Hands-on with the new PlayStation 5 CFI-1100 series console

Richard Leadbetter:

The new CFI-1100 series revision of PlayStation 5 is now making its way to market, bringing with it a wave of controversy. It began with the intriguing news that beyond revised WiFi and a new screw for the stand, the CFI-1100 model weighs 300g less than the original - an interesting puzzle that could only be solved by going hands-on. The first journalist to do that was Austin Evans, whose teardown and analysis answers a lot of questions, but raises others. Last night, I procured a unit myself, so I can add some initial insights based on my first few hours with the machine.

[Jin_Sakai]

“According to Digital Foundry after an hours long hands-on that does not seem to be the case.“

Great to hear. So much for Austin Evans claims.

[Eonjay]

But the point was never to be accurate or truthful. Never. It was to take a shot at Sony and get the clicks that come along with breaking a big story against the number one competitor. Every three days or so there is another attempt. Its just incredibly obvious at this point. And therefore boring.

[Silly gameAr]

The people that call it out are considered trouble makers, and brand loyalists.

The fact that most of the media took something some youtuber said as fact, and ran with it, should tell you the state the industry is in.

[darthv72]

Despite how people feel about Austin, what he showed was still correct. the heatsink was reduced in size and surface area and the output temperature was slightly warmer. Like i said before, that doesnt make it better or worse, just different as revisions usually are.

The changes made result in normal operating range for the system. That should be the takeaway. The fact the guy who did this reveal is a shill or not is incidental. Point is someone was going to find out why there is a difference and he was it. I dont really care about his personal views, only that we were able to compare side by side the physical differences between the two. That is something that cannot be contested because it is right there in the open.

How he phrases his words... that's on him. And take it or leave it, this is a change that can benefit Sony (reduced costs) and still stay with in the norm.

[SullysCigar]

This. Austin Evans just cemented his (terrible) reputation.

[Eonjay]

Most telling of all is that Richards conclusion seems to be that the heatsink in the PS5 never needed to be that large. So remember back before the consoles launched and the rumor going around was that the price of the PS5 would be driven higher due to the cooling system?

Richard wonders why this revision wasn't included in the original system and explains how these separate components are iterated on

[Rhythmattic]

darthv72
You'll never run the empire.

[Sarcasm]

@darthv72

That's the problem, he didn't just put out a video and say "Here's the differences, it is what it is"

No, the video title is "The new PS5 is Worse"

The word "Worse" already implies the original PS5 was bad.

Obviously designed as clickbait.

[NeoGamer232]

Ya, "news" is becoming very, very sketchy all over. Seems like the influencers in the news are becoming more and more about fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and less about facts.

[ElvisHuxley]

@Silly gamear This is exactly how the "news" media behaves. They'll make any claim, no matter how ridiculous, on the flimsiest grounds. All you need is an "anonymous source" and you can claim anything, random internet person is kind of the equivalent in gaming media. It's not a huge issue in gaming media, apart from being annoying and frustrating, but when they openly lie about serious matters going on in the world, it just causes confusion and division. Everything is driven by traffic and revenue, integrity and honesty are dead, unfortunately.

[The Wood]

There's always one guy fighting the fight.....smdh

[Outside_ofthe_Box]

Once again people acting like they are better engineers than Cerny.

On to the next made up controversy.

[gravedigger]

Austin Evans, the Xbox shill idiot.

[BrettAwesome]

Yup. Punchable dork. Like that annoying kid down the road who'd yell shit and then run home and hide behind mommy before you could get him.

[Zulu]

BrettAwesome

I wish I was as tough as you. Calling someone a punchable dork because they made a video about a heat sink in a games console shows how mature and downright awesome you are. Well done sir.

[BrettAwesome]

@Zulu
Did you just call me "sir"? 😂
"Sir, I'm afraid I'm gonna have to respectfully ask you to apologise to the gentleman you just offended" 😂 you're killin' me, man!

[gravedigger]

Man.

"The heat sink has fewer heat pipes (four vs six) and is built with an overall reduction in the copper content - aluminium only has 60 percent of the thermal conductivity of copper. There is another interesting change to the design: the fan has been replaced by another that has more blades, potentially capable of pushing more air out at the same speeds."

There are 6 heatpipes in the new PS5. LOL How DF missed that, but they have new PS5 in front of them :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/...

https://cdn.discordapp.com/...

[neutralgamer1992]

MS pay people like them to stir up negative stuff about playstation. MS admitted that much back with Xbox one and even used KZ shadow fall screen shot to promote Xbox one. This is nothing new

They simply lost the market share to playstation and no matter how desperate they become that won't change. They invested billions and have yet to get their money's worth yet Sony spent $256 million on insomniac and got all their money's worth and than some.

[darthv72]

this has nothing to do with them though. Stop trying to make everything seem like XB vs PS.

[Zulu]

What has that got to do with a video about a PS5 heat sink? I swear everyday this site gets worse

[Stanjara]

That dweeb always makes a clickbait video full of bs.

[DarXyde]

I think, in general, it's a good idea to really take the time to stress test, which I think neither did.

Even if it was a bit hotter, it doesn't matter if it's within normal operation range. Either way, Austin Evans' evaluation was shoddy. DF's is perhaps not comprehensive enough.

[Ninver]

That man child is a troll. Never believe a word he utters.

[hangdang]

If there is an acceptable temperature RANGE, then it can still run hotter than the OG model and not be an issue. What he said is factually correct, it just runs hotter. It isn't inherently bad

[TheDibbler]

The piece from DF doesn’t say there is no difference in temps from new and old version. Just that it still seems within spec and there would be no difference to the user as they perform equally. The new version still produces more heat and probably runs a bit hotter. Austin’s findings weren’t debunked…..just that it shouldn’t be considered worse than the original.

[ElvisHuxley]

Imagine my shock, lol. People will do anything to gin up controversy, good idea to be skeptical of just about anything on the internet.

[IRetrouk]

👀

[Ron_Danger]

So can we put this to bed yet? Unfortunately for one camp, this is not the news they hoped for. Your hopeful RRoD equivalent problem is in another castle.

[iplay1up2]

I don't think most Xbox fans would want PS5 to have the equivalent of RROD. Judging from any positive Xbox article, I couldn't say the same for fans of other systems.

[DivineHand125]

I don't think any reasonable people were thinking this would lead to rrod or something similar. The original launch unit was not perfect and what I am most eager to see is if the memory modules are being cooled better than the original.

[ABizzel1]

You underestimate how few people are actually reasonable. Many of these people are flat-out ignorant.

[JackBNimble]

ABizzel
You must be referring to psfanboys, truly the biggest console simps , defending sony no matter what sony does.

It's laughable to the extent you sonybois go .

Divinehand
If you shrink a heatsink you don't get less heat you get more.
Maybe the original heat sink was over kill and the new version is adequate. But there is now way a smaller heat sink that use less copper is going to dispel more heat, any pc enthusiast would tell you that.

Waiting for gamer nexus to test the new ps5.

[Smellsforfree]

I kinda agree with DFs analysis: concluding that a loss of mass in the heat sink will lead to actually better cooling isn't founded in reason. More likely, the original heat sink for the PS5 was overkill and it was an area they could reduce costs without effecting performance. In the end if you get a new PS5 it is just as fine as the release ones because they are all operating within their specification limits.

[ElvisHuxley]

Sony have always made pretty high quality hardware, wish more people would take things they hear from the internet and media with a grain of salt, as it's usually warranted.

[cbuc1125]

This story is starting to "heat up".

[Ron_Danger]

You forgot to slowly lift off your shades as Pete Townsend yells “YYYYYEEEAAAHHH!!!”

[Ron_Danger]

🤦‍♂️

[GhostofHorizon]

Most of us knew this all along. The new one is warmer but there is no significant performance or heat issues.

Few degrees one way or another aren't going to break or make the machine.

[ocelot07]

How's it warmer? The way I'm thinking is. The new fan is pushing out the hot air at a faster but quieter rate. Meaning cpu is likely cooler but the exhaust of the console is hotter because the fan is pushing it all out quicker.

[navi87]

If the CPU is the source of the heat, how can it be running cooler if the PS5 has warmer air inside it? Smaller heatsink means worse cooling performance.

Apparently the fan has less fins now too as well, so the extra 3-4mm length of the fins probably cancel it out.
But 55 degrees is well within thermal thresholds, its nothing to worry about at all. Who ever said thermal throttling could be an issue is just an idiot.
Cant deny the facts though, this is a slightly worse performing device in regards to cooling.

[GhostofHorizon]

Navi sums it up pretty well there.

[darthv72]

My theory for why the exhaust is warmer actually stems from a lower spinning fan (hence quieter) that is able to move the air at nearly the same rate. By reducing the rotation speed (slightly) not only do you get a quieter sounding fan but also increased exhaust temps as the air inside is staying inside for just a tiny amount longer.

The notion that the fan is moving the air through quicker would result in cooler exhaust, not warmer.

[Eonjay]

@Navi

You are saying that you don't understand the purpose of a heatsink.
The CPU is running at the same power level as the original according to DF. This means that by itself the CPU produces the same heat. Therefore if it's the same and the exhaust is hotter then it means that the cooling (heatsink and fan) is pulling more heat off of it meaning it's better.

Where do you think the warm air comes from?

[Nitrox]

@eonjay
Less surface area to dissipate the heat results in it building up. Yes the cpu will produce the same amount of heat, but now it’s being stored in a smaller area while waiting to be expelled.

Same thermal output going into a smaller surface area. It’s not the end of the world and I’m not sure why so many people are trying to spin it so hard.

I’m sure Sony knows what they’re doing. Looked at the thermal tolerance of the components and determined they had room to comfortably cut some of the heatsink to save on manufacturing and shipping costs. It wasn’t some arbitrary decision that wasn’t thoroughly tested before finalizing the design.

The “it's more efficient” rebuttal is a little silly. Thats not how cooling works.

I’m a huge Sony fan myself , but a little disappointed so many have jumped on the “efficiency” bandwagon instead of focusing on the argument that a few degrees isn't going to matter. It’s just flamewar fodder.

[OB1Biker]

@Nitrox
Less surface but better air flow.
The jury is out

[Eonjay]

Nitrox

It clearly is more efficient. That's why people keep saying that. If a smaller heatsink concentrates more heat from the CPU that can expelled via the fan it's more efficient. It is better than the original PS5 because it is pulling more heat from the APU. The APU isn't hotter. In fact it's probably cooler.

I hate it when people prey on others lack of technical knowledge.

[VariantAEC]

navi87
55 degrees?
Just 55? For the whole SoC!?

What were people freaking out about?My laptop doesn't even run that cool with both built-in fans running at nearly 6,000 RPM!
Now obviously I don't run the fans that fast (as they die real fast when they're running full-boar, learned that rendering animations). Even though those components are cheap and very easy to replace (myself), it's not something I want to repeatedly waste $14 on every year.

[ALMGNOON]

not warmer u dense fk..

[GhostofHorizon]

Learn to read.

[Darkborn]

I like how the article is picking up heat, just like the new ps5. Lol just kidding.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

This ps5 article is crazy hot unlike the ps5 lol.

[Sarcasm]

The only people who truly know if the cooling is better or worse is Sony, because they know what the chip temperature will actually run at.

And this is laughably basic at this point, but silicon will have a tolerance of heat on what is acceptable. It's like an Intel processor with a tjunction of 100C. It's designed to throttle at that temperature, and will only truly degrade at 105-110C.

So for the PS5 chip, who knows how much tolerance they allowed? What if theoretically with the previous heatsink it ran at 50C and say tjunction is at 90C (this number is also based on a Ryzen 5800X just for something with 8 cores 16 thread.) And maybe with the new heatsink runs at 55-60C and it's still well within tolerance, they figured with the cost savings of reduced materials (which = more PS5s made by the way) they went with the smaller heat sink.

We just won't know unless Sony confirms it. The problem with Austin's video is making a conclusion something is worst without actual data is telling, his video is designed for pure click bait and misinformation.

[elazz]

With the previous the cpu and gpu ran around 65C I believe at maximum power draw.

The thermal throttle temps for zen 2 are 95-100C and rdna2 it is 110C I think. So still Miles away.

[Sarcasm]

Yes exactly, good point on the RNDA temp also. I'm pretty sure they have tested this thoroughly and found it's all below the tolerance.

[--Onilink--]

Well, it was high 60s to mid 70s using a method that was clarified would produce lower results than the actual temperatures because they could only get up to a certain distance without disassembling the cooler and interacting with the liquid metal. So it was probably more of a mid 70s to low 80s.
Still well within range for it to run a bit hotter.
There was one memory module that was running right up against the limit though, so hopefully that hasnt gotten worse (or more modules are now the same)

[z2g]

soooo.... we are doing hands on with cooling fans now.....

stuff like this is stupid. do ppl honestly think Sony or MS don't run this hardware thru the gauntlet regarding thermals/safety before releasing to the public?? like Sony is gonna risk catching houses on fire so it can swap a heat sink out? gimme a break.. this is how stupid media coverage and console wars have gotten. and all the ppl burning PlayStations and xboxes to make some conspiracy so you get likes and clicks... you're pathetic.

This is just more vape-gate hype. its like consoles are like American politics now...

[--Onilink--]

The same could be said for almost every product in existence and yet recalls still exist, and rrod and yellow light on PS, exploding samsung phones, etc

Your willingness to assume that every single product is going to be perfectly built every single time or that manufactures will never push things to certain limits to decrease costs as much as possible is quite naive haha

[EvertonFC]

Breaking news, "it runs the same" 🙄

[chiefJohn117]

Austin got PS fanboys heated!!! Lol

[darkrider]

The money that this Austin Evans got was well spent. He was able to create a fake news. Its just a shame that Sony doesnt put a lawsuit. In America i believe he could go to jail. Spreading lies... «No way this can be a better cooling system»....

[DJStotty]

It's quite simple :-

1) PS5 components operate at the same thermal range.
2) Difference in cooling solution extracts heat from components at a faster rate, giving the illusion the console is "warmer"

[--Onilink--]

If heat was dissipating faster, the heatsink would be cooler as well, which should mean that the exhaust is cooler too.

There is no illusion, pushing more air wont make an exhaust hotter, the temperature of the exhaust is determined by the temperature of the heatsink that the air is trying to cool.

I still cant quite understand how people are expecting a heatsink that is half the size of the original with a significant amount of copper reduction not to run hotter. Is it a significant increase? Probably not, but the chances of it magically running at the same temp with half the heatsink are probably negligible

[StoneyYoshi]

"If heat was dissipating faster, the heatsink would be cooler as well, which should mean that the exhaust is cooler too."

Thats incorrect. If it's dissipating more heat then that means the heatsink is absorbing more heat from the CPU which its its job. The goal isn't to make the heatsink cooler, it's to make the CPU cooler which is what this new combination could be doing. Having a smaller heatsink can allow air to flow through the internals more efficiently since theres more open space inside resulting in hotter air expelling from the exhaust.

We wont know for sure until Gamers Nexus does a in depth analysis because DF wont be going that far with this. I wouldn't have faith in them doing that anyway considering they managed to brick a Series S just from removing the SSD to test out in a PS5 lol.

[--Onilink--]

@StoneyYoshi

Yes a heatsink is supposed to absorb heat from the CPU, but if its running hotter, then its going to absorb less heat and the component will start running hotter.

Thats why you dissipate the heat from the heatsink with a fan, and if a fan is being more efficient and pushing more air through the heatsink, then the heatsink would run cooler, not hotter.
I dont understand why people keep saying pushing more air out of the system will somehow mean a hotter exhaust, more air is better, which leads to cooler components which in turn leads to a cooler exhaust

[StoneyYoshi]

"I don't understand why people keep saying pushing more air out of the system will somehow mean a hotter exhaust, more air is better, which leads to cooler components which in turn leads to a cooler exhaust"

Because it makes sense. Regardless of how efficient your heatsink, fans, or even AIO in a PC, you are still extracting the same amount of heat that the component is producing. I work in the IT industry and had to learn this stuff but you probably don't care about that cause I'm just some guy on the internet. In the end... the only temp that truly matters is what the temp of the component its-self is. plain and simple.

Cooler exhaust does not mean cooler components. More than likely it means the heat is being trapped inside due to improper airflow. Which can explain how having a smaller heatsink is allowing more of that heat to escape, therefore showing a higher temp at the exhaust.

[--Onilink--]

@StoneyYoshi

No it doesnt make sense, you are talking like the majority of the heat coming of the console is just suspended in the air , and not the actual heatsink transferring the heat from the CPU over its surface area and then the air/fans cooling the heatsink.

Better airflow will mean lower temperature in the heatsink which allows it to cool the CPU even more. A cooler heatsink would then mean a cooler exhaust, because that is literally what is being cooled by the air, the heatsink.

Having a much smaller heatsink (with less conductive material) means that the heat cannot spread out over as large an area as before, meaning that any given part of the heatsink is probably running a bit hotter than before, which MIGHT mean that its not cooling the component itself as efficiently either.

If you have minimal airflow and exhaust on the system, that tiny amount of exhaust would be really really high because you cant cool the heatsink properly and its running really high (therefore cant transfer enough heat out of the cpu, so that will also heat up).
If you are suddenly able to push out MORE air, then the temperatures inside will DECREASE, not increase, and if the temperatures inside decrease, your exhaust should be cooler as well, not hotter

And I also work in the IT industry, for many years now, been around computers for quite a while, none of this is particularly new

[DJStotty]

@Onilink

I never said the heatsink was not warmer, i said the components, meaning CPU/GPU/SSD etc are operating at the same thermal range, whatever that may be inside the console.

The heatsink/pipes and other components of the cooling system, will be more efficient in extracting the heat generated by the components, resulting in the exhaust/hsink/pipes being warmer.

And "illusion" means something that is not really there, in other words, and put it as simply as i can :-

The new PS5 is the same as the old PS5, but with an improved cooling system.

[Duke19]

I mean, the machine clearly had significantly smaller heatsinks than the original unit in the teardown video. As someone who pushes their current PS4 for hours on end, throttling and heat COULD definitely be an issue down the line.

Im sure Sony did appropriate testing, but just because they wanted to save cost and weight, doesn't mean this is a "consumer friendly" revision. If they were both readily available, I would absolutely buy the original since heat is the enemy of all electronics

[FlameWater]

So just wait for a PS5 Pro

[DJStotty]

Next year that announcement, 2023 launch. I kid i kid....

There will be an announcement in the next 2 or 3 years, but these will simply be SSD increases etc, but CPU/GPU will remain the same.

[OptimusDK]

OMFG you fanboys are realy something. Just relax. There is no argument that a smaller heatsink is creating more heat at the CPU / GPU - but again if it matters is another point. We dont know yet. But you can ask NEXUS who did the most comprehensive heat testing if he felt that there was much to play with here. Awaiting his responst the most.

[DJStotty]

The components are not getting warmer, the design is just expelling the heat from the console quicker.

But even if it was the case, i seriously doubt this will cause any performance/overheating issues, so expect this subject to be closed by the end of the week.

[StoneyYoshi]

Im giving you an agree point Stotty. IDK why you aren't getting any. You are one of the few making the most sense here.

[DJStotty]

Just my name lol.

[KillBill]

"Yes, performance on the new model should be tested, but I find it extremely unlikely that the new PS5 will perform any differently even if it were hotter than the old one." - when it all boils down at the end he simply states if it is hotter then it won't matter. He said nothing that changes the story in the least. He keeps saying we still need to test the heat (which he didn't) and that Sony hasn't gotten back with him. The only contention that was presented was the heat sink is not as good as it used to be. And everything is pushing to that still being correct.

[navi87]

@Eonjay

The heat of the cpu is dependant on the cooling solution. If you remove the heatsink entirely, would the cpu still produce the same level of heat? No, it would keep getting hotter until it thermal throttles and/or eventually shutdowns to protect itself.

So why anyone think that the heat levels of the CPU would stay the same even though the cooling solution has been nerfed...I have no idea. *facepalms*

[StoneyYoshi]

Heres the thing... There are still 6 copper heatpipes that look to be the same length meaning the copper plate against the CPU is still there. Thats all the copper you truly need for efficient cooling. What we see here is mainly less fins and using aluminum where copper isn't really necessary. Having the smaller heatsink is allowing more efficient airflow to pull out that heat on top of having a more efficient fan not needing to work as hard to push out the heat allowing the efficiency to be more or less the same as the original model.

You cant say it was "nerfed" just due to the reduction in size and materials. 🤦🏻‍♂️ Wait for a proper analysis from Gamers Nexus before saying it was nerfed.

[navi87]

Im not saying the cooling isnt efficient enough for the CPU, its still adequate for its purpose (which is to prevent it from thermal throttling). But the people who say the CPU is running cooler because there is being more heat being expelled doesnt add up for me.

Yeah im curious what Gamer Nexus will find out too, time will tell! :D

[DJStotty]

@Navi87

No one is saying the CPU is running cooler, just still within range, the heat generated will be the same, it is just being transferred, and extracted better than before.

[DJStotty]

@Navi87

There is no static temperature of a component, you have a thermal range, this will increase/decrease depending on load. Having a smaller heatsink, does not necessarily equal a hotter CPU, if the heat is transferred quicker by an amended cooling solution, the CPU may actually have a lower thermal signature, whilst the heat extracted will be warmer.

No one thinks heat levels of CPU's stay the same, regardless of cooling solution, other than people that do not know how the 2 work.

"If you remove the heatsink entirely, would the cpu still produce the same level of heat?"

Yes, the amount of heat produced will be the same, but if there is no transfer medium to remove that heat, then the temperature of the CPU will increase, but a CPU does not "produce" more heat if there is no heatsink, it just retains the heat.

Now if you overclock a CPU, then you produce more heat, increasing the risk of processor damage.

[navi87]

Fair enough, I did word that incorrectly. The CPU wouldnt produce more heat but would run at a higher temp as the heat is not being transferred away. My bad. But you do seem to be focussed on knit picking on this point, you havent really explained why I am wrong as a whole.

So in your example of the changing variable with the CPU being overvolted, that would have an impact on the heat, of course. A smaller heatsink would also impact the overall running temp of the CPU too, would it not? There are still the same amount of heatpipes being used, so heat is still being transferred at the same rate away from the CPU to the heatsink. With a smaller surface area of the heatsink, it cant really dissipate the heat faster, can it? Theyre kinda creating "bottle neck" if you will.

"if the heat is transferred quicker by an amended cooling solution"
So what is it with the redesign that indicates that the heat will be transferred away quicker? That is what is stumping me to be honest. You would have to add to the cooling, not remove, to improve performance. Unless they have engineered some new form of heatpipes that work better?

One thing did just occour to me though, they might play around with the fan settings regarding the speed and when it kicks in and for how long. I dont think anyone has mentioned that so far. They could offset the difference with a more aggressive fan control scheme.