Pentiment Proves a Great Point About Diversity in Historically Grounded Games

Pentiment’s medieval European setting still has diverse characters while feeling authentic, contrasting other historically grounded games.

[DeathTouch]

This is honestly a non-issue. It has more to do with world building and writer’s intention, not a requirement.

[MrBaskerville]

The article doesn't state that it's a requirement. It just notes that Pentiment manages to find representation in medieval history and that it brings something interesting to the table while doing it. Point being, maybe developers could explore more facettes of the medieval setting to give us a broader perspective. It's meant for inspiration not force.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

Medieval Europe wasn’t diverse. Being ethnocentric and xenophobic was socially normalized.

[DeathTouch]

“Point being, maybe developers could explore more facettes of the medieval setting.”

Sure, if that’s their intention and part of their world building. Exactly like I said.

[Angyobangyo]

Or....devs can make the games they want to make without being lectured to "explore" representation and certain themes. If Pentiment manages to find way to explore those facets, then it was their direction to make it so. Not every developer making a game with a European Medieval setting has to follow that same vision.

[Lifexline]

It’s a non issue for yourself but to many out their it is an issue and it’s good to see diversity in games for those that it matters to. Did you even read the article?

If it doesn’t matter to you then why comment or pay attention to it keep living your life but subconsciously it bothers people like you for some reason wonder why……

[DeathTouch]

I never said diversity in games isn’t good. Read my statement again.

[Extermin8or3_]

It is a non issue. There are plenty of games with loads of diversity regardless of their setting. Not every game has to be this incredibly diverse mixing pot of races and cultures and views. It should depend solely on the story and artistic vision. If someone has an issue with a game that isn't that diverse- don't buy it. It really is that simple.

[SeTTriP]

Omfg stfu.

[Adrian_v01]

Diversity matters to me but if there's something that really rubs me the wrong way is diversity just for the sake of diversity, e. G. all latest netflix shows and games geared to Gen Z

[TricksterArrow]

Agreed. Nothing against a fantasy game based on reality, go nuts in it with whatever suits your needs. But if you go for a game just based on reality and real events and issues, it’s almost a disservice to portray reality as anything but.

[Nintentional]

The left makes it an issue and they demand diversity in appearance, but never diversity of opinion. They want everyone to look different but to believe in the same delusions they do.

[senorfartcushion]

Sort of, but the argument is mainly used by the center. The vast majority of leftists are clad absolutionists, meaning that they see progress happening (mostly) through wealth alone. You know that these issues can be tackled by people who aren’t on the left. Just because you care about social classes, it doesn’t mean that you’re a leftist in any way. Your opinion on things like freedom and wealth can diversify them from anyone on the left of the spectrum.

[SatanSki]

I like this kind of articles, they let me know what to avoid :-)

[aconnellan]

Why avoid the game?

[SatanSki]

Because whole diversity idea while good itself, was perverted by entertainment industry, and do more harm, then good. By closing my wallet, i'm showing i don't accept the current state of things.

[aconnellan]

“ Because whole diversity idea while good itself, was perverted by entertainment industry, and do more harm, then good. By closing my wallet, i'm showing i don't accept the current state of things”

I don’t disagree with your sentiment, and I don’t want to sound like a jerk but did you read the article? Seems like it doesn’t fall into the usual bucket of a diversity checklist that other games have done.

The specific examples the author cites are an Ethiopian person who passes through the village, and you can learn about their character and culture. Second example is a Jewish person, also just passing through.

Definitely a far cry from the Diversity(TM) that other games put out these days that almost seems like it was focus-grouped into the game, wherein I would agree with your stance

[SatanSki]

Yeah, normally i wouldn't mind. Nowadays i turn back on the first mention of diversity, "created for modern audiences" etc. Too much is too much.

[Aussiesummer]

I want to see a game about ancient African tribes with nordic, asian and hispanic people in it.

[Crows90]

What's funny to me about this claim of historically grounded mess is most of the time things are not properly portrayed....they are portrayed in a superficial and ignorant way....which makes it historically inaccurate.

[Gardenia]

Those are my thoughts exactly. If they would do that the backlash from the woke people would be insane. Just like the African looking people in Little Devil Inside. Some people were complaining and they changed the characters, how sad is that?
Same goes for the Witcher season 2 that I am currently watching. The amount of colored people they force into the series is ridiculous.

[SeTTriP]

Go watch the passion of Christ, their is a whole lot of diversity just to push a agenda, which is white superiority.

[Welshy]

To quote the late, great philosopher Peter Griffin - "Oh my god, who the hell cares".

[After10Ben]

This kind of thinking is childish at best, toxic at worst. I think the word toxic get overused, but it's apt here. The amount of unfounded assumptions plaguing this article are too many to name. Basically the argument is race representation trumps historical accuracy while providing nothing to support it other than emotion. Representation is seen as some kind of virtue. It's not.

Some people simply feel uncomfortable when caucasions make art depicting people who, wait for it, look like them. The obvious logical flaw is that any other kind of art depicting people of color only, does not make them feel uncomfortable. If you were to map that out on a venn diagram, it would be an invalid argument. But the writer is an emotionally immature person who is impervious to logic. I'm Mexican and many of my favorite books and movies mainly depict caucasions and I have never felt uncomfortable.

Good art is good art regardless of the representation.

[KILLnFOOLz]

Bien hecho hermano!

[senorfartcushion]

It’s because in this day and age, class issues remain at the back of the queue in terms of importance. The majority of the companies behind games like this are relatively conservative compared to most. All they know to concentrate on is race and gender, mostly because it’s enough to avoid class talks.

Along with the mishandling of these issues by the conservative companies, the kids online having hissy fits about the idea of replacing societies with such childish rhetoric also doesn’t help the issue. Yours is good. Most comments on here will fail to correctly criticise the creative choices made by Pentiment’s devs.

[Panhandler]

If you look how many times Europe has been invaded and occupied. From both the Persian and Mongol 20 year occupation, Ottoman occupation from 1400 to 1821.
Well honestly if you knew your history this isn't exactly fiction if it was set in Western Europe.
The African Moors invaded western Europe in 630 trying to take Paris but settled taking large portion of Spain, Portugal, France and Rome. The Spanish Reconquista in 711 was the first time Spain tried to take back its lands from its occupiers. Finally succeeded during the Spanish Inquisition in 1462. 781 period of the Barbary Slave trade. Which was also known as the "Jewish Golden age". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/...
Because Jews was histories most prolific Slave traders. Being able to trade between both Christian and Muslim countries.
Vikings would bring Scottish and Irish slaves to the shores of France to barter with Jewish Merchants. They were Exiled from 109 European countries everyone with the exception of Norway because the Dutch controlled South Africa during the Atlantic Slave trade. Which Jewish Slave ships took 95% of all slave to Brazil but most died due to the harsh conditions. In North America, the slave trade had its most powerful center in Newport, Rhode Island. Newport formed a pivotal part of the triangular slave trade of rum and molasses from New England to Africa for slaves and back to the West Indies and the Colonies with the human cargo. I discovered that it was no coincidence that Newport, center of the slave trade, had the oldest synagogue in America and the largest thriving Jewish community in the American colonies.

[BrainSyphoned]

Well we found the mass shooter on N4G

[Panhandler]

What do you mean? Historical truth is now hate speech? Everyone wants to talk about past atrocities until it bucks the narrative huh? Only Colonizers was histories evil antagonist?
https://streamable.com/pq8w...

[Panhandler]

https://streamable.com/pq8w...

[Panhandler]

Ever realized that the creator of the KKK was Albert Pike. He was Jewish, could speak multiple different languages, architect of Washington DC, US and Confederate General that mass killed Indian and was persecuted on both side for his atrocities. Fled to Rome and still has statues in Washington to this day. Even though Robert E Lee had his removed and he hated slavery. Was quoted saying such.

[Panhandler]

Why would my comment get banned when I'm discussing the fact that this article is in fact not historical fiction at all?

[agnosticgamer]

If anything it makes the setting less accurate. Forced diversity doesn’t work for games that need to reflect a certain time period, culture and the race of the people living there during the time period the game takes place. Kind of works in Pentimate because it is completely fictional so it doesn’t need to portray real-world events. It wouldn’t work at all for a game that needed to realistically portray a real-world event. I would even argue because of its forced diversity it isn’t historically accurate.

[MrBaskerville]

"Forced diversity' lol... Why is it forced? do you think the writers at Obsidian were pressured? You have creative freedom unless you want to write something inclusive, then obviously you were forced. So stupid.

[agnosticgamer]

It's "Forced" because it isn't Historically accurate. If you are trying to make something historically accurate and you intentionally deviate to make changes that are not historically accurate it can create confusion over that time period, culture, and the population that lived in the world region you are creating. It makes it less authentic.
If you were making a game based on the American Civil War that depicted the Union Army's All-Black units... Would you as a game creator change the All-black units to include Whites, Asians, and Hispanics for the sake of diversity within the ranks? NO, you wouldn't because it would change the time period, and race of the people who fought in those units. Your game would be much less accurate because of "forced" Diversity.

[ChubbyBlade]

Diversifying Ancient Japan or India etc is forced diversity. That’s what it is. This isn’t hard to grasp. There’s no reason for it. Why should I be represented in a place I did not exist at the time? Takes me out of the experience.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

People need to be more accepting [or simply accept] the historic significance of race, ethnicity and skin colour when it comes to historical accurate media.

[Sciurus_vulgaris]

I’m a member of a “minority” group. If people in a specific area and time frame where not diverse,it would be historically accurate for said group of people to be depicted as racially homogenous within a modern media.

A number of shows with diverse cast within historical non-diverse settings often ignore the significance of race, ethnicity and skin colour throughout history and cannot be considered historically accurate. Not to mention that there are blatant double standards. A racially diverse 14th century England is acceptable but a racially diverse ancient China, or Zulu empire would never be made.

[Extermin8or3_]

My favourite was the TV show that made Anne boleyn (one of King Henry 8th's wives) a black woman (in their own words to make a 'statement') and then made a point if making it centre of marketing etc. Shame really because as you may suspect people assumed the show was historically inaccurate nonsense claiming to be historical and as I understand it didn't watch it and it bombed but I heard it was actually a good show otherwise.

[masterfox]

can we have video games that the only meaning they exist is so people can have fun?, who cares of diversity , political and historically accurate nonsense, in the end is an effing fudging video game!, the last thing when I summon Ifrit or NeoBahamut is to think if this was accurate to ancient times lol, I'm pretty sure Napoleon had very rough times when it fought FFVII Knights of the round!!, so what's next an enemy giant crab attacking its weakness point wasn't very historically accurate to Japan ancient times? :D

[Extermin8or3_]

I mean its down to the developer if they have an inspiration and it ties into their story and ultimately fits within the world they envisaged then it really shouldn't matter too much if its diverse (in terms of race/skin colour of characters or not).

[ChubbyBlade]

I see the concept of world building is falling on deaf ears here.

I can summon a creature therefore anything is possible.

I guess Frodo on a jet pack with penises for hands firing green lasers is just fine because Smaug exists in that world.

[KILLnFOOLz]

So much fuss over a lacking game.

[MadLad]

I didn't think it would be my thing, and actually love it after giving it a shot.

What qualities as lacking to you?
That it's not a 100 million dollar showpiece?

[ikarodemon]

Developers can make their games however they want. I believe there is an audience for all tastes. But for me, only for me, historically based games, movies and series that try to reimagine facts too much don't suit me.

[Petebloodyonion]

Would be nice if ppl would read the article before commenting about how it's pushing an agenda, or it's not accurate, etc, etc, etc.

Here's basically what they are referring to in the article.
"Andreas meets Brother Sebhat, an Ethiopian missionary. Sebhat shares stories of his homeland and parts of his culture, mentioning how much he misses the bread of Ethiopia. The character is even portrayed using Ethiopian icon art ...

In a later part of the game, a Jewish couple passes through Tassing, and much like Sebhat, they share their culture with the peasants. The game even integrates parts of the Hebrew alphabet into its visuals... "

Wow talk about pushing an agenda or pulling a Rey Skywalker
Honestly, the article is spot on, this is how you tackle diversity without forcing it down in ppl throats.

[Scissorman82]

I assume the pic of FF16 is a dig at it being non-diverse. What I don't understand with these arguments or call for diversity is that, apparently, EVERY game is supposed to have it. Good on Pentiment for finding a way to include a diverse cast in what is in all honesty a very restrictive setting, representation-wise. But that doesn't mean that ALL games with a similar setting must do the same thing. FF16 can do what it wants, and Pentiment can also do what it wants. Diversity and inclusion should be look, here's some games that feature people from all walks of life, not EVERY game MUST represent EVERYONE.

[Flewid638]

Its fiction people. I don't care if there are aliens from Mars in the shit. Just make your game engaging and fun to play.

[Magatsuhi]

I'm buying FF16 just because they're keeping it historically accurate. I'm Latino btw.

[Pedantic91]

I want a fun game, something i can play.
Not a history lesson. For that i could always pick up a book.

[MadLad]

Pentiment is actually what RPGs should be. It's all about player agency and character development. The fact you can also learn a lot about history from it is just a bonus for those who care.

If you don't, you literally can play as a character who knows nothing about politics, religion, or anything like that, and just play like all you know that's going on is what you see, personally, from day to day and it's an entirely viable way to go through the game.

This is up there with games like Planescape Torment and the Divinity series. If people don't like that there's no traditional combat in the game, I get it, but this thing is damn engaging and I wish more RPGs took notes from games like this.

[philm87]

With Final Fantasy 16 I think it's been clearly missed that the area it's set is supposed to be an isolated island, and they said it's related to the story. This suggests that maybe there's a reveal of different cultures etc. later in the game that they don't want to reveal now before the release. Time will tell, it may just be a poor excuse.

[jznrpg]

It’s a point and click game that is a wall of text who cares .

[TriniOutsider]

Oh, it's a Game Rant Article...Moving on then...

[GoodGuy09]

I'm asian. Many western or games based in western settings don't include them. Do I care? No.

Now if it was a space science fiction game like mass effect, then yea, I may expect some more variety but if it doesn't, I could care less...

I really just want a good game...

and that should be the focus of devs instead of having to worry about the less than 1% of people that want to be justice warriors and will most likely not even play the game...

[Adrian_v01]

I live in a small Bavarian town and people here even today aren't really open to foreigners and other religions/lifestyles.

[anast]

At first I thought these articles were dumb "fake-activist" type of stuff, but I suppose most racist ALT right people that can't read very well and/or possess the mental faculties to understand context would need a constant barrage of this stuff. It's like when you have to teach a kid math, they have repeat the same menial tasks over and over again until they learn. So all in all it makes sense.

[darkrider]

Gamers want just good games. Stop bringing agenda to games. That already destroyed Every single movie and series from Disney and others, like the crap of the lord of the rings series

[MadLad]

It's the "journalists" that usually spark this. Not typically the developers.
I played through the game and, despite the setting, any people of color had reason to be there and made sense with the time period.

It reminds me how a couple journalists tried to attack Kingdom come: Deliverance for only having white characters in the game, and the developer came out and simply said it was because you legitimately wouldn't see people of color here at this point in time.

[SeTTriP]

I hate forced diversity just for the sake of diversity just as much as the next but let's be real here white people have been doing this shit for the longest.nobody had a problem with Aryan Jesus or Moses, or white Cleopatra, just saying 🤦

So for the person saying they want to take white ppl out of everything, white ppl started it frfr.

[MadLad]

Because we progressed as a people.
We got more realistic and acknowledged the world for what it is.

That doesn't mean we just do a 180 and now just make everything inclusive for no reason. Progression means we acknowledge the past; not repeat it.