13 years later, Final Fantasy 13 still tells one of the series’ most ambitious stories

Final Fantasy 13 launched worldwide 13 years ago, and, since then, it’s developed a bit of a dodgy reputation. Environments that amounted to little more than bland hallways, a convoluted plot with a penchant for proper nouns, yet more changes to the battle system, and a dudebro hero whose heart of gold can’t mask his innate annoyingness came to define this awkward entry in the storied series. However valid some of these criticisms might be, they overshadow one of the more complex and important stories in the series, and perhaps even the genre as a whole.

[-Foxtrot]

More like boring, uninteresting or drawn out

[Godmars290]

One game so boring, they made two more trying to flesh it out.

It did not work...

[Elda]

I loved FFXIII but I agree it didn't need a part 2 or 3, I thought those 2 games were boring.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I don't think they actually tried to flesh it out, I think it was more a cost cutting/saving measure on their part. In interviews, the developers stated they had enough leftover assets to make another game or two. All those unused assets and we still didn't end up with any towns, and we had a barren world outside of Cocoon.

And SE did seem to avoid making a new numbered entry in the franchise at the time too (I believe they didn't know where to take the franchise from this point onwards).

[lucian229]

Two probably had the best story honestly. Best ending too

[curtain_swoosh]

totally agree.
its rly good

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

That, and I'm not reading through all the primers, that stuff should have been in the game as gameplay or as a cut-scenes or something, that and being one of the first FF games to drop so many series staples like towns, mini-games and such... I like the setting, and the story has potential (most of the characters are good, but don't really shine, except for Snow, stuff Snow, too much of a cardboard cut out), but it's such a slog to get through.

[Nerdmaster]

"That, and I'm not reading through all the primers, that stuff should have been in the game as gameplay or as a cut-scenes or something"
To be fair, last year's game of the year was an RPG with no story or lore told through gameplay and cut-scenes, and everything was hidden in item descriptions in menus. And I see so many people defending it like it's the best storytelling method ever. So maybe the game would be more well-received nowadays. (not by me, though, who thinks the old "show, don't tell" golden rule is still the best)

[phoenixwing]

The corridors killed it. Honestly they weren't sure how to do hd games and ff 13 was the result.

[curtain_swoosh]

no, the narrative and the characters killed it. 10 also has corridors and its great.

[masterfox]

nah, too ***** for my taste, no one will know :D

[SegaSaturn669]

I didn't hate the story. It was forgettable. But I remember just mashing x button to end the combat in just about every situation.

[MrNinosan]

That is every Final Fantasy before it as well thou, or better, holding down the X button.

[Nebaku]

Yeah okay, try doing in this in 12 that came right before it, and get back to me on how that works for you.

[Adrian_v01]

@nebaku

12 literally you don't have to push any button, you just set up 2-3 gambits and walk around to kill 90% of the enemies

[lucian229]

@nebaku

12 was the worst game in the franchise lmao. No one was unique. They were the same character with alt skins. You set up a gambit, walked away as the game played for you..... It's worst than mashing X.

But yeah the entire turn based Era of final fantasy was essentially mash x till they die, unless it was like the secret bosses or something.

Take two steps, random battle, Mash or cast ultima, dead. Next three steps, random battle, do it again. Horrible lol.

[thesoftware730]

lies!! lol

I can tell you have not played any FF for more than 30min by that comment lol.

[MrNinosan]

@Nebaku
In FFXII I don't need to press any buttons.

[MrNinosan]

@thesoftware730
I have Platinum in every single game FF-game that has Trophy-support, and been playing Final Fantasy since late 80s.

[shinoff2183]

Lucian

Say what you will but there hasn't been a better ff since 9 and it was turn based. Ff10 was good but not up there with 6 through 9

[Magatsuhi]

Completely incorrect... In ff7 I would press down, up, left, right. That is already 4 more extra buttons than I would press in 13. I would also press circle to return and square(or select?) to see information of something as well as L1+R1 to escape. You've clearly haven't played any FF game besides 13 if you think other turn based games were the same.

[lucian229]

@shin

Ff9 sucked. Sorry lol. I preferred 7 and 8. 10 was meh, hated tidus, 10-2, was more enjoyable. 12 had an awful story and characters as well as offline mmo combat. I played all the 13 games and liked the second the best.

[jambola]

Funny thing is, I've seen people criticize modern gf games for being like that
While they read a YouTube chat and play older ff games barely looking at the game

[thesoftware730]

No way you could have beaten the game that way, once you got a bit into Grand-pulse the enemies would beat your ass if you did that, also did you do any of the hunts? super challenging, what about the Cactar, did you fight it?

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I honestly remember doing a bit more than that, it actually was challenging in some sections, not that I was keen on it, especially the stagger system.

[DOMination-]

As others have said, you either didn't play it or you have a bad memory.

The game limited your ability to level up with each chapter, so you had to rely on the paradigm system from quite early on to get through battles as becoming OP just wasn't really an option (or at least wasn't until near the end).

[Godmars290]

Blame "Chasing the (Graphics) Dragon" that was all the rage during the 360/PS3 era.

Can only wonder what the game would have been like as an isometric. That if by going smaller they could have gone larger.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

As you say 13 could have benefited from "going smaller to go larger", then again, SE probably wanted to maintain the franchise's crown of having good graphics for each release.

[Eonjay]

I really enjoyed it.

[DarXyde]

I wouldn't go as far as to say I really enjoyed it, but I got a lot of good out of it and did all the side quests. I think I was one or two trophies shy of the platinum. I don't get the tremendous hate it got personally, but I think revisiting it would be pleasant in 2023. Though I will say that most of the characters weren't particularly likeable or memorable for me.

I share others' grievances with the corridor aspect until getting to Gran Pulse late in the game. This is not at all intended to be incendiary, but I believe that was a compromise needed because of the limitations of DVD-9 storage compared to Blu-ray.

[Godmars290]

"the limitations of DVD-9 storage compared to Blu-ray."

Which then points blame at it being multiplatform. Square's attempt to get closer to MS because they weren't happy with Sony and they did with the PS3.

[DarXyde]

Godmars290,

I would definitely say that created an issue at the time, but I also have to wonder about what could have been. I really liked the battle system personally. You could cheese it, but what's the fun in auto battle?

There was a fun game hampered by the linear to open world approach so late in the game, but it might be a bit unfair to treat that as the only glaring issue.

The story was on the weaker side and the cast wasn't particularly memorable to me. Those are kind of important for Final Fantasy.

[gangsta_red]

"..but I believe that was a compromise needed because of the limitations of DVD-9 storage compared to Blu-ray."

The DVD storage had nothing to do with the design decisions of FF13. the game was only on multiple DVDs because of the many full CGI cutscenes FF 13 had and those required a lot of space on a regular DVD.

FF 13-2 was on one disc and it's because Square used real time events for the majority of their cutscenes.

[DarXyde]

Gangsta_red,

XIII-2 was very compartmentalized and I really wouldn't call that world open at all. You travel to the same areas at different points in time.

I don't really think it was the CGI cutscenes that mucked things up. It certainly uses a lot of space, but I really think it is more a matter of compromising aspects of the game's original vision. Both things can be true of course, but if we consider it from a design perspective, the game is literally linear until the last disc on Xbox.

I'm not here criticizing that. I just believe it was a necessary design choice.

[gangsta_red]

@DarXyde
FF13 and part 2 was roughly, if not the same size as each other. Even though you revisited the same areas they became different at certain points in time. Video and Audio is what what usually takes up the majority of space on DVD's and it was the CGI scenes of FF13 that took up the bulk of the disc space. Which is why for 13-2, less CGI cutscenes were used in favor of in game engine cutscenes.

https://novacrystallis.com/...

"..but I really think it is more a matter of compromising aspects of the game's original vision."

What was the original vision? Because it's not like the 360 didn't have open world games on it before and even games like Lost Odyssey were on multiple discs and that game also had a ton of CGI cut scenes.

Square has went on record saying that the game was not compromised due to the storage issues of DVD for 360.
https://www.psu.com/news/ki...

"... but if we consider it from a design perspective, the game is literally linear until the last disc on Xbox"

Considering how the actual story went about, this probably was the design from the very beginning.
Also, the game started off as a PS2 game and then was moved over to the PS3, so production and design was probably also affected by this.

[Godmars290]

@gangsta_red:
The very fact it was put out at the same time on two platforms at the same time when there were two different media formats to consider, then that effected how the game was made. Which version was ultimately released.

[gangsta_red]

@Godmars
"The very fact it was put out at the same time on two platforms at the same time when there were two different media formats to consider, then that effected how the game was made."

What does this even mean? Are you trying to say that a developer putting out a game at the same time on different formats has never happened before? And it wasn't different formats as you said, it was just DVD had less storage than Blu Ray, different formats would be comparing Discs to Cartridges.

The disc format has little to nothing to do with how a game is made (at least in this particular case with FF) it's only used for audio and video storage, the actual game is made possible by the type of graphic card, CPU, GPU, etc etc all found within a console.

As I said before, FF 13 was originally supposed to be on PS2, it's safe to say that this is what affected development.

https://kotaku.com/ffxiii-o...

The producer of FF 13 has gone on record saying that FF 13 was not compromised by the 360.

https://www.gematsu.com/200...

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

It was okay, it's definitely not the worst FF game I've played, I've got a few candidates for that title.

[_Decadent_Descent]

Definitely one of the worst. I've tried on at least 3 different accounts to get into XIII and just can't do it. I'd say VIII, XIII, and XV are the worst entries of the series, easily.

[Eonjay]

I will add that 13-2 was absolutely incredible. My absolute favorite.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

@-Decadent_Descent,
It's not one of the better FF games (it had more going than these two I'm about to mention), but I'm still tossing up between 12 and 15 being the worst, probably give it to 15 as the worst FF game I've ever played.

[andy85]

People can insult it but I'd love them to release it on newer consoles. It'll soon be the only numbered FF in the whole series not playable on PS4/5

[Elda]

You can play it on the XBSX in ultra hd & it looks really good. The visuals are sharp & clear & the graphics are still not bad for a 14-year-old game. The only thing is it plays 30fps, which I have no problem with.

[andy85]

It was always a good looking game, it's a shame people on PS miss out. Thing is on a game like this which you don't have camera movements in an open world 30fps is probably fine.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

If you have a PC, you could still play it on a modern system, pity the PS got shafted a bit with no re-releases.

[utnil]

Are you crazy?

[Elda]

I'm playing it for the 5th time but the first time in ultra hd on the XBSX & it looks so sharp & clear. I'm on the open-world chapter (Gran Pulse) that's near the end. FFXIII is one of my top favorite FF games & I've played nearly all of them except the ones on the NES & the MMO's. The FFXIII OST is my second favorite with Persona 5 OST being my first favorite video game OST. Now for the story the story was ok,it was somewhat weird but I got the gist of it. The very reason why they had no shops to visit because they were on the run.

[thesoftware730]

Didn't you reach Grand Pules after a few hours of play?

I remember really liking the game a lot,(minus the story) and anyone saying the button mashed the whole game is lying. A lot of the fights required the right setup and switch of party members or you were dead, great battle system for sure.

[Sephiroushin]

I played it on Japanese, if Gran Pulse was the Shikai (basically the Underworld of the story), then you started it around Chapter 11 and game had a total of 13 chapters, and it was near the ending, but you can do so much once you reach it that those last chapters could take you a really long time!

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I really can't see how any button mashed this game, there were more than a few times where it was quite challenging if you didn't play as the game mechanics intended. Not a fan of the stagger system though, I just wish that wasn't a thing in this game, it just feels tedious to me.

[Elda]

I love the battle system as well. I agree if you didn't have the right paradigm set up you could die. FFXIII was the first FF game where I died a lot when I first played it in 2010.

[Hofstaderman]

I remember March 2009 all excited going to collect my preorder. I remember the hollow feeling I woke up to the next morning realising that for the first time ever I was let down by a Final Fantasy game. It was sobering.

[lellkay]

The story has a little bit of potential but nowhere near as ambitious or interesting as most of the rest of the series.

[Dandalandan117]

I actually had a great time with XIII and found the combat really fun to experiment with. Too bad I didn’t get to play the sequels so I would actually love it if they can remaster it and sell it as a bundle.

[goldwyncq]

Say what you want about the FFXIII trilogy but the music was consistently amazing throughout.

[MeteorPanda]

Story wise, it was okay. The characters were just so fucking one dimensional l couldn't connect with any...Maybe fang a bit and a bit of Snow but then the later entries kinda deleted their personalities.

[goldwyncq]

I don't think you know what one-dimensional means, because none of the main characters in this game are. All of them were hiding a part of themselves from each other.

[FinalFantasyFanatic]

I have to agree, most of the characters were pretty great in this game with the exception of Snow, it's also a pity that some of that characterization was in novels or possibly the Primers (I can't remember now since I played it when first released).

[staticall]

Personally, i would replace «ambitious» with «confusing». If you're reading plot summary, it sounds great, but when you play the game for 3-4 hours a day with some breaks - not so much. The naming they're using is just terrible - lCie, falCie, Ceith; Lightning, Snow, Hope, Vanil. And because game is lengthy, you'll forget the meaning of those terms rather quickly and be like "FalCie are... Good? No?".
Like this "some falcie and lcie are fighting sanctum and primarch with other falcie to save pulse. But cocoon and sanctum are using psicom to purge Bodhum" - this has 9 different terms that you have to understand.

The game had really cool ideas, like Coccoon (Dyson sphere-like), Pulse (where some big titan or monster plays "Survival of the fittest" all day everyday). But turning into a crystal for completing some unknown Task/Job or how they call it (or turning into a monster for not completing) was a very dumb idea. Like, you're losing either way - or you'll try to kill your loved ones or you'll turn into a crystal and they'll die before you'll get out of it.

I wish they would turn down the terms, that would make a much better game. At least it would be easier to "digest".

[Adrian_v01]

The terminology wasn't such a problem, come on. Haven't played the game in years and I can tell you the meaning of everything you wrote without looking it up.

And l'cie fate makes perfect sense in the world of the game. It's God's against humans and forcing humans to complete your task. Eternal God's who lack emotions and a concept of time and passing think the ultimate gift for humans is eternal existence like theirs, not realising that to humans its a fate of suffering just like you described.

[staticall]

@Adrian_v01
If terminology wasn't an issue for you - good for you! It was for me. Maybe i wasn't that invested in the first place, but those terms certainly didn't help (especially because they sound so similar). What i mean, look at the Witcher 3, as an example. They have a complex plot with a lot of characters, without the need to invent a separate dictionary and it's much easier to remember and keep in mind while you're playing.

It might make sense plot-wise, but i see this unknown task as a writers' excuse to remove any character they don't need anymore without any repercussions (like they're alive just "unavailable/unusable&quo t;). Don't want to expand the romantic plot between Snow and that girl? It turns out, she just completed her task and will turn into a crystal. Oops, i guess. What about a guy who was helping you? Well, he's not in the main cast, so we turn him into a monster for shock value. And yes, you can say it makes a perfect sense in their world. But personally, i don't enjoy this.

I did complete every trophy in FF13, but that wasn't a fun memory for me, because of the grind for Treasure Hunter, that was miserable. Maybe that's why i'm not a fan of this game.

[thesoftware730]

I agree, confusing ass story. Wonderful gameplay.

[curtain_swoosh]

its just a shame that the first game does a piss poor job of it.
for me, the 2nd game is the best of the trilogy.