290°

Steam's Two-Hour Refund Policy Forces Horror Developer Into 'Indefinite' Absence

Summer of 58, released last month, has been well-reviewed on Steam, with an overall “Very Positive” rating and loads of fans leaving nice comments, giving particular praise to its atmosphere and jump scares. But as a short experience—it can be completed in around 90 minutes—that’s left the game vulnerable to Steam’s blanket two-hour refund policy.

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Community972d ago
porkChop972d ago

This is the problem with Steam's refund policy. Personally, I think it should be based on how far you got in the game. Valve can see that someone has completed a game, they can also see the achievements a player has unlocked. If a player completes a game, or gets more than halfway through, they should not be allowed to refund it.

A lot of the smaller, cheap indie games can be completed in less than two hours. The refund policy cripples them. This developer didn't even make enough money to fund their next game, because people refunded after giving positive reviews. That's fucked up.

lovemetal626972d ago

You're either a console gamer or a complete idiot.

Kosic972d ago

Explain? Because I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

Bladesfist972d ago

I'm not sure if this is what lovemetal saw but a stereotype definitely exists of console gamers advocating for their console manufacturers interests against their own interests and another stereotype exists of PC Gamers bitching and moaning at every little thing a developer / publisher does that goes against their interests.

There is some truth to it, a lot of things that are okay in the console space wouldn't fly for PC Gamers, paying for online for example.

Flakegriffin971d ago

Well, we learned which one you are ;)

frostypants971d ago (Edited 971d ago )

Why is OP an idiot? Because you wouldn't be able to behave like an entitled leech?

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Vits972d ago

Refunds are processed automatically. So it is impossible to use a metric like "completion" to issue them. As it would cripple bigger games and make users vulnerable to shady developers with short games. Just think about it. A game like Civilization can take literally hundreds of hours to get to the "half". And a shady developer may put a "half complete flag" of their game in the first 5 minutes.

The only real solution for a game like this. Is to just not sell on Steam (or GOG, EGS and Origin as they have similar refund policies). Or just to paddle it with more content to make pass that 2h threshold.

Neonridr971d ago

if the game knows how long you've played they can also know if you "completed" it or not.

0hMyGandhi971d ago

@Vits
That is the exception to the rule. I'd imagine most developers wouldn't implement such tricks.
You make it sound like the only "real" thing to do is to just....lie down and take it, and accept the 2 hour threshold as some wonderfully tried and tested metric.

Vits971d ago

@Neonridr

Is not a issue with the system finding out if you completed the game or not. Is the definition of completed that don't fit all games the same way.

@AlexMuncatchy

But that is not the exception to the rule. There a lot of PC games that would have the exactly same issue. The whole catalog from Paradox and Amplitude Studios for example by their own nature wouldn't work with the idea of "completion". Not alone at least.

I do agree that the 2 hours is not the best policy around though. As GOG's 30 days no question asked method is far better to me as a user. And if Steam where to implement something like that. They would have my complete support.

Bobertt972d ago (Edited 972d ago )

They can't do it based on progression because every game is different. 2 hours is nothing in an RPG and the policy works great fro most full length games. If anything they should just make a new category where the developer specify it's under 2 hours when trying to get it on the steam store and those games receive a shorter return time.

porkChop971d ago

"specify it's under 2 hours when trying to get it on the steam store and those games receive a shorter return time."

That could work, and I'd be fine with that. Something needs to be done because the current system is too easy to exploit.

Neonridr971d ago

100%, if you complete the game you shouldn't be able to refund it.

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GoodGuy09972d ago

Ooftah. If its only 90 mins then make it free and ask for donations. There are many other games that last much longer where that refund policy is greatly justified.

Christopher971d ago

Capitalism at its finest. If we don't want to pay for it, give it to us for free and then ask for donations from people because most of us definitely don't want to pay for it but want others to fund it so we can enjoy it.

Oschino1907971d ago

Whoa there, you're gonna pull a muscle trying to stretch that far to blame this on Capitalism.

Capitalism - "Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society. The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit."

Christopher971d ago

Gives me the definition of capitalism while I'm responding to someone in a capitalistic market trying to tell a person selling a good on how they shouldn't make money off it but through donations and not sales.

This is like those posts of people quoting how socialism destroys stuff while showing that same stuff destroyed in a capitalist nation. I think you don't understand what capitalism has turned into here.

Chevalier971d ago

That's like saying work for free our start up company hasn't made a profit yet. How would donations keep food on the people working for you? Good thing you don't run a studio because it's guaranteed you'd be out of business by your 1st release

Rachel_Alucard972d ago (Edited 972d ago )

I just glanced through all 322 reviews. She's exaggerating heavily here, about 4 out of 322 of them are marked with product refunded and only a single one was a positive review. Beyond that, the vast majority were over the 2 hour limit or just under it. According to the dev herself, she states that the developer themself has their own report on refunds and she claims that 70% said the game is short, passed and returned the game. Which seems off to me because it is statistically impossible with the info presented and considering the game's highest peak was 93 players. Even if there were 6000 players it is statistically impossible for 70% of them to refund it unless it was some organized key reselling by scammers like what happened with Division 2 on EGS. Regardless, the issue here is that these people who refunded it, most likely never would have bought it if there was no such refund system in place. This whole thing comes off as some attempt to start clout to snowball at Steam. Already I see 3 threads on the discussion area of the game on Steam just dogpiling Valve or the customerbase. This is not the first time this has happened nor will it be the last time and it's not uncommon especially if you glance at some of these indie devs twitter accounts.

One interesting piece of info I noticed is a week ago, the game had about 50K+ twitch viewers watching streamers play the game, but it dropped off and it never translated into actual sales. I don't know if that has something to do with this but it's convenient timing.

Neonridr971d ago

no doubt people can see let's plays of these types of games and basically feel like they've played the game by watching it.

Rachel_Alucard971d ago

That's one thing too. Walking simulators are essentially beaten by watching someone else play them, especially if its linear and gives off no different experience from player to player. No different from touring through hogwarts on the Harry potter DVDs.

MocBistro972d ago

Stop making stupid indie games then.

971d ago
Christopher971d ago

They are. Did you not read the tweet?

Also, time equates to quality now? Interesting.

Soldierone971d ago

Depends on price. If this game cost any more than maybe 30 dollars I'd want more than 90 minutes. A film is normally 1 to 2 hours and costs only 15.

Christopher971d ago

***Depends on price. If this game cost any more than maybe 30 dollars I'd want more than 90 minutes. A film is normally 1 to 2 hours and costs only 15.***

His game was $10.

BrockEmSockEm972d ago

Jeez, AND it's on sale currently. AND whatever the dev makes is minus 30% to Steam. I've started the developer a GoFundMe and will try to contact them directly through their twitter if it gets any donations.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/...

Angelin972d ago (Edited 972d ago )

Hmm, what can the developer do with only 1000$?
Don’t get me wrong, the gesture us nice but depending on location, cost of living, etc, 1000$ are covering one month of expenses.

Edit: i see the developer is located in Russia, so maybe 1,5 - 2 months of expenses.

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250°

Microsoft Seemingly Closes Bethesda France

As part of its plans to cut 1,900 jobs, Microsoft has reportedly shut down operations at Bethesda France, letting go roughly 15 people

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Hereandthere11h ago

Microsoft should have left them stay 3rd party

GamerRN9h ago

If they are let go, they can be whatever they want. They ARE 3rd party now... 🤦

Barlos6h ago

Yeah, they're also jobless.

peppeaccardo1h ago

"MIcrosoft leaves Bethesda do what they know how to do best" ... close! Oh the irony ....
(Citation from a week old article)

PassNextquestion11h ago(Edited 11h ago)

Bethesda France was made up of roughly 15 people... they couldn't of being doing much

Bethesda France mainly did publishing and marketing within the region

blacktiger9h ago

that's a shame for you to say that, i'm sure Elite loves hearing what you just said.

Profchaos11h ago(Edited 11h ago)

Bethesda France focused on publishing and marketing in the region. And 15 people lost their jobs as part of the closure.

I wonder if this is part of Microsoft's strategy to abandoned physical media or possibly gamepass advertising makes their roles redundant you don't need to market a game as hard when the majority of players get the game as part of a sub which already promoted upcoming games

Tacoboto11h ago

It's France too, there's a high likelihood only 1-2 people on the team even had an Xbox.

Profchaos10h ago

Possibly guven all the leaks we know the Xbox brand is really struggling in the region.

Yi-Long7h ago

Well, if your consoles and games are barely found in any stores any more, of course you're gonna struggle finding consumers ...

XiNatsuDragnel10h ago

Tbh Microsoft I think Bethesda being 3rd party same with Activision would probably more competitive than thus scenario imo

Profchaos8h ago(Edited 8h ago)

I think it would have been better for all parties really especially gamers

TheColbertinator9h ago

The recently purchased Activision French offices might take over all the licensing and marketing for Microsoft in France from now on.

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70°

I’m Glad Atlus & SE Changed Dates To Avoid Competing With Shadow Of The Erdtree

Saad from eXputer: "I'm glad I don't have to choose between Square Enix, Atlus, and FromSoftware due to bad release windows and Shadow of the Erdtree."

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Community14h ago
H91d 5h ago

More intelligent than guerilla games

raWfodog11h ago(Edited 11h ago)

Atlus is releasing their game one week before Erdtree, SE is releasing theirs one week after.

HZD released four days before Zelda, HFW released one week before Elden Ring.

It seems to me like they are still releasing their games too close to Erdtree.

120°

Sony Could Increase Your Game's Difficulty If It Sees You Complain About It

Sony has recently published a new patent that wants to dynamically handle the games' difficulty and gameplay based on the player's emotions.

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Community14h ago
jznrpg12h ago

This is something I might use. Sometimes I play some good games but they don’t have difficulty option and are a little too easy.

Profchaos12h ago

Souls games will be like that players struggling make it harder

PassNextquestion11h ago(Edited 11h ago)

I think if used correctly it could work well

jambola7h ago

cool idea
cool idea for horror games especially
the way it's explained here sounds like it could never be forced hopefully, so that's ok with me

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