Digital Foundry Forza Motorsport tech review: a pleasing upgrade for series veterans

Six years and five days have passed since the release of Forza Motorsport 7, and Turn 10 Studios have been hard at work on a new entry in the beloved racing series.

[darthv72]

For anyone wondering... yes John will be doing a comparison video of GT7 and this game but it wont be until next month.
https://twitter.com/dark1x/...

[purple101]

twitter down in UK btw, on safari MacBook, works on android app.

[z2g]

I can tell you right now as an owner of GT7 on PS5 and now playing Forza MS on Series X (both with VRR, HDR etc and yes I sprung for the premium and "took a trip to New Zealand" for early access) Forza Motorsport is better IMO. It looks better, it runs amazing, the simulation is just as good if not better now than Gran Turismo (the one lead I would always give GranTurismo no matter what) and it also and importantly to me isn't silly like gran turismo 7. they aren't trying to make it a "game". its just racing and racing events and a career of racing. no musical challenges, no cafes or silly talking heads. I love GT7 but that stuff is just straight up corny.

even the motion feels better on the track. the cars kinda shudder when the brakes lock up, there's vibration and movement. it makes GT7 feel very clean and computer like. The environments feel better and look better. There's less edge shimmer on Forza, it doesn't have the glow/bloom problems that GT7 has, the reflections with RT are awesome. The replays are better and better looking, it has more graphic modes, and even the new system for upgrading your car is pretty great... and yes feels like an rpg... in a good way. I play them both using the Logitech G29 and G920 racing wheels respectively for each system.

just my 2 cents. people are free to disagree.

[mandf]

Small clap for stealth trolling

[thesoftware730]

Sounds like an honest unbiased opinion.

I will definitely be checking out Forza.

[RaidenBlack]

@mandf
wow, so people can't voice their own opinions nowadays ....

[eagle21]

@z2g I wholeheartedly disagree with your 2 cents. :)

[RauLeCreuset]

Huh. You didn't mention anything about GT7 having VR. Kind of strange given your history of mentioning GT7 in comments where you claim to own PSVR2 to give your comments credibility when you bash it, like when you said "aside from gt7, call off the mountain and maybe 2-3 more titles, the launch lineup is also underwhelming."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...

Or that time you said:

"Where we start running into problems begins with the launch lineup. GT7 is fantastic. Horizon Call of the Mountain while not an amazing game, does s good job of showcasing the power of the unit/ps5. There are other good games as well but the thing is, most of this stuff isn’t new."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...

And that other time you said "I barely use mine now, save for the occassional gt7 race, but even then I have to convince myself to get the headset out and set it up vs just poppin in a few quick races."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...

Strangely, this time no mention of GT7 being fully playable in VR. Really strange since you also have a racing wheel setup. As do I. It really adds to the immersion when playing GT7 on PSVR2. I guess you just forgot.

[ApocalypseShadow]

Raul, he didn't forget. He decided to ignore the elephant in the room that puts GT7 over the top. Sony's game with VR makes the current Gen only Forza game seem less impressive, less immersive and less innovative.

We know he favors Xbox, so he's going to downplay any advantage GT7 has over Forza or he would have mentioned VR in his abnormally long post.

Sony's game celebrates cars in different ways from driving them, taking pictures of them, selling your car to other drivers, etc. Because GT was the game that put many cars on the map that people didn't know about. It increased car culture, connected games to car manufacturers, created real race car drivers, etc.

He's going to downplay that.

[darthv72]

GT7 in VR is hella cool... but also not for everyone. Id venture more play it without VR than with. So why not leave the VR out of the argument? Both games are doing some great work representing their respective platforms. It's not difficult to like both (maybe for some it is).

[babadivad]

@Raiden

You can if your opinion is sony good, xbox bad.

[RauLeCreuset]

@darth

"GT7 in VR is hella cool... but also not for everyone. Id venture more play it without VR than with. So why not leave the VR out of the argument?"

1) Because that doesn't change the fact that GT7 is available in VR. I could stop there, but...

2) I'd venture more who have the the required hardware that gives them the option to play GT7 in VR play it in VR over flat screen.

3) Because z2g's own comment history is littered with comments talking about GT7 VR. Here's another:

"Hmm have to check it out. Been waiting for a reason to actually use mine for something other than gt7. Not really into all the cute little vr games that seem to dominate the lineup."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...
.
But why mention VR in a lengthy comparison to Forza that hits on other immersive features such as racing wheels, do I have you right? You're capable of better, Darth.

[IamFrasierCrane]

@darth

“Forza Motorsport is better IMO. It looks better, it runs amazing, the simulation is just as good if not better now than Gran Turismo“

Did you not read this part of his comment?

“So why not leave the VR out of the argument?”

Why would someone omit VR when they’re talking about simulation? Let alone claiming one is better than the other…

[RauLeCreuset]

"It's not difficult to like both (maybe for some it is)."

Kicks off a thread of comparisons by posting the first comment to hype a comparison video.

Tries to act above it all when it's pointed out that GT7 has an amazing VR mode while Forza is only flat screen.

Yeah, Darth, you can do better. Preferences or even biases aside, you usually try to comment in good faith. You know you're trying to backup a bad faith argument.

[RauLeCreuset]

Article: "'Gran Turismo 7' and 'Resident Evil Village' are gloriously immersive on PS VR2"

z2g: "i agree completely with the article and have now played both personally in PSVR2, but.... how many times are we going to keep posting articles about how amazing these games are in vr? i mean honestly this is like the 10th one and they all read exactly the same."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...

Article calls it gloriously immersive. Z2g agrees. Z2g somehow forgets to mention said "gloriously immersive" feature in a breakdown that compares the games on things like simulation, environments, and looks, and graphic modes. Y'all need to stop with the blind defense of that post.

[PhillyDonJawn]

I'm definitely checking this out.

[RauLeCreuset]

Last one. This person who bought a VR unit that cost more than the PS5 for fear of missing out on playing GT7 in VR somehow neglected to mention GT7 having VR in their comparison? Okay.

"ok ok ok. so i've been leaving a lot of comments about how i think psvr2 looks really awesome but that i'm not sold on it as i don't have a ton of faith in vr as a whole and the fact that while there are a couple launch games to truly get excited about, the bulk of them feel like standard mediocre vr filler games that don't really convince me to spend the hefty price for the headset. One of the games that did NOT fall into this category tho was GT7. I love GT7 and have been truly wanting to play it in vr since its launch - i couldn't justify the price of the headset for just 2 games.

"well....

"my strong will to play gt7 in vr has officially trumped my practical side and i ordered a psvr2 bundle. every time i read these articles or watch the videos i get fomo'd and couldn't take it anymore. I am actually waiting for the fedex man right now as I type this. I am extremely excited to try GT7 in vr and with my g29 setup. I am still not completely sold on psvr2 and may end up having buyers remorse overall, but I'm excited for now. I still do not have complete faith in the platform tho, regardless of how good the headset is actually being received. i hope my initial reservations are proven wrong in the coming year."

https://n4g.com/comments/re...

[EvertonFC]

Music Rally on GT7 is awesome, my ONLY gripe it took too long to make more of them.
It's also irrelevant which ones better, PS fans will always say GT, Xbox fans Forza.
Also can I just say, most gamers play on budget 4k TVs so the HDR is irrelevant in both GT7 and Forza and all games anyway cause there TV ONLY has 300 NITS which isn't the recommended 600 HDR NITs anyway.

[Petebloodyonion]

So now ppl are trying to find features like VR to justify that a game should be better (in term of gameplay) than the other even when it's a minority who own a PSVR2.
So okay Let's play this childish game...
Can ppl with blindness issues play GT7?
Well, they can play Forza due to incredible accessibility features so why did Sadow and Raul leave that out?
Can you cross-save or cross-play with a PC I'm sure it's super important to some ppl (like the majority of ppl here who never needed an Xbox because of their 4k 60 PFS PC).
And that brings another missing point what about the PC version????
Again PPLs are willingly leaving this crucial information out of the discussion like playing at max details on my UBER PC and on my ultrawide monitor.

So again let's not focus on the gameplay that the majority will experience (like Z2g experience) but on features that only a minority of ppl will use to justify if a game is good, more fun, etc.

Here's my 2 cents: how about trying both games and forming an opinion on what you prefer as Z2g did?

[S2Killinit]

GT7 VR currently shits all over Forza imo btw for what its worth. I mean, quite literally there is no comparison whatsoever.

Having said that why are DF comparing a re-release to a game that came out a year and half ago?

[RauLeCreuset]

@pete

I struggle to formulate a response that truly captures how inane your comment is while staying within the rules of this site. Long sigh...

I'm glad you prefaced all those ridiculous false equivalencies by admitting that they are childish. No need to deal with them. We're in agreement that they are ridiculous. The issue is that you think that's equivalent to me calling out z2g for not mentioning VR. You are wrong. Here is why.

I did not do a comparison offering "my 2 cents" on which is better. Z2g did.

I do not have a comment history talking about features I'm being called out for not mentioning. Z2g does.

I do not have a comment where I portray a feature I'm being called out for not mentioning as a system seller that got me to buy an add on device more expensive than the launch price of the system its used on for fear of missing out. Z2g does.

None of my comments here expressed my thoughts on which is better. I haven't called out any other comment here expressing an opinion on which is better. I didn't bring up other advantages for GT7 that z2g curiously left out of the comparison, like DualSense feedback, despite Eurogamer doing an article on its implementation in GT7 that called it a "game changer" and "an unparalleled experience on console" while gushing over how "each car's brake has its own weight, in accordance with the real thing," "a tangible breaking of traction felt via the trigger when you're spinning up the rear wheels" for the accelerator, and feeling "the splash of puddles passing under and that terrifying moment when the wheels free themselves from the road and you're aquaplaning out of control."

https://www.eurogamer.net/g...

I could have called z2g out for leaving that out of a comparison that touches on simulation and how motion feels on the track. I suspect it was another convenient omission, but I didn't call it out. I called out the omission of the feature z2g has brought up time and time again, a feature that was such a game changer for z2g that they bought a PSVR2 headset, more costly than the PS5, a VR unit they admittedly had doubts about, to replay GT7, a game they already played and could have kept playing on flat screen, in VR.

The lengths that some of you go to support what you know is a bad faith post that aligns with your preference is embarrassing.

[Petebloodyonion]

@Raul
" The lengths that some of you go to support what you know is a bad faith post that aligns with your preference is embarrassing."
My sentiment exactly!

Why can't Z2g be allowed to prefer Forza over GT7 since he mentioned owning both games?
You are saying you are not taking a position but you have spent 5 comments (before me) explaining why his taste MUST be wrong due to VR, and his comment history,
Heck even in your reply to me you mention that he left out how awesome is Dual sense when he told you that he was playing with a G29 racing wheel void of these features.

So let me ask again the question:
Why can't Z2G be allowed to prefer playing Forza over Gt7 and state why he prefers it?

[RauLeCreuset]

@pete

"Why can't Z2g be allowed to prefer Forza over GT7 since he mentioned owning both games?"

Don't ask ridiculous questions. Z2g isn't being prevented from having a preference. Z2g hasn't been prevented from sharing that preference here. The melodramatic whining from you and others over how someone isn't allowed to have a preference or a certain opinion around here is tired. What has you bothered is that others are similarly free to express a conflicting opinion.

"You are saying you are not taking a position but you have spent 5 comments (before me) explaining why his taste MUST be wrong due to VR, and his comment history,"

Practice reading comprehension. I do have a preference, but I didn't express it here because it's beside the point. I did not challenge other posts here expressing a preference because it is beside the point. It's one thing for z2g to have a preference. It is another thing for z2g to make a bad faith post that deliberately neglects to mention a feature z2g is on record talking about GT7 having in numerous other posts, including one where Z2G voluntarily shares how that feature was so influential it was the reason they went against their doubts and bought a VR unit that cost almost 8x the launch price of the game itself.

"Heck even in your reply to me you mention that he left out how awesome is Dual sense when he told you that he was playing with a G29 racing wheel void of these features."

Yeah, in pointing out to you that it was something questionable that I could have called him out on in my original response but didn't. Why? Because, to my knowledge, z2g doesn't have a documented history of talking about the DualSense features of GT7 and how they were so influential it caused them to drop over $500 to experience the game that way. Amazing how that works.

[itsmebryan]

I felt the same way about the older GT. It felt sterile. Glad to hear you like FM. I have have a Thrustmaster TX wheel, LC pedals, and 7sp shifter (just like my real car ) . I can't wait to try this when I get home.

[Obscure_Observer]

"For anyone wondering... yes John will be doing a comparison video of GT7 and this game but it wont be until next month."

From what I seen so far, GT7 won´t stand a chance.

FM is just on another level.

https://twitter.com/DonJoew...

[Eonjay]

After watching DF and the IGN comparison GT7 takes this. And GT7 came out a year and a half ago. The image you linked is just rain on a screen. And for some people its blowing their minds. Look again.

[S2Killinit]

Bro you have to try GT7 in VR. It shits all over Forza. It has nothing on GT7. Zero.

[repsahj]

crowds forgot their raincoats. XD

[Obscure_Observer]

@Eonjay

"The image you linked is just rain on a screen. And for some people its blowing their minds. Look again."

No, dude. FM is the superior racer and there´s nothing you can do about it.

You can´t make shit up

https://twitter.com/Ali_Ald...

[IRetrouk]

How would you know obscure? You don't play gt, you probably play little of forza too, forza is not and will never be the better sim racer, its arcade leaning like its always been🤷🏻‍♂️

[blackblades]

I seen some random comparison on twitter, GT looks better but then again cant trust Twitter people that much. Mostly the main difference is the car has more details in GT

[darthv72]

Yeah... you just cant tell from twitter comparisons. Especially if someone is using replay mode instead of actual racing. GT7 offers improved visuals (like RT) in replay mode. Race mode lacks RT unlike this game.

[Moonman]

GT will always look better than Forza. Now and forever. Polyphony Digital are true artists.

[TheGrimReaper]

@darth:
"Race mode lacks RT unlike this game"
... at 30 fps and not 60 fps
It's great that the players can choose which mode they prefer, but shouldn't you compare the 60 fps modes?

[Sonic1881]

Is it necessary to do a comparison video on almost a 2 year old game 🤔 but then again Horizon Forbidden West came out almost 2 years ago and it still looks better than Starfield so I guess you can do a comparison with an old game

[darthv72]

Well... in this video they compare to FM7 which came out 6 years ago and it is a dramatic improvement over that. The next logical comparative would be how it holds up against the most recent GT release.

[purple101]

That is hilarious.

I think everyone has to agree no which one is better and they are just good at different things.

I play pretty much cod a gt7 only but even I can see they made an improvement to

1. Trees
2. Lighting
3.weather effects.
4. Details of tracks

GT always handled better though and has music while driving. So that's why I like it.

Also the Forza premium car pass leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Making people pay for 42 cars AND lifetime double XP, Vs normal gamepass version stinks in my opinion.

[badz149]

@Sonic1881

Horizon Zero Dawn (2017) looks better than Starfield

[Sonic1881]

Horizon Zero Dawn does look better lol

[eagle21]

I can't wait for the comparison (by Digital Foundry) but many have side by side comparisons already on Youtube. And Gran Turismo 7 is winning. :) Gran Turismo 7 is sexier than this new Forza. Forza looks generic and unrealistic in comparison.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[darthv72]

it looks like whoever captured the footage was using performance mode of FM and a replay on GT7. In performance mode of Forza, there is no RT but there is in Performance RT as well as Visual modes. On GT7, there is no RT during racers... only in replay mode. Obviously they wanted to portray GT in the best light and that is only in replay whereas FM looks great in game as well as replays thanks to offering RT in almost every mode.

[Moonman]

Gran Turismo 7 was released in 2022 and looks 2025. Forza looks last gen 2017.

[IRetrouk]

Sorry to break it to you darth but that was gt 7 gameplay, you'd know this if you played it🤷🏻‍♂️
You can also clearly see the rt car body reflection in the gameplay for forza there, why the cap?

[Babadook7]

Yeah I want to see it. This video already alludes to ‘there being better looking track racing games’, so most likely GT7 wins the comparison overall by a bit.

[S2Killinit]

Why would they compare a re-release to a game that came out a year and half ago?

[eagle21]

IGN: "I presume splitscreen is simply a niche mode in 2023 and it probably comes at too high a performance cost on the Series S, but it really is a little gloomy whenever gaming seems to go backwards. Hell, Gran Turismo had splitscreen in 1997!"

They specifically threw shade to the Series S....lol

[ironmonkey]

Lol look at the track texture. What is this 1999.

[ModsDoBetter]

"a pleasing upgrade for series veterans"

Where are you @Jin?

I believe it was you and a bunch of ofher fanbogz who were saying it was a downgrade on the IGN review article?

We've also got some clown further down saying the textures are 1999 level. People really live in a warped reality. 😂

[Profchaos]

DF looks solely at graphical fidelity they state time and time again they do not review content outside of a statement like it's a good or fun game a throwaway Line.

So based on this DF are saying the games visually is an upgrade I'd agree with that I personally think it looks great and was surprised when people started crapping on about lower res texture than 7 that made no sense.

I assume those comments are mostly biased and any direct comparisons made by Joe blow between Forza and gt7 just can't be taken seriously especially when they start talking about VR support which is fantastic but it's not Forzas fault it doesn't have it as there's no VR on the Xbox so you can't blame that on the game

That being said DF would not suddenly start counting available cars or tracks they review what's there not the series lineage unless it's a dfretro video where John would go onto talk about the gameplay and such as enough time has passed typical that it's no longer fanboy fodder.

[repsahj]

After what DF said about starfield, I dont believe to them anymore.

[eagle21]

The proof is in the pudding. See, I'm not a troll and have nothing against Forza personally. I just find Gran Turismo a sexy realistic experience...haha. Tell me I'm blind. Read the comments. Gran Turismo 7 is real life. Sorry new Forza...lol
https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[purple101]

Let Swiss cheese enjoy his meal. Poor lad. hasnt eaten in a while.

[repsahj]

Damn GT7 look realistic.

[Gabrielmpf]

The stupidity of some fanboys is beyond belief.
If you really like racing games, there's no problem admitting you like both. Forza and GT are both great franchises.
I happen to have both consoles and currently enjoying both games.
Ah, it feels great not to be a fanboy, trying to blindly defend their team.

[Petebloodyonion]

More power to you my friend I'm sure both games are fun to play for racing fan.

[Father__Merrin]

They have mDe the cars stick to the road giving the impression that it's good to drive this reminds me of forza 3 with extra wide tracks to give an illusion that this plays great.

[Father__Merrin]

This doesn't really have career anymore

[repsahj]

I saw a comparison video on youtube about rain effects of FM and GT7, I noticed that the crowds in FM was not wearing raincoats but in GT7 everyone was wearing them? Is it only raining on the road in FM? XD

[hiawa23]

DF a great job breaking down everything in the new game. I love both GT and Forza series. Everything doesn't have to be a comparison or one or the other.