Dying Light 2 is 30 fps on Xbox Series S due to GPU limitation

Tymon Smektala, the lead designer of Techland says the GPU is holding them back.

[Sonyslave3]

All he had to say we are a small devs and didnt have enough time to hit 60fps on series S. Instead of blaming the console it make them look bad when Assassin Creed Vahalla put this game to shame with a 1080p n 60fps and it bigger game.

[KingKionic]

No lies detected.

https://www.youtube.com/wat...

[gravedigger]

I'm just glad that devs are calling out XSS. Just like it was 2 years ago.
Also, when Xbox fan is saying to DL2 dev that "he sucks" you know what time it is. LOL

https://mobile.twitter.com/...

[darthv72]

@digger, the guy didnt say the "he sucks"... he said their "optimization skills" sucks. BIG difference.

[peppeaccardo]

The only reason XSS exist is to grant access to a paid service offered by MS to those who wanna get into (sorta of) next gen gaming for cheapo ! If some more demanding games cannot run well on it they still have plenty of games to play thanks to the aforementioned paid service. Peace out !

[abstractel]

I'm glad too it's being called out. One of Bethesda's Studio's lead programmers called it out a couple of years ago and was swiftly taken down when the acquisition happened. "Parity matters" read part of his tweet. It's going to affect all games but I was really happy to see that Epic got UE5 running relatively well on it. Lets see how it pans out with all developers who use their own tech once cross-platform current-gen only games are here.

[sparky77]

The fact that the PS5 and XSX are both 1080p speaks volumes.

[TheLigX]

They should be able to crank out 1440p+ at 60fps. More graphically intensive games have reached higher frame rates at higher resolutions. Seems to be a development bottleneck that arose from cross-gen development.

[poppatron]

So badly! Even resolution mode is only 1800p on ps5! It’s hardly the greatest looking game in the world.

[seanpitt23]

The fact this game has been in development hell for the past 6 years and multiple delays speaks volumes…

They didn’t have the man power to optimise the consoles..

[hiawa23]

I just said the same thing. Completely agree.

[Christopher]

IMHO, w/what the PS5 is putting out, I'd consider that somewhat criminal for any AAA game. They might be pushing more, but that much that they couldn't have hit 1440p at least. I really hope they keep updating the game to make it better because 1080p60fps is what I would expect on the PS4Pro, not the PS5.

[FanboysKiller]

Resolution boxes on the way , don't worry.

[LordoftheCritics]

DL2 has different needs.

DL2 is dense, extremely vertical, higher movement speeds and quite massive.
Valhalla has higher fidelity but is quite sparse in comparison

Theres way too many factors.

Series S entered the new gen underpowered. It is good enough for the price I guess.

[MecheSlays]

The game is 1080p on xsx and ps5 to hit 60fps. This game is just demanding. Series S is underpowered tho however.

[EvertonFC]

"Series S entered the new gen underpowered. It is good enough for the price I guess"

Exactly, gamers on here thinking £250 series S is gonna play games like series X makes me laugh.
As the saying goes "you get what you pay for"
50% of Xbox gamers this gen are gonna be playing the downgraded version of games on there GP for a dollar.
It's ok for the casual gamer the Series S but gamers who come to sites like this claiming to be hardcore moaning about no 60 fps are clueless and ONLY have themselves to balme.

[Smellsforfree]

"Series S entered the new gen underpowered. It is good enough for the price I guess."

If you don't need a disc drive and 500GB of space is OK, I guess it is good enough for the price. That 500GB proprietary drive that is required for Series games is $90 - $120 - once you are considering that as a need you should be looking at just getting a Series X IMO.

MS's goal with the Series S is clear: cheapest hardware to support the minimal feature set of present gen gaming. They'll still be selling their games and their game pass service so it is a total win for them.

[gamer7804]

He said basically they didn’t have time to properly optimize the game.

[CrimsonWing69]

I’m pretty sure it is due to the limitation of the S

[ChubbyBlade]

Sorry but Valhalla is a large empty world with nothing in it. Dying light is densely packed downtown and suburban areas with plenty of active NPCs on screen. Valhalla is very empty with very little going on. Even during the raids. The Vikings and enemy stand still fighting in position until YOU move forward. There’s so little going on under the hood, all it has is it’s visuals.

[OptimusDK]

All you descibed here is CPU intensive not GPU

[ChubbyBlade]

@optimus

Oh I’m sorry. I didn’t realize the GPU played no role in the game at all. Excuse me oh so wise game developer god who knows how to get the cpu to handle everything. Tell me your ways.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

The SSD is fast enough to serve CPU roles…

[TheLigX]

Dying light 2 is a far better looking game than ac Valhalla.

[EvertonFC]

Do you think series S moving fwd with AAA will get 60fps, if you think YES your delusional.
AC is cross gen bad example, if you think MS new studios making AAA etc will get 60fps from S your mad.

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

First person is tougher on hardware.

[philm87]

A lot of people here with no idea how games work

[Profchaos]

I don't believe the system is incapable of 60 however the loss of fidelity to obtain 60 was to large so a 30 cap was introduced to me it seems like a fiar trade off.

The original games ran at 30 on base consoles so really it's the same thing here the xss is the base console or the x1s to the x1x or the PS4 to the pro as an example.

As we progress then yeah there is going to be a gap a lot of people are predicting that as the system is weaker than the X but with most games being cross gen the targets are fairly easy for the systems to hit.

[garos82]

damage control is super strong with you. enjoy getting bogged down by the series s for the entire generation.

[Binarycode]

Assassins creed is a Dynamic rez on Series s, Running mainly at 1296p @30fps.

The 60fps Version that was patched in is 800p most of the time.

It's GPU bound.

Not sure what you expect from this GPU. It was never a 1440p card in Modern games.

it's 4 tflops ffs.

[Redrex7000]

I am just wondering were the HDR is guess we gotta wait
still good game so far idk about the story its meh

[jonny897]

He clarified further for the armchair experts https://twitter.com/smektal...
"Different games have different needs. DL2 is unique due to density and verticality of its world, it streams more data than most open world games."

[XbladeTeddy]

Sounds like political spin to me. People with 3080's are getting bad performance. Just look on the Steam forums.

[Extermin8or3_]

Thats abit difference that's just probably the lack of optimisation for pc because if the number of possible hardware combos and perhaps the need for new drivers to be released.

[XbladeTeddy]

New drivers were released by NVidia a couple of days before release specifically for Dying Light 2. Dying Light 2 relies heavily on DLSS to get performance up.

Also the combos are not that big. You either have a Ryzen or an Intel CPU and either an AMD or NVidia GPU.

[frostypants]

Could be a CPU bottleneck/bad CPU optimization in some cases.

[gamer7804]

He corrected himself and said the games poor performance on series s and in other areas are due to lack of time to optimize the game properly

[dumahim]

Sounds like limited RAM could be playing a factor as well.

[Orchard]

Shrug, if you buy a Series S you know what you are getting and that game experiences will vary by developer. If you are fine with that, then $299 is a great price.

If you aren’t fine with that, buy a Series X.

[JEECE]

This is a fine sentiment, but it is, of course, a different tune than we were hearing at launch when there was universal insistence on "scalability" and that the RAM and GPU differences between the Series X and S wouldn't affect framerate, only resolution. It was common knowledge one year ago that framerate depended on the CPU, and the Series S has almost the same CPU as the X, so there was no issue there.

[Crows90]

It's a last gen console. All you have to do is look at the comparisons between Xbox one x and series s in terms of game performance.

The one x outperforms or performs similarly.

[Orchard]

@Jeece Marketers will always be marketers.

Some games will hit 60, sure, but your mileage is going to vary a lot depending on the type of game and how much effort the developer puts into optimization.

I think what you get for $300 is fine, if you’re good with the above concessions.

For me personally, I would only buy Series S for emulation (or for kids, but I have none). If I want to start gaming on Xbox I’d bite the bullet and buy the $500 box.

@Crows90 Hard to say it’s a last gen console when it isn’t running anaemic jaguar cores and has the capabilities of ray tracing, next gen SSD etc. it’s a low end, entry model next gen console.

Plus it runs all next gen games while the One X cannot - and for $200 less.

[Prime157]

@Crows90

It was marketed as a current gen. Unfortunately, we can't call it last gen, despite many of us understanding it was sub-par for this gen.

[CrimsonIdol]

The idea with having the S with a lower end GPU targeting lower graphical settings to run 60fps in the same games that the higher spec Series X can play at 60fps is still sound. It could be done. Trouble is if the X and PS5 are only hitting 1080p at their 60fps modes then what kind of resolution and cutbacks are needed to get the same result on the Series S? Apparently more than this developer was willing to make.

I'm surprised that this game does hammer GPUs so hard though, given how overwhelmingly O-K it looks.

[Profchaos]

That's only if you believe the press release plenty of Devs with knowledge of the system countered that official narrative and the system has been more capable than initially thought running the matrix demo as a example in many cases however the gap can be seen as wider than we were lead to believe prior to launch given many games run at 1080 as opposed to the xsx version

@crows90 yes I know what you mean the x1x has been proven to have higher graphical fidelity but often lower frame rates and obviously worse loading speed as for being better depends on what you prioritise yourself I believe it was halo or Forza one of the two better graphics on x1x but at 30fps while xss had worse resolution and graphics but a 60 fps rate

[DeadManMMX]

It has the same CPU as the X. It is not a Jaguar CPU like in the One X. What are you
Talking about?

[frostypants]

Sorry for anyone who believed that was ever more than PR. Obviously a dev can prioritize resolution and effects over framerate.

[Petebloodyonion]

"This is a fine sentiment, but it is, of course, a different tune than we were hearing at launch when there was universal insistence on "scalability" and that the RAM and GPU differences between the Series X and S wouldn't affect framerate, only resolution."

And where did the tune change?
Since the release they basically the Serie S always runs the same game at lower settings
The game could have run at 900P and 60 frames sec but the dev made the game run the same mode on all 3 consoles at the exact same resolution so the frame rate on Serie S had to take the hit.
There's a perfect article explaining all of that.
https://www.ign.com/article...

[gamer7804]

Hate to have to keep typing this but he said I t wasn’t really a hardware fault that it doesn’t reach 60fps is that their timetable didn’t allow for much time to optimize the game properly

[Brazz]

Or a PS5/PS5 digital Editions.

[Orchard]

That’s also a possibility, and only $100 more for the digital. Assuming the person wasn’t wanting an Xbox for some other reason (e.g exclusives or game pass).

I see Series S as the entry level one you buy if you’re not a hardcore gamer, or for your kids or 2nd room etc.

[Bigman4k]

Facts

[EvertonFC]

Exactly

[Sirk7x]

Sold my Series X some months back when I had to move. Bought a Series S the other day (can't find PS5 or X for the life of me), and it's a great little console.

[Atticus_finch]

Or better yet a PS5. For $400 the PS5 puts everything else to shame.

[JEECE]

Part of the problem is that the Series S is by far the easiest new console to find, while the digital PS5 is very difficult to get. The difficulty of getting a disc PS5 has been vastly overstated-if you put in effort, you'll get one. But the digitals are super rare. So that $400 price point isn't as useful as it might be, because most people only have the option to get the Disc PS5.

[John_McClane]

Exactly, I bought a Series S and knew what I was getting, I've been extremely happy with mine.

[jonivtec]

I play on a muscular PC...very muscular...the game was initially designed for OLD Gen consoles and it can be feel.The game is simply to much demanding for the visual result.

[darkrider]

You are paying 299. Want next Gen on Microsoft machines you got to pay 499. That simple.

[SullysCigar]

100 bucks more than series s buys you a PS5 with a more storage and better compression (not to mention all the obvious benefits).

I get that some people want all the consoles and that's fine. If you only want one and you want good value - despite it's low price - series s ain't it imo.

[HardKnockKid24]

Missed the part where he said “on Microsoft machines”

[Orchard]

$100 can be a lot of money to a lot of people though.

Also, you're assuming they WANT to be in an ecosystem other than Xbox - Xbox has some things PlayStation doesn't which are appealing to consumers - like game pass, Zenimax, and soon Activision.

[Eidolon]

Consoles are the investment, don't be buying a console if $100 is too much over 5+ years. damn.
e.g.
$100 over Series S is obviously better if you want your next-gen gaming experience to carry you for those 5 years, and aren't particular about the platform. $100 more is definitely worth it for disc PS5 or Xbox Series X, since you'll find used discs for much cheaper than their digital versions more often, also they have value after you're done with them, and there's rental services.

[EvertonFC]

So many disagree on this topic that I'm astounded gamers think a 299 series S is the same as a 500 series X lol.
The logic baffles me 🙃😂🤣

[lonewolf10]

Is that why all of the disagrees, do you have insider info on who disagreed and why?

[darkrider]

Not even the same gen... The X is more then 3 times the power of the s. Still remember when so many gamers were calling the ps5 weakstation with 10 teraflops... Now imagined in 2022 something that got problems to have 1080p locked and calling it next Gen...

[JEECE]

@darkrider

Haha remember when one of those ex MS employees (Albert Penello I think) was trying to say that the S would have better framerates than the PS5?

[JEECE]

Again, this is fine, but a year ago Series X was a "4K Machine" and Series S was a "1440p Machine" and the games were going to run at the same framerate, just at different resolutions. We were assured that because Series S has almost the same CPU as the X, framerate wouldn't be an issue.

[Knightofelemia]

Not surprised you get what you pay for. The Sony route should have been the way to follow with the S and X same machine same specs minus a disc drive different price points. Wonder how many future titles will be affected by the Series S being underpowered?

[Bigman4k]

Pretty much

[Extermin8or3_]

Sadly I fear It wi be many ofc we won't really know as MS will have contracts for publishing on their hardware that mean devs can't say if it held back the game or not.

[Gamer79]

Because 1080/60 really shows how much more powerful the xsx and ps5 are.

[ABizzel1]

Doubling performance requires at least 2x the overall GPU performance...so to an extent yes it does, and this is one of the few games that is the same across the next-gen platforms. Usually Series S has a lower setting for things like foliage, LODs, and draw distance, but here it's pretty much the exact same version as the Series X which means this game is harder on it's lower amount of RAM which also has significantly less bandwidth.

That being said the performance is pretty much locked 99% of the time on the consoles, meaning there's overhead that could be patched later. Resolution modes could be closer to Native 4K once they find the areas where the bottlenecks may occur and optimize them, Performance modes can creep higher to dynamic 1440p making them much sharper than their native 1080p, and the Series S could possibly see an increase from 1080p to dynamic 1440p as well while still being 30fps, but to get a 60fps mode you'f be looking at Dynamic 900p for marketing terms, but realistically floating around 720p or less.

This games is supposed to go on for 5 years, so patches and updates are likely. Should it be there Day 1, absolutely.

[Atticus_finch]

It depends on the game obviously.

[Deathdeliverer]

Man I called this a loooong time ago and several times. This is just the beginning though. Series S should not exist. Glad I got my Series X day one and the only potential but for me is the Series X max or whatever the mid gen refresh will be.
Microsoft sold the system like it was only going to be a resolution difference. Go back and look at ANY of the PR speak. People on here vehemently gobbled it up and regurgitated the rhetoric. This isn’t the first game to underperform on series S and it won’t be the last. The more demanding the game the more cutbacks have to be made and trade offs taken to offer a similar experience. With series S being the annoying little brother Series X cannot leave behind, I doubt we will ever see Series X full potential on a full ground up exclusive.
Unless…
UNLESS they draw a line in the sand (wayyy after the fact) like they did with the HDDless 360. They sold it as a cheaper entry point with the exact same experience….. then they started saying some games can ONLY be played with a HDD… after you’ve already invested. If they say some games will require a Series X, then the Series X is allowed to fly. Only time will tell but the “change the message” card is definitely in Microsoft’s deck.

[talocaca]

As a Series S owner, it already feels like developers are constantly apologizing for mediocre performance (something Microsoft assured would not be the case).

Even Halo Infinite, a AAA first-party release is a blurry mess at times with less than stellar graphics.

[Elda]

Agreed. Halo Infinite on the XBSS isn't a looker. It should at least have a resolution of 1440p. I don't get why both modes are in 1080p only but one mode is 60fps & the other is 30fps. Smh.

[dumahim]

The thing about 1440p is it's roughly half the pixels of 4K with a third of the GPU power on the Series S. Being that the X isn't even doing native 4K, 1440p on the S is just not realistic.

[Zhipp]

If 1080p isn't enough for you, you never should have bought the series S. Well before either console launched, we'd already seen UE5 running at just 1440p on the PS5. If that's all that the big dogs are capable of, then the absolute best you should have ever expected for demanding games on the series S was 1080p.

[Traecy]

Agreed.

[Extermin8or3_]

Sadly this was predictable.

[Atticus_finch]

To be fair Halo infinite doesn't that good no matter the platform.

[neutralgamer1992]

I know Microsoft's for series s is different but I like the fact Sony didn't split it's console base with different specs for physical and digital versions. For all the talk of scalability Xbox series s is still last generation console basically and in many aspects Xbox One X outperforms it

Sonyslave3

I guess take your words over the developers even though you defend Xbox brand on every article while bashing the competition. How ironic because of your username

[Binarycode]

The game isn't a looker and looks last gen, horrible colour palette and some dodgy textures.

[Aussiesummer]

If only it wasn't cross gen, we'd have a better game.

[Sayai jin]

Hmmmm. Is the fact that the game is 1080P and just 60 FPS limitations of the PS5 and Series X or something else.

[ReignMan_27]

According to some of the comparisons that I've seen on YouTube, there's headroom for the current gen versions of the game so I don't think it's quite limitations of the consoles. Even loading times aren't up to par with current gen ssd standards. With everything that it's been through in regards to development, they probably just wanted to release a good enough/functioning version for the current gen.

[Binarycode]

it's the Engine. Many of the engines are still using older code and workarounds and have poor performance.

Halo Infinite is a prime example. Nothing special graphics wise, but runs like crap on many PC's. Engine is poor.

[Elda]

I have an XBSS. I got my copy of DL2 to play on the PS5. #1 due to the game not being on Gamepass & because of that fact I knew the resolution would look better on the PS5. My XBSS is basically my second console to play games on Gamepass that are exclusive to the XB platform only. Most multi-plats that I'm eager to play I'll play on my PS5 knowing the resolution will look much better.

[thesoftware730]

I think Techland should first look in the mirror before blaming the console. I'm playing on SX and the game is badly optimized, I can only stand to play the game in performance mode. The other modes with 30fps is really bad. I'm playing on an LG OLED with VRR and and that fancy stuff on and it still runs choppy(unless I play in 1080p) They also didn't take advantage of the SSD in the PS5 or SX..wtf is that about? 1000 bugs that needed fixing on day one and more still to be fixed.

The SS might not be all-powerful, but their first step should be to fix their game instead of pointing a finger. It is even more of a sad situation when they can barely manage 60 on the PS5 or SX...it should be clear its the devs more than the consoles.

[Sprucegoose77]

I'm not sure what people expect out of a $299 console with a 4TF GPU. It's not going to be able to run a big detailed world like this at 60FPS. 30FPS is still decent given the price and specs of the S. Let my see a PC for $299 run this game at 1080P / 60FPS!

[TheLigX]

The series S is going to hurt the potential of the new generation.

[Bigman4k]

Not surprise Microsoft should've made the Xbox Series S on the same par as the Xbox Series X took the loss and price the Xbox Series S at $ 350 that still would've gave them the edge over Sony's PlayStation 5 digital console

[moriarty1889]

Agreed. The Series S should have just been a white series x without the disc drive. Games are held back because of it.

[Bigman4k]

Yup but what are you gonna do it is what it is sadly

[Destiny1080]

well have to chalk this up as another embarrassment, for the series s

even 12 teraflops is not enough to do more then 1080p

[EvertonFC]

Never/S

[thejigisup]

"I missed the part where that's my problem" - Peter Parker

[gold_drake]

yeh i mean, i dont think many of us are surprised.

however, it seems to be a very demanding game if current gen is 1080p

[brewin]

I have an x and an s use the x in my bedroom and the s in the living room for the kids to use mostly, but I test games out on it sometimes. DL 2 still looks and runs good on the S. For $300 it's actually alot of bang for the buck. A Series S with a GP sub is a much better investment than a switch honestly. GP has a ton of family games and my kids don't even touch their switches except to play Mario Odyssey once in a while. I was impressed with how good the S keeps up though.

[RickRoland]

It’s only keeping up because a majority of current games are on last gen engines. We’ll see how this looks in a couple years, I think you’ll start to see a bigger gap between the X and S once all these games start moving to UE5 etc.

[brewin]

I'm sure it will be fine. It's really a console designed more for those who haven't upgraded to a 4k tv yet. Those people really don't care about the fanciest graphical features and such.

And besides, look how many people game on PC using older machines. Sure they don't get the best specs on those older PCs, but they are out there and that hasn't hindered PC gaming. The series S is just like a lower end PC in that regard. It has the guts to be able to run all the games, they just may not have all those graphical bells and whistles. It has the SSD and slightly less powerful guts, but for 90% of the mass market, it's good enough. It runs Forza, Halo, Dying Light, etc etc etc all extremely well. You telling me those aren't big, generationally significant games? You don't understand the gaming business clearly.

The "generational lines" have clearly been blurred. There's no longer this invisible ceiling on gaming generations. The S will be able to run all the games even if it's not capable of the OMG 4k 120HZ with Ray tracing, VRR, HDR and every other buzzword turned on at the same time. The S is a very savvy move by MS, Especially combined with Gamepass.

[RickRoland]

"And besides, look how many people game on PC using older machines. Sure they don't get the best specs on those older PCs, but they are out there and that hasn't hindered PC gaming. The series S is just like a lower end PC in that regard. It has the guts to be able to run all the games, they just may not have all those graphical bells and whistles. It has the SSD and slightly less powerful guts, but for 90% of the mass market, it's good enough. It runs Forza, Halo, Dying Light, etc etc etc all extremely well. You telling me those aren't big, generationally significant games? You don't understand the gaming business clearly."

Thats a complicated comparison...mostly because upgrading PC's to play at the highest settings requires routine upgrades which = $$$. When you're buying a locked box (consoles) which is a one and done purchase, the S to a mid grade PC comparison falls apart. People use what they have often times because they cannot afford all the upgrades necessary to maintain top performance in the PC world. However, People reduce fidelity settings to maintain high frame rates and high resolution even on mid level PC's. The issue with the Series S is it doesn't maintain high framerates or higher resolutions by player choice. It is locked to the developers discretion and Dying Light is a prime example of being extremely limited with FPS caps and resolution caps. A mid tier PC gamer can find a degraded setting but still look good without being a blurry mess and be in the 50FPS range.

The Series S was sold as a 1440p version of the Series X....and it is anything but.

[Traecy]

Exactly. Halo Infinite has a quality mode & a performance mode on the XBSS. Both modes are 1080p but one is 30fps while the other is 60fps. Quality mode should be at least 1440p 30fps & performance mode 1080p 60fps.

[brewin]

I never saw it marketed as that, but it pretty much is just that. It's all about optimization. It wasn't that long ago that 1080p and 60 FPS was a pipe dream. Now it's not good enough. This is the problem when spec chasing happens. It's never going to be good enough when you're always chasing cutting edge specs. Pretty soon 4k 120 won't be good enough cuz we'll have 8k 120 with full Ray tracing etc etc. Then repeat ad nauseam. Series S is a damn fine system, the only ones not saying so are not or have never played it. There going by articles like this to make a judgement on something they've never tried.

[RickRoland]

"I never saw it marketed as that, but it pretty much is just that. It's all about optimization. It wasn't that long ago that 1080p and 60 FPS was a pipe dream. Now it's not good enough. This is the problem when spec chasing happens. It's never going to be good enough when you're always chasing cutting edge specs. Pretty soon 4k 120 won't be good enough cuz we'll have 8k 120 with full Ray tracing etc etc. Then repeat ad nauseam. Series S is a damn fine system, the only ones not saying so are not or have never played it. There going by articles like this to make a judgement on something they've never tried."

the 120Hz 120fps stuff is definitely spec chasing..but 4K is becoming pretty common nowadays and 4K tv's are cheap to purchase. It is not spec chasing to want your video games / movies / television to run at the tv's native resolution. Nobody has a 4K tv and says "I sure wouldn't mind a downscale in resolution". The difference between 1080p and 4K is a larger jump than 720p to 1080p was. Technology is constantly advancing and trying to obtain the new standard shouldn't be mocked. You could also argue that a majority of the population can't distinguish between 60fps and 120fps. I have Dying Light 2 on my SX and going to quality mode in 30fps after playing performance mode is absolutely jarring. When games have been 30fps for generations, your eye adjusts to that. Once you see 60fps it's incredibly difficult to go back. I'm certainly not knocking the S. It has a purpose and it's targeted at a specific group of people with its focus on the simplicity of gamepass and the cheaper price point. I just question people's outlook on it's ability to keep up with the PS5/X when it's not even keeping pace at the start of year 2 out of 6 when most current next-gen games started development on last gen consoles. Devs have to do more work to optimize games for the S. When the PS4 and One X are out of the picture in another year or so, the S will be the hindrance and I am skeptical that devs will put all their efforts into making games run at max level on that system when they're on such timelines and trying to pump out beautiful games for Xmas or whenever their target releases are. Just look how games run on the Xbox One vs One X. Newer last generation games were pretty unplayable at times on it.

[Magog]

How long before devs feel the need to drop support for it altogether? How would Microsoft react? Maybe there could be a cloud version for series S like the cloud versions available on Switch for certain games.

[Atticus_finch]

That won't happen this gen. When you agree to make gamea for Xbox it has to work on series S and X. Xbox will be held back the entire generation.

[DeadManMMX]

Small team didn’t want to optimize as seen by a 1080p resolution on the X and PS5. Weak putting that out there when other teams have optimized well and shown the S is capable.

[Gamer79]

1080/60 xsx, ps5
1080/30 xss
Not much difference on a console that is £200 cheaper.

[brewin]

Exactly. $300 is a great entry point for the current generation of gaming for the mass market.

[hiawa23]

I am still wondering how the PS5 and Series X, the best they could do is 1080P 60. How? Did they not have enough time or what here?

[brewin]

It's pretty much a case of not wanting to delay again. Get it stable and out the door then optimize over the following months. This is the norm now. Early adopters are basically the testers. We are unwittingly helping with the development of these games. It's not just this either. This is just how the games work now. It's basically the gaming equivalent of self checkout!

[hiawa23]

I get it. This one went from an automatic purchase to rental.

[brewin]

@Hiawa

I never buy games on day 1 anymore, but I loved Dying Light so I splurged. It's a huge and great game so far. I don't think you can really get much out of a rental with this type of game. I'm like 15 hours in and barely scratching the surface. To each their own, but I think this thing is an easy purchase if you like this kind of game. Imagine Dying Light 1 with a bit of Assassin's Creed, Far Cry and Breath of the Wild thrown in. I'm loving it!

[hiawa23]

PC games are designed for the top specced to the middle to the lower specced setup. Why is it an issue for the consoles? Just make the best game each hardware allows.

[plmkoh]

I don't think people understand but the this game has some of the highest counts of real time lighting effects in any game. That's really clear when you see it in motion and turn on ray tracing. The density of objects in view is also very high for a open world game.

[RickRoland]

Yep. It may not be the highest polygon count game or have the most amazing character models but it is rendering ALOT.

[rakentaja]

All open world games on the Series S (Far Cry 6, Metro Exodus, etc.) are 60 fps ... they should look in the mirror and upgrade their game engine.

[brewin]

Exactly, this is not due to the power of S like some people are saying. It's funny cuz many of those comments are coming from people who don't even care about this game, just using this article to fit their narrative.

[OneLove]

Bro literally in the entire world the saying "you get what you pay for" rings loud. You're paying a 200 buck difference and you never thought to yourself, "this might be less powerful"? Lmfao people are delusional.

[ALMGNOON]

I mean Series S performs like last gen consoles, it can't even run games on 4k...

[darthv72]

Yes it can... The Touryst and Ori Will of Wisp both run native at 4k.

[Traecy]

Those are indie games. Most current AAA exclusives & multiplats on the XBSS are no higher than a 1080p resolution which I find disappointing. Crossfire X releases this week,I'm guessing that'll be 1080p only as well on the XBSS.

[gravedigger]

Quote :

"@digger, the guy didnt say the "he sucks"... he said their "optimization skills" sucks. BIG difference. "

It is not big difference or any difference at all when developer said to him "we didn't suck at all", So, pathetic Xbox fan surely implied that dev sucked as dev surely said that too to him they didn't sucked at all. Don't defend dumbass armchair Xbox fan.

[Rdeal]

Yes it can there are games in 4k and the S having the same cpu as the X means that you should only have to lower the res to counter the GPU and ram difference, which most games do and you say it runs games like last gen i didn't know that last gen had loads of games that run at 60fps and some at 120

[brewin]

I wish Microsoft would just release a $400 Series XS console. The same guts as a Series X without the disc drive and the same form factor as the S, but obviously slightly bigger. It's all about choice.

[hiawa23]

I am still baffled why MS did not go this route like Sony, especially since releasing last gen's X1X and graphics capability was so important for that console. I get what MS was going for with the Series S, especially at $299, but many are asking how does MS go from the X1X to the Series S?

[brewin]

Being an owner of X1X and a Series S, I can honestly say the Series S is still a better system. Sure the X1X has more RAM but it's still an Xbox One. I started out paying AC Valhalla on 1X, then got my Series S. Playing Valhalla on the S after the 1X was a revelation! I was finally able to grab a series X a couple of months later but the Series S is a seriously good system and a significant upgrade from the X1X, and is truly a part of this current generation, despite the narrative. Cyberpunk was another game that ran like ass on the X1X but great on the S. I think the only thing the X1X might have over the S is the higher RAM for sightly higher res textures in some cases.

[Flewid638]

Never cared about Xbox, only been a PlayStation and PC fan.....but this is bullsh*t. lol. We all know the system is fully capable.

[anast]

The S should be half the asking price. 250 is way too much. The thing is jank.

[brewin]

Not even close. Troll harder. The S is great for the price. It's not janky at all. It's a peppy little box that has a surprising amount of power for the cost!

[anast]

It's too much for what it can't do.

[MadLad]

It's actually a pretty cool system. You're just a hater.

[anast]

It might be cool, but it is jank compared to the X and the 5. It's too much for what it can't do. The value isn't there. This is not subjective unlike the term "hater".

[FanboysKiller]

Imagine the next mirror's edge being 1080p n 30 but it just feels real.

[Goozex]

Lol

[LWOGaming]

This was always going to happen. It’s a great little box but once devs start avoiding putting any effort in it will quickly become a thing of the past.

[Harryvok]

I totally believe the Series S GPU is bottleneck in game optimisation. I think as games get more graphically detailed over the generation, we'll see lower settings or resolutions on the Series S.

Having said that, I think Dying Light 2 is not very well optimised. 1080p for 60fps on PS5/XSX shows that. It's a decent looking game, but certainly nothing special.

[Viljong]

This game is super lazy made. Lol the looks dont justify bad performance. Not even HDR available. Far cry 6 look so much better than this. Its a buggy game aswell. Made with ancient game engine. This is clearly last gen game. There aint very many variants of zombies like days gone. Becouse last gen limitations.

[Traecy]

It doesn't have in game hdr but you can implement hdr from the console. PS5 or XBSX.

[Viljong]

Techland aint indie but not triple a studio either. They didnt have the staff to optimize the game on so many consoles and pc. There is not even hdr. Compared to other next gen games this should be 4k60fps easily series x. And 1440p 60fps series s.

[gravedigger]

I hope that bunch of developers will call out XSS.

[TicklefistCP]

I mean 1080/60 on Series X and PS5 isn't too great either.

[SolidDuck]

It's a $299 system, who cares. I have a series s, love it. I didn't buy it for it's top of the line specs.

[MadLad]

So what about the PS5, Series X, and PC versions also running like crap, despite higher end hardware?