DF Direct Weekly: Baldur's Gate 3 on Xbox Series X and S - why feature parity matters

Baldur's Gate 3 isn't exclusive to any particular console, but right now, the Xbox versions are facing a unique problem that could impact the future of Series S. Meanwhile, John, Rich and Tom discuss the latest FF16 footage, the fate of Luminous Productions, Nvidia's new video AI upscaler and the impressive Humanity demo on PS5.

[SullysCigar]

Who could possibly have anticipated such a problem? /S

[crazyCoconuts]

Not DF apparently. When the S came out they concluded their beaming review with "Whichever way the next console generation goes, one thing is clear: Microsoft knows how to design and build brilliant console hardware."

Even in the text of this article (I didn't watch the video) they don't touch on the real issue which is why is split screen an issue and where else will it hold the SX or multi-plats back. Instead they spend time at the beginning proving to us that this isn't an Xbox specific requirement, PS did it too with PS4Pro. They seem to be treading on sacred ground and don't want to poke the bear by discussing the hard performance issues here. God forbid Xbox did anything wrong with the S.

[--Onilink--]

They are not saying its not an Xbox specific requirement… they said these kind of requirements have also happened in the past (obviously for this specific case it can only be an Xbox requirement since its the only platform with 2 different consoles)

Their entire discussion is how in the past, these kind of restrictions/policies have eventually been lifted and whether this will be the point when it happens for SS/SX and how its better to cut the feature from the S rather than not release the game at all

[blackblades]

I remember that, lol designing. It doesnt seem like it was brilliantly design its more of just slapping numbers together into a plain rectangular box with a plain controller. Ps5 was design carefully with more thought put into it both inside and outside. DF was like we dont understand why this is happening in some of there early comparison videos.

[ChasterMies]

Exactly this. The gaming media in general bent over backwards to praise Microsoft for releasing a $300 console, when at the same time they are mostly playing on PCs that have $1000 graphics cards. I’ve been saying all along that the Xbox Series S is a bad investment. What you really want is a true current gen experience and saving up $100 more for a PS5 digital or $200 more for a PS5 or Xbox Series S is not unthinkable.

[blackblades]

@Deus its worse cause they can't just drop the series s considering the players thats on it. Also wasnt there suppose to be more in the series family of hardware or did they dropped those plans.

[frostypants]

Thing is the PS4 Pro came out deep into the PS4's lifecycle, and was always marketed as simply veing enhanced versions of PS4 games. The base model was still the lead platform. With the Series X/S, the X should be the lead platform, but to do that in such a way as to not hold back the X they have to be willing to slash features from the S version. MS is unwilling to do that

[darthv72]

hmm.... it makes you wonder if 343 was having similar issues with halo split screen that they just dropped it entirely.

The S is a budget system, there is a market for it but MS doesn't really force feature parity. Look at RT, in many cases it is not in the S version of a game like it is the X. That is a feature that also affects performance and we know they don't force performance parity either.

I think I read that BG3 works on the S, but just not to where the devs feel it needs to be. Maybe they should ask MS for assistance? I know Sony has helped where devs have asked for it when it comes to getting something running right.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Split screen is more so content than feature. Wouldn't make sense for a game to have split screen on the X and then if you decide to play it on the S it's no longer there when it's the same game same disc(although discs don't apply to the S).

[dumahim]

You can force Halo into split screen now if you wanted to. It's mostly works. There's just a few issues that need to be ironed out and it'd be ready. I don't think the hardware is the problem there. It's certainly not an issue with the S as it's also working on Xbox One.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[crazyCoconuts]

It appears they do actually force feature parity. DF apparently confirmed it.
Split screen is considered a feature.
Ray tracing / resolution is not considered a feature.

[fr0sty]

I really think MS is going to drop the feature parity thing from S towards the end of this generation, screwing all those who bought it. But they should have known better... just sucks for those who don't know enough about tech to know better. The sad thing is, until they do, multiplatform games on all current gen systems are going to suffer because of their shortsightedness.

[OptimusDK]

The problem is not the XBOX SX it is that the PS5 is the lead platform - and they need to put more time into handle the bottlenecks and one could hope actually use the specific features that this little monster has like the velocity architecture... if they would put the time into it - it should not be an issue to scale down visual elements to compensate.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

This is a such prominent problem I think xbox wasn't planning long term here imo.

[darkrider]

They play this to inflate sales. Otherwise things would be even worse and they would sold 9 millions consoles againts 30 of Sony. That's the reality... They don't care if the s is weak

[crazyCoconuts]

In their defense - every company wants to increase sales. If customers are buying it, doesn't that mean they themselves don't care that it's weak?

[shinoff2183]

I think they wanted the advantage of what a cheaper system couldve brought. Instead of the specs they should have just matched and dropped the disc portion. They kinda shot themselves in the foot. The s is definitely gonna cause problems now and in the future if there really is parity. Itll bring down multiplatform games to. Some devs may just drop features from games if they cant get it running, etc

[TheCaptainKuchiki]

Exactly.
Funny how they always bundle the X/S sales when the S cannot be compared to PS5 at all.
At best, it could be compared to PS4 Pro and Xbox One X. But it is not a next-gen console.
So if we're to compare next gen sales, it's really 30M PS5 vs <10M Xbox Series X

[Eonjay]

Well at first they were thinking that a reduced Bandwidth would be fine to address smaller sized textures and the GPU would be able to easily do 1440 60FPS. The idea was that a more powerful CPU would be able to pus those frames. The real target should have been 1080 60FPS.

But Ray Tracing and other modern tech showed up and blew the gimped memory bandwidth to hell

I think they where looking at creating the cheapest box they. Would claim as next gen so they could push GamePass as hard as they could.

Everyone should avoid the S model and I feel bad for people who got tricked into getting one.

[SullysCigar]

"Everyone should avoid the S model and I feel bad for people who got tricked into getting one."

I agree, but this also plays into Microsoft's hands, as people that only own a series S may well upgrade to a series X out of frustration at some point. What they have to hope is that people don't finally realise enough is enough and ditch xbox altogether.

[darkrider]

I've told that from day one. After a gen where there was so much complaining about the lack of power of the ps4 and Xbox one... The talk of how consoles were gimping games, holding a generation... You get something like the s. Anybody with a little knowledge understand that things will only get worst.

[Chevalier]

@Sully

"I agree, but this also plays into Microsoft's hands, as people that only own a series S may well upgrade to a series X out of frustration at some point. What they have to hope is that people don't finally realise enough is enough and ditch xbox altogether."

I agree. But if I had an Series S and looking at the Price of the Series X and the PS5 being similarly priced. I would honestly just keep my Series S and just buy a PS5. Because not only would I get Balders Gate 3 I would also gain access to Playstation 1st party and the many more 3rd party exclusives as well. It would be a no brainer.

[SullysCigar]

^ better off just selling the S to some unsuspecting buyer while it still has some value. Although, seeing as there are deals out there to get them for $150, that ship is sailing fast. The secondhand market for those consoles is likely to boom and the prices will likely plummet.

[Flakegriffin]

Makes you wonder if they were planning a 4 year console instead.

[stonecold3]

been told series s is more powerful then ps5 then then they call it rdna2.o then heard them call it weakstation then been told ps5 holding back both xbox and sony paying for parity then they mentioned series s is more powerful then ps5

[frostypants]

Remember how the Xbox One was gonna be way more powerful than the PS4 because of "CLOUD POWAH!!!"?
And then...the Crackdown 3 embarrassment absolutely trashed that narrative. MS is just one major misstep after another when it comes to hardware decisions. I don't get why the DF's of the world aren't harsher on them.

[Flakegriffin]

@Frostypants

One of the worsts ever. They showed off the power of cloud with full destructible online open world. Natural destruction where the buildings would cause a “chain reaction” of destruction.

Just to get a multiplayer mode that’s 5v5 with cardboard cutout destruction LOL

[Destiny1080]

a first party developer, with a budget of 500 million couldn't get it working, what chance has a third party developer

[dumahim]

To be fair, they were also dealing with Xbox One.

[JEECE]

I guess someone forgot to tell the BG3 devs about scalability.

Also, while we're here, anyone else remember when Albert Penello claimed Series S was going to outperform PS5? https://wccftech.com/penell...
Good times.

[lonewolf10]

"I guess someone forgot to tell the BG3 devs about scalability."

This, as I have said many a time before, they manage between minimum and recommended PC specs, why is it so hard for consoles. Unless MSoft are forcing parity, which would be stupid I reckon.

[dumahim]

They are forcing parity between X and S. If they're forcing it between them and PS5? I don't think anyone knows for sure, but it's the only reason I can see as to why they wouldn't just release the game without split screen on Xbox and say they'll look into adding it later. I think it was John who pointed out, I'm sure far more Series S owners would rather have the game without split screen than not have the game at all.

[Hofstaderman]

@JEECE spot on.

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

It's crazy looking back at all the lies that were being spread leading up to the launch of both next gen consoles.

[Anunnaki]

Imagine how many games have already cut features on all platforms just to accommodate the Series S. It's go time jg to hold back all multi-plats for another 5 years.

[thesoftware730]

Suggestion, For anything that can't run on the S properly, add it to Xcloud only for that specific game on SS. Sell it at a discounted price, and if a user decides to get the native version on SX, charge an upgrade fee. This will only apply to 3rd party games, because if its 1st party it's already on xcloud.

Not the best solution, but it could work because I do think most games will be able to scale on the SS.

[Gamer_Dude]

I think the Series S problems are highly exaggerated.

[thesoftware730]

Game_Dude

I agree 100%

Looking at BG3 and other games released on the system it seems more like a developer's problem, more than the hardware.

I mean they have Metro: Exodus, and some other high-quality games running on the system.

[kingnick]

People just want to push their agendas particularly fans of a certain competing console.

If someone doesn't think currentgen console games are that impressive graphically having crossgen releases and the fact that consoles are low power APUs across the board is more to blame.

Hardware in some prior console generations was harder to code for so you saw huge leaps but there's no getting around the fact that it's easier then even to release a game and utilise more of the systems resources then it was for say the PS2/PS3 as examples.

This honestly just sounds like developer incompetence like how 343i used contractors to build the Slipspace Engine but documentation wasn't sufficient and now said contractors have moved onto other projects there's no chance 343i will ever get co-op in a working, bug free state.

Microsoft need to up their game and create multiple in-house engines similar to what Sony has done, moving to UE is a bad strategy long term as it reduces revenue and leaves developers at the mercy of UE and its licensing agreements.

[Vizigoth04]

Oh, but could you imagine? If Microsoft gave up mandatory compatibility requirements for Series S and stopped producing them and all they would make is a Series X? It’ll no more be a conversation of “The Series S/X has sold 20 million consoles” it’ll be well the series X has sold 8 million while
The S sold 12 million. Kind of makes that conversation look a little different when they’re not hiding behind the simple X/S label. Honestly though I see the X going digital and an XL bring the mid-gen upgrade. Then we can hide behind X/XL numbers because let’s me honest here we need to complete different machine to compete with PlayStations. And let’s not be drastic, the only difference between Sony’s two skus is a disk drive. That’s it.

[Unknown_Gamer5794]

Clearly, the solution is to make the PS5 the lead platform for multiplats, and to port games to the XS from there. That way, devs can make the games they want to make, and if there are issues with the S, they will be contained to the Xbox ecosystem.

[Aussiesummer]

I'm glad I just built a pc so between that and my ps5 im covered, regardless I'd never buy an s and just sold my x, xbox for another gen are crap and best avoided.

[anast]

It's going to look good on the PS5.

[Owlbert]

The series S plays old 360 and x1 games really well....but most triple AAA games last year ended up just being x1x / PS4 Pro versions @1440p 30fps...it sux

[DarthZoolu]

Consol needs to just run everything at 7:20 P and upscale it. I knew for an absolute fact that calling the series as the 1440 P machine was a damn lie.

[repsahj]

Good thing the PS5 version didn't delayed because of that. Because I really want to play it already.