Forza Motorsport vs Gran Turismo 7: the Digital Foundry tech breakdown

The ultimate comparison between the graphics and tech of Gran Turismo 7 and Forza Motorsport.

[darthv72]

I have been following John's tweets over the course of this production. I like them both, but I know this is going to divide some and not change the minds of others.

[RaidenBlack]

yea, I've been following his tweets as well ... this project/analysis has been in development for quite a while, he's been tweeting his findings for quite some time.

[_SilverHawk_]

if you prefer realism in car games or the best racing simulator then gran turismo wins. if you need to ask which is the better racing simulator then you dont know about both franchises. forza is normally a good racing game but gran turismo has always been better. its quite funny that forza normally has better review scores over gran turismo when gran turismo games are better.

[Babadook7]

So he gives GT7 the 🏆

GT7 has more realistic vs more flashy design goals.

GT7 uses a bit better rendering techniques like planar reflections. A bit higher quality models.

I’ll add that GT7 takes far more time to make.

[badz149]

@Babadook7

Forza was developwd from the geound up though...

[VenomUK]

I just had Google Bard break down the article into bullet points to save me the trouble of reading:

"Bullet points summarising the comparison of Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo 7:

Car rendering: Forza Motorsport has a slight edge in car rendering, particularly in the wheels and dashboards.

Paint shaders: Forza Motorsport's paint shaders have improved compared to Forza 7, bringing them closer to Gran Turismo 7's level of detail.

Reflections: Gran Turismo 7 produces darker and more accurate reflections than Forza Motorsport, especially on shiny black surfaces.

Tracks: Gran Turismo 7 models Spa in pristine condition during the early season, while Forza Motorsport depicts a more dusty and weathered state later in the season.

Surroundings: Both games render the surrounding environment beautifully, with Forza Motorsport's sky, trackside objects, and distant hills being arguably more detailed than Gran Turismo 7's tree placement.

Performance: Forza Motorsport offers higher frame rates than Gran Turismo 7 on PC.

Overall: Both Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo 7 are impressive visual showcases for their respective platforms. Forza Motorsport's strengths lie in its more detailed car models, reflections, and performance, while Gran Turismo 7 excels in its overall track presentation and atmosphere. The choice between the two ultimately depends on individual preferences and priorities."

[dumahim]

@VenomUK
That doesn't seem like a good summary. Especially the part about car rendering. It's completely ignoring how John pointed out that GT7 shows much more detail in places like headlights and tail lights. Also, Forza is still using incorrect and ancient car models.

Performance, GT7 isn't even on PC. GT7 has a mode for 120 fps. Can anyone currently run Forza at 120 fps consistently on PC? I just saw a video of a guy with a pretty decent rig and struggles to hit 100, regardless of resolution and suffers big drops.

Tracks, I recall John's point about later season depiction of the track was about a single location, Laguna Seca because GT has typically shown the track with more greenery than Forza due to the season.

[Babadook7]

@Venom

This is an inaccurate summery, and seems to be written by someone looking to spin things more in favour of the Xbox version.

Forza does not have an edge in car models. It’s the opposite.

With trees Forza has more dense placement but less accurate. You can’t claim that as a win though and John does not count it as a win. It might even be a cover up of less geometry behind the trees which GT goes to pains to include.

There’s no mention of the PC version having higher framerates either. It's about SX vs PS5.

In the end John (and the whole DF team) gives a clear WIN to GT7, and they call out Forza for not even caring about their work.

[ocelot07]

@VenomUK

"Performance: Forza Motorsport offers higher frame rates than Gran Turismo 7 on PC"

That part has confused me a little. GT7 ain't available on PC is it?

[MrDead]

I would love GT to come to PC, I know that won't happen though.

The love that goes into GT kind of makes Forza sound bad, it's not. Forza is a great racing game (the latest release does seem to be their weakest though) but it's not on the level of GT.

[darthv72]

I don't see why it shouldn't. Sony would make some more $$ by having it come to PC/VR. Maybe it has to do with the modding community and how crazy they could potentially go.

[Hereandthere]

You need true exclusives to sell consoles. Dont play dumb, you know that. Pc money is peanuts compared to how many will steal it on pc. Not worth it.

[darthv72]

^^and yet there were other PS5 exclusives that have made their way to PC. GT7 is just another one that could benefit from the extra sales. Don't get so upset over it... it is what it is.

[dumahim]

I think PC is still possible as with the rest of the Sony stuff. But their stance on the always online and the FIA stuff does make me think they might avoid it as well.

[slate91]

"Pc money is peanuts compared to how many will steal it on pc."

I really can't believe what I read on this site sometimes.

[MrDead]

I could just buy a PS, I don't think Sony needs to put GT on PC, I would love them too but I understand why they don't.

[Michiel1989]

@hereandthere I don't think GT is as much of a system seller as it used to be. It would make more sense if they kept Horizon, GoW and TLOU exclusive if they wanna go that route. I'm happy they are releasing them on pc though.

If they release their exclusives on pc 1 year after launch, I might even consider not getting a ps6 and just getting the controller. 500+ more that I will be able to spend on upgrading my pc.

[TheColbertinator]

@hereandthere

Look at you. All wrong and so certain you are right. Terrific.

[jwillj2k4]

Just wait till GT is not cross-gen it’ll blow forza away even more

[Brazz]

In short, GT7 wins.

[eagle21]

As usual. Kazunori Yamauchi doesn't fool around. :P

[frostypants]

I'm still not a fan of the whole cafe menu thing instead of a true career mode. And I preferred GT Sport's more straightforward UI. They nailed the actual racing though.

[VariantAEC]

The cafe system is a means to unlock more events. As per usual the campaign really comes from playing through all the events available like in all other GT games which still had progression blockers (mostly in the form of license tests in the past). GT7's campaign is arguably the most open-ended.

[BehindTheRows]

Of course GT7 looks better. Sometimes, a lot better.

[Aloymetal]

Not only that but it's a cross gen game. PD is on another level.

[crazyCoconuts]

And it came out over a year earlier. Playground Games had more time and knew what their competition had and still couldn't best them

[darthv72]

^^I think you mean Turn 10... Playground did the Forza: Horizon games and is working on Fable.

[Ironmike]

I think k this yrs forza is not as good graphics wise as other entries ht7 is my pick it just feels better with haptic feed back

[RaiderNation]

Glad I have a PS5 and GT7. I've probably played it more than any other game this gen!

[darthv72]

Having played it with a wheel and VR2... game changer.

[Astrokis]

Seriously, I was like ok this is the next level in gaming experiences. Haven’t felt that wow feeling since the ps2 to ps3 transition as a teen

[BrettAwesome]

I have VR2. Is this game worth getting a wheels for?

[Ozzy2407]

Its total awesome in VR with a wheel just feels so realistic you cant go back to flat screen after VR

[Babadook7]

@Darth

Yeah, I do love GT7 with the DualSense and motion steering, however after getting a wheel (g29) I have been enjoying it even more. I can't stop playing, RE4 is on hold even!

"Is this game worth getting a wheels for?"

@Brett
Yes it is. But here are the downsides.

1 The wheel (and wheel stand) takes up more space. This makes jumping from RE4 (for example) to GT7 more cumbersome.

2 If you have a smaller living room it might be a bit of an eye sore.

3 The cost is significant. If you get a wheel stand you can save money with this guy. It's pretty decent. https://a.co/d/j35TOHN

The upsides are

1 You have better control of your car and it's easier to get all gold in license tests (pedals offer more braking precision in particular).

2. You will feel your cars traction more physically, which improves immersion. You can feel on the wheel the roads bumps and loss of traction IE drift.

[VariantAEC]

My PS annual wrap up shows I played GT7 the most by far. Only Horizon Forbidden West even came close. Surprised that Marvel's Spider-Man 2 didn't make the cut I know I spent more than 11 hours playing that, yet AC:C was my 5th most played game not MSM2 somehow.

[Binarycode]

GT7 is on another level.

It destroys Forza and it's cross-gen while Forza was (built from the ground up)lol

[Aloymetal]

Took those words out of my mouth. 100% facts!

[frostypants]

Back in the Forza 3 days I actually preferred Forza, but man did they lose their way.

[Ironmike]

Even though I prefer gt not once fid he say it totally destroyed forza

[VariantAEC]

Digital Foundry gets kickbacks from Microsoft. They don't want to offend Microsoft or their very small die-hard Xbox fanbase.

[Babadook7]

In the end he said he was aiming to make no determination of the winner (let the viewers decide) but in the end he made the clear call. As such he wasn't saying things like one destroyed the other but when you add up the points, yes, Forza got destroyed.

[Einhander1972]

Of course GT looks better, heck all the cars in Forza look like they are made of plastic, and none of the interior materials look accurate. But it's the details in GT7 where it just looks generations ahead.

But who even cares about the graphics... the thing they should be comparing is how realistic is the experience aka the physics and the computer driver AI. This is a simulation game.

And in both of those things GT is literally two generations or more ahead.

Ya know, after GT Sport Turn 10 said they were going back to the drawing board and I assumed they were going to improve the physics and AI to match GT Sport, but no when Forza was released it became obvious that they are basically still using the same physics and AI from the xbone games.

Meanwhile GT7 improved upon GT Sport which was already a generation ahead.

[purple101]

Meanwhile GT7 improved upon GT Sport which was already a generation ahead.

This is totally correct. what blows my mind, is Gt7 had to be cross gen, along with god of war ragnarok, due to console shortages covid times]

imagine if that wasn't the case, and it was ps5 only, they could have pushed further..

roll on gT8

[Aloymetal]

GT8 will be a beauty no doubt, Polyphony always push the hardware to its limits.

[EvertonFC]

GT8K ? Maybe

[dumahim]

"But who even cares about the graphics..."

It's Digital Foundry. That's what they do.

"Turn 10 said they were going back to the drawing board and I assumed they were going to improve the physics and AI to match GT Sport, but no"

I've been seeing people speculating that whatever rebuild they had been working on got scrapped and they went back and just updated FM7 again. This would make sense with the 6 year development cycle and barely any improvements to be found.

[Einhander1972]

"It's Digital Foundry. That's what they do."

I know, I am just trying to emphasize what I think is really the important thing when it comes to a sim racer.

GT is all about realism, from graphic to physics and AI.

[Yi-Long]

It’s a shame that after 6 years orso since the last Forza Motorsport, this new release seems arguably (much) worse than 7 and 4, in terms of content, value for money, track-selection, etc. Haven’t played the new one, it so can’t comment on how good/bad it is, but after having high hopes for the game (I’ve played most Forza games ever since the original Xbox) it’s sad that in the 1-2 years leading up to its launch every new bit of information about the new game pretty much killed all my interest in it. I doubt I’ll ever pick it up, TBH, unless they start adding a lot of interesting cool tracks.

Haven’t tried GT7 (yet), mostly because it remains very expensive, and I didn’t care all that much about GT Sport, but judging by the comparison videos it looks a bit more impressive, plus seems to have far more content in terms of tracks.

[purple101]

its been down to £30, yes its back up to £50 but the amount of hours you get from it.....

sod paying £60-70. always wait a month, it always goes down.always

[Binarycode]

https://store.ee.co.uk/prod...

Cheap

[dumahim]

Whatever you do, don't pick up FM yet. You might have fun for a bit and there's plenty of people out there saying they're enjoying it, but you will find stuff to annoy you. Especially the online stuff with the broken penalty system giving huge penalties for stuff you couldn't even avoid. Take a look at the forza sub on reddit. It has historically been very protective about Forza and now it's pretty evenly split with negativity and indifferent. Pretty low amount of positivity. The game award for accessibility got way more talk then best sports/racing game, which many thought was either a joke or just everything else wasn't good.

[RupeeHoarder]

Ouch.... Cross-Gen almost 2 year old game beat Forza. See the fun you been missing on the racing front for 2 years Xboxers?

[Zeref]

Lol just because it "looks" better to DF doesn't mean it's the better game lol, we ain't missing shit. IMO Forza looks better and more realistic, while GT is just unrealistically shiny. Forza has been the king since the 360 era and still is. Nobody but Playstation fanboys care about GT anymore. Actual racing fans play Forza.

Forza (both Motorsport and Horizon 5) are consistently in the top 10 most played games on Xbox(including PC) while on Playstation GT7 barely makes the top 25 lol

https://ps-timetracker.com/...

https://imgur.com/a/9OVqX1Z

[RupeeHoarder]

They literally said it's a better game. The last portion of the video was features, events, UI etc. lololololol

[Hypertension140]

@Zeref

OK, PLEASE explain why you think Forza is the better game.

Having played both games, im struggling to find how ANYONE can come to that conclusion.

[Hofstaderman]

Did GT touch you on your Fotza? Lol

[shinoff2183]

Zeref, gt is clearly the better game. Yall used swear by digital foundry. Man that's changed. And of course forza I in xbox top 10 consistently, I don't need to add to that you figure it out. It'll be alright dude.

[CrashMania]

So much copium in one post.

[Hypertension140]

Finally this video was made, I've been trying too tell people how much better GT7 looks, especially to that loser obscure.

"Just wait until the digital foundry analysis" was one of his comments.

He sounded so confident.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

So you saying crow has been served?

[PhillyDonJawn]

I think this go around GT finally beats Forza.

[Einhander1972]

Finally... FMS7 doesn't even beat GT Sport and certainly not FMS6 on xbone.

And when it comes to physics and realism Forza has never beat GT even GT5 on PS3 was way more realistic than any Forza on 360 then they dialed that up with GT6.

[PhillyDonJawn]

Highly disagree. Forza has had GTs number for quite some time. That's the problem with fanboys they'll never admit when a rival tops their favorite. To say sport was better than FM6 is just HS

[Einhander1972]

"That's the problem with fanboys they'll never admit when a rival tops their favorite."

Hmm... interesting for you to say that...

[Abnor_Mal]

I really need to get back to GT7, I only started the introductory races and then got distracted. Then again that’s what the winter and PSVR2 is for, to tackle the backlog and be immersed in virtual reality of it all.

[darthv72]

VR2 & a good wheel... greatness is here.

[Abnor_Mal]

Thrustmaster T150 wheel sitting in a box because I recently moved and haven’t decided if I want to make my small photo studio/office also my vr space.

[darthv72]

NICE!!! I have the same wheel. I love that i can use it on PS3, 4 & 5. I need to get me one of those wheel stands to make it more stationary. I dont think i would go that far as to get a full on racing seat but you never know.

[Abnor_Mal]

Yes, it’s a very good wheel with a good amount of rotation and rumble. It’s an added bonus that it works on many different consoles and not just one.

I use a folding tv dinner tray table and attach the wheel. I put a fifteen pound weight on the table behind the wheel for stability and do the same for the pedals so they don’t move during intense driving moments.

Would love to go for a full wheel pedals and seat frame set up, the kinds that has hydraulics to raise and lower as well and rumble, but that’s a pipe dream.

[0hMyGandhi]

All this video does it make me want a new Wipeout.
Bring back the "wacky" types of racing games -- Split/Second, BLUR, Full Auto, Extreme-G.
Hell, imagine what a Hydro Thunder game would look like with how good we've gotten with water simulation.

[darthv72]

Play redout... that's a good wipeout-esq game. And I think its part of PS+.

[purple101]

ahh man, you bring me back.

here's another for you,

WAVERACE64

[Abnor_Mal]

I saw this comment earlier and wondered why no JetMoto love.

[purple101]

Jet Moto.(ps1)
Wacky Racers. (Dreamcast)
looney toons space race (Dreamcast)

Ohh baby.. on a similar note. I always had a soft spot for "snowboard kids" n64.

And indeed ssx etc it all. You can count snowboarding, as your technically racing to the bottom of the mountain, all be it, on a board, not in a car.

[Destiny1080]

another rushed no passion effort from phil and friends, if you want gran turismo legendary quality there's only one way to get that

[purple101]

gets particularly destroyed on framerate, when they slow it down at 57.17 approx, gt7 looks sharper while still being smoother.

[ravens52]

So many xbots were saying the opposite after Destins 2nd video. Dang, lol.

[anast]

Not even a fair fight. They need to make a new Horizon because Motor Sport is janky.

[dumahim]

I like how John really highlighted the difference in the car lighting at night. Especially the tail lights. That's always been a big annoyance for me in Forza games. They're just so dim. Some cars you can barely tell the brake is being used compared to just the tail lights being on. At 30:29, the Miata in the unlit part of the track, the tail lights are just so dim on the Forza side. Why? I've seen 60s Beetles with brighter tail lights.

[DivineHand125]

Gt7 does seem it has the advantage based on the comparison video. It's winnings come from mostly small differences. GT7 has been out for 2 years and have received several updates since launch and it is possible Forza may receive some updates to address some of the issues in the future.

They are both good looking games and if you are a car enthusiast, you should have a good time with either game.

[ApocalypseShadow]

The problem is that Sony has better physics, AI and detail. And Polyphony pushes to the point that they defy the system they are working on. Starting with GT 1. With VR, Sony's game just blows away Microsoft's with a cross gen title. Every time Microsoft tries to get close, Sony pulls away. Like with the controller and VR. And when they had FIA support.

[DivineHand125]

I don't see Sony being ahead as a problem and I am not a fan of these racing Sims to be able to give an accurate comparison of the physics and AI between the 2 games.

The trend we often see on the Microsoft games that have been released on game pass is that they tend to get quality of life updates after release. This can be seen with Red fall and Starfield.

Some of the differences between the 2 racing games are very small that can be fixed in an update though I don't expect it to be a 1 to 1 comparison by the end. They will still have features that one up each other.

[BillyCrystals]

I'm not a sim racer but I heard fans went nuts over GT's 1.40 update.

[Crows90]

Okay I gotta say...someone is definitely missing from the chat. Wonder why he isn't commenting as usual.

[repsahj]

Because he cannot believe that he said he would wait for the DF analysis video comparing the two. Haha. XD

[vTuro24]

I have to say, the cars look way better in GT7. The environments were closer, but I liked GT7 more often than not and appreciate the accuracy to the irl tracks there. The damage model in Forza does look way better tho.

[dumahim]

Damage model is definitely better, but I could have sworn they did a video about it being more accurate when they first started talking about it. It's still doing what it's always done. Example, you can side-scrape another car not very hard but you still get damage showing in places that never made contact. It's more of the doing things to be more flashy than realistic.

[bigfish]

Still puzzled why Forza gets those review scores, thought about this and the only reasoning I can come up with is that Forza may have the wow factor when first played, perhaps the first 5 hrs or so, and then that dissipates the longer you play. However this is not picked up by reviewers as they don't spend long enough with the game.

Whereas GT7 may not have the same impact as Forza at first but you are only scratching the surface even 100hrs in. It's a game that gets better the more you play. The level of detail on the car models is breathtaking but again you may not notice this if you have a limited time to review the game.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Realism comes across as boring to casuals who just want to jump into a game and race. They love the other title with the same name because it allows them to plow through trees and fences and all that. And, Microsoft heavily advertises and controls media.

GT is trying to be a good, console driving simulator. Good physics, good AI, good training for driving. Which is why GT gets real race car drivers out of it, gets concept cars out of it from car manufacturers and support from fans that like to drive mostly without doing the bumper cars online. The FIA notices it too that Sony is trying to legitimize virtual driving.

It's not that casual racing isn't fun. It can be. But there's a difference between developers when one producer pushes attention to detail that goes beyond the hardware they are developing on that even a cross gen title bests a next gen title. And, Kaz is a real race car driver. So there's personal input. And Sophie runs rings around Microsoft's driving avatars they used to push as innovative.

Forza is just a lesser copy of Sony's flagship title that goes more for flash than substance. And it shows.

[dumahim]

Most game reviewers aren't car/race enthusiasts. To a general gamer, things seem good, so the scores reflect that. I think this is the kind of game you have to go to the people who focus solely on racing games to get their opinion.

[isarai]

Why does Forza lack specular highlights?

[Zenzuu]

In short Gran Turismo 7 won deservingly so as well.

[FlameWater]

Why wasn't PC graphics compared as well?

[repsahj]

Wait for GT7 pc release. XD

[Umb]

Having watched the video, sounds like an attempt to limit GT7 pounding the inferior Forza with really padded words to make it sound less worse than GT7. Notice how he refers to how this Forza is still better than the last Forza, blah blah..., when the comparison is with GT7 so why bring it up?
He nit picks things and try to justify it, it looks better or more realistic driving at night with extra flood lights for safety. Or how "Forza is more even handed when it comes to the rear lights" compared to GT7's LED approach at night, seriously? At times it looked like Forza's rear lights running on a AA battery. Brake lights is meant to shine bright!!!

[repsahj]

That's DF for you. They will always say "weird" or "bug/glitch" when it comes to MS games shortcomings..

[CrashMania]

DF can't risky upsetting daddy Phil. It's crazy how much of the gaming media act like MS apologists.

[VariantAEC]

The real Xbox Tax negatively affects Nintendo and PS favoring Microsoft Xbox.

[Einhander1972]

I found it funny that he had to "talk with the team" before he decided to declare GT7 the winner. The way he worded it came across as needing manager approval or something.

[Rimeskeem]

So GT7 went for realism while Forza went for something?

[Destiny1080]

they went with textures instead of wheels for better arcade handling

[repsahj]

I already know the GT7 looks and plays better. But because of this video, I appreciate GT7 even more. Great job PD for making this game.

[DarXyde]

It's a bit of a mixed bag depending on your priorities. Wins for each in different areas. This was a really good breakdown of tech differences.

At the end of the day though, I really don't know that Forza has much claim as a tour de force. It's trading blows with a cross gen game, despite having a texture update applied and more raw power to work with. Damage, yes. That's an objective win for Forza. But I think Forza SHOULD be definitively better because GT7 it has more to work with on Series X.

It isn't, and that's just odd to me.

[MaximusPrime_]

I'm halfway through watching the video. DF team certainly put a lot of time preparing this video. Great comparison. I never played Forza so it's good to see how close to GT7 they can be.

PD spent a lot of times preparing GT7, while Turn 10 released a couple of Forza games in between.

Goes on to show why Gran Turismo continued to have their slogan "the real driving simulator". I loved the amount of works done to every vehicles, particularly the headlights and the rear. Beautiful.

Not surprised to hear people saying that GT7 came out top in this comparison video. I'll finish the remaining half later. :D

[gold_drake]

GT7 is the better one out of the two

[Father__Merrin]

This is the worst forza I've ever played. It's such a bore and feels like basic checkpoint races one after the other.

Even tuning between races is a chore so it's best to use the auto tune upgrade option. Music in menus is horrendous

[Richhard1]

The world of gaming would be a place if only one definitive racer was created using the mindsets of both Sony and Microsoft, unite please. Stop this competitive arrogancy.

[46player]

GT7 is much better visually. GT7 excels at in-car driving, the feel is very realistic when in-car.

Forza is fun, but it is very basic and can become repetitive quickly. The actual driving, once you disable most assists, feels gritty and realistic. Honestly, Forza feels very unfinished/unpolished.

[Ironmike]

If actually read the article gt dose not wipe the floor with forza it's very close and he said he preferred gt7 but it was totally subjective cos some might preferred forza but I fo prefer gt but nothe outside the car view it's awful