Microsoft knew all problems of the Xbox in 2005?

In an recent juridish document, it seems like Microsoft really knew about the problems for the Xbox 360 launch in 2005.

"The Xbox 360 is defectively designed because when an Xbox 360 is tilted or swiveled -- even slightly -- while a game disc is in the ODD [Optical Disc Drive], ODD components can contact the game disc, creating a distinctive circular "gouge" on the underside of the disc, rendering it permanently unplayable... Microsoft discovered this scratch-inducing design defect prior to launching the Xbox 360, but refused and continues to refuse to remedy the problem."

[Graphics Whore]

Enough is enough, this tit-for-tat crap has to stop. Please don't approve.

[So Easy I Can Do It]

the ps3 will fall with it? that gets approved?

[DavidMacDougall]

Everyone knows Microsoft are amateurs this shouldn't be news to anyone

[Graphics Whore]

I'm not saying either one is the right thing to do, but it's getting pretty juvenile.

We don't need to keep flooding N4G with stuff that's irrelevant, we know and have proof that Blu-ray is not dying and actually doing amazing, we know Xbox HAD bigger problems than this, I don't think we need to keep hearing about it though.

[iamtehpwn]

beating the Playstation brand was their top priority. They didn't mind paying the cost later if it meant they could beat Sony at it's own game now.

[eagle21]

Of course they knew. They were too obsessed with King Sony and rushed it to the market. It will never go away, and costing them billions.

[Bnet343]

I been knowing this. When my first 360 red ringed I got pissed and yelled at the manager through the phone. He admitted to me that the hardware was "brand new at the time"

[Doppy]

I'm sure they did know, but they needed that head start.

[Heldrasil]

Agreed! How many tiems do we have to read this SAME story? Thought we were supposed to see NEWS here, not age old article re-written.

[ReBurn]

Seems like a duplicate story to me.

http://www.n4g.com/gaming/N...

Both this article and the one I linked discuss the documents that supposedly prove that Microsoft knew about the problem.

[takz]

lets just ignore this and all other injustices while we are it because HEY! gears of war 2 rocks.

and people wonder why the world is so messed up geez!!!

[gaffyh]

OK this sh*t about moving the console whilst it's on is retarded, I would have though it would be common sense not to move the console when it's on.

RROD and Disc reading issues, fair enough MS should be sued for that, but disc scratching when you move the console whilst playing a game is just stupid. You deserve to have your disc scratched if you do that.

[wil4hire]

You can literally flip a PS3/PS2/PS1 Upside down while spinning without your disc getting scratched. As you can with most modern day dvd players, they latch the disc in pretty well.

MS skimped on the 360 to not make the same mistakes they had with an overly expensive Xbox1. And unfortunately its costing them.

Thier consoles cant even survive expos. They always die inside the case. While the PS3/Wii all seem to be able to work normaly in the earths natural atmosphere.

But hey, what do I know. I just enjoy not worrying about disc scratching or high rates of hardware failure.

whut?

[EXCLUSIVEGAMER]

This is literally a case of QUANTITY over QUALITY.

[phosphor112]

but when you don't move them? Wtf? How sh*tty of a product can you make and get away with it?

[SaiyanFury]

It's already been admitted by MS that the 360 has a faulty design. Sure they admitted it after the high failure rate in excess of 30% of their hardware line. MS hasn't changed the design of the console, merely taking small steps to try and minimize it. Making the CPU and GPU with a smaller die stamp to try and lower heat emissions, but even that hasn't gone very far to eliminate the problem. The 360 design was rushed because Microsoft was eager to beat Sony in console sales and faulty hardware was one big finger being pointed at this. Sure, Sony made broad promises about the release of the PS3 and because it was "late" to the party, people are fast to make the PS3 out to be a complete failure. Umm, not so much. The PS3 has a far lower failure rate compared to the 360, last I checked it was less than 1%. Microsoft's mission this generation is to beat Sony at any cost, be it buying previously exclusive PS platform games or anything else. MS has shown that they are paying developers to develop on the 360 first. Their shady tactics have already been shown and the faulty 360 design, even 3 years later is still apparent.

Of course MS knew of the faults, but in their eagerness to unseat Sony they have big holes in their approach. Selling base model 360's for 200 dollars with no features whatsoever, even trying to undercut the Wii. When value-minded people learn about the value in each PS3, it will win out. Cutting money can only win people for so long. Once the PS3 drops in price, the PS2 gamers will jump on board and will realize the sheer value of the PS3 as compared to a comparatively equipped 360. Sure the base 360 is cheaper, but for the complete modern gaming experience, the PS3 is the better bargain. Hell, every PS3 has built in Wi-Fi, something no 360 has yet MS charges 100 dollars for their proprietary Wi-Fi adapter. All features compared side by side, the PS3 is the better bargain. Hell, the PS3 even has built in HD movie playback, a feature that the 360 completely lacks. Sure the 360 has Netflix, but since I don't have a 50mbps internet connection, I can't stream HD movies. The PS3 simply is the full HD experience and can be had for cheaper than a fully equipped 360.

[negative]

Regardless it's still the best console.

[TVC15]

the ps3 is probably going to be superior to the 360 by the end of this gen, Microsoft just wanted market share.

[Electricear]

This they document three separate days of 10 xbox 360s with brand new game discs all on a measured level surface kept isolated from the gamers, and on all three occasions after 5 hours of play time at least 1 or more discs were scratched by the lens. I've read about people MOVING their consoles and causing this issue, but this was a stable concrete floor on level tables. That is unacceptable, and why do the Toshiba drives bought on their own come with disc bumpers, but the ones in the 360 don't? I see an attempt at a cost saving measure that is costing we the consumers currently, and ultimately it will cost Microsoft.

[Pennywise]

blueshirt7749:

You need to edit your name with comments like that.

I propose you: Move the L after the U, add a L, Drop the E and the R and your name will be in line with your comment.

[Tarasque]

well i think the main point is approving the exact same crap every other day, this is the 3rd article this past week of the exact same thing.

[dude_uk]

i see what you did there...
have a bubble

[morganfell]

@1.4, it is the customer that is paying for it, not MS.

And just look at those tests they ran. More than 10% had scratched disks in the tests.

[Pennywise]

dude_uk, have one back! I got a kick out of it... I was hoping someone else would be able to tell ;)

[SL1M DADDY]

Remember what you say here today the next time you read a story that:

1) Claims Blu-Ray dead
2) Says the PS3 has no games
3) Claims PS3 sold less than Xbox 360 and thus is doomed
4) Bashes Sony for pointing out faults in their competitors hardware

You know, the usual Sony bashing articles.

[FrankenLife]

This isn't the result of rushing the console out. This is the result of cost cutting. They pointed out that the scratching happens because of not guard on the lens. That guard costs money. With all the money lost on the production of the first xbox, they wanted to make this one as cheap to produce as possible.

[SaiyanFury]

Sorry, double post.

[Kleptic]

nothing new here...this was all known about 1 month after shat really hit the fan in mid 2007...MS knew their box was a pile in terms of build quality...they knew it would be the end consumer that would ultimately suffer the most...but they also knew that being first to the market would hurt Sony the most...

its clear what had the highest priority...the only thing that could be said about it is that its very interesting that MS has garnered such a fanatical army behind their Xbox division...not just in buyers...but across multiple media outlets...

i've said it for almost 2 years...I watched my 12 year old cousin go through 2 360's in just 3 weeks...got a launch system Thanksgiving 2005; and we both watched it slice every disc he put in it since he opened the box...returned it...and the 'new' box RROD'd after 6 hours of SP CoD 2...he is currently on his 3rd, which has lasted since then...its sad to think that he is 'lucky' that this third system has worked for 3 years now...

if I didn't witness these issues first hand...to that degree...I would probably own a 360...I can't say that I'm upset that I don't...as playing every big release for it wasn't enough to get me to buy one even if the system was flawless (the pay for XBL thing simply isn't worth it for me...thats my opinion...don't argue with me about it)...thats not fanboy loyalties...thats not anything other than the fact that I personally can't justify the value in the Xbox 360...to each their own...

[CyberCam]

I'm in the same boat as you my friend...

I waited to purchase my next-gen system, I wanted to compare the 3 consoles before making a purchase.

I have a friend that has all 3 consoles & in Christmas of 2006 he brought his Wii over and we (my wife, 2 girls (12 & 6) & I) love it, Wii Sports was fun as hell.

Then, in Feb. of 2007 my friend went on vacation for 2 weeks and lent me his 360. As soon I plugged it in, it RROD on me... and I was so hyped to play R6V & GeOW. It's unfortunate, but that really put me off of the 360. A piece of hardware that's only 15 months old, have issues so soon?

Then in August of 2007 I borrowed his PS3 & played GRAW2 & R6V, I even watched a couple of blu-ray movies. I really enjoyed the experience I had with it. I ended up buying my PS3 2 days after giving his back. I purchased the Wii for the kids in Oct. 2007 for Christmas of 2007.

Although I don't dogg the 360, I too can't see the value in purchasing a 360 for me & my family. I'm also personally against having to pay extra to play my already purchased games online. That's just my story.

P.S. I would love to play the GeOW series & tryout Fable II as well, unfortunately I will have to miss the experience for now. The sad thing is, I would have bought the 360 if I didn't see the RROD problem 1st hand, it was when I researched the problem online & found out the extend of the problem, I wrote the console off but not the games.

[cpt_kaos]

Yeah have to agree with there only ambition was to hurt sony by being first out of the gate.

They have probally hurt themselves more in the longer term as after 4 dead 360's of my own I feel confident in saying a few more people out there feel like me and wont be so eager to purchase there next machine when it launches.

Microsoft have alot of sucking up to do to regain what little trust and respect if any with there next attempt unless of course shareholders say enough is enough and pull the plug on there console side of buisness.

If they do get a new machine out and its a repeat of this fiasco the 360 has been then microsoft will be done for in the console market.

once bitten twice shy.

[Johnny Rotten]

I bought my first Xbox the day it came out only to have the graphics card fry on me a month later :(
the start-up menu would freeze and turn to red legos.

[PainisCupcake]

Theres no such word as Legos! It's Lego! That really gets on my tits lol

[DRUDOG]

Sorry...did somebody say something about tits? Where?

[Liquid_Ocelot]

hahahahahahahahaha omg quote of the day^^^ xD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"...the start-up menu would freeze and turn to red legos."-Johnny Rotten

"Theres no such word as Legos! It's Lego! That really gets on my tits lol"-CaptIndecisive

"Sorry...did somebody say something about tits? Where?"-DRUDOG

gotta love random shi+ xD

[Unicron]

This is a duplicate story. And frankly, I don't think it will convince fanboys anyways. But regardless, consumers should NEVER have to deal with such actions on part of the manufacturer. It's just BS.

[hadouken007]

idoit's keep buyin them i'd sell it to them to,see a fool use a fool.

[crck]

That's why they put that warning sticker on the dvd tray of every unit they shipped out. I wish someone would pay me money to figure out the obvious.

[Eddie20101]

The problem is that it scratches disk even when your following the direction and not moving the console when its on.

Stop apologizing for Microsoft, everything they do is about making money, even if it means releasing poorly designed hardware.

[crck]

I'm not apologizing for MS. I've been very critic of them. I've been the victim of 2 RRODs and I think charging for Live is a joke. I also think designing a console that scratches discs when you move it is pathetic. BUT not one of the three 360s I've had scratches discs when you DON'T move it.

[meatnormous]

I had a arcade unit first day it came out, the people in front of me bought the premiums. I really don't think that sticker was on the launch consoles. After a couple of weeks, the dvd drive on my 360 fell apart during cod 2, shattered the disk and the door wouldn't open. Called MS and they said hey would fix it but would not replace cod 2, instead they said that they would replace the game with Kameo. No thanks! I returned the console to walmart. I just bought another right before christmas and have really been enjoying it. the netflix works better that I could imagine and my fiance can't stop watching heroes. The sticker was on this console and I never move it on or off with a disk inside.

[IzKyD1331]

This is really old, but we all can agree that MS shouldn't have forced the system to release in 2005

[MaximusPrime]

yes really old. but nice way to hit back at anti-PS3 "news"

[bomboclaat_gamer]

still got some good games outa the xbox 360. i buy them broken and sell them for a profit. so the RROD is more of a benefit to me. I have a jasper console so ill see how long this lasts. but the more RROD the merrier XD

[xlg]

Im still playing on my Xbox360 from day 1 and my Elite I never faced this problem . My first xbox360 was replaced just once and the replace keep funtioning till now. My elite its in good condition. This is all BS!

[TheColbertinator]

Riiiight.

If it doesn't happen to you,it doesn't exist,right?

In that case cancer doesn't exist because you never had it

[Snake Raiser]

"Xbox360 from day 1 and my Elite I never faced this problem"

You have two?
Why?
Not trying to flame bait here, why the heck would you need two?

[Blackmoses]

First he says he's still playing his 360 from day one....yet it was replaced once?!

Am I the only one that finds a contradiction there?

Wow! delusional bunch they are....

[ambientFLIER]

That's because you're not dumb enough to move it while it's playing a disk.

[SWANN]

@ xlg: Man, you are in straight denial.

[GiantEnemyLobster]

Yet they STILL went on to releasing it? Shame on you Sony for your greedy corporate ways.

[Sibs]

Yellow light of death? Riiiiight...

[GrooveMachine]

What part of evil corporation don't we understand

[solsub]

The "evil" part apparently. It doesn't take much to understand that neither Sony nor MS nor [insert corporation name here] gives a rat's ass about either of us. They only care about our money.

[SaiyanFury]

Yes but the difference lies in where the corporation is located. Microsoft is an American corporation and American-based corporations have a history of scaling back quality to save money, Lord knows companies like Linksys and others scale back quality. I had 4 Linksys wireless routers before I finally threw up my hands in frustration and went to another brand simply because they kept failing on me. I've had 6 Linksys products, only one of which ever worked without failing, and that's my wireless G-band network card.

Sony, on the other hand is a Japanese corporation. Yes, of course they're after your money and will do things to better their incomes, but they're also not wanting to embarrass themselves by making faulty hardware. They try to minimize the cost of the system sure, but they don't undercut the QUALITY to save money. I might have paid 600 dollars for my near-launch PS3, but I don't feel cheated. I'm completely satisfied in my purchase and God knows I've gotten my money's worth out of it. And I'm still on my original console over 2 years later.

[McLuvn]

but the reason I have yet to get a 360 and decided to get a ps3 instead of both, no trust in a company who knowingly markets a faulty system =:(

[Snake Raiser]

Well, DUH!
BIG BOSS hates Microsoft, but he knows that they aren't stupid... at least not stupid enough to not notice this before the xbox 360 came out.

[jcgamer]

In the famous line by Marlon Brando, the 360 "coulda been a contendah"

lol

[Lord Vader]

Without RROD press... WOW.

Where would Sony be without RROD ?!?

[vmanj]

k we all no X360 is a faulty but MS is lucky it sold dis much but if they have any of these kind of problemz 4 the next box, i doubt ppl will trust them again. they probably knew about some of the x360z problemz, but they were under pressure to release it well b4 ps3 and wii so they can have a head start and they did pretty well. hopefully they dun rush the next 1 or else i ma change over to sony :)(i so want killzone but no money 4 a ps3)

[wicked]

It's sorted now so lets move on (same applies to RROD), for me it's all about games now. They know they did wrong and have paid the price. They cannot turn the clocks back, so there is no point going on about the same thing over & over. As for me I have over 60 games and both my sons use the system and as yet no scratched disks.

[JD_Shadow]

There are US lawsuits pending, though, and this could spell further legal issues for MS. It's not going to be THAT easy to just sweep this under the rug.

[Kratos19]

Microsoft know they couldn't go one on one with Sony so they had to launch a year early. Bunch of gutless rats.

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

I think you mean smart Playstation boy.

[dirtrider]

ps2 was the biggest problem though.people on here act like sony has only ever made the ps3, when last generation it was ps2 that was plaugued with issues. ps2 released a year before the competition, had reliability issues, but that's ok right sony fans?? xbox was a huge leap ahead of ps2 on quality and power. this generation is no different than the last except sony and microsoft "switched places". ps3 fanidiots on n4g really need to get their heads outta their asses- or grow up, besides this "news" is duplicate, and ancient. just remember ps3 fans, sony has released faulty consumer electronics as well, and yes even in their gaming division SHOCKER huh?!

[Sonyfanclubpresident]

dirtrider.

And also to the good gentlemen @#4 and #5.

[Kratos19]

Stop sucking up to each other, BRATS. You're just as gutless as the company you worship.

[sit down droid]

dirtrider put some dirt on your fire didnt he cracktoss!

[Sibs]

But were the ps1 and ps2 problems >30% of the time? Nope...

[Dogswithguns]

They knew before they made the systems, that's the whole idea, save them big bucks..... did it save them big bucks? NO.

[Baka-akaB]

WHy is that article relevant exactly ? It's obvious that MS knew about the shortcomings of their own hardware ... wasnt it designed at least partially with cost in mind ?

And do anyone even care ? Those who do didnt buy the console because of it and other factors . And millions bought it in spite of it .

Xbox failure are already an "admitted" fact , and it is an admitted fact that no one cares , except in fanboys wars flamebait , so let it go already . Even now people are more making fun of the recent "zune problem" than getting angry about it . The quality of their hardware is no longer much of a factor in their sales obviously .

[thehitman]

But.... this is dead news .... not even news... MS new they were going to have problems w/ the 360 when they decided to make another... we all know lets get on w/ ours and their lives.

[Death]

Microsoft even stated in the instructions not to move the console when a disc was in it.

"Caution
Never change the orientation of your console while a disc is loaded."

http://support.xbox.com/sup...

I think this falls under the same category as States that do not have laws against marrying your sister. It's one of those things that you would think would be common sense. It's not like the Xbox 360 has a convienient carrying hsndle on it that could potentially mislead people into thinking it's portable.

-Death

[DJ]

Even when placed on a leveled iron table with a concrete studio floor (i.e. no vibrations whatsoever), Xbox 360s scratch discs even when placed on their sides.

By defending Microsoft's illegal actions, you make the situation worse for people who have faulty 360 hardware.

[Cure]

because it reminds me how great of a choice i made grabbing a PS3.

[Spike47]

who don't know what they are buying. However, In my opinion the Xbox360 is not low quality it just has its flaws. MS knew this when they released their console with a headstart.

The Wii is a truly perfect example of what I stated in the beginning of my comment.

[RedVsBlue]

This is a piss poor come back of all the PS3 news using old news

[TruthBTold]

Well the last stories about sony have been mostly about Bluray sinking and taking down the PS3 with it or viceversa. I can't really recall the other stories since all of them have been just peoples opinion. On the other hand we have a fact, not an opinion, but a fact. So this is reality, anyway you put it, it can not be any different. So while the PS3 articles are just opinion so it will be different from person to person, this on the other hand is the same for everyone. I dont support hate articles since I enjoy reading about positive things which is why I like to come here and look for interesting things to read. Not some fanboy posting spitting his negative opinion about another console.
The sad thing about the RROD is that its still happening and while MS tries to avoid bad PR by ignoring the issue, the reality is that there are still people out there who do their research and will find this issue about the 360. I, for one, would love to also get a 360 so I could play some of their great titles. But I am one of those people who finds out about an expensive product before purchasing it and am aware of the RROD so I am not putting my money on an almost sure bet that it will fail on me sooner or later. If MS never had a RROD or disc scratching issues, or if they had been resolved appropiately then I would be one of those who "Jumps in" wisely. So while you and others want to blame PS3 fans for this issue being talked about, it really should be about you vs MS in getting this problem fixed once and for all. That way many other gamers can play without fear some of 360's great titles. Until then I will still be playing some of their titles on a more reliable hardware which is my laptop.

[LONEWOLF231]

How many more of these articles will be released???

Can you please stop posting the same $H*& over and over again?!:?!?!?!

[PS360PCROCKS]

Yes because it's a system defining problem. No offense but unless you're a child, you should know that you don't move electronics WHEN THEY'RE ON!!!! Microsoft knew? Woopity doo! It says in the manual "DON'T MOVE THE CONSOLE WHEN IT'S ON" you DESERVE to get your games ruined if your that stupid.

[Gaara_724]

I’m sorry i disagree with you (though i will not give you a disagree) because i can move my pc, pc monitor, TV, ps2,ps3,mobile phone (duh lol) and my sky box and nothing happens to them but the 360 supposedly it demolishes disks i wont dare to move mine just encase but I have to agree with you as well people who move them when there on deserve it to scratch disks

[PS360PCROCKS]

Well yes you can move SOME electronics while on, I should have phrased that better. But point is that the 360 drive is cheap, and old-school. I wouldn't move my PC, 360 or DVD player with the way the drives are. Microsoft is not ok with releasing a faulty machine, but saying "they knew about the disk drive" of course they did ANYONE with knowledge knows that a tray loading? (right?) DVD drive doesn't holds disks in place and you don't move them while they're spinning. All Appliances with a drive like that have warnings about moving them with spinning disks. Blame Microsoft but if they state it in the manual or online somewhere they have no liability.

[TruthBTold]

Without offending I was just wondering how old you are because if youre saying that if you move a device such as a pc or gaming machine or dvd player then your disk will get scratched then you arent up to date with current technology. I remember having similar disk scratching issues on my CD player back in 1993. With time manufactures have resolved this issue so now in 2009 we dont really see these things happen. I could move a DVD player I got with the purchase of my Samsung, very cheap and crappy, worth probably like $30.00, but it would not scratch a DVD. I cna move my PS3, laptop, drive on crappy roads listening to a cd in my car and guess what, the disk in the drive does not scratch. So how is it accpetable that a disk would scratch by moving the player? The thing is for me its not a PS3 vs 360 thing, for me as a consumer that is interested in buying the product, the sad thing is the only reason why I havent purchased it is because of reliability problems, everything else about the product is very attractive except for that issue I will probably have with it not working or scratching my expensive disks. This is where you become a victim of defending a product not based on the reality of the issue but just of trying to avoid it because you enjoy it even with all of its issues. I know you have all three systems but give recongnition when recognition is due but also discuss issues such as this one so that maybe the company will listen and confront the issue so that we all can really enjoy their product.

[DJ]

They did a test that showed even on a level, sturdy table on a concrete studio floor, Xbox 360s still scratch discs. I repeat, without any floor vibrations of any sort, Xbox 360s still scratch discs.

Microsoft is just trying to avoid a complete recall of their product, which should've happened with the overheating Power Supply Units and Red Ring of Death among other problems.

[Information Minister]

So that's what we're calling it these days?

I remember back in the days when defective hardware was called... well, defective. It was treated as such and the subject of recalls. Microsoft's attitude towards the failure rate of their products is simply unforgivable and the lack of respect they have shown towards their costumers is the only reason why I still don't own a 360.

[Why dis]

PS3 is selling less trying to paint a pretty picture for PS3 and a bad one for MSFT doesn't help PS3 at all. So many forced stories posted because of holiday reports.

[divideby0]

Of couse MS knew....its well known by now...AND for those who think they didnt....just think how stupid MS would be if they didnt know about it....guess they forgot testing....of course they knew about it

[Ausbo]

LET ME PUT IT STRAIGHT TO ALL YOU PEOPLE. Yes xbox 360 will scratch discs when you move it when the drive is spinning. It happened to me to my nhl 09. However if you don't move the box while it is spinning, then you have no such problem. So please everyone stop humping your xboxs while you play your games because yes it will scratch it but if you leave it alone then you should be fine. I bet that if you played catch with your ps3 it would scratch discs. so please everyone get off sony's wiener and microsoft's wiener and stop making a big deal out of a couple idiots who decided to move their xbox while playing a game.

[Anon1974]

Repeating "There is no problem unless you move the console," over and over again isn't going to suddenly miraculously make the problem go away.

360's scratch disks, all by themselves. Mine did. The 360's in these tests did. Get over it. No console is perfect. This isn't just some giant fanboy conspiracy and if you seriously think it is, that there is no problem and the lawsuits, the tests, the legions of 360 owners who can testify to having this happen to them are all part of this vast fanboy conspiracy, then there's really no use even talking to you.

[silvacrest]

Okay this is old news and blah blah blah....

but where was the uproar when there was article after article saying
"blu ray is dead"?

this may be old but at least its accurate

[Baka-akaB]

WHy is anyone moving any console while it's on is beyond my grasp .

[Sniper_amer]

so even if no one touches it while its playing a disc it will still scratch it?

and Microsoft admits it that after a regular use of their own system playing what it should be playing with out problems it will damage it???

don't they know that we are paying money to buy these games?

where do they think we get this money we spend on their games from? trees?

man and ppl still buy this system? omg some ppl just love to waste lots of money on defective stuff...

[SixAmpFuze]

I think it was common knolegde that if u move ANY optical reader that the disc would scratch. I went through maybe 832345434 cds becasue my cd player scratched my discs f the 360 is sitting still the games are fine if you tilt the console the games will scratch. This will happen to any disc player

[SixAmpFuze]

ur on crack if u think u can move a ps3 or ps1 without this happening.Also sony had its problems with dreing also

[Common Sense]

They had to have the 1 year head start. Imagine the 360 releasing alongside the Ps3. This means that Perfect dark would have gone head to head with Resistance and and Gears of War would have gone head to head against Ratchet and Uncharted. Bioshock, Forza,Mass Effect and Halo 3 would have gone against Little Big Planet, Resistance 2, MGS4, Motorstorm 2, and Valkyria Chronicles.

It also means the media bias would have been minimal and differences in multi-platform games would be non-existent and the Ps3 would have higher install base than 360 (Ps3 sold more in two years, than 360 did).

Honestly, MS would be in more trouble if they had released later.

[pippoppow]

Every company goes through a Q&A procedure. Of course they knew and there was even an article about an employee stating that fact. They took a gamble and it payed off for them, in the short term at least. Read MS is being sued by the state of California which they deserve and more.
( http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

[GiantEnemyCrab]

Another one!! This horse has been beat to a fine powder.

The problem is in the DVD drive and yes the dvd drives have been replaced.

First drive was a Hitachi and it had the problem, then they moved to Toshiba/Samsung and then to a BenQ and now all models have a Lite-On. These are not some proprietary designed drive they are standard DVD drives that you could put on a PC. There is a difference in the FW but the hardware is the same.

You should not be moving the console when the disc is spinning anyway. RTFM!

[griff2]

"..then they moved to Toshiba/Samsun(g).."

Yes, but as was pointed out in the video, the design had been modified so that the rubber buffers had been removed from the standard drive, thus causing issues. Why microsoft would want to remove those buffers is beyond me - given that any cost saving would be minimal - but they did.

[gnothe1]

I'm on my second 360 since launch( 1 RROD) i have bought over 70 games for my 360 an not once have i scratched ANY discs. why? because MY systems sits flat on a stand an it don't move. people try an set their 360 out in the open an it get bumped by friend, kids or people passing by an tripping over the cord an causing the system to move or shake, an that causes the disc to wobble in the drive an scratch the disc. I've seen 2 cousins destroy a few games just like that. but normal operation the system DOES NOT screw up disc!!

[Anon1974]

I'm on 360 number 4. My first 2 consoles rrod'd on me. The 3rd console they sent me as a replacement scratched the hell out of my games for a month before they stopped playing and I figured out what was going on. Same as you, my console sits level on a solid entertainment stand. I play a good 12 feet back from the unit, there's no vibration, no accidental bumping..no chance of anything like this. It gouged the hell outta my games.

And that's what Microsoft said to me when I called them. "Sir, are you moving your unit while playing?"
I wanted to say "Yeah, I've perfected playing with one hand while I jab at my 360 with a 10 foot stick with the other. It adds excitement."

Instead I said "No. No I don't move the unit."
"Well you can't move the unit while playing."
"I just said I don't move the unit."

Then she got snarky and said MS doesn't cover disk scratching units outside of the 1 year warranty. It's not covered under the 3 year. I mentioned "But you just send me this console as a replacement a month ago. Doesn't that count for anything."
Her answer was no. It's covered for RROD, but not for disk scratching. That's still only covered under my original one year limited warranty. That'll be $170 to fix.

Luckily I had spent $75 on the extended warranty after my second console went. The took it back and replaced it with even an older console. Here's something I learned after that though. If you don't play your 360 console, instead playing a PS3 - the 360 doesn't cause any problems! I'm just glad it held in there to finish Gears 2 and Fable 2. If it dies again, I'm not replacing it.

[Ausbo]

this does not happen unless it is moved is that hard to comprehend all you homos. all this is just flamebait and another invalid reason for ps3 owners to bash the 360. Just like pirating and this probably affect .000000000001% of all 360 owners

[Cross113]

Watch the video they did not move one 360 while they were playing and it still scratched some games.

[TruthBTold]

PS3 owners went and created the RRoD and disk scratching, it doesn't really happen. Thats their way to get back at 360 by making up fake stories. /S A R C A S M

LOL you are probably a 12 year old kid who doesn't have to work in order to pay for your things. Unlike you there are many of us who work in order to buy our things and in this case our gaming consoles so while for you its a PS3 vs 360 thing, for many of us its about issues like this being addressed appropriately and since MS seems to be in a way avoiding it as much as possible where they loose a little bit compared to what they would loose if they actually took care of the problem becomes insulting to consumers.

Note to N4G staff: Please create sections where discussion forums are divided by age groups as well.

[karlostomy]

Come on, people... let's find some other things to bash MS with!

[JeepCreeper86]

When you have a disk in a Portable CD player do you sit there ad shake it? No... So why would you go and start moving your XBox around while playing a game? Stupidity... Lack of common sense... A reason to gripe? I have never had this problem because i dont move something that has a very fast rotating piece of soft plastic hovering less that 2 millimeters above another piece of hard plastic... If you have suffered from this then consider not doing it again... If you have had it happen more than once... Then you deserve it. M$ didnt stop production because this isnt an easily fixable problem... If it were then CDs/DVDs would never be ruined and no one would know how to "resurface" a disc. Think people, common sense goes a long way...

[JD_Shadow]

1. Three "defects of 360 were known" stories versus about 30 "PS3 is doomed" stories, and we get b!tchy fanboys for the THREE defect stories? At least this one is telling us of something new and is showing us some proof.
2. They didn't move the console during the time they were playing the game. Quit trying to spin this and slander what they did. Even if they did, that would be just one of the three they did (the other two, the first and third, they were on their sides, and the third one ended up being the worst one), thus that excuse cannot be used for all three of their studies.

[Mutley416]

You really think a big company would do a underhanded thing like this?
Naw big business would`nt...there are such a honest bunch...sarcasm

[ll_UNDERSCORE_ll]

OMG, is this breaking news to the public that Microsoft knew about their crappy console hardware? Microsoft reeled in 28 million suckers into buying their product with 3 yr warranties, So-called superior Online service, Overhyped franchises, and last gen game developing technology. Too bad these types of news articles will never hit mainstream media, cause consumers need facts like these when spending their hard earn money.

[Anon1974]

I certainly didn't know that 30-50% of launch consoles were defective. I heard horror stories on the forums but I figured these were just a vocal minority. MS said the fail rate was within the norms and we didn't need anything over the 90 day warranty.
I said fine, plunked down my cash and bought a launch console. Just over 90 days later I was left forking over $170 to MS to fix my first RROD. They eventually extended the warranty to one year and then refused to send me my money back, but I did get it eventually. Then slightly after the first year was up I got my second $170 rrod. I'm currently on my 4th console.

If I had any idea that the failure rate was that high there's no way I would have touched that product. An insider at EA reported that 50% of their launch consoles died on them and he was quickly hushed up and this was both denied by EA and Microsoft. It's not just that the 360 was a lousy product, it's that Microsoft actively hid the truth from consumers and used their influence to persuade others to do the same.

[Droid Control]

You got off easy... Should have gone to prison or been fined!

My friend can't even own a 360. He lives very close to a railway and the constant vibrations cause a 360 console to scratch discs. Don't have with his playstation 1,2, xbox original, gamecube and Wii though... hum...

[sit down droid]

because the 360 has a disk drive that spins the disk 12x faster than a normal disk. so there is more chance an strong vibration could jar the ODD.

[kewlkat007]

The next Xbox should be superior.

[TruthBTold]

This is MS second attempt and they have done well in my opinion in creating a nice gaming device except for the whole RRoD and disk scratching issues but I do feel they have learned from their mistake and will only improve on that in their 3rd machine. I feel I would be one to also purchase their next console because gamewise it will be great so hopefully they have worked out all their hardware problems.

[Anon1974]

TruthBTold said "This is MS second attempt and they have done well in my opinion in creating a nice gaming device except for the whole RRoD and disk scratching issues."

So aside from a third of consoles breaking down and other consoles mangling the disks it's supposed to play - the console's great! How can you even say that? So aside from the fact that a huge chunk of them don't work properly - they're good.

You know, I can see someone who's never had a 360 problem (and that's the majority) say the 360 is great and not know what all the fuss is about. Try spending over $900 on the console with XBL, controllers, extended warranties, wi-Fi, charge and play kits, more charge and play kits and then sit there with a launch copy of Halo 3, looking longingly at the space in your entertainment console where your 360 should be if it weren't busted for the 3rd time. Try not playing hundreds of dollars of games for 4 months in total because you don't have a console to play it on. Then try gaming, wondering whenever you turn the damn thing on "Is it going to die this time? What about now? I've been playing for over 30 minutes, maybe I should turn it off for a bit."

If Microsoft had learned from their mistake it wouldn't have taken them 3 years to fix the problem. Assuming they problem is even fixed. This isn't first time they've declared and end to RROD.

[Triniprince1420]

Are people still posting about the problems of the xbox? Wow, when is this nonsense going to stop, we already know about the problems and we already know Microsoft knew. But these dumb articles aren't helping fans to drop the Xbox. 360 is beating the PS3 senseless. Stop posting these articles that we've all heard and read about before. Can't you see fans don't care about that? Obviously if these articles were made to throw people off of the Xbox it would've worked by now, but it hasn't. This is another failed attempt to make 360 users go over to the PS3. Stop it already. PS3 sucks.

[JD_Shadow]

Like the PS3 is doomed stories failed to get anyone to change THEIR opinions?

Plus, you're final "PS3 sucks" thing at the end put the final nail in the coffin for your tired plea (especially when you're whining about three stories that all had significant info in them, more than what I can say for the PS3 doom stories).

[hotrider12]

what else is new??? this crap dont surprise me one bit. microsoft dont suprise me one bit. and the sad part ppl buy this sh't over and over again why?? just to drown ps3?? are these ppl that dumb to buy 360??

[hotrider12]

come on ppl!!! craps only reason any website add a blog is to lie to all of us so they can have hits. day in an day out thats all we read either about 360 or ps3...... and if you tell the truth you get banned from gamer zone

[ll_UNDERSCORE_ll]

Choose to forget? wow Microsoft has you even more brainwashed with your money if your thinking of the next gen xbox already. And trini prince these articles are not designed to make people switch over. Its all about consumer education for deciding to put down a few hundred into a console/accessories/games etc. Who are you going to look for answers when you pop in a 50 dollar halo wars game and comes out unplayable? Bungie? Incredibly their are consumers that actually look for information like this when buying a product. Unless it ain't your own money your spending(mommy/daddy).

[godofthunder10]

i like to know wky i always read articles like this but it never ever happened to me.I have to 360 and when we are playing them my wife sometimes will clean up at the same time.She always lift the 360 up from the front and dust under them every day and we never had problem like i'm always hearing about in these fanboys articles.

Well i guess if microsoft knew about this problem sony knew about the ps2s to.The ps2s had a defected drive in them.hell they had to be sued to fixed them.Sony tryed to deny that nothing was wrong with the ps2.After they lost they only gave an extra 2 month for people to get them fixed.After 2 months was over and your harddrive started acting up you had to buy a new one or pay to have it fixed.Every one i know had to buy at least 2 of then on an average of 2 years.I had to buy 4 in 5 years because of the peoblem.Still ps3 fanboys keep saying microsoft screwed the people because they gave a 3 year warrinty but sony only gave a 2 month warrinty on the defect in the ps2 but ps3 fanboys never talk about it.I guess that sony also knew about the defect in their computers a few years ago,The defect in their cameras.

These articles are getting so ridiculious that it's pittyful.I'm tired of reading ps3 fanboys articles about the defect in the 360 but they never talk about all the defect in sonys products.I can't belive how american try to destroy an American company so a company in Japan could win.It's people like this is why the U.S is in the shape it's in now.

Japan is already screwing the U.S in the trade act and now some American people are helping them to beat an American company.i think it's sick that Americans will take up for a company in Japan when they charge all kinds of fees just so we could send our products over their and on top of that we are only allowed so many products in japan.On the other hand the U.S don't charge Japan any fees to send their products here on top of that they send as much as they want.It will soon be over and Japan will have to start paying to send their products here.I don't like abama but this is one thing i agree with him on.When this happens sll of sony products will be higher.The people think that the ps3 was high when it first came out.Just think when the trade agreement is changed and japan have to pay fees to.

I don't have anything against Japan.They are smarter then the people from America that pulls for an Japaneese company.I think it was last year on g4 that they interviewed 2 writers from 2 game magazines in Japan.The writers took a survey on why Japaneese people refuse to buy American products.The majority said because they like to buy from companies in Japan so they can help their own economy out and a big percentage said that they just don't like buying anything from America.The fact is that this is why Japans economy stays a lot stronger then the U.S economy.

before this trade agreement the U.S economy was a lot stronger then Japans econony.When people started buying and pulling for a company in Japan it turn every thing aroung.people need to ask their selfs why is Japans economy is so much stronger then americans economy.The answer is people that buy forign products and try to help a a company in japan beat an american company and it makes me sick.I bet that you wont find anyone fron japan that act like ps3 fanboys do.I bet every time someone from japan read an article that a ps3 fanboy from the U.S wrote about an american products they laugh their a** off at them because they can't belive that they could be so stupid that they are trying to destroy an American company.This is what you call pathetic.

[Si-Pie]

Well my personal experience is this and just for the record I think the 360 is bad quality hardware just bad hardware with great games but anyway I had a launch day machine for 2 years until it RROD on me so sent it in and got a replacement model with a 2007 MFR date and ive always kept it in a horizontal position on my desk in my room. Got around 50 games which ive collected over the past 3 years and can honestly say there is only a few that have a few minor and I mean very minor scratches on them as im very fussy about keeping my discs clean and without scratches. Just my personal experience. But have got to say I think its so stupid of MS to not to have these pads put on the lense! Surely it wouldnt cost that much?

[dredgewalker]

I do understand why they love the 360 games, but what i dont understand is why the hell most people put up with faulty hardware. Ive seen people go through 3-6 360's in every forum ive been and they are committed fanboys. I work hard for everything i buy and so i buy things that are branded because i trust the people who are selling me their ware that it will last as long as i take care of it. I can put up with microsoft windows because there isnt any other os that can support a ton of games, but as far as consoles go at least i have a choice and so i went with the Sony route. Im not saying you should go my route but if you love your 360 then its about time you people tell Microsoft to give you a better product for your loyalty to them or else.

[yz250]

I do understand why they love the 360 games, but what i dont understand is why the hell most people put up with faulty hardware.<----you said why we we put up with "faulty" hardware. it's the games. why did people put up with disk read error last-gen on ps2? because of the games

[dredgewalker]

Im tired of the PS3 doom stories and tired of the RROD stories. I dont want either one of these consoles to go and be stuck with a Wii.

[rawd]

Quick bots, report the story!

[farhsa2008]

i honestly cant say im surprised, this is microshaft we are talking about

[yz250]

ty. dirtrider and i see eye to eye on a lot of things :)

[sit down droid]

i like pie :)

[dredgewalker]

Im just saying people who are loyal customers should be well taken care of. I dont mind the PS3 having competition because it makes them try hard to bring out good games and its the same with the 360. I dont want MS to go out of business, i cant imagine Sony dominating cause it would also be a bad thing. Lord knows how much more a PS3 would cost if it was the only console and i guess MS would bring out shoddier hardware and not give a damn if it was also the only console. Look what happened to the Wii, its not even trying to give gamers good games as long as lots of people buy it.

[peeps]

think my fallout 3 disk screwed. loaded my last save and its ok for maybe a minute but then my character starts 'bouncing' and drops through scenery, i can't interact with anything/anyone etc. tried several saves so its not that so thought i'd check the disk (cus its not something i usually bother with) and surprise surprise, plenty of scratches. i really hope thats not whats causing my problems.

[gnothe1]

this is why its hard to believe that guy DARKRIDE66, first he tries do hard to make the 360 seem inferior to the PS3,but then he says they wanted to charge him 170 to repair a 360. if anyone has had to pay for their system to get repaired would know that they charge 99 dollars to fix a system not 170. i had the 1 ROD which is not covered on the 3 year warranty just the 3RROD. an the charged me 99 dollars. I got 2 360's, mine an my kids an they both had the same problem E74 1 red rind. one I had to pay for an one was still kinda new so it was fixed under warranty. but still the price was 99 to repair, where did he get 170 from, more reason to think he's lying!! plus once MS announced the 3 year warranty, you could no longer buy an extended warranty for the 360. so where did he buy that at for 75 more dollars. isn't that 3 year warranty coming to an end, that means its been atleast 3 years were you couldn't buy an extended warranty for the 360, so how long ago was all these problems he keeps complaining about!!

[MerkinMax]

That GOD blessed my 360 and made it invincible.

[Tony P]

I wouldn't mind if this article went away at all. It's not that it doesn't present valid points, it's just that all of them have been made by better articles months ago. There's no new information here.

[jro211]

Come on. Everyone is backing Microsoft even though the knowingly pushed out a faulty product just to beat Sony. What kind of BS is that. Do you hate Sony that much that you are willing to buy unreliable products that is going to cost you in the long run. RRoD, time lost for owners. Scratched discs: I don't recall Microsoft offering refunds for games. You might be able to get an exchange at the place of purchase but again, that takes time. If you don't have a receipt, good luck. It blows my mind that Microsoft was that hell bent to beat Sony; all the while screwing the customer over. The least they could have done was extend the warranty.

[RebornSpy]

So much anti-360 articles today! Teh Bias!

[firetaw]

Stop the whole sony will fail compain and those nasty xbox hardware failure reports probably wont disapear because they will never stop posting bluray and sony will fail and are doomed. and do you know the real solution MS will have to this 360 hardware failure. just look at the original xbox and see how fast they stop making those. 720 will be out next year and moments later the 360 will be obselete. good job lying about the 10 year life cycle of 360. all wishfull thinking of there part because they have always planed a console only has a 5 year life cycle and they decided that it wasnt profitable or were unable to make that kind of risk on there product. so we will always see a 5 year life cycle from microsofts part.

[mattolla]

ROFL
I still have my launch 360 which works perfect. No disk scratching, no RROD.
I know of 4 people at my work who have had issues with their 360's. 2 had problems with "scratching disks". When they called MS customer support, they were told "sorry, this is not covered under warranty". The console for one of the guys was 3 months old.(Luckily Wal-mart took it back)LOL>(they take anything back)

[Knightofelemia]

After seeing this i went to check all my 360 games and they are scratched the system was layed flat and was not moved while on. A brand new copy of Left 4 Dead looks like i baught it used, and my system was built in 2008. This is the last XBOX I buy i am sticking with the Playstation go a head disagree with me i don't care Xbox has not won me over i had more problems with it than i had with my PS3 and Wii

[DJ]

"Of course it scratches discs while you move the console; all consoles do that", congratulations.

You All Look Like Retards.

Watch the video, and you'll see that Xbox 360 consoles, even when placed on their sides, even when placed on a level surface, even without any floor vibrations whatsoever, STILL SCRATCH GAME DISCS.

When placed in a natural environment (such as a house or apartment), the number of scratched discs goes up exponentially. PS1, PS2, Xbox, Gamecube, Dreamcast, Wii, and PS3 have never had this problem, even when deliberately moved while running a game.

Why the 360? It's simple. Microsoft cut corners during design and manufacturing, and consumers are paying the price. Defending Microsoft's illegal actions will only make the situation worse.

[ZeVeX]

Dunno if that's 100% true, i went through 4 PS2's 2 of them did scratch my discs, but i guess i was jus unlucky or something, glad to report my 60gig launch PS3 still working perfectly tho!

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Now I had at least 4 PS2's. Reason they scratched disc were the optical eye resets itself when started. With having a disc into the drive, it offsets the eye. That causing scratched discs. People need to stop bashing MS about this because Sony had it fair share of scratch problems also. Why don't people do an investigative reports of how many scratched disc the PS2 had. But I cannot put all blame on Sony for my PS2. Some people do not know how to take care of electronics.

[mrdxpr2]

ok we get it... ms knew about the proba... now stop this darn news articles they are all the same is there something new this old..

[jessehaysfl]

Microsoft rushed there console. thats why they have that many more good games now, soon ps3 will reach the same level of games that are good due to the time frame that it has "been out" in. win for everyone. xboxers got what they wanted and ps3 owners are getting what they want. the only people that suffer are rroders and they get there problems fixed for free in most cases. everyone wins.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

MS should have took their time with quality assurance for the 360 before it launched. Now they have a 3-year warranty.

[BX81]

I'm actually on my 3rd console it red ringed on friday(elite) I bought it used from gamestop and they had no 360's to exchange for it so I was told to wait till someone turned one in. I was also told it was not an elite system! It was just a black 360! Any way I called Microsoft and thank god it was still under it's original warranty, I mailed it out today. There is a difference between being a loyal customer and being mistreated. Microsoft knew they had problems with the system but I don't think that they anticipated it being to this extent. I'm think I'm going to move on to a PS3 but they are so expensive.

[ZeVeX]

Yeh but it's also a blu-ray player and you can upgrade the HDD, Free Online and it's very reliable. Get what you pay for.

[borgome]

I'm on my 5th xbox, they've all been replaced for free, and every single one of them scratched the sheat out of my games.

[Darkseider]

Watched the video and there is some very compelling evidence in it. The parts where the units were on a steel level table on shock absorbing pads on a concrete floor as a control was the kicker for me. The XBox 360 still scratched discs in a control environment. The test in the "living room" situation without the shock proof floor, etc... showing the scratching was even more of a wow factor. The fact that MS is trying to double talk their way out of the test results is also a bunch of crap. To me this is just another example of why I will not get a MS product.

[MrJack]

They assumed this would only affect a small number of 360's (They were wrong) so they quickly released it to get an advantage, and hey, technically it has worked for them, they are leading the PS3 in sales, but at the cost of losing loyal customers in the process. I happen to know some who say they will never buy another Microsoft Console.

[bobdog626]

This is very OLD new's .At 30mil you Guys think the Xbox360 is a Flop?199.99vs399.99 .Buy you a New One.You still come out Cheaper than buying a PS3.No Headphone / NoHdmi cable .

[da_hitman81]

and ppl complain that the PS3 costs more money. this seems like it would cost you more.

anyway YAWN!!!!! Heard this story so many times i guess the new thing about it was that i hear it in a different language.

[bobdog626]

No Backward compatibility/ I had RROD but Microsoft fixed it for Free.It took only 2wk's and i had it for 3yr's .Now if I had the PS3 that long and it Broke down ,let's see 599.99 plus 150.00 to repair.hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[JHUX]

Well next time yours breaks since your 3 years are up it will be $150.00 for you to. Then the fact that the only reason they have a 3year warranty is due to the massive amount of console failures they had, they couldn't just sit back and ignore it like they tried initially. Really nothing to be proud of.
If your ps3 has worked for 3 years, then chances are it wont be breaking unless you do something to it, or you are a very unlucky few (like myself, but was within warranty).

I will award your argument with a "fail".

[tristanmike]

Whoever are shouting, "We don't need to hear about this anymore"..... SHUT THE EFF UP.

That is *EXACTLY* the attitude that Microsoft wants you to have. If any of you even watched the videos that's one of the points they discussed, several times.

Microsoft wants you to help sweep the problem under the rug, so to speak.

Why is this article important compared to others on N4G ? Well, it's done by an actual TV show and not some stupid blogger.

Second, it backs up its findings with actual testing, not just hear-say or opinion.

Third, they actually had real lawyers (not that I care much for lawyers), and a real president of a real company who distributes the consoles on to discuss the issue.

When bloggers post their opinions, that shouldn't be considered "news", however, when a popular TV Show or newspaper (no matter where they're located) provides a story, then yes, it should be up here, no matter which console fanboy has hurt feelings.

As a consumer, *these* are the articles I need to read/see, not some stupid 15 year old who discovers that he can say/be/do anything their little heart desires on the interwebs and does so in blog form.

Personally, I think that unless it's a company blog (ie. Playstation Blog, MajorNelson Blog), *NO* blog should be allowed as a "news" story. Perhaps there should be a new section on N4G just for blog "news" (and I use the term "news" loosely).

[Rooster15]

Get off their backs already! They garanty the damn thing 3 years (RROD) and the scratching occurs with maybe 1-2% of the population. Even if they knew about it, they are there to run a buisness, and like everything in MS history they ran with it saying to themselves: we'll fix and learn on the way. I know they aren't angels, but come on...

bottom line...(IN KEEP IN MIND ITS AN OPINION, that I share with alot of people believe it or not.) The 360 has a better gaming experience in general, and definetly on XBL. (I have both consoles so I'm not biased.)

For me, its been 3 yrs and I've never called MS...not once.

POINT: This is being blown way out of proportion.
Reading comments on N4G gives the impression that MS is the AntiChrist
They are no better or worse that SONY (which aren't angels either)

[JHUX]

1-2% of the population lol...If only. I'm not the biggest fan Microsoft as a company for numerous reasons, but that doesn't stop me from buying their products. You are right saying neither of the companies are angels, but for me I have had much more complains towards products from Microsoft than I have had towards Sony. I Have said below this that I am sick of seeing these type of articles from both sides of the playing field, as it is obviously common knowledge, but it was a real problem, and to an extent still is, and I can't say it was ever blown out of proportion. They deserved every bit of hammering that they got, and in my opinion it was defended to much, but it's now old news for me. Instead of continuing to bash them for it now, I will just be very hesitant before purchasing anything from Microsoft (whether it be there next console, or windows 7), until I know I won't be purchasing something that is just going to give me more problems than it's worth.

[JHUX]

This is well known knowledge that Microsoft rushed out the 360, to gain the lead on Sony, and obviously everyone knows the result of that..terrible hardware which equals a very unstable system. I think just about everyone knows this and we don't need more news about it. Same goes for the even larger amount of anti-ps3 news on this website. This is News4gamers, not News4fanboys, plus it is a lot less likely to experience a rrod now with the new systems (not sure on disk scratching).

With all that said I find it very funny to see a lot of the people who you see approving "ps3 is doomed" "blu-ray is dead" "sony failed hard" type articles in here b*tching about these articles "not being news", then go on about how ps3 fanboys are the worst!

If I remember correctly the PS2 wasn't the most reliable system in the world either. Although it wasn't to the extent of the 360 (right now it holds the crown), I went through a total of 3 myself (learned my lesson after the 1st one and bought the warranty). Keep in mind I kept my ps2 on the floor till the 3rd one, then realized that it sucks up dust (my stupidity). I have even been through one ps3 myself (80 GB motorstorm bundle), other than the initial anger of having it die on me, I have no other complaints due to Sony's support being very quick and easy.
Then my cousin bought the 360's that were the ones after the launch failure ones, and his has never had a problem, but he has lost one ps3.

Morale of my rant that pretty much went off topic.. warranties are worth the money. 60percent of the time it will work everytime.

[shelbygt33]

and edit - i did watch all the videos, but my anecdotal evidence is that I've only known people with scratched discs caused by moving. That's not to say that the problem isn't real. Stupid me posting before watching, HA!

edit edit - did anyone else realize that the reatiler BOL.com said that they had experienced less than 1% of their customers complain about the Xbox? Kinda puts the 33% claim by an Australian retailer in doubt a little bit (although I know overall the % is higher than 1)

[JHUX]

I do know people that have had there game scratched up without moving it around, but you are right it is much more likely to happen if you move your console while it's on with a disc in. I really wouldn't say anyone deserves it even if they did move it, due to the fact that a lot of dvd players, etc etc... wont have any problems with scratching if you move it while its in on. It can also happen accidental, especially if you ever have younger kids in your house, I know my ps3 has been moved like that with a game in and on, but you don't have to worry about that with the ps3. So yes I would say it's a defect.

[Ausbo]

UNLESS YOU MOVE YOUR CONSOLE. ALL YOU GUYS ARE DOING IS GIVING THE PS3 FANBOYS ANOTHER STUPID THING TO PISS ABOUT. REMEMBER THIS SITE IS 70% PS3 FANBOYS AND THE OTHER 30% ARE XBOX AND NINTENDO.

[cjflora]

Only 30% xbox users? Then how do we keep getting flooded with all of these ridiculous PS3 failure stories? Learn how to do math.

[JHUX]

I am pretty sure the "elite 360 fanboys" that used to take up this whole website are still roaming around, it's just not as lopsided.

[cjflora]

I get so sick of everyone justifying the 360 problems with "they had to do it to compete" bull crap. Microsoft KNEW that the 360 had problems and was defective, and they decided to to push it out anyway to get an upper hand. All this does it tell us that Microsoft is more concerned about money than putting out a quality product. Yea, it's a business and their goal is to make money, but not at the expense of the consumers. This is not an excuse. It's a greedy company who doesn't care who they're screwing as long as they get their money, and feel that they are "winning". Who cares about the one's buying it right?

[PPnoPP]

Which idiot mod is keep on allowing a DUPLICATE news?