Microsoft Chief executive officer Satya Nadella and chief financial officer Amy Hood talked about the Xbox business.
As long as they're running faster than themselves, everything is okay? "Game pass is growing rapidly and it’s transforming how people discover, connect, and play games. Subscribers play approximately 40% more games and spend 50% more than non-members." Meaningless figures without context. But... "Xbox content and services revenue growth y/y is down 4%" I'm not sure putting these two next to each other is saying what they want it to say.
Lot of unhappy people are going to be out there today...
Microsoft needs to do better. We can't afford just to see them focus on GamePass without heavily supporting and encouraging third-party games outside of that ecosystem or detracting from it by offering something that encourages people to not buy third-party games but instead rely on just a subscription model that clearly doesn't include many third-party titles.
I think they are up 11% all around though. That’s all that matters for now. At a certain point those other factors won’t sustain you but right now it’s not a loss, it’s an investment. They spent a shit ton of money and gamepass is a new concept. We don’t know what their long term is and if it’s sustainable but we’re not at the stage where these new studios are releasing shit like clockwork either. 4% loss in games and services is just a piece of the short term that is supported in other ways. To be honest I would guess way higher than that considering they give out their games on day one for gamepass subs. Only 4% loss? I think that’s some wild balance lol.
Considering they saw larger losses in 2019 and 2020 prior to new console releases, an overall 11% growth from those lower points and with a new generation of hardware isn't that great. I think people who see Game Pass as the "future" might see this as good news, but I see it as a sign of how Game Pass is already greatly affecting the ecosystem and how that might result in market focus changes away from that in response, especially with more cloud gaming (non-subscription) options and valve going into the console market. Edit: also, the reports showed continual declining revenue growth to the point it is a loss now for the last year entirely even with the new generation *and* higher gaming activity due to COVID-19. I think that speaks pretty well for long term look at how their ecosystem is evolving.
Right, people are cherry picking one line as a negative without reading or, even understanding financial reports. Let's be honest 99% of people in here don't know how to read a P&L. I'll translate. MS gaming business is killing it. GamePass will continue to grow and drive revenue. 3rd party titles are all still coming to Xbox too.
@Christopher Affecting the ecosystem? What’s affecting the ecosystem is Covid and the delayed amount of 3rd party games being released. All gamepass has done for me is make gaming affordable, as a student I am able to always be playing something new and I’ve actually invested in different games DLC, games which I would never of even played! So from people who actually value their money and don’t want to spend £70 on one new game every 6 months (cos that’s all I’d be able to afford) i really hope gamepass succeeds (for both devs and consumers)
"spend 50% more than non-members" Yea, when they have to spend $120 - $180 just for the service of course there is more spending from members, on the console with less spenders in general.
A loss in revenue GROWTH is not a loss. It just means their revenue is growing 4% less than it was last year. I think you misunderstood what they're saying. This is likely due to console availability and less people subscribing to Gamepass versus the save period last year. I think GP subscriptions will pick up again in the coming months when all of the 1st party stuff comes out. Then that growth revenue will continue to increase. Microsoft is doing great overall, and this is before the big 1st party games release!
"As long as they're running faster than themselves, everything is okay?" Where you realistic expecting anything different? They need to do better for it´s community first and foremost.
Key word being revenue GROWTH. Revenue was still up but now growing as fast which happened to every single gaming company during the pandemic. Pretty simple to see they mean it didn't quite grow as much during this year when more people got back outside as opposed to last year during the pandemic beginning. Real difficult stuff here Christopher. Glad you couldn't figure it out on your own.
You just said exactly what I did. Are people not understanding what I'm saying? I didn't say revenue loss, but a steady decline in revenue growth that it is starting to result in revenue growth loss. This is on top of revenue growth loss in 2019 and 2020, btw.
Agreed GamePass is a great service but its hurting the brands growth as seen from these figures overall. They need to be investing in third party relations and new IP not just some subscription service. being up 11% from XB1 is really not that impressive given that last gen was troublesome for them to say the least. I really like the XSX and the improvements to the brand but I feel they are getting lost in the weeds on this.
"They need to be investing in third party relations and new IP not just some subscription service." Agreed. If they keep the same strategy this whole gen I feel that it could really hurt 3rd party because theres this mentality of "ill wait for it to come to game pass" I've seen plenty of people say accross the internet and IRL which can drastically hurt initial 3rd party multiplat sales on their platforms. I don't think we will never see every game developed appear on GamePass thus causing this issue in the industry.
A lot of new services end up hurting the older services, for better or for worse , cd hurt the vinyl , dvd hurt the video , now streaming is hurting dvd .. a lot of companies were slow to adopt to online sales and ended up closing down because of it , my point being, companies have to adapt to the current climate .
The majority of gamespass is third party though, I’m really not sure what you are trying to get at. Third party games have seen delays so I’d expect that revenue to be down.
"Meaningless figures without context." The irony... Stop comparing the insane covid numbers to the present. You're not going to accurately accomplish... whatever it is you're trying too hard to do here.
Don't forget about the subscriber that don't pay month to month. I wait until there's a game I'm interested in.
Revenue growth is down because stay-at-home orders are done. So people are spending less on gaming. But of the people that *are* still spending, GP subs are spending 50% more. That isn't giving the negative impression you're implying it does. Gaming revenue was way up last year because everyone had to stay home. Everyone knew that revenue growth would go down this year. It was never going to stay the same or increase with people going back to work. I don't know why you're making such a big deal out of something that's affecting the entire industry, not just Xbox.
You try too hard bruh...
Are they counting all the series s on shelves? (Serious question, no fb bs)
Most companies do it like that. They are “sold” as in a retailer bought them in anticipation of them being sold to a consumer. They don’t order more if they have an abundance, but in most cases this is considered a sale since Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo don’t deal with buy direct purchase from consumers unless it’s made from their site or own store . They will eventually make it into consumers hands. Think about farmers. Unless you see them setting up a shop and selling it from their place, you likely buy it from a grocery like Walmart, ect. That money goes tolthe grocery as They paid the farmer for those produce in order for them to sell them. Usually that comes at a cheaper price than what’s marked at those stores. But regardless, the farmer makes their sale to the grocery and that’s where it ends for them. Of course there’s other things like is it doing well, ect
I do like the analogy, I won't lie, and I understand all that.... But its sold in numbers vs estimates of previous sold in numbers? What's the point? Why are they using estimates of their older gens?, they would have the sold through numbers for their older gens surely? Just seems a bit disingenuous to compare them that way🤷♂️ I am happy its doing well, I'll be a series x owner by Christmas for forza let alone the other first party stuff coming.
They don't count them, it's called Sold Through
I'm aware of what sold in and sold through mean, all these users saying that's how all companies report or they don't have access to sold through numbers...., didn't they used to report sold through too? Sony still report sold through at times too🤷♂️ https://www.businesswire.co...
That's literally how selling products works. Similarly, Sony will be counting all of these as units sold: https://i.imgur.com/trSKsOA... Nintendo, Apple, Google etc will all be doing the same too.
I can link you to the series s's I talk about, can you link me to those ps5s?
There is a link in my post, click it.
So you can't link me to any in stock ps5s then? None that are purchasable right now?Just a random picture? I can link you to series s systems all over Europe that you can buy right now... not so similar.
Took 2 seconds on Google: https://www.walmart.com.mx/... In stock and available to ship immediately or pickup. Lesson of the day: Stock and demand varies by region. Something being in stock somewhere in the world means nothing. I am not pretending PS5 isn't in demand - it is, but that doesn't mean it'll be sold out everywhere. Same for Xbox, same for Switch. People will also have different experiences - I managed to get a PS5 easily at launch, and have since gotten a 2nd for a friend, but have yet to find an XSX to buy.
PS5s haven't been sold in stores since the first month or so. It's all online right now. That Instanbul airport is likely from buying and reselling. But, even then, yeah, they would be included. My understanding is it is calculated on stock sold, not sell-through?
@Christopher I didn't take that picture, but it's apparently a store in Turkey (despite looking like a BestBuy) called D&R Electronics who is doing in-store sales (against Sony's wishes I guess). There's other reports about the same store: https://www.reddit.com/r/pl... Still, I don't recommend flying to Europe to buy any games console... might as well pay scalper prices at that point. And yeah, I don't believe manufacturers count sell-through since it's harder to track and puts burden on the retailer. Plus at the end of the day, at the point where the console transfers from Sony/MS to Walmart etc, Sony/MS have been paid.
Isn't that just a marked up private seller like this series x from the US walmart? https://www.walmart.com/ip/... That still doesn't take away from the fact that the series s is readily available all over the world, at retail price, or that ms are comparing weird numbers🤷♂️
@Chris I think NPD tracks sell through since they work directly with retailers. Least that’s always been my understanding.
@IRetroUK Nope. The one you linked has 'Sold & shipped byalldayzip.com', the one I linked has 'Sold by Walmart'. Also 13,999 is the MSRP of the PS5 in MX: https://www.amazon.com.mx/C... https://www.globalproductpr... It's also in stock at Amazon via the above link at MSRP. So how are MS comparing weird numbers? Every hardware manufacturer is counting how many units they sell to retail (the point where they get paid), not how many units sell-through.
Ok cool, you found some ps5s for sale, that'll teach me.... But that don't change the fact that the series s is still readily available🤷♂️, your trying to equate the sparse availability of the ps5 to the readily availability of the series s while using regions as some sort of defense for the s being available so widely is laughable, the ps5 being in stock or not doesn't actually change that. There's are massive amounts more of series s sitting on shelves than ps5s🤷♂️ They are comparing shipped numbers with estimated shipped numbers of previous gens, how's that not weird?
"They are comparing shipped numbers with estimated shipped numbers of previous gens, how's that not weird?" What do you think Sony and Nintendo do? There's Series S's sitting on shelves and there are PS5's sitting on shelves. Unless we actually know how many, it means nothing. Plus for any PS5 or XSS sitting on a shelf, Sony and MS have already been paid. The fact remains that Xbox and MS are quite clearly healthy and doing well based on the earnings results, which is great for the industry and for consumers. No amount of 'what ifs' will change that.
They shouldn't need to use estimated numbers for their old systems, they should have the sale through data for those, I've never heard a console manufacture say we sold more and faster than our last consoles estimates...ever🤷♂️ I've heard them say they have shipped more consoles than they shipped the last, but not estimates. Again, there are series s available in store all over the place, the same can't be said for the ps5, no matter how much you try to compare the two as like for like they are not, and you know it. Instead of twisting and turning in defense of your precious xbox you could have just answered yes to my original post🤷♂️ As I said in another post, I'm glad they are doing well, I will have a series x in time for forza, that still don't take away from my points.
@IRetrouk It is irrelevant how many unsold X/S in retailer's shelve related to MS's P&L. Those are the problem of retailers. Unless we can have photo from the warehouse from the manufacturer, the unit un-sold in retailer no-longer related to MS.
He owned me buy twisting and turning and trying to compare the few ps5s on shelves to the massive amounts of series s lol he didn't own shit, just like yourself🤦♂️🤣 @glen, right so because unsold consoles aren't in ms hands that means we can't ask questions and discuss?.. sounds like cap to me🤷♂️
They are shipped numbers, as in shipped to retailers and warehouses. Sony usually does the same but since playstation is completely out of stock anywhere, their sold. I've seen dozens of times Xbox series S and sometimes X consoles on shelves. I've never seen a ps5 box but the one I have in my closet.
I just don't get why they are comparing sold in with estimates of sold in for their older gens, dont really make sense to me, surley they have the sold through numbers for their older consoles, or even their sell in numbers?
Lucky you... nearly 1 year in and I still don't have an XSX and haven't even seen one in person.
It might just be a region thing orchid. It's strange, the store I work at we get shipments of xbox's, but we've never gotten a shipment of ps5's. Only online, we tried it once a while ago, but the cops were called from the mob that tried to run in and grab them. I never even got to see them.
Of cause not! Those are sold to retailers, not the inventory of MS anymore. Of cause MS would already realized in their P&L the lose on each X/S sold.
But wouldn't apples to apples be the Series X stock shortages vs PS5. They are very hard to get right now across vast majority of retailers BUT of course you may find them in stock, here & there, thats anecdotal, not really the reality in most places.
Sounds like MS are doing well - they just posted 60bn in profit for the first time ever. Glad to hear they are all in on gaming - more competition is better for us consumers.
How much of the $60 billion profit come from Xbox?
Where did I say any of it came from Xbox?
The article is discussing Xbox. That’s why I’m asking since you went off topic.
Microsoft is going to be investing a ton more in search-based revenues with that growth in that sector. I don't like seeing the decline of Surface numbers. They're solid hardware items and selling less won't see them reduced in price for years to come. It's the best 2-in-1 laptop I've used with great pen support.
You do realize they said Surface sales were down due to supply constraints right?
***You do realize they said Surface sales were down due to supply constraints right?*** 1. Can you explain to me how that is going to get prices lower, which is my complaint? 2. Supply constraints, but I can go on the site and buy one right now and have been able to do as such for the last 3 months. There were some initial out-of-stock of the business model in March, but that's gone now.
@Christopher Yeah it's pretty sad to see it faltering like that. I use a Surface Book and I love it, it's easily the best laptop I've had - and I don't even use the pen (I can't draw to save myself, and my handwriting isn't much better) but I have heard good things about it from artists etc. That being said, I don't feel the need to go buy a new Surface Book, there hasn't really been any huge evolution, just CPU/GPU upgrades and I really only use it for email, MS office and a web browser - all PC gaming is done on my gaming rig and all work/programming is done on a Threadripper pro workstation - no laptop is ever going to compete with that in terms of compile & link times. They are also pretty expensive for a laptop - I can build a gaming rig for similar prices. So I can see why people aren't buying new ones. And then they also had the Duo that didn't sell well seemingly. I think they need to get back that spark and innovation they had in the earlier days of the Surface line and come up with something new & appealing - but I do realize that is a lot easier said than done.
Congratulations. I would say more but it's too easy.
'Fastest selling Ms console ever ever ever' So sales matter Or they don't Or they do Or?
They matter when it's a statistic that makes them look good. If they don't get good PR from a sales number the sales become irrelevant and it's all about something BS like "monthly active users" or something.
I dont think most here are saying back & forth that sales matter and then they dont but I dont know why it seems to bother some people that a company touts their good sales data & is much more tight lip when the numbers dont look so good, thats PR 101, they all do it and thats all thats happening here, those bothered could easily skip this news.
Honestly, I don't think console sales do matter much. None of these vendors make money directly on hardware. They make money from royalties on their platform, subscription services, and game sales. And in Microsoft's case those sales can now come on PC, XB console, and smart phones. So, XB console may not be their primary revenue.
Console sales do matter. The more consoles you sold, more developers will make content for say console. Just take look at the PS Vita, it didnt sell well therefore, not a lot of developers made games for it. We all know most consoles are sold at a lost at the beginning. The reason for that is to get as many early adopters as possible. Once parts and materials become cheaper to make these consoles, the company can think about profiting off of console sells. But the the priority is to get as many consoles into the hands of consumers at possible. Majority of the companies will make up that lost with software sales, subscriptions, accessories, etc... More consoles sold, more software support the players will get. Its common sense.
@kayoss I do see your point. But there are three things different now then in the past... 1) All three consoles sell enough that no 3rd party can really ignore any of them. 2) The development and marketing costs for games has risen to a point where most 3rd parties have to ship on all three consoles 3) The hardware of all three consoles is based on PC world. It is not as hard to port games on different consoles anymore because of that
Yet they still won't release sales numbers because it's obvious they pale in comparison to the competition.
Why does it even matter for the end user? Only on consoles are people fixated on sales. No other consumer product is like this.
Why it wouldn't matter? Even Nintendo share their numbers when their were doing bad. This is relevant information. Unless you company feels shame of its performance.
I personally am waiting to find out how many Big Macs McDonald's sold compared to Burger King's whoppers before I make my purchase.
It does matter to end user. It gives the end user an idea of the health of the console they invested in. Its a tell tale sign if end users will get software support. I gave this example. PS Vita, there were a lot early adopters for the hand held. however, as sales number were released. I can tell that the PS vita was doing poorly. To me, this is a sign that we may not get the software support we wanted. No developers will put money into developing for a console that dont do well. They will end up losing money. Even Sony didnt support the PS Vita.
@kayoss Ok but which third parties stopped supporting Nintendo because of the Wii U? Which stopped because of the Xbox One. Consoles Sales aren't the only indicator of the health of a platform. And being in third place doesn't mean you lost.
Xbox is doing well, If you squint and shake your head at the same time. These are not good number when compared to the field.
Could we get those numbers to verify?