Starfield's 30fps cap is best explained by a big pile of sandwiches

That sandwich gag highlights why 60fps would be tough to achieve on console

[Jin_Sakai]

pile of sandwiches > 60fps. Because that’s what fans want.

[InUrFoxHole]

I want the devs vision

[Sonic1881]

Sure you do. Forget about 60fps. That's the spirit 😂

[Jin_Sakai]

I’m sure their vision could be realized at 60fps. This is Bethesda we’re talking about though.

[LordoftheCritics]

If unlocked fps on Xbox hardware meant 32-38-36-27-29-33-34-32 fps all the time.

Then 30fps locked is the best solution.

For all other superior hardware 60 and above is obviously better.

Also I believe Star Citizen players will immediately understand the sandwich concept here. For object tracking and persistence, SC is the only game to have achieved it at that scale and being fully online.
Hurry up and finish SC.

Now would we prefer object tracking across the universe with 30fps or a sub par game with 60fps??

Well I just know I'm playing it on PC.

[Shadowsteal]

Delusional.

If 30fps was the "vision", it'd be locked on PC as well.

[Crows90]

That's some crappy ass vision running at 30fps. Pretty sure they'd need more than glasses

[r2oB]

Their vision is for you to blindly fork over your money regardless of bugs or game quality.

[Tacoboto]

Fans of Elder Scrolls and Fallout titles, yes actually. That is the kind of interactivity fans of their titles know to expect. Have you played any of them before, especially at launch?

Also expected - massive bugs, because this is a Bethesda Games Studios title, not an id Software title. Again I'll ask - Have you played any of them before, especially at launch?

This game is doing exponentially more computations than The Medium (a launch window 30fps title that is completely ignored now); The Medium also launched later on PS5 and like Xbox also lacks 60fps, because neither console is a PC capable of PC performance.

If Bethesda launches this game at a stable 30fps on console without major bugs, then that would be genuinely historic for them as a developer.

[Jin_Sakai]

The entire QA team at Microsoft is playing Starfield to discover bugs so I’d hope it launches with less than average from Bethesda.

[abstractel]

It's also not just about physics. They chose to go with a real-time GI system. It's of course a combination of all these things but even as Sony fan I feel this site is going to hate no matter what when it comes to MS titles.

[GamingSinceForever]

A pile of sandwiches with a GPS tracking device inside of each one of them. I suppose of someone steals your sandwich you can travel the galaxy to hint it down and try getting it back. That alone could be better than 60fps to some people. 🤷🏾‍♂️

[PapaBop]

A pile of sandwiches can be this generation's fish ai

[rlow1]

No that’s what you want. I’m fine with it because I understand the difficulties of achieving a stable frame rate on such a massive game.

[goldwyncq]

Creativity and innovation > 60 fps

[Kaze88]

Drop the resolution from 4k to 1440p, turn down some graphic settings and it would be done....but no. Some devs at least make 45fps modes if they cannot reach 60fps. Even sweet little lies Todd said that they run comfortably above 30 fps and sometimes even over 60 fps, but we all know that Bethesda is not good at their own engine or have a proper QA. This is why modders have fixed their shit for years and it's the reason that they still are alive.

[giovonni]

There would still be complaints. “ what?! It’s not in 4k” “ screw you MS I would rather have it at a stable 30 FPS at 4k” I promise you that would be the talk. Bottom line people just hate MS so they’ll find something wrong.

[Kaze88]

Well they aren't running this gen only games native 4k anyways. They will use 4k or close to it upscale, resolution this day and age does not matter much. The performance gain is just so good, that it would be crazy to not use it. I believe this game is using it as well, so it's not even true native 4k atm.

[KingKionic]

"Like prior BGS titles, it seems that Starfield tracks the location and position of arbitrary items in the world. Given the scope, this stuff begins to add up."

Yea anyone who is wise can clearly could of seen this instantly. Its super cool that you can live out your fantasy of people a space pirate and hoard keepsakes from random ships.

Cant wait.

[The_Blue]

Why the down votes? 😂

[Rimeskeem]

The dude is like duct tape. Thinks they can fix all the damage done.

[NXFather]

Yeah CPU has to be free at all times for that level of persistent gameplay from the sound of it.

Edit: Or a quarter of it.

[NXFather]

Sounds like maybe Bethesda dedicated roughly half of the CPU power to this persistent gameplay design.

[BriBri]

That's not how this works

[NXFather]

@BriBri

Didn't ask.

[Christopher]

Do you mean like they do in their other games that run at 60fps or higher?

[KingKionic]

If where speaking strictly consoles. Please do list the open world games that track objects in there precise location and leaves them there ready for you to pickup to any specified location you want across a open world and then into space and then the ships in space and runs at 60 fps.

[Magog]

It doesn't actually track them at all times. It tracks them as a certain distance which is why if you like enough stuff in skyrim when you come back the area it will all jangle and explode as it's dropped back into the play space. Assigning a 2D location to an object takes very little power to achieve it's just a mess so most devs avoid it.

[Christopher]

Skyrim on PS5 and XSX. Your example of moving them around in space is nonsense, they're not tracked in real-time like that which is why this whole argument is entirely silly. They drop reference points and when you are within viewing range then they are processed. Your argument is like an individual reading every article on N4G at once. That's just not how it works.

[maniacmayhem]

*Skyrim on PS5 and XSX*

You're comparing a game from 2011, that has been ported numerous times, to a brand new game that is infinitely bigger than what Skyrim ever was. That's like asking why can Legend of Zelda Breath of the Wild run at 60fps on Switch and not Zelda: Tears of the Kigndom

[Christopher]

***You're comparing a game from 2011, that has been ported numerous times, to a brand new game that is infinitely bigger than what Skyrim ever was. ***

This is what optimization is all about. You're the one giving them a free pass. Let alone the reason this article says it's 30fps is proven to not be the issue. The issue is they are choosing to not downgrade graphics to make it happen. This is not a creative choice, it's a choice to do less work.

But, hey, at least there will be modders out there to do what Bethesda can't.

[Crows90]

Dude. It's a game....they're not actually in space. You're making it sound like they're doing some crazy star trek technology in game development

[KingKionic]

New Atlantis in Starfield alone destroys any city in skyrim according to bethesda.

We havent even talked about the game having a thousand planets to explore.

Space must be accounted for because your going from one world to basically flying in space to boarding other vehicles in realtime that has gear there that can be literally taken to your ship and transported back to whatever world you visited.

All of this is no small feat. Many games we see pore most of there render time just in visuals. Starfield chose a much more shocking result.

[Christopher]

All of the space isn't loaded in real time. Having more space to explore means more work for the team and more work for QA, but it doesn't mean it impacts the framerate more just because there is more. They are only processing what is in view of the player and nearby, not was is in the current galaxy. And even then, much of their heavy areas are instanced, meaning they aren't even a part of the open space region. They're regions you load into for a reason, so as to distribute the impact those areas have specific to them rather than the procedural elements outside of them.

New Atlantis is literally an instanced region. It has no effect on space.

[maniacmayhem]

*You're the one giving them a free pass.*

I'm not giving them a free pass, you're being ridiculous when comparing a game that was released decades ago that isn't doing half of what Starfield is and demanding it should just based off that.

[Christopher]

***you're being ridiculous when comparing a game that was released decades ago***

The comparison is specific to the topic. It's not ridiculous. Both games manage items in the exact same manner. That's what is being discussed.

***isn't doing half of what Starfield is and demanding it should just based off that.***

It's doing the same thing last gen games did and are also currently at 60fps. It's a "big" game, but it's not cramming all of that into the player's vision or real-time managing the elements like ship customization in real-time. All of this stuff has been done in other games for over a decade. It's just got the Bethesda sheen on it. Well, that Bethesda sheen is focused on 30fps and not a performance mode.

It's as simple as that. They can focus on performance but they are choosing not to. They're just calling it creativity, but none of what they are doing is new or tied together in a way that hasn't been done before. They want better looking. That's their decision. Simple as that.

[The_Blue]

What other games?

[MetroidFREAK21]

As long as it plays well, I really don't care what framerate its at. It's a slower paced RPG. I'll be playing it on Series S so I won't even have the best visual fidelity and thats cool with me. Who knows, maybe they will release a 60FPS mode in the future? Here's hoping

[Tacoboto]

I would hope they give us a VRR mode much like Flight Simulator provides - locked 30 on 60hz mode but 120hz mode unlocks it.

[MetroidFREAK21]

I don't own a VRR display, but it would be nice for those who do

[Magog]

VRR doesn't work at the low Fps Starfield can achieve. It will be 20-25 fps in big battles. Bet on it.

[Tacoboto]

Xbox has a wider VRR range than PS5 because LFC is built into the platform. This is why Elden Ring as an example can feel smoother on Xbox than PS5

And Howard's gone on record saying "Fortunately in this one, we've got it running great. It's often running way above that. Sometimes it's 60. But on the consoles, we do lock it because we prefer the consistency, where you're not even thinking about it" - so if he's honest, that sounds like VRR support would be effective.

Also, FF16 has a performance mode that occasionally drops below 48fps - the PS5's min limit - but that didn't stop Square from including it.

[EvertonFC]

"as long as it plays well" and "I'll be playing it on series S"

Oh dear, good luck with that.

[The_Blue]

They'll be playing on the cloud.

[MetroidFREAK21]

I'm sure it will be more than tolerable, but if it isn't, come back and tell me you were right. No biggie

[JEECE]

Remember that many of the same people defending 30fps in Starfield based on sandwiches clowned on 30fps in A Plague Tale: Requiem based on rats. And that game probably had about 15% of the budget of Starfield.

[Tacoboto]

People who clowned on A Plague Tale were out of line and should be called out for their inconsistency then. Who here did that?

Gotham Knights releasing around the same time as Plague Tale also at 30fps deserved its criticism by having inconsistent performance. Plague Tale also released with 40hz support so that makes the criticism it received even less warranted.

[anast]

Exactly

[Magog]

Then why is Skyrim 60fps on consoles? 60 is bare minimum in 2023.

[maniacmayhem]

Skyrim came out in what, 2010, 2011? Not sure, but did Skyrim have different planets you could go to, ships you can customize along with bases, how about different aliens to interact with on different planets?

I haven't played Skyrim in a long time but I'm thinking maybe, just maybe, this game here in 2023 is doing a lot more than Skyrim did in 2011

[blackblades]

Games in 2023 hell when the gen started should be 60fps as standard and Greenberg said it himself. They can make the game in there vision but make a 60 mode for the ones that want it. If other studios out there that can make multiple options and even some had more then just 30/40/60 modes with lowered resolution with higher fidelity/details etc these guys can do as well.

[The_Blue]

Tell me your joking

[Magog]

If the issue isn't graphics but how many sweet rolls you can stack on a table it shouldn't matter how old the game is.

[Smellsforfree]

WE GET IT! The game isn't 30 fps because a Microsoft studio missed the target on the Microsoft console - it is because Bethesda made CHOICES! #ImWithDreamcastGuy

[ChasterMies]

I’ve seen apologist articles from Kotaku, Forbes, Screenrant, and now this. Why the hard push by Microsoft’s PR team? The Xbox Series X has 3 times as many teraflops as the Series S. Why can’t Series X owners dial down the resolution to dial up the framerate? I think the answer is that performance on Series X is mediocre and performance in Series S is terrible. Series X probably had dynamic resolution up to 4k and not actually 4K. Easy to have 4K for all of the still shots we’ve seen. I’m getting Cyberpunk 2077 vibes again.

[YodaCracker]

We literally had 45 mins of pure gameplay. What still shots are you talking about? And what is the point of your comment? Are you suggesting it would run better on PS5? There is no released or known upcoming PS5 game of this scope and scale to compare it to.

[derek]

@Yoda blah blah blah scope blah blah scale. Buzzwords that mean absolutely nothing. This is all just spin.

[crazyCoconuts]

Looks to me like a lot of bologna 😉

[Rebel_Scum]

I did the same thing with ale in my Whiterun house. Chucked all my booze on the table.

[anast]

Everything will load in real-time like an actual existing world. I can't wait to see this even at 30fps...

[Destiny1080]

its six games in one, apparently there's 5 more games to be shown before release, some are rumored to have better performance then redfall

[CobraKai]

I don’t care. 30 fps is still playable. When the frame pacing is uneven, that’s what bugs me.

[shinoff2183]

This game is going to be my goty , yep as a ps first fan I said it. In regards to the fps 30 isn't a huge deal from me , but I've grown up with gaming since atari I don't think its a huge deal. Again I. Games these days look fantastic to me already. To be honest I see shit thrown around so damn much, vrr, raytracing blah blah I don't even know what some of it means I have to look it up. I own a 4k TV and whatever tf it's doing I'm extremely content with it.

I also consider myself a hard-core gamer , aside from my girl and my kids I live eat breath this shit, have over 700 ps games alone. As a 5 year old I would lay in bed and wait for the adults to go to bed go back into the living room and play the atari, 1st time I played nes I was hooked with Mario 1. I'm pretty hard-core. I go back and play snes games still. Snes and ps1 best systems for jrpg to this day by the way. As a hard-core gamer and a sci fi nut this game is more up my alley then Spiderman 2 and ff16 put together hence where I said it'll probably be MY goty. Back on point 60 fps is dope but nut a deal breaker for most of us. The other stuff I just added so someone can't say we'll your not a hard-core gamer , well I am but at some point people just start being extra. Personally I think its just bethesada being lazy to a degree but I'm OK with. The scope and what this game can possibly be is special so I can easily ignore the lack of 60fps

Now I gotta go throw up.

You know what I'm not done. Ms went and bought up a good fair share of the wrpg market bethesada, obsidian and inxile, these studios make some damn good games(imo) Wtf are you doing Sony this isn't a market you should be ignoring. Bethesada games sold really well and it's a genre Sony needs to get behind. They have no rpgs coming or probably even in development and it's extremely disappointing to see. I'm just really annoyed by this.

[derek]

@shin, yeah it sucks if you're a fan of Bethesda games,which I'm not, and only play on ps. But you always have the option to go get an Xbox or play it pc.

[Viljong]

Doesnt make any sense, sorry. The reason is same as with this revolution called redfall.

[Meti]

A game that huge is not something a console should handle with 60 fps. Unless you take out most of everything in the game which is not something one should want. They should focus more with games on pc and not consoles. For consoles it should be enough with beat em up games and smaller indie games and thats it.

Consoles are just hindering the potential of games. I say no more consoles, make games for pcs instead.

[alexkarkar]

the game is crap but here is a big pile of sandwiches to make it even

[Npugz7]

Just goes to show you how bad Bethesda is at optimizing!

[DEAGLETURK]

Damage control by microsoft, thanks to partner""" gaming sites

[Jon61586]

I made the switch back to PC gaming and I am very happy with my decision. I still may get a PS5 for the excusives, between game pass and ea game pass plus Diablo 4 I have plenty of.games to keep me busy.