PS Plus PS1 Games Run at 1440p, PS2 at Only 720p, and Performance is Surprisingly Bad

Sony wants you to pay extra for PS Plus Premium to get your hands on classics from earlier eras, but have they done justice to them?

[isarai]

C'mon man, it's an emulator. My $200 walmart pc from 2007 ran psx/ps2 games smoother than this

[Obscure_Observer]

Well, some of us asked for classic PS games and now we have it. It´s far from perfect but I believe Sony will address update and fix those issues as soon as possible.

Just a little patience.

[H9]

I don't think people should settle for something bad because they have asked for the good version of it

[Eonjay]

The PS2 games on their page say that they have been bumped up to 1080p. Are they saying that this is a lie?

[RavenWolfx]

Yeah, just be patient while paying for a product that is defective. /s

[Sgt_Slaughter]

It's 2022, these games have run better on weaker hardware. Stop giving companies a free pass when it should be working out the game instantly.

[Firebird360]

Xbox says high. Previous generation Xbox games are great on xsx. Why should Sony get a pass.

[neutralgamer1992]

It's not about free pass guys just sign up once the service has been fixed. No one is being forced to pay for premium. I am waiting until it becomes a very good/great service

But the reason for this launch is because Sony especially Jim Ryan are just now buying into legacy titles while Phil and Xbox went hard after that feature

But the other way to look at it is Sony invested heavily into new game experiences while Phil had no choice but to offer some value

Not defending one while blaming the other just looking at it from both parties POV

[badz149]

PSX maybe but PS2? come on man, that's just BS!

[RedDevils]

PCSX2 has a big update (Nightly Builds), guess I be enjoying all my PS2 collections there.

[ZeekQuattro]

No kidding. They've made it easier than ever to emulate PS2 games. Something that I could never get work right a decade+ ago. I just didn't have the patience. Glad I stepped away for a while.

[DarXyde]

More than anything, it sounds like Sony was really just trying to get this service rolled out.

I don't understand how the PS5 is as monstrously powerful as it is, yet Sony can't seem to figure out how to get it to run things optimally.

Best software in my opinion, but this is an indictment on them. They're lazy or incompetent when it comes to old games, which one is it, Sony?

[Sirk7x]

I can run PS2 games better on my Series S LOL.

[blackblades]

Wow

[sparky77]

How do you mess this up so bad.

The PS5 can't handle 4K for PS1 and not even 1080p for PS2. Jesus.

[LucasRuinedChildhood]

PS3 games - 144p. lol.

Seriously, the PS5 is a powerful machine and they're asking for quite a bit of money for PS Plus Premium. We should be able to expect good quality. C'mon, MS emulated 360 games on the XB1 (not exactly a cutting edge machine if we're being nice).

If they're too incompetent to handle PS1 and PS2 emulation properly, I don't think we're getting PS3 emulation anytime soon, unfortunately. I want to replay the Resistance games. :(

[fr0sty]

Emulating a 360 is easy compared to a PS3, or even a PS2. The rest of your point is solid, but those are not on even ground. Those systems had exotic architectures that took a long time to be able to be emulated.

[RedDevils]

Lol I run my ps3 in 4k without issue not sure why they couldn't do with ps2 lol

[OptimusDK]

@fr0sty - Nope MS is just better at it. That simple - its not even a compaison. 360 was based on IBM Power PC so no it is not just easy. But MS managed to upgrade games to 4K double framerate better in every whay. SONY can not even bring it to run as well as the old versions - what a bommer. And they even have the nerve to add this as a feature that you pay for. OMFG

[Magic_Spatula]

Are they running off of the system or is it streamed. If they're streamed then I kinda understand but it it's running off of the system then it's very disappointing.

[Sirk7x]

The emulator community is years and years ahead of companies doing these things now. Although Nintendo's N64 emulator for the Wii was fantastic for the time, before the guy that built it left. Companies need to reach out and work with the people who already have over a decade of experience with this stuff. You can run PS2 games better on a Series S via PCSX2. And that's with clean room development building from scratch. Imagine if the people who have built the best emulators in their spare time had proper documentation, funding and the legal go ahead. We could have industry standard emulators.

[GoodGuy09]

Oof. Think I'll stick to emulators on pc lol.

[CantThinkOfAUsername]

The emulators on PC had decades of ironing out the kinks. RPCS3 is still working on fixing PS3 games performance. This is typical of emulators.

[JackBNimble]

Are you suggesting that Sony's expertise and development teams with financial backing would take decades to create a working emulator?
I don't buy those excuses...

[dazzysima]

This is Sony’s tech though, they aren’t on the outside looking in like RPCS3 devs. They should have the inside track.

[Neonridr]

1440p then downsampled to 1080p. oof

[Eonjay]

I has to be downsampled to 1080 on PS4 though. The PS4 only outputs to 1080.

[Neonridr]

I realize that. It's because Sony won't support a fairly common resolution. Not exactly sure their reasoning. I get console wise 1440 isn't a huge thing but in the PC world that's a very desirable resolution.

[Eonjay]

I was only referring to PS4. I agree with you on PS5

[Neonridr]

100%. Hopefully they get around to adding in support for that. I can't imagine it's that difficult tbh.

[CrimsonWing69]

Isn’t the slowness due to them being 50Hz versions of the game?

[Shinox]

Whoever managing the dogshit emulators on every gen, PASS THE TORCH and hire actual devs from the emulating scene

[JackBNimble]

That would mean Sony would have to invest money

[Tapani]

There is one really good way to play the originals: Buy the original machines and games used. I've got two used PS3 phats and some extra parts such as blu-ray lasers, full drives and batteries. All super cheap from Amazon Japan. The consoles cost me less than 80 USD here in Tokyo. I got 25 PS1/PS2 games on Yahoo Auction Japan, cost me maybe 60 USD including shipping, all top classics. Stuff like Suikoden I-V, Shadow Hearts I-III, Xenosaga I-III, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne / Digital Devil Saga I-II, Dragon Quest V remake and VII, Radiata Stories, Front Mission 5, Valkyrie Profile I-II, etc. etc. And I have a nice digital PS1 collection on top of that, and on the go can play them all with Vita, including transferable saves.

I dunno what this fuss is about these coming to these new expensive services that are unreliable and have inaccurate emulation! Buy the real thing and enjoy the games as they were made and meant to be.

[Tapani]

I understand prices being different in other countries and peripherals as well, but I would't still settle for a subpar emulation experience with a lower prices. Digital Foundry had a good video about how inaccurate the emulation is: https://www.youtube.com/wat...

You simply have to pay to play these classics if you want accurate emulation. If you hunt for deals and learn how to repair and do basic maintenance to the systems, you'll be in for a treat. The good thing is that they are more than worth it, as many of the games hold up very well. Also, I bought two systems because I wanted spare parts. One is only around 40 USD + I could have used say 10 USD on the games that are being emulated inaccurately by the PS + service.

But hey, each to its own!

[thesoftware730]

Oh no, my son was telling me this might happen, it happened with the NSO emulation and he said something about Jack and Daxter on PS4 and some other game running worst than it did on PS2..I'll check with him for the exact games. The point is he had very little hope of good emulation from Sony, now I see why.

To be honest, I'm getting it for the newer stuff anyway, as we have a PS1 and PS2 with tons of original games. There is no good excuse for this cause it would have been nice to test out these games with a bit of polish.

[CBaoth]

People will complain and deservedly so. Sony and Nintendo are completely ass backwards in regards to supporting legacy software. But after watching that video and researching recent events in the emulator scene, I maintain that those classics look like shit anyway - in 4K, zoomed, 1:1, 4:3 to 16:9, 120 FPS, HDR, RT, or whatever bells n whistles you want to include. PS360 era is the cutoff for me. RDR and Gears 2/3 showed me those games in that era don't have to rely on nostalgia to be fun. Classics look and play better in memory

[Good-Smurf]

Honestly why can't they just working with RPCS3 and PCSX2 team?
And their PS1 emulator on PS3 have better performance than this.

[Christopher]

Possibly due to IP law. It's possible that the methods they use are patented by another company and non-profit emulators get away with it while consumer-provided ones wouldn't. And the emulators can't be hired to do it since as soon as they do it for Sony, Sony owns that code and can take down the distributed emulators using their code out there.

[Vits]

Both RPCS3 and PCSX2 are open source under the GPL license, if there was a patented infringement, you can be sure that they would already be taken down because the code is wide open. And no company would just let it slide.

The more likely reason is that a project made by the teams behind those emulators would use said emulators as a base. And as they are already under a GPL license, that means that this "new emulator" would also have to comply with the license. So while Sony would "own" that code, they would also have to share it and the community would have the right to look at, use, and modify it. What for Sony would definitely be a risk as it gives an inside look at how their consoles work.

Sure, the other option would be for those teams to create something from the ground up. But that would also be risky and honestly, it would make more sense to just hire them as consultors at this point.

[Christopher]

***you can be sure that they would already be taken down because the code is wide open.***

That would only apply if:

1. They were making money off of it.
2. The courts would have to prove they were making money off of it.

So, no. Literally what I said above.

Being open-source literally says they are providing their code for free, which gives them complete deniability in this as it is not for profit.

[Imalwaysright]

Teams behind emulators could legally sell/license their emulators as long as they reversed engineered their emulators and there isn't copyrighted code in them. The only illegal thing about emulation is downloading roms because they contain copyrighted code.

[Vits]

That is not how patented infringement works, you don't simply get away with it because you are not making money from it. The legal process is based on the idea of the owner of the patent suffering a loss because of the infringement, the person or group that is infringing upon that patent actually making a profit from it, is completely irrelevant.

Plus that is not what open source means either, you can make money from open-sourced projects, emulators are literally perfect for the SaaS model.

[Christopher]

***That is not how patented infringement works, you don't simply get away with it because you are not making money from it.***

You do when the ability to prove it is based on code that you didn't develop. Emulation is extremely rarely taken to court because of the precedence that it is not actually running any code owned/created by the publisher/developer, typically actual game code or specific online platform validation/processing code. It's a case of trying to put the horse before the cart.

*** The legal process is based on the idea of the owner of the patent suffering a loss because of the infringement, the person or group that is infringing upon that patent actually making a profit from it, is completely irrelevant.***

Both are relevant. Sorry. Proving loss from their code versus the emulator code or the work of people who create game mods that can run on the emulator is the issue here in the courts. But making profit from the software has been seen as making a profit on the work that others will create from it in the past.

***Plus that is not what open source means either, you can make money from open-sourced projects, emulators are laiterally perfect for the SaaS model.***

Goes to provide the source of content, history of content, and lack of ownership when someone does modify it and uses it illegally. I never said it couldn't be used for profit, but that they use that as proof that an individual who does use it illegally isn't tied to their code but modified it themselves.

[Dwarrior]

After emulating with PGXP for so long, I can't go back to the wobbles.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Oh no I can’t emulate PS2 games…. Idc, camera controls sucked back then anyways.

[shinoff2183]

Adjust yourself or just dont play older games. Camera controls lol. People will complain about anything i swear

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Huh?

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

I don’t follow you.

[RedDevils]

Don't worry it's just kid born in 2010.

[Amplitude]

@MIDGETonSTILTS17:
I don't know what you're basing your opinion on here (did you play one FPS game on PS2 and base your entire opinion on camera controls off that or something?) but you're wrong. Go play Timesplitters 2 or BLACK my dude.

Hell even if you're talking PS1 era, i get the feeling you're trying to compare retro games to a PS5 game and expecting it to control the same. PS1/PS2/PS3/PSP/Vita era games are so fun to go back and play. You're missing out on a lot of absolutely mind-blowing pieces of art, technology and history that had an amazing amount of work and love put into them (before the micro-transaction filled nonsense of today's gaming era). You're only doing yourself a disservice by comparing them to PS5 games and tossing them to the side for not controlling as well. It's such a shame that this emulator (with it's hilarious frame pacing and localization issues with the games running in slow motion) is so remarkably terrible that it almost proves you right - but go play MGS3 on original hardware or PCSX2 and you'll see what im saying.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

Camera controls don’t apply apply to fps’s, just tps’s, so what the heck are you talking about?

And they remade mgs3, and the camera controls still suck. I loved it, but it didn’t age perfectly.

[Amplitude]

Camera controls dont apply to FPS games, they only apply to... third person shooters? okay.

In this bizarre timeline that you exist in where the only games that let you control the camera are third-person shooters and they all control terribly, do Ratchet and Clank and Max Payne and Socom exist? Just curious

[GamingSinceForever]

Hey look at the bright side. Now that you know what is coming you don’t have to waste your money. Just stick to the PS Plus plan that you already have.

[shinoff2183]

I swear some of yall are trippin. I watched that video and its really not as bad as some of yall are making it. O it doesnt upscale this teeny bit o this doesnt do this. So snobbish sounding. Only complaint there really could be is ps3 but those are streamed. Im sure sony is working on something for emulation. Emulation on pc for ps3 isnt even perfect.

[Amplitude]

Bad frame pacing honestly gives me a headache and I don't think I've ever seen a single game run this horribly. Not sure you realize just how awful this is going to play. Some games are quite literally running in slow motion. This looks unplayable

The PS3 streaming is a HUGE improvement over the ps1 and ps2 games being emulated. They're streamed but at least they run how they were intended. The PS5 is playing PS2 games significantly worse than a PS2, and at 1440p

[MrBaskerville]

You don't need ps+ to play these, they will be sold separately.

[Silver-Noise-X]

The Jak and daxter comparison is wrong. The PS3 Versions are a remaster

[Petebloodyonion]

Judging by the video, it's clear that the picture is sharper and better compared to the original PS1 game so in that case, it's a win.
Regarding the frame rate, it's important to remember that emulation is well, emulation, and it will never perfectly mimick the original product best case example would be the sound slight delay in the Sega Genesis mini.

Now my only real concern is why Sony decided to go ahead with the inferior Pal 50Hz version of the game instead of the NTSC 60Hz version?

But I believe that Sony will fix this in the future as for the rest I still feel they are improved versus the original (even more if they would cut on loading time).

[Orchard]

“Regarding the frame rate, it's important to remember that emulation is well, emulation”

But Sony should be able to emulate their own consoles better than open source projects do.

There are plenty of open source PS1/2 emulators written by people with no past knowledge of the platform that outperform this - even on an Xbox Series S.

[Petebloodyonion]

"But Sony should be able to emulate their own consoles better than open source projects do."

Not disagreeing with you here just saying that emulation will often offer slight differences from the original product.
Heck, I could point out that Mario64 on the Switch online is better emulated versus the version given with Mario 3d Allstars.

[Orchard]

@Pete Totally agree with you on the emulator comment. And don’t get me started on Mario AllStars :p

[Amplitude]

Have you tried playing emulators?
You can play locked 4k/60fps on ancient PC with huge boosts to frame rate from original hardware.
My phone emulates these games better than this emulator

[Smellsforfree]

I've been having a blast playing PS1 and PS2 games on my Microsoft Series X and Valve Steam Deck.

[Rocosaurus]

Come on, Sony! Why is this so hard.

[hiawa23]

So, can the PS games be 4k enhanced? Some of these Xbox enhanced games look really good with good performance running on X1X, Series X. I was hoping Sony would do something similar with the games running on PS5.

[Elda]

720p is unacceptable. 1440p & higher is great to play the classic games.

[Extermin8or3_]

Tbh I don't want low resolutions textures etc stretched to be displayed in 4k making the jagged edges even worse and more pronounced. 1080p is sufficient

[Aussiesummer]

I seriously hope this bullshit cash grab bombs hard.

[anast]

And this is one reason why people shouldn't bite on this premium BC stuff.

[brewin]

Just get Microsoft to do the emulation! They got some of those old Xbox / Xbox 360 games to look and run better than some brand new games! And why the hell are the PS3 games cloud only still? Glad I still have my launch PS3, even though it sounds like a jet engine.

[hiawa23]

I agree. I had to pull the PS3 Slim back from retirement as I love all 3 of the Motorstorm, Resistance, and Heavenly Sword games.

[JL2930]

XBOX emulates Sony's own games better, even on Series S. This is a pretty big fail.

[jBlakeeper]

These older games run far better on their native systems.

[Lexreborn2]

And here I am just looking forward to seeing them pop up

[saint_seya]

It does not affect me since i dont play older games, and im only getting psn pluss extra, but i still think this is bs, if they are charging extra for something, they should do it right or not doing it at all. Dont understand how they cant make it work at least as good as it is in pc (i now that computers that are less powerfull than ps5 can run this games much better, wich is something that shouldnt happen at all)

[Charlieboy333]

Has this released in the US and Europe yet? Because there seems to be a lot of Asians airing their "grievances' and sharing their 'concerns' with us. Maybe...just maybe.... Playstation know what they are doing and will use all the feedback from the Asian launch to improve things for their biggest markets i.e. all you wet pants whiners. And as for all of you saying PS back compat is soooo easy....PS2 had a custom Emotion Engine chip. PS3 had a custom Cell Processor chip. Xbox has always had standard PC parts and architecture. That is why it is so EASY to emulate all previous Xbox hardware,while it is more DIFFICULT for PS.......EXCEPT PS4 and PS5 which share the SAME architecture. That is why ANY PS4 disc can be inserted and played on a PS5.....without having to download an emulated version that has to be on the 'list'. For the games MS does decide to do it for, Xbox BC is piss easy compared to Playstation, but we all know that Sony will quickly resolve any issues anyway. So then Sony will have their emulation running 100% PLUS a legacy of killer titles to go with it. On the other hand MS will still have....what? Great BC emulation ? ( for selected games only don't forget ). MS can scrounge around in their archives all they want, but there is nothing even close to worth being BC emulated compared to Sony's catalogue.

[shinoff2183]

Not sure why you got disagrees. Your pretty spot on with what you wrote.

[SullysCigar]

Because this comment thread is an xbox fanboy party. It's infested in here lol

[Charlieboy333]

It's fine.....the more they disagree, the bigger I smile!

[Orchard]

“as for all of you saying PS back compat is soooo easy....PS2 had a custom Emotion Engine chip. ”

But… an Xbox Series S can do PS2, and does it better than this despite being weaker, so why can’t a PS5?

“Xbox has always had standard PC parts and architecture. That is why it is so EASY to emulate all previous Xbox hardware,while it is more DIFFICULT for PS.......EXCEPT PS4 and PS5 which share the SAME architecture”

This is complete garbage. You should brush up on your knowledge before trying to sound factual. The Xbox is in the same boat as PS is. OGXB was x86, and 360 was PowerPC (as was PS3). The XB1 and Series consoles are x64, thus the only games they can run natively / without any back compat effort is other x64 games (so XB1 and XSX).

[Tspite]

They will likely fix these issues, Nintendo had issues when they first launched their emulators. In which they eventually patched. It is weird that they are released in this state in the first place, however…

[gintoki777]

Any comment in support of Sony or giving them a pass for poor emulation on a premium service is in the wrong. There is no excuse for this. Coming from someone who has mostly played on sony consoles since ps1. They need to treat these classic titles with some respect. This is not the ps classic but sadly the situation is similar and at a premium price. Put the funds up to preserve your legacy Sony.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

My computer can run these games better than what Sony is providing that is why in my opinion Sony step up.

[XxINFERNUSxX]

Just torrent all the roms and use emulators on your PC. You can even upscale the games to 4k, plus you can use reshade to make them look even better. ETA Prime has a video on PS2 emulation. https://www.youtube.com/wat... ETA Prime is one of the best out there for any emulation tutorial. I will not pay for old games when I can get them for free. I have a Switch but Nintendo can fuck themselves if they think I will pay for old games again. LOL Why would I when I have thousands of their games for free on my Raspberry pi 4 + thousands of other game console roms as one example. Have a hacked 3DS, GPiCase etc. There is no point guys just get them for free. Plus once you have them there yours forever.

[MeteorPanda]

it's not so bad? theres a cleaner look. you cant help some things man.

[Harkins1721]

Best thing to do is not pay for the Premium service and either have them come out and get their act together and fix things or add in monthly free PS1/PS2 games for the other tiers. I do hope they fix the emulator asap. I'd like to actually try the games out.

[shinoff2183]

Then try them. Its really not that bad. They will fix issues. Ms and nintendo havent been perfect in their emulation either to be honest.

[ChiefofLoliPolice]

I think ill stick with ODE emulator for PS1 and Freemcboot/HDD combo for PS2.

[L1ghtz4lyfe]

Do these older games have trophy support? That influences my personal, decision on whether this could ever be worth it.

[SullysCigar]

They do indeed

[SullysCigar]

Oh, a disagree...they still do though lol

[HeliosHex]

There's literally no excuse for this.