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Did Sony Lie about SSD? PS3 could run PS5 Ratchet & Clank Gameplay

Jon Burton "In this episode of Coding Secrets I look at how the Rift Gameplay in Ratchet & Clank can be achieved on much older hardware with no SSD. Don't agree?"

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Jin_Sakai266d ago (Edited 266d ago )

But at what level? Even if it’s possible it wouldn’t be anywhere near the extent of the PS5 levels.

Babadook7265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

Exactly.

'Store both alternate dimensions in RAM at 100th the quality? See it works! '

No. It doesn't. You need a fast SSD for this fidelity. PS3 (and PS4) LODs would be trash.

264d ago
bouzebbal264d ago (Edited 264d ago )

There is a lot of PR into that and ps5 is optimized to take advantage of SSD… but ps3 is also a very special piece of tech that still remains a mystery today..

abstractel264d ago

The question should really be "Can you run Ratchet and Clank PS4 (2016) but also add in switching between levels within a second?". The answer is no, so there's no lie. On top of all that, Insomniac also made a game that looks better than every other console game out there, even including performance demanding tech like raytracing.

I imagine this clever guy knows this but figured it'd be an awesome clickbait video.

Eonjay264d ago

There are two separate uses in this game being discussed.

The first are the pocket dimensions. They are standard viewport hacks as described by Insomniac in its interview with Digital Foundry. This technique is quite common and Insomniac in no way asserted that it was because of the SSD. They were very clear.

The second are full dimension teleporting. These are not possible on the PS3 or PS4. These are instances where an entire level is loaded into memory from SSD in what is practically an instant. These are not persistent in memory. They are actually loaded on the fly, quite literally. There is no way the older consoles could stream this amount of data so quickly. The PS4 drive could achieve like 100 MB/s. With Compression on PS5 this reaches 9GB/s This is a gigantic jump gen on gen. Imagine if there was a similar 50x jump to the GPU? Thats the kind of advantage PS5 SSD has over PS4 HDD.

264d ago
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Outside_ofthe_Box265d ago

Isn't saying that the PS3 could run Rachet as is, more disingenuous then saying the SSD makes it only possible on PS5?

FYI companies say this all time. "Such and such is only possible on ________ console" When in reality you could always scale stuff back to make it possible. Last of Us II for example could run on PS3 if you scale back quality, but I don't think anyone would take issue with Sony saying it's only possible on PS4 hardware, besides Jon Burton maybe.

Lexreborn2264d ago

If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible.
The last of us 1 remastered on PS4 is not possible on ps3. PS3 could only output 720p 30. PS4 could do 1080p 60 and pro did 4K none of which is possible on PS3.

Since PS3 and ps4 days devs have been saying the limits of the devices stop them from innovative ideas. Rocksteady wanted the bat mobile in Arkham city. It wasn’t possible on 360 and PS3.

But it was fully realized on PS4 and Xbone. Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it.

Outside_ofthe_Box264d ago (Edited 264d ago )

"Rift apart would have to be butchered to make it work on PS3 that’s not the same game if you have to butcher it."

Which is my point. It's ironic that this guy Burton is accusing Sony of "lying" while saying that Rift Apart can run on PS3 which in itself is a "lie."

"If you are scaling back to run on something and cutting content/level design to make it work. It’s not possible."

I agree with that and should have made it more clear. I'm saying that if you're gonna say that game can run on old hardware if you cut back "such and such" or do something differently to achieve similar yet inferior effect then you can say that about any game. Was using Last of Us as an example in saying Burton (or any one of us) wouldn't dare say that Last of Us II is possible on PS3, yet he said it here for Rift Apart which is silly.

Kosic264d ago (Edited 264d ago )

It's the same with the Nintendo switch to get games to run on that you get a lower resolution/graphic setting version of the game.

And tbh it is the same game. Not the same experience. Its once you cut content out that's where the game is not the same.

The game is the puzzles, the controls, the levels. A game isn't the graphic level.
We grew up not caring about graphics because you could experience a game with low quality graphics and be amazing.
Where as you could have a rubbish/bare bones game that looks great.

JackBNimble264d ago

One thing I do know is R&C could run on current gen consoles . This magic ssd was either a flat out lie or extremely exaggerated and misleading.

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badz149264d ago

Is this guy Phil Spencer? Talk is cheap!

Tapani264d ago

This whole video is completely BS. The amount of data in the pipeline is multiple times larger than what it was in PS3 era, it is tenfold or hundred fold, depending on the game.

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265d ago Replies(3)
neutralgamer1992265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

But is that really a dog at next generation consoles or ssd? Because PS3 was quite powerful for it's time. Jak and Dexter didn't have load screens and that was on PS2. I am ready for days of no load screens. When I played HZD fast travel took over a minute to load and that's one of my favorites games of all time

Christopher265d ago

To say "the exact same thing" is massively disingenuous here.

Miles Morales is on PS4, but those instant reloads and whatnot are not on there at all. Both are loading environments, but why can't they load that environment as quickly and seamlessly as you can on PS5? Obviously there *something* there that makes it possible.

R&Ccan absolutely run on PS4/PS3, but those on rail scenes to control loading would be much longer as would those scenes where it's not on rails would suddenly have loading screens or loading animations/scenes.

Sciurus_vulgaris266d ago

There is a level in Titanfall 2 named Effect and Cause. The previously mentioned level allows players to nearly instantly switch between two different variants of the same map due to rapid time travel. When switching time periods, enemies and the overall environment change. Titanfall 2 was released last gen for the XB1 and PS4.

I’m not a game developer. I don’t think it is not unreasonable to state that Rift Apart maybe technically possible on the PS4 with increased loading and decreased visuals. However, the smooth,rapid, essentially loading free transitions between world and dimensions of an integral feature of Rift Apart.

LordoftheCritics265d ago

That was a very cool lvl in Titanfall 2. The entire campaign was slick.

Sciurus_vulgaris265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

Titanfall 2 reminded me of Half-Life 2, every level was unique.

VersusDMC265d ago

I haven't played Ratchet yet so do you Rift into totally different environments?
I've seen videos where the scenery changes from city to jungle in seconds.

Because in Titanfall 2(that I've beaten) the level that is brought up all the time is just a cosmetic change to the same environment. Facility in the present ruined but still just the same environment and the Past where the same environment is cleaner. They do the same in dead space with hallucinations when the same room will all of a sudden have a bunch of extra assets appear out of nowhere but it is just the same room.

I don't think we can call it the same thing.

PS. Titanfall 2 Campain is totally underrated and super cheap. Pick it up.

eaze2013265d ago

Yep, exactly this! As excellent as that level and the whole campaign was, it was much less resource-intensive than loading in brand new environments

Bathyj265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

You can not only step through a portal into a totally new environment and back again, you can stand there and see that environment before you step into it and even walk around the portal behind it while remaining in the original environment and see there nothing on the back of the portal, meaning that yes it is not some cheap trick where it's essentially the same environment already loaded with a different aesthetic. It really is loading in a completely new level in an instant.

JustTheFax265d ago

The only places where you go into totally different environments is the on rails level that this video shows. Otherwise the portals just zoom you around the level, and sometimes to a bonus collectable level.

Teflon02265d ago

Yeah in Ratchet, there's a world that you hit a crystal and it instantly changed the world. While it's the same world. It's layout is completely changed and it's loading an entirely different stage. There's a big difference between it and little tricks like changing textures and loading 2 areas at once in lower poly counts and shifting a character between them. There's big limitations to tricks vs legit doing it

Fluke_Skywalker265d ago

@JustTheFax That's not true at all, there are pocket dimensions in every level where you walk through portals into completely different worlds that ar just instantly there. Also as @Teflon says there are levels where you smack a crystal and the whole world changes in a flash instantly.

KillBill264d ago

If you read on what devs commented on Ratchet & Clank they commented on many of the assets already being present as well use of simple skydomes. Watch the video and you will understand that the so called "completely different environment" really aren't what you imagine them to be.

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yeahokwhatever264d ago

other games have done the dual times in 1 area. what makes that different is that you're juggling some of the assets, not entirely different open world maps.

darthv72266d ago

It could have certainly been on the PS4 (with rifts) but im not so sure about the PS3. Graphically sure, given how good Crack in time is but the fast loading of the rifts could have posed a problem.

I_am_Batman265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

In principle it would've been easier to do something similar on PS3 than PS4 (at much lower asset quality/density of course). The reason is that the ratio between mass storage bandwidth and memory was more favourable on the PS3, especially when a large portion of the game's data was installed on the HDD. The PS4 had a really bad ratio which lead to a lot of memory being wasted because assets would have to be preloaded very early. To make this work devs had to implement effective ways to predict what data will be needed.

The PS5 pretty much flipped that ratio on it's head. It takes a while for game engines to catch up to the paradim shift. As we move away from the cross-gen window I expect to see the asset streaming bandwidth being utilized more freely without relying on scripted set pieces so much.

Kavorklestein265d ago

No paradigm shifted. It's just loading stuff as you approach the object it knows you will inevitably SMACK because obviously you will. It's a feature made more possible with fast SSD speeds but it's not revolutionary.
It is, however, neat.

I_am_Batman265d ago (Edited 265d ago )

@Kavorklestein: The shifting paradign is the development environment. Ratchet & Clank is built with an early and evolving toolkit which has it's roots in the last generation. Going from 2 minutes to fill the entire memory on PS4 to just over 2 seconds on PS5 requires a complete makeover of the asset streaming pipeline. It'll take time until devs can fully unlock and utilize the PS5's potential. As cool as Ratchet & Clank is (and it is pretty cool), we haven't seen nothing yet.

ecchiless266d ago

that guy have to delete and reupload his video.... check the first comment on the video to know why. The guy seems to have a beef with imsoniac... maybe cause they dont hire him xD

Christopher264d ago (Edited 264d ago )

If people don't know what this is talking about, he deleted a whole portion of the video that goes against his whole argument. That being about the crystal whacking to change environments which weren't explained by any of his other items. It was instantaneous and loaded whole new environments. But he removed it to make his argument stronger for the parts he wanted and ignored the parts where it didn't fit.

Very disingenuous presentation of arguments when I found out about this. Very Anita Sarkeesian of him.

ecchiless264d ago

yea the guy is pathetic, a salty dev for sure, variant from youtube got him in the lie.
An example from Youtube comment section:
VariantAEC

What is being done cannot be done without those smart optimizations he mentioned which is very different from what is being done here. What he thinks is level streaming just isn't and he does (right before ending the video admit that) so he actually is the one who is lying here.
This game would not run as well without ultrafast I/O.

VariantAEC258d ago

@ecchiless
Thanks, it's nice to know some people read my comments and understand them.

What annoyed me most about his video is that he does know what he's talking about but chooses to deliberately claim that the ultrafast switching to two stages would be possible as is on much slower hardware regardless.
Jak III's opening cinematic shows us that couldn't happen; it would take too long.