. Same with any company, wether I like them or not, I will always take any form of pr talk with the biggest grain of salt.

[Cacabunga]

Guy’s a moron and a liar.. he’s just lazy, prefers using his money by buying other publishers and make them create content for him.. that’s about it.
That pretty much kills creativity and we can easily see it by how irrelevant his brand has become

Nintendo has been creating incredible software for so many years, earning so much from that and they aren’t going nowhere.

[StormSnooper]

Good news is that if you turn everything Spencer says upside down, he is actually very informative and consistent. 😝

[ChasterMies]

Phil is right about the limit on growth of game hardware. The PlayStation + Xbox install base has not changed in 10 years. Nintendo’s marketshare with Switch is about 100M units less than its marketshare was with Wii and DS. Any growth in PC gaming is at the expense of console gaming. Microsoft can only make more by selling more games and they can only do that by going multi platform.

[DOMination-]

Thats actually an interesting point. We all have the perception that gaming has grown massively in the last 20 years but I guess it only really has if you start to factor mobile into it.

[rippermcrip]

I don't think Phil Spencer is the one you want to ask this question. Are you sure he wasn't the one who asked it?

[S2Killinit]

Lmao 🤣 😂

[RhinoGamer88]

I won't bash Phil as much as I think he and his leadership team deserve, however, the data is showing the XBOX WW sales are nearly life support levels. Redfall failed - Star Field decent. What about those issues?!

[Sonic1881]

For a Todd Howard game, I thought Starfield was below average and overhyped

[StormSnooper]

Yep it was touted as the greatest thing to happen to gaming..

[Futureshark]

It just...works!!

[franwex]

Nothing is really wrong with the industry. More like: what the hell are video game makers doing? I’ve very rarely have I seen the disconnect between what gamers want to play, and what makers are trying to sell this wide.

[Exthun]

What's the point on invest $500 on a ecosystem, that you will have on another console plus the other console exclusives. Why this made sense for Phil, get new customer but losing the old ones.

[MrDead]

Why did the Insider Gaming article on this topic get approved then failed then replaced with a polygon article? The Polygon article was the duplicate but the Insider Gaming got marked as one instead and moved to failed.

[helicoptergirl]

Because this is the original source. That actual polygon interview. The one that was failed was a SWAS story of that interview. You must post the original interview first, and then after, i think it's 12 hours, that after its been published for 12 hours you can post a SWAS submission. SWAS = Story Within A Story

[MrDead]

I'm so use to seeing second and third hand articles on here that I never knew that was a thing, thanks for the answer.

[thorstein]

Just FYI it's 6 hours.

@MrDead,

SWAS means that the original story must be posted first. It is a story about one aspect of the original story. It's not the same story.

A second hand story/ third hand is the same story as the first.

[helicoptergirl]

I knew it was half dozen or a dozen ha

[derek]

Dude needs to shut up and focus on doing his job for once. He always talks about what's good for gaming in general despite having so completely proven he has no idea how to make xbox successful at all. He talks about ballooning budgets but will not talk about his boneheaded decision to give every xbox 1st party game away on gamepass. How will that move make it possible to support any game production especially the most expensive ones like halo infinite, Philip?

[jznrpg]

Phil and Xbox are big part of what’s wrong. GaaS is mostly the other part.

[gold_drake]

“You can’t succeed unless you draw in customers from other publishers and other platforms"

oraybe, if you actually make games that are not broken, people will flock in and play them.

but i guess buying up stuff is easier.

Phil is definitely not then one to talk about this.

[Crows90]

Phil spencer doesnt even know what industry he's doing PR for...

[rlow1]

No matter how you feel about Phil, the proof of upheaval in gaming, is in the layoffs. they have been dropping left and right for multiple years. The saying in the industry used to be that it was recession proof, not anymore. We also see it in how long it takes to make a triple A game now a days. The cost have gone up significantly and I don’t see the trend reversing. Some of his insights have validity outside of the fanboyish line of how it’s all Phil’s fault. I guess it’s his fault Sony completely shutdown London studios right after the head of Sony visited? No, this goes way beyond Xbox and Phil. I guess some on this site need a good villain for their narratives. Peace

[Workshyskiver]

People seem to have missed that PlayStation has largely stagnated in its client base since the PS2, it's by far the biggest player but in a pool that's not grown significantly since the 2000s

[rlow1]

Agree, PlayStation 5 will never exceed the ps2 in a major way. If consoles kept pushing the total install base up every generation, then you could point to growth. The reality of today is there are so many different devices you can game on compared to the ps2 era. Back then it was pc, which a majority of people didn’t own and weren’t purchasing to game on. Of course consoles, and that was the majority of the market. Back then you could have a small team and create a triple A game.

[attilayavuzer]

While all of this happening, PC gaming is having really solid, consistent growth. Seems like consoles may have already peaked. It's clear from both Sony and MS that the business is unsustainable in its current form.

[HyperMoused]

I read an article with Phil that Gen Z want there games to be able to be played anywhere thats what the market research is showing, no stand alone console, hence the Xbox games going to PS and PC and streaming service that is gamepass. But this is not what the true xbox fans want they are screwing over their core fanbase the oldies....when the PS Pro comes out im thinking ill put the ol xbox away and jump ship

[AdonisIsBeast]

Phil Spenser damage control from all the Sweet Baby collab news trending this week

[Hofstaderman]

So basically Phil is admitting that XBOX exclusives are a thing of the past? Also I find it amazing that according to him when XBOX isnt doing well, the industry isn't doing well. Surprised MS is even allowing him to be interviewed.

[Petebloodyonion]

Well you're right I guess it's going so well at Sony
let's see:
- Mass layoff
- Studios closure
- Cancellation of several games
- PSVR 2 is already the next VITA
- not meeting console sales expectations and rushing a PS5 pro

Yep, all the signs of a healthy industry.

[MrDead]

Sony have faired better then others because of their growth in the industry.

A lot of what's happening is due to more and more being owned by less and less, these goliath publishers are looking to make more profits than previous years and when they don't job cuts happen. They are still making untold billions, but if it's less then last year or not as much as they predicted workers get fired... CEO's and shareholders will still have their pockets lined at the expense of the workforce. This is capitalism, huge companies that need to consume more and more to support their eternal growth.

This is why people argue that companies such as Microsoft, Amazon, etc need to be broken up.

[Hofstaderman]

Mass layoffs industry wide more layoffs at MS acquired publishers than Sony.
Studios closed, yes, but some teams assimilited in other units.
Several GaaS games, of no consequence to those majority that buy a PlayStation for their spectacular single player story based games.
PSVR 2 was always going to be a niche product, wheres MS VR goggles? Oh wait, you need to actually have SOLD consoles to justify R and D
PS5 Pro is not rushed it was hinted at almost two years ago but admittedly I classify that as niche too and will not be getting one as I'm perfectly satisfied with base PS5.

Sorry PS is outselling Series 3 to 1.
Sorry XBOX exclusives are coming to PS5.
Sorry gamepass has effectively capped XBOX in the knees.
Sorry 80 Billion plus dollars of acquisitions cannot shift the needle for XBOX.
Sorry Phil has lied to his supporters and probably knew for some time that MS would go the 3rd party publisher route.

[cthulhucultist]

In my opinion, the issue here is that Phil seems to have no thesis, only ever swifting strategies and narratives instead.

They delivered a next gen console with no exclusives and the draught carried over for 2 years. When they actually released games, many of them were mediocre or below expectations (Refall and Starfield come to mind although I confess having great fun as solo player in Redfall with Jacob).

We were then told that games are coming because of acquisitions and instead we are getting multi platform games due to the rising costs.

PS5 was judged for its low output of exclusives even though it released many more (and highly more successful games), why MS shouldnt be judged accordingly when it performed considerably worse?

Even during 2025, with no major first party exclusives, Sony treats their fans with games like Final Fantasy, Helldivers 2, Rise of Ronin and still has Silent Hill 2, Stellar Blade and Concorde scheduled.

One has to look at Nintendo which has been releasing nearly 12 games per year for Switch (one for each month) thus keeping gamers engaged to see where its success lie. There is always something to buy.

My point is, consoles are about games. Had they invested in supporting their ecosystem (PC+Xbox), they would not have the need to go multi platform and change the narrative from exclusives are important, to exclusives are no longer viable.

[YourMommySpoils]

Correction "Phil Spencer on what the hell is happening with Phil Spencer".

[seanpitt23]

The only reason Xbox has failed again with there console is because they have no must have games exclusive to Xbox they all go on pc.. if they had like 2 killa apps every year that solely exclusive to Xbox then it would have flew of the shelves!

The management haven't got a clue what they are doing! Sony are more successful because they do that and release them on pc years down the line!

[rakentaja]

How can you grow the console market by doing the exact same thing but 50% worse than the PC market? As Linus' video showed, you can build a used PC for the same money, but it's 50% more powerful than the PS5. Practically all games are on PC. A console gives you virtually no advantage...yes, convenience and system size maybe, but resolutions and framerates are severely limited and the games are all the same. Game Pass is also on PC (speaking of Microsoft). I've been a long time Xbox fan and am seriously considering moving to PC as I'm sick of the 30fps and other limitations. To grow the console market, you need to do something that PC doesnt have...it's that simple. As soon as you release this new magical thing on PC, we'll be in the same situation again.

[ocelot07]

I agree with everything you just said. However, There are still reasons to own a PS5 and a Switch.

Yes Sony release old games on pc at some point. Personally speaking I'm not the type of person who can simply wait 2 or 3 years for a game.

[anast]

Todd Howard single handily sunk Xbox.

[Scissorman]

Someone please shut this man up. You lost and you're terrible at your job. I can't stand his constant spin and corpo speak.

[InUrFoxHole]

Phil is gaming Lord

[Charlieboy333]

Which is why you are always on your knees in front of him 'praying'

[InUrFoxHole]

Amen!

[S2Killinit]

Phil: “what the hell is happening”

[Rockstar]

I don't trust anything this clown says...