Google countersues Epic using Apple's core arguments

Google Says Epic's mainly after "tremendous monetary gain and wealth".

lodossrage5d ago

Google will probably win all of their suit.

The only part of the suit Apple lost so far against Epic was the alternate payment issue.

Google already allows other payment options as Android is open. So I expect them to have better results in court than Apple did. And rightfully so since this is all about Epic trying to look like the good guy while purposely breaching agreements in an effort to maximize Fornite profits without sharing it.

I dislike all these companies, they're all greedy as hell. But Epic is the one in the wrong here

VenomUK5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

So the two biggest and most profitable businesses in the world are using legal measures to stop another company from disrupting their monopoly.

lodossrage5d ago

Epic has tencent backing them. So it's not like they're some weaklings.

And if you see the court emails, Epic literally went on an attack campaign before either company ever responded to their demands. Also, you don't sign an agreement and then get mad because the terms don't favor you.

They aren't some every day customer like the rest of us. Epic has lawyers that read over these things that the rest of us could care less about. So they were aware of what they're doing.

To be fair, it's exactly like you said VenomUK. But let's not make it like Epic is this tiny mom and pop company that two giants are trying to just crush.

TheDoomedGuy5d ago

No. Epic is breaching their contract which they agreed to follow. It's that simple. Epic couldn't gone and created another storefront but they didn't.

Lore5d ago

With all due respect, you sound ridiculous. A 30% cut on a device that is owned by nearly a billion people. They take no part in the hard work and development of these games/apps. There needs to be room for discussion and if Epic did not do what they did then nothing would ever change. They should be praised for stepping up and challenging them.

lodossrage5d ago

no one ever said there isn't a need for discussion. But you don't do that AFTER you go into business with a company knowing what that entails..

as for the amount of people that own iphones, so what? Apple never told other tech companies to NOT make phones and compete. Why can't their masters at Tencent invest in phone R & D to develop their own and not deal with anyone else?

And why isn't Epic challenging Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo on the 30% cut? Since Epic puts games on consoles too.

Epic is no white knight savior here. We're talking about the same Tim Sweeney that tried to fearmonger PC gaming by saying Microsoft would firmware steam to the point of being unplayable in favor of Windows gaming. Only for a year later Epic game store to release and hence the REAL reason he "defended" steam comes to light.

You'll never see me complain about Google and Apple getting competition because lord knows it's needed. But not the way Epic is going about it.

And on a personal note, I hate the fact that I find myself agreeing with google/apple in this case. And my disdain for them both is pretty extensive so.... lol

Lore5d ago


I could be mistaken on this front as I do not have time to locate the source, but I believe an iphone has now been deemed an “economic necessity.” So with that, those that support the platform with content should not be subject to such high fees. Obviously Epic lost on the topic of that logic but it still has some merit

Hofstaderman5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

But it's their platform. Just so happens tens of millions of people have I phones and other Apple devices. Did Epic cover Apples R and D, marketing and upkeep of their systems? If they don't like Apples terms they don't have to publish apps on their ecosystem. It boils down to Epic wanting to maximize profits.

TheDoomedGuy5d ago

Epic and apple are perfectly capable of discussing the agreement on their own terms. So are any other developers out there.

I guarantee you that if devs all pulled their games apple would adjust their profit share.

D3TH_D33LR5d ago

Then discuss. Lmao you don’t preemptively drop your own terms and conditions as way of bullying a company into your own demands, have an edited cgi video ready to weaponizing your fans and and make flippant remarks about said companies policies. Emails show epic was hostile from the start. What a farce to think epic is challenging any of these companies to make it better for anyone else. They only want special treatment for themselves because of the product they created. They don’t care about who made what infrastructure. Nobody’s is forced to buy an iPhone lmfao

DarthMarvin4d ago

@Lore Did you see that on an Apple fan site?

lodossrage4d ago


The Iphone is deemed a necessity by who?

The Iphone is NOT a necessity. Android is out there and actually have more phones sold than Iphones. Samsung Galaxy, Sony Xperia, Huawei, and a plethora of other phones exist

You can't be a necessity when there is a competitor available. Now a phone in general can be seen as a necessity

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Knightofelemia5d ago

I'll laugh if Microsoft jumps in this lawsuit against Epic all we need now is Samsung and Sony to jump on board. This is even better then the old Samsung vs Apple fight.

VenomUK5d ago

Microsoft has indirectly sided with Epic. It is allowing Epic and Amazon's stores directly through Windows app store. It has said that the reason the Xbox store charges commission to publishers is specifically because Xbox is a loss making business model, and it implied that a platform that is profitable, such as the Apple app store, shouldn't be charging 30% commission.

spwittbold5d ago

what if it is only profitable because it charges that rate though >.> hypothetically speaking (i know this is not the case).

lodossrage5d ago

that's not a good argument venom.

We can't count anyone's money and say "company B operates at a loss so it's ok to charge 30%"

And the 30% commission fee drop is only for xbox on pc, not xbox consoles. And they only JUST did that when Epic and Apple went to court. Before that, Xbox had no problem having the same 30% commission on pc that they do on consoles now.

VenomUK4d ago

@lodossrage You're right, it isn't a good argument! But that was the case made by Microsoft in the Epic vs Apple case. It's not going to charge any commission to app developers who sell through the Windows store, although game publishers will have to pay 12%.

So why has Microsoft shifted its stance? I believe it's because where it is the market leader in desktop OS it has almost zero market share in the mobile OS space* and that is very dangerous for it so it wants to weaken that monopoly.

*some die-hard fans still love their Windows 8 Phones!

chadwarden5d ago

Sony won't sue a company they're invested in and working with

Knightofelemia5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Sarcasm and joking must be something you missed out on

chadwarden5d ago

Considering no one else picked up this supposed sarcasm/joke, might want to work on your sarcasm/joke delivery.

Bladesfist4d ago (Edited 4d ago )

Not sure I follow this logic, I'd imagine that being an investor in a company means you are much more likely to bring litigation against them in general. Especially a company who willingly breaches contracts with your competitors and brings PR campaigns against them. Especially when the thing that caused the breach of contract and litigation is something you are also doing, 30% cut, no alternative stores.

LordoftheCritics5d ago

''Google Says Epic's mainly after "tremendous monetary gain and wealth".

Lol one thief to another.

NeoGamer2325d ago


None of these companies would like nothing more then fleece money from consumers. And they do it all the time.

NovusTerminus5d ago

Make no mistake, Epic is completely out to make a profit, however I do side with them because it could help out smaller developers.

I don't care about Apple, Epic, and Google getting richer. But ultimately it can help the app developers make more money and I side with Epic on this... Even if they are just trying to get richer under the guise of helping the little guy, they are the only company who could make a move like this at all.

DreadHealer5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Smaller developers are going to spend more money setting up and maintaining a secure marketplace than they spend letting apple and google maintain it for them, as well as covering the legal liabilities.

People act like Apple ect. are just taking money and not giving anything in return, but they are taking the legal responsibility and burden from these developers. I don't think these devs realize how easily they could be sued if they get hacked and reveal something like a person's CC or other things.

It's one thing for Epic who can afford lawyers and host secure transactions, it's a whole other thing for these fly by night devs.

And as a consumer are you going to give some shady dev your CC info to buy a MTX? I sure as hell am not. But at least when you give it to Apple you can feel safe that Apple isn't going to turn around and steal your CC to commit fraud.

NovusTerminus5d ago

I didn't mean for the dev to set up a market place, this lawsuit is attempting 3 main things

Off app purchases (which I agree small devs won't have the ability to use)
Larger split for the dev (88/12 rather then 70/30)
Or 3rd party store launchers (which would be an Epic launcher which would then compete with the main launcher)

I understand the store front split is normal for most digital store fronts. But im more interested in giving more of my money to the developer then I am lining Apples $2,000,000,000,000 or even Googles $1,800,000,000,000 worth.

Sephiroushin4d ago

Not only that, then theres charge back from someone using a stolen credit card because they are not fully protected, I remember a small dev that had to close because a hacker bought many keys using stolen CC; and he had to pay a lot 0f 20$ for those charge backs and that was just because that dev didnt want to sell only directly on steam or others stores and wanted to maximize profit which is understandable but there are risks ...

ufo8mycat5d ago (Edited 5d ago )

Google Says Epic's mainly after "tremendous monetary gain and wealth"

Hilarious coming from Google, the company that is suing

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