650°

Control Developer Explains Why Xbox Series S Is a Problem for Devs

One of Remedy Entertainment's devs chimes in on the Xbox Series S, explaining why the low-spec console is a problem for the developers.

Christopher268d ago

Not a very meaty response. Very generic answer, doesn't really explain the whys, only says it's a problem from the outset.

Sciurus_vulgaris268d ago (Edited 268d ago )

His studio makes games for PCs with a wide range of specs. The disparity of hardware power for minimum and recommended performance on PC is [or can] be greater than power difference of Series S vs Series X.

Nitrowolf2268d ago (Edited 268d ago )

There's been plenty of devs from other studios that have address that though, the scaling is not the same as it is on PC as Consoles.

RpgSama268d ago

THE SLIDERS!!!! You have to make them slide!!!!

KyRo268d ago

And if you want it to work on everything, creatively you have have that lowest spec in mind constantly. If we forever continue with this graphics first approach, yes it is a simple case of lowering settings and resolution to get it to run but if we ever get to point of getting advancements in AI and physics like games once used to then just stopped (for the most part), then the lowest spec creates massive hurdles.

There's a growing number of developers talking about the XSS power. I have one alongside the PS5 and whilst it's great for what it is at the price it is, the disparity is growing and we're not even half way through this generation.

OptimusDK268d ago

@Kyro unless you actually use the hardware that is there for you to utilise if you bothered.

Xbox Series supports Machine Learning for games with DirectML, a component of DirectX. DirectML leverages unprecedented hardware performance in a console, benefiting from over 24 TFLOPS of 16-bit float performance and over 97 TOPS (trillion operations per second) of 4-bit integer performance on Xbox Series X. Machine Learning can improve a wide range of areas, such as making NPCs much smarter, providing vastly more lifelike animation, and greatly improving visual quality.

Kaze88268d ago

news flash, it's not the same. It has almost always felt that for pc they just port the game and then test what ever can run that shit. not like playable, but boot the game on 720p 30fps and slap that as minimum spec. Sometimes the pc specs are way above that they should when compared to other games or on what last gen consoles they are running. Let's not forget that last years all pc ports on ANY HARDWARE has been quite shit.

fr0sty268d ago (Edited 268d ago )

Optimus, instead of copy/pasting, try learning what all that means so you can actually formulate an educated opinion next time.

If only these fanboys had a shred of game development experience, they'd realize how much S is holding back not just X, but PS5 on multiplatform games as well.

No multiplatform game can be made on PS5 or X that has levels too big to fit into S' memory, or AI too complex for it to process, physics, ditto... You can't just lower the resolution of AI. You can't just shoehorn an API into it and expect it to make everything better on the lowest spec system. That isn't how making games works. Try it sometime, and you'll see for yourself. I personally started making games in Dreams and then moved on to Unreal Engine 5, and it was a wake up call on exactly what kind of sacrifices you have to make in order to make a game run on anything but the highest spec system. UE5 is free, so is Unity... do yourselves a favor and download it, try to make games, then see how that game runs on a mid-range laptop. Just some sliders to move around, right? lol...

--Onilink--267d ago

@fr0sty

Please tell me you are not telling someone to actually learn what stuff means before commenting and then talking about AI and Physics being memory related as opposed to CPU related tasks (which incidentally is where the Series S has the most negligible downgrade, with just a 0.2Ghz downclock)

Notellin267d ago (Edited 267d ago )

The amount of hourly day laborers in the comments who couldn't make an excel spreadsheet is incredible on this website.

A bunch of idiots debating something they couldn't possibly contribute to in real life is N4G forum participants.

Melankolis267d ago

PC game devs have the right to decide their own minimum requirement, that's the difference...

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 267d ago
Eonjay268d ago

The response is good enough if you take it in context of BG3 issues. He is talking about design decisions and how they have to be married with technical limitations.

He is saying that the Xbox Series S should be what games are made around.

Issue here is that PC was where it was developed and it was designed for seamless drop in coop. And they weren't developing these features on a potato 🥔 pc. This also implies that the feature wouldn't exist if it was designed around the S.

So basically because Microsoft wanted to saturate gaming with GP we have a console that will tie us down for the rest of the Gen. Maybe even next gen...

neomahi268d ago

I mean, that pretty much says it all, how can you argue that? I understood what he was saying. It's twisting words to try and justify self-gratification making it sound how you want to hear it to support your own claims, views, or biases. I think this is exactly what he meant

--Onilink--267d ago

GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 970 / AMD Radeon RX 480 (4GB+ of VRAM)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4690 / AMD FX 8350.
RAM: 8GB.

Those are the minimum requirements for BG3 on PC… its a 2014 CPU and GPU, its is basically a potato PC at this point

Eonjay267d ago

@--Onilink--

So the first thing you should notice is that the Series S has less available memory than the minimum requirements call for.

--Onilink--267d ago

Its a 2gb difference if you decide to add up the 2 RAM types on PC (which you shouldn’t because that not how it works)
And even then Windows alone uses about the same 2Gb as the Series S reserves for its OS, with the caveat that on PC you will also be using memory for other background stuff

So no, I wouldn’t really say that the memory situation is that different between the 2 (not really saying the memory situation of the SS is ideal though).

That said, if there is a difference in memory between the 2, its pretty negligible compared the difference in all the other specs where the PC spec is basically for a potato, which is what you said it wasn’t

babadivad267d ago

It find it hilarious how people always find a way to blame GP. 😂😂

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 267d ago
ChasterMies268d ago

That kind of headline would never generate clicks.

anast267d ago

It extra work and they don't like it.

343_Guilty_Spark267d ago

So why was a generic reply with no meat to it approved as an article?

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 267d ago
XiNatsuDragnel268d ago

Xbox series S was a problem from conception imo but we needed a more cohesive response than this.

268d ago Replies(4)
seanpitt23267d ago

Microsoft does everything to slow gaming down there is no initiative, no talent they are pretty hopeless at it, that's why they need to buy studios to bring talent in.

I like Phil Spencer he seems a cool guy but they need different management. Who thought bringing a 4tf machine in late 2020 was a good idea.

Don't think Activision merger will be good for gaming with microsoft as it's boss look at redfall everything they touch turns into a mess.. if starfield fails then it will be a big hole to climb out of.

Jin_Sakai267d ago (Edited 267d ago )

“Xbox series S was a problem from conception imo but we needed a more cohesive response than this.”

Could you imaging how abysmal Xbox Series sales would be if you eliminated Series S from the equation. That’s the reason why Series S exist is to boost sales.

spoonard267d ago

Microsoft knew they needed a cheap console to pad the numbers of what would be their dismal Series X sales. Have you ever noticed that MS only talks about Xbox sales numbers, not individual Series S/X sales?

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 267d ago
rippermcrip268d ago (Edited 268d ago )

This guy isn't even a developer, he's just in PR.

Christopher268d ago

He's done a lot of dev work, regardless of his current position.

rippermcrip267d ago

Care to expound? He has been in journalism and PR most of his life. His LinkedIn mentions zero about being a developer. Am I missing something obvious?

raWfodog267d ago

As the Communication Director at Remedy, surely you can reason that he's very much in 'communication' with the company's developers. Even if he may not personally be involved in developing the games, I'm sure that he's aware of the devs' issues with the Series S.

rippermcrip267d ago

I didn't say that he was wrong or had no knowledge. But the facts here are wrong.

raWfodog267d ago

“ I feel Larian's pain on Series S. Its not about "just optimize at the end" LOL. Naaah. You have to take into account the technical limitations from the beginning of development. Nobody really wants to think of that when you start making your game, when everything is possible”

Which specific part(s) of his comment do you feel are wrong? You’re being really vague in your comments.

rippermcrip267d ago

The article calling him a developer is what is false.

raWfodog266d ago

Professionals tend to use their ‘highest’ job title, even though they may be well-versed in other fields as well.

Here is another article identifying him as a developer as well as communications director. https://www.ign.com/article...

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 266d ago
The Wood267d ago (Edited 267d ago )

ad hominem bended with a dash of hope n cope

darthv72268d ago

How do PC developers do things? Do they start from the bottom and work up or from the top and work down? somewhere along the way they have a minimum and maximum they aspire to. In the PC side there are way more combinations to deal with and yet the games still manage to be scalable throughout. Last gen should have prepared them for what was to come. Having a base model and premium to work towards. This gen looks to be no different, esp if the rumor of a 5 pro is to be believed. that adds another variable to have to work with.

ChasterMies268d ago

PC developers apparently don’t. When was the last AAA game that released on PC and not consoles?

I_am_Batman267d ago (Edited 267d ago )

Scaling up from base-spec is easy. Scaling down can become a headache. At this point the PS5 is de facto the "lead platform" for most multiplatform games. This can make porting to Series S challenging.

On PC you don't have nearly as strict of a certification process. What's accepted on a minimum spec requirement PC would often not be accepted by the console makers. The standards are higher, at least in terms of stability.

Most engines are fairly scalable these days. If Sony is smart they'll make the process easy and keep the requirements low for PS5 Pro optimization. If a dev team simply wants to shift the frame rate cap up and let the dynamic resolution scaling do the rest, they should be allowed to. If they decide to go further and add better ray tracing and fine tune graphical fidelity, they'll have the option to do that as well.

Keeping Devs happy should be the top priority, but Pro console variants are an inherently different situation than the Series S. While there are ways Sony could screw up and make things unnecessarily difficult, it's never gonna be as bad as having to make things work on a much less capable machine.

hollabox267d ago

Thank you! I echoed similar conclusion if the PS5 was the lead platform, XBSS and ultimately XSX will have problems. You see comments about sliders, and PC lowest spec. Well, it depends on the base configuration and just simply turning down resolution and effects. If a game is designed around 7 GBs of ram loaded at all time, not accounting for VRAM. You only have 1 GB of VRAM to work with on XBSS and 7 GBS on XSX. 1 GB of vram, you're going to have to make some serious graphical sacrifices using modern engines. From meshes, effects, textures, and you have to save enough for audio. Ways to get around the base design of 7 GBs of system ram is to add additional loading points, optimize the hell out of streaming, cut animation, objects on screen, and features such as split screen, or even online play. After the awhile, the game would not be what the developers intended.

For the what about PC bros, base spec on PC would require at least 8 GBs of system ram to run given PCs additional background ram processes. About 8 GBs of VRAM at 1440P and probably console/PS5 medium high base settings. After the base look has been established, if you have beefier hardware add higher resolution effects, brute force high FPS and or resolutions. That's about how it typically works.

Show all comments (88)
290°

Microsoft’s Surface and Xbox hardware revenues take a big hit in Q3

Microsoft just posted the third quarter of its 2024 fiscal financial results. The software maker made $61.9 billion in revenue and a net income of $21.9 billion during Q3. Revenue is up 17 percent, and net income has increased by 20 percent.

Read Full Story >>
theverge.com
darthv721d 22h ago

Xbox content + services up 62% while hardware down 31%... seems about right with the way they tout you don't need the hardware to play. People can play on their phones or smart tv or other means. I don't hardly play on my consoles directly since getting devices like the logitech g-cloud and ps portal. Which is to also say I have been playing more digital than physical because of these devices.

solideagle1d 9h ago

you should apply in MS PR team buddy, I think you will do a great job in my humble opinion :)

Sonic18811d 7h ago

I thought darthv72 and Obscure_Observer already work for Microsoft 🤔

dveio1d 6h ago

MS: "Xbox services and content without AB up 1%, with AB up 62%. Hardware down 31%. In total a loss of 350 mill."

darthv72: "Seems about right."

MS: "Excuse m ..."

darthv72: "I don't hardly play on my consoles directly."

MS:

Lightning771d 1h ago

What he said was facts. How he plays games is no concern of you. Don't get too mad about it.

Cacabunga1d 9h ago

I can tell people like you are an absolute minority..

If service is up means their fans and fanboys accepted this model and subscribed to it. The near future you will see a big decline because the service is saturated.

darthv7219h ago

to you it may seem like the minority... but your bubble is shrinking because more and more are following suit. convenience is a hell of a drug and its also why physical sales only amount to 30% of overall game sales. times are changing, you either get with them or you get left behind.

neutralgamer199214h ago

Darth

30% physical sales: yet Phil and xbox division are in a rush go give up on that 30%. they don't have any right to give up any piece of the pie since the control such a little of the pie to begin with

also, the market is clearly speaking that the model Xbox is pushing isn't working right now the keyword being right now. you are right about freedom to play anywhere so i hope they put their games on steam

shinoff21831d 8h ago

But that's been ms for years. When things aren't going their way they try to change the way things are said. For instance console sales are down, they stop telling how many sold instead telling us how many hours spent in halo or headshots. So it makes sense console sales down just say people are playing on more devices then previous. What they won't say is how many xbox players jumped ship to ps5.

Cacabunga1d 7h ago

Hardware sales are so bad that Sony and Nintendo are blowing the sales off the water with their hardware.

If Xbox are losers, others aren’t..
Xbox already tried everything with Xbox live then subscriptions went down so much that they had to find something else. Their fans subscribed then reached saturation rather quickly.

Hardware and exclusive games is where it’s at! Keep gamers excited, announce decent software and people will support you

itsmebryan1d 3h ago

@shin
Well keep it simple Sony 's operating income is down 26% and Microsoft's is up 32%. No MS spin there, just facts. 😉
Cheers

S2Killinit19h ago

MS is after diminishing consoles as a medium. They want to destroy this market because they couldnt win. MS’s vision is to dissolve console gaming.

romulus231d 2h ago

Odd that a company that touts you dont need the hardware to play is already touting another console in the works.

darthv721d 1h ago

They are not reliant on the HW but still want to maintain a presence (no matter how small) is a good thing. It shows commitment to the craft. It reminds me of SNK and how they made games for their own hardware (Neo Geo) while also making them for others because they knew there was a market to do so. They knew they would sell more to others but also sell to their own niche fan base.

TheEroica19h ago(Edited 19h ago)

Perfectly reasonable post down voted by insecure corporation friendly folk.... But not gamers. Real gamer want accessibility and ease of acquisition for all.... Company shills are the only ones still telling us that hardware locking people from games is good for us.

Chevalier14h ago

@Darth

You should stop parroting metrics like an idiot without context.

"Xbox content and services revenue grew 62% in Q3 from a year earlier, “driven by 61 points of net impact” from the purchase of the third-party video game giant, Microsoft said."

61 of the 62% was from their merger so net increase is ONLY 1%

https://www.mesaonline.org/...

itsmebryan5h ago

@chevalier

It looks like made a great purchase. Much better then Sony buying Bungie. 😉
Cheers

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 5h ago
purple1011d 11h ago

Xbox hardware revenue tanks to lowest point of Xbox Series generation

Profchaos1d 11h ago

I'm not surprised surface is struggling they aren't relevant anymore

DOMination-1d 1h ago

In the last two years they've started exiting the consumer market altogether. All of the newest Surface products are business models only. They can't seem to work out what they want to do with it.

XBManiac1d 10h ago

Too expensive hardware when others offer the same or more for less? Good work, Green Team.

SimpleDad1d 10h ago (Edited 1d 10h ago )

"Despite some early successes for Xbox games on rival platforms, Xbox hardware is down by a massive 31 percent this quarter."
"Without Activision Blizzard, Microsoft’s overall gaming revenue would have actually declined this quarter."
"Xbox content and services would have only been up a single percent without Activision Blizzard..."
"It looks like next quarter is going to be a similar story for gaming at Microsoft, too."

That is crazy... so A/B/K is carrying the whole Xbox gaming.
Oh and Microsoft will be fine. Windows, Office and Cloud are growing with each pc purchase.

purple1011d 10h ago

Activision: "we gonna need a bigger rucksack/backpack please"

Microsoft: "why's that"

Activision: "to carry yo' weak ass'

Profchaos1d 9h ago (Edited 1d 9h ago )

Top brass have also wanted to start seeing returns on the 100 billion they have put into various Xbox related moves so seeing more multiplatform games is highly likely especially from abk

It's basically saying that PlayStation is the reason Xbox is afloat right now thinks to Ps5 versions of COD

Kornholic1d 8h ago

So basically PS and PC gamers' money is keeping Xbox on life support.

MrDead1d 1h ago

The only growth MS will get out of the console industry is if it supports it's rivals platforms. Xbox is a pointless machine now. I can see them on a big push for live next, and they won't give up on trying to buy Steam.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1d 1h ago
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80°

Razer Kishi Ultra Review - Remote Play and Mobile Gaming Goes XL

PSLS writes: I have traveled across the country using the Razer Kishi Ultra in airports and hotels for both PlayStation Remote Play and mobile gaming in general, and I am thoroughly impressed.

Read Full Story >>
playstationlifestyle.net
150°

Sony Patents To Prevent You From In-Game Harassment By Reading Your Emotions

A new patent recently published by Sony wants to gather biometric data of gamers to track whether one is being harassed using AI tools.

Profchaos2d ago (Edited 2d ago )

I hope this is one of those patents that never comes to fruition.

I already dislike the fact you can pay a significant amount for a online service buy associated games and content on said service and get banned from that service over potentially a misunderstanding the bans are already handed out for flimsy reasons

I'd rather see money invested in a ban that simply removes the offensive players ability to communicate with unknown players allow them to continue party chats with friends but not with Joe blow on cod.

exputers2d ago

Agreed. Blizzard recently banned a college Overwatch 2 player who's dependent for saying "shit." Pretty harsh.

Profchaos1d 17h ago (Edited 1d 17h ago )

How rediculas really. You can't say a word that's allowed in most PG films and prime time TV but the game is based around killing the enemy team using guns, explosives etc.

It's just backwards.

just_looken1d 18h ago

What your talking about is called block list

In 2006 a spaceship dropped of the playstation 3/xbox 360 i say that that generation was the last great gen with game functions/tech that has yet to comeback

Anyhow the playstation 3 if you block listed a id they could not talk to you in chatroom with either text or voice. But that was pre mind fucked 2018 when people were more human than sheep.

But hey gta 6 is coming out billion dollar budget without a single player custom character creator and without singeplayer coop off/online something saints row 1-3 had on the xbox 360.

z2g2d ago

Take my social security and bank account numbers too! Here’s a picture of my wife and our address.

phoenixwing2d ago

Cmon where's the pictures of your children. Don't hold out on them.

H92d ago

At this rate I feel Sony will eventually sell a room to play games in it where they can monitor your every breath

jambola2d ago

I genuinely get a bit worried sometimes when a friend says something that could be offensive In a party
Because I have no trouble believing some bans would happen when in a private party for saying something wrong

SegaSaturn6692d ago

I want them to censor erotic content by measuring my groin temperature so i dont get too distracted while playing black ops 2.

Popsicle2d ago

Terrible idea. Not only do I not consent to providing my biometric data, the potential for mishandling biometric data is almost a certainty. Positive stress and negative stress can produce similar changes in biometrics. Interpreting the precise emotion a person is feeling is not only invasive but could be easily misconstrued. I hope this never comes to fruition.

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