When did PlayStation stop believing in generations?

PlayStation sold PS5 on the promise of next-gen exclusives, making its U-turn all the more difficult to comprehend

[ABizzel1]

The article says "PlayStation sold PS5 on the promise of next-gen exclusives, making its U-turn all the more difficult to comprehend."

There's nothing difficult to comprehend. Neither company can manufacture as many consoles as they wanted or thought they'd be able to due to the chip shortage + COVID.

The PS4 still has over 100 million users which means millions upon millions of potential software sales.

The PS5 is backwards compatible so developers can simply target their games towards maxing out the PS4 Pro and simply port them up to the PS5 with a 4K and a 60fps mode, and port them down to the base PS4, and with games like the Last of Us Part 2, Horizon, and more than likely God of War, and even Gran Turismo looking or potentially looking amazing still being cross-gen does it currently matter if they're cross-gen. I mean the Last of Us Part 2

The issue was Jim Ryan's statement, which he should have never said if he knew this was going to become the direction, or he should have retracted the statement.

[Eonjay]

The answer is that when they couldn't make the PS5 fast enough the realized that they have to recoup the cost of games and its not like they want a full year or two delay just to have the PS5 supply issues fixed. GOW sold over 10 million copies. There is no way they can even make enough PS5s in time to not destroy game sales.

In this way you can give credit to Microsoft for seeing this early. But what Sony is doing is about protecting sales.

Thats it.

[Popsicle]

I expect by 2022 there will be many more PS5s in the consumers hands. Especially for those whom really want one. The messaging by Sony to the consumer at the beginning of this gen has been poor at best. Especially when they tried to bury Microsoft with the "we believe in generations" comment.

[JEECE]

It sold over ten million copies, but it sold strong for 2+ years (the "games sell most of their copies in the first 3 months" logic doesn't apply to tentpole games). What people like you seem to forget is that the PS5 won't be removed from the market the day God of War releases. People will keep buying it, and if God of War had been a PS5 exclusive, it would have been the game many of them bought alongside the console. So God of War's sales on PS5 are not limited to the number of PS5 owners on the day the game comes out. Look at BOTW, it launched when the install base of Switch was literally 0 and it sold well over 10 million there (probably closer to 20). And yes, I know it was on Wii U as well, but no one had a Wii U, so practically speaking most interested people had to get a Switch to have access to it.

[darthv72]

^^I have a wiiu, and that is the version I bought.

[NotoriousWhiz]

@JEECE, this is very true. Every time PS5 stock replenishes, Miles Morales has a spike in sales.

[CaptainHenry916]

@Eonjay

I kinda agree with you. Even though I'm not a fan of cross gen games when it comes to first party exclusives, hmm this might be the reason they decided to go cross gen. Definitely possible since it's hard to get a PS5. Jim Ryan and Sony don't wanna lose that PS4 install base. Lot's of money on the table

[roadkillers]

That's a load. No one could find a Switch upon release, yet BotW sold more games than available consoles. That game is currently the best selling Zelda by far, I think with a margin of over 10 million.

[Eonjay]

Sony Studios have had PS5 dev kits for nearly 5 years:

https://www.google.com/amp/...

[FlavorLav01]

The likely truth is GoW sequel, Horizon sequel, and GT7 were in development before PS5 dev kits were even done. So of course they were made with last-gen in mind. Doesn’t mean they won’t take advantage of the PS5, especially the dual-sense, which is a game changer on its own. And, we will still see a healthy dose of PS5 exclusives continuing forward. Don’t know why in the middle of a supply constraint folks act like Sony should shoot their own selves in the foot. They DO have PS5 exclusives now and in the pipeline. Please someone show me where Jim Ryan said EVERY major title going forward would be PS5 exclusive. Then the statement stands, he wasn’t wrong, a new gen is here. Just finished Returnal and I’m picking up new Ratchet and Clank here very shortly. Not to mention Demon Souls was a badass way to start the gen. If you’ve played it you know.

[darthv72]

@jay, the time stamp on that tweet was only 3 years ago. Are you saying Sony's internal teams had them for 2 more years before sending out to 3rd parties? That would make the 5 kit as old as the Pro.

@whiz, do you think the uptick in Miles has anything to do with them being bundled with systems at the same time? That is how I got my PS5, in a bundle from GS with Miles and CoD.

[Eonjay]

@Darth

Yes. This is actually really common. First this is that they get EARLY dev kits and are actually part of the hardware dev process. And they are much easier to control NDA wise.

[JEECE]

It matters because we want PS5 games to be more than PS4 games at 4K/60fps with shorter load times. If devs followed your line of thinking, we'd still be getting PS1 style games, just with better graphics. Sony sold the PS5 on the idea that the SSD would allow devs to design gameworlds differently, which of course can't happen if they are actually designed for PS4. Similarly, we heard for half the gen that the PS4 CPU was limiting devs, so the PS5's CPU was supposed to open things up in terms of AI quality and the number of things going on in a game. This too is impossible with games built on PS4.

[Popsicle]

This^. The issue is not so much graphics and performance as it is more about what gen 9 can bring with new game designs that were previously unattainable in past generations. The icing on the cake is that it will bring enhanced graphics and performance on top of new game design, better A.I., etc.

[NeoGamer232]

There is definitely nothing untrue about what you said. I fully agree with what you said.

But, anyone that believes marketing and what the console vendors say is misguided. If you go back to previous generations, there are very few games in the first two years of a console cycle that fully take advantage of the new hardware. And each console cycle it is taking longer and longer to see games that fully utilize the new consoles.

Usually, the games that define the generation are from year three forward.

The console vendors say a lot to get us to buy their hardware. But, the reality is that they all straight out lie or omit key truths. That is a real problem now-a-days. People believe the marketing and companies and don't wait to validate. They just impulsively buy.

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[generic-user-name]

JEECE is speaking sense. Sony should not be defended for this short-sighted decision, neither should MS, both of these companies should be putting out as many compelling reasons to own their new hardware as possible, shortages or no. The shortages will eventually end, but Halo Infinite and GoW Ragnarok will be forever gimped by 2013 hardware.

[KillBill]

Your statement seems to suggest all these PS4/PS5 cross gen games were made after chip shortage and COVID. They have been in work for many years prior. It has been known for a very long time that crossgen was going to be a thing for them.

Yes the issue is on Jim Ryan's statement but he wasn't the only one in leadership that said it. It was taken and ran with by Cerny even.

[I_am_Batman]

Target platforms are determined at the start of pre-production. You can't simply add a much weaker platform mid development without invalidating a big portion of the work done to that point. Chip shortage and Covid have absolutely nothing to do with these games being cross-gen. Besides, PS5 sells like hot cakes so I don't see Sony having much higher expectations than the actual numbers, even pre chip shortage.

Backwards compatibility is a non-factor as well. You're talking about porting the game. BC doesn't require a port and a higher resolution & fps version of a PS4 Pro game is not what most people have in mind when they are talking about a next gen God of War game.

God of War might be Sony's biggest upcoming flagship title and it will be designed around hardware limitations of 2013 console hardware. My personal excitement for this title has dropped significantly in the light of this news. It's easy to see how the SSD could've been utilized in a game where you travel to different realms and I was hoping to see it utilized in puzzles, combat and epic setpieces.

[Rude-ro]

It is just shill hit pieces.

The more traffic, the more eyes see these click bait titles and the negative tone is set.

Only people with iq of 40 and are new to gaming believe this crap.

I hope one day this gets regulated.
This type of corporate sabotage is beyond disgusting.

Microsoft has been sued before for said tactics...
but once the troll seed is planted, it grows into its own thing.

Not one other gaming platform with hardware has done what Sony has done/provided in the last ten years and counting while the majority of the competitions praise is reverse compatibility(ie no new gen titles) due to a lack of new and innovating games/game engines.

For future knowledge... do not comment on these.
Commenting creates traffic. Traffic effects engine searches. Engine searches are the goal to spread such shill negative tones.

[medman]

@abizzel1
People like you make no sense to me. Somehow, you say "Neither company can manufacture as many consoles as they wanted or thought they'd be able to due to the chip shortage + COVID" as if either situation you mention has anything at all to do with the issue at hand....it does not. All these games have been in development for years, which means they were always designed to be ps4 titles. They were not designed specifically for ps5 and then all of a sudden covid and oops, let's make these cross gen...does your mind really work like this? Yikes. These companies can't pivot that quickly. If they could, there would be no shortages, they would just pump out ps5's from a different factory, utilizing different parts, but it doesn't work that way. These decisions are made long in advance. Stop making excuses. It's weak.

When you begin development with the understanding that you have to make your game run on the weak for 2013 jaguar cpu in the ps4, you're already behind. There can be no great leaps forward, because you are limited from the get go. Unacceptable. This is not the way. This is wrong in so many ways it's disgusting. Greed and arrogance shown from Sony again. As a gamer who has owned every single sony console since ps1 except the handheld, this infuriates me. The next Naughty Dog game better not be cross gen. If it is, Sony is dead....consumed by imbeciles who put short term profits above their own studios innovation and brilliance. Stupid.

[Bronbron92]

I agree with your statement, and that’s what I thought maybe these games were already in development for ps4, the ps5 comes up so why not make it for ps5 snd not to think of what COVID has caused why cut off so much your consumers with the big games that they want, I understand the step back on generations thing but I still think Sony believes in generations I mean they’re still providing games only accessible on ps5

[Andrew336]

Im confused. I didnt realize the ps4 pro and ps5 were on par with power and that ps5 just needs a simple 4k and 60fps mode to make everyone happy.

[sourOG]

When they couldn’t meet the demands of ps5. If there was no chip shortage i’m sure the conversation would have gone a different way. At this point it would be ignorant to shun the PS4 user base.

[Eonjay]

This.

[bleedsoe9mm]

problem with this PS4 versions would have been in development log before any chip shortage

[aquamala]

These games have to be in development for 3+ years by now they didn’t just decide to add PS4 support in 2020/21

[JEECE]

This. It's telling that the same people who think Sony can look at a game that's been in development on PS5 for several years and add a PS4 version one year before release are the same people who don't understand that a PS5 should be able to add more to games other than just upping the framerate and resolution.

[darthv72]

PS5 dev kits were only leaked not even 2 years ago.

[RaidenBlack]

Exactly ... the technical decision was made in pre-production stage, well before pandemic.

[sourOG]

Why not? Lol.. I would after 2020 and delay it just like they did. If not that’s cool but don’t act like it’s crazy or that you know for a fact. You know as much as anyone else.

[JEECE]

PS5 is selling better than PS4 or PS3 during the same period of their lifespans, but Sony still focused on those consoles and "shunned" the prior gen. PS2 and PS3 each got one big last exclusive in the months after the next gen launched (God of War 2 and GT6, respectively), and then Sony moved on. The only cross gen title they consistently made was MLB the show, and sports games always go cross gen for awhile.

[sourOG]

Different times.

[LOGICWINS]

The issue is that Microsoft was criticized last year for doing the EXACT SAME THING Sony is getting a pass on right now lol.

[Popsicle]

While I agree that Microsoft was heavily criticized by announcing they would support cross gen through 2022. I do not see the majority giving Sony a pass on this issue. This is a bad look for them after they took a shot a Microsoft with the "believing in generations comment." A comment I fully marked out to and loved at the time, but now the quote (which I parroted on Sony's behalf) just makes me feel foolish.

[dumahim]

I don't really think Sony is getting a pass on this any more than MS fans backing MS's choice to support cross-gen when they announced that. If anything, Sony is getting more flak for being shady about it.

[DragonWarrior19]

Even with the shortage, there is still more PS5s in the wild than the PS4 at this point in it’s life. There is no excuse to keep holding back developers anymore. I was able to buy a PS5 4 separate times to help friends. They aren’t hard to get if you put it any amount of effort into getting one.

[sourOG]

Who cares though? Comparing that transition to this transition isnt the same. How many ps4s are out there now that can deliver games like god of war? Many more than ps5s.

[Master of Unlocking]

At what price though?

[KillBill]

The games in question ALL were started many years before COVID caused any chip shortage. why are people using it as an excuse to why Sony is doing this?

[sourOG]

It doesn’t matter. Do you think it’s impossible to port returnal to PS4 in 2 years? Is that game so advanced that it would brick your PS4? No lol. I think y’all’s vision of the ps5 at this stage is in the clouds to be honest.

[AuraAbjure]

Yep

[DOMination-]

I've just written another comment about this, so check that for details but Sony have not really been affected by the chip shortage. They've shipped over 10 million units in six months. Even at best sales projections, there's no way they would have planned for much more than that, considering this is already a sales record.

I honestly don't think this can be used as the reason for the change because they've sold the same amount as what they would have projected. The demand for the product is a completely separate thing and you can't confuse the two.

[sourOG]

Fair point but I disagree. I think they projected way more than that and as a manufacturer they knew about chip shortages well in advance. If the demand was being met then it could double 10 million easily. I think all of this is accounted for.

[darthv72]

They still believe in generations. It's just that in a transitional period (usually the first 1-2 years) why not cater to both? They haven't had the opportunity to do that before (themselves) because the generational divide between outgoing and incoming hardware has always been so great. Making crossgen development next to impossible. But with the x86 design of both the 4 & 5 it is now more possible and they are taking advantage of that.

MS would generally cut off the previous and move everything over to the new (and get lambasted for it) but even they understood there is $$ to be made by catering to both. Which is why the 360/XBO had some crossgen games like titanfall and Forza Horizon 2. The 360 versions did not hold back the xbo versions. And neither will the PS4 versions of games in regards to the PS5.

[Eonjay]

Look what happened to Halo Infinite last year. The thing is you can make cross gen games all you want as long as people don't think last gen is holding this gen back. Also, I said like a year ago that Microsoft's decision makes sense. And from a pure business point of view how can anyone deny that. They got lambasted because of Craig. If that is the result of their cross gen, people weren't feeling it. There is after all a right and wrong way to do the same thing. GG made sure to show Horizon in its best light. It looked incredible.

[darthv72]

I know im in the minority but I thought infinite looked pretty good. All the cool particle effects and improved textures on the weapons and characters (maybe not so much the faces). I could def see they had made great strides between the look of 5 and that one. People harped so much on the brute face that they glossed over all the good stuff that was shown.

[JEECE]

I notice someone stopped bringing up Destiny as an example of cross-gen working after realizing Bungie talked openly about cross-gen limiting that game.

[darthv72]

I looked that up and it seems to be they had issue with the PS3/4 versions. Not the 360/XBO so much. So you are welcome to add that back in if you like.

[JEECE]

@darthv72

Actually both last gen platforms held it back. If you look beyond the headline (which mentions the PS platforms because it's from a PS-focused site), Bungie actually says the memory limits of both old platforms limited the scope of the game.

https://www.psu.com/news/ps...

[Tedakin]

That's exactly what Xbox said they were doing last year and they got absolutely roasted by the media and gamers.

[thesoftware730]

Tesakin,

Its called hypocrisy, and N4G has no shortage of it when it come to anything Sony does.

[FlavorLav01]

It’s because when Sony did it, their game(s) looked amazing, when Xbox did it, we got a hollow looking “open-world” Halo that stinks of GAAS, looking as bad as Craig, with weird/poor column textures painted all over the map. Big difference in execution based off each example. Halo looked nothing close to Horizon sequel shown graphic-wise, and they’re both cross-gen. I think the stink was justified.

[mastershredder]

“Wonderful” staff opinion piece.

“I'm GamesRadar's Features Writer, which makes me responsible for gracing the internet with as many of my words as possible, including reviews, previews, interviews, and more. Lucky internet”

Yes, less grace the internet with your nonsensical banter.

Tech radar needs to lighten their opinion article loads. First inject some situational logic. Study your sources materials (rather than mimic another opinion piece you read some place) and what they actually mean, how it works, less wild ass “creative” guesses and assumptions or made up bs.

Hey Alex! Imagine if there were things called disasters, or material shortages that might impact the industry. Then, imagine there are so many peeps that see your sludge of poser-sauce every time you write an article. Research and think dude. This is defiant 13 year old crap with a loose command on the words he’s such a hotshot at.

[aconnellan]

On the whole, I agree that the state of gaming journalism is in the toilet.

To discuss the topic itself - it seems you’re suggesting that Sony built these games for the last 3-4 (or however long) years on the PS5, and then decided 6-12 months ago that they need a port to the PS4 due to shortages. I’m really not sure that’s how game development works, given platforms are usually decided and locked into development during pre and initial production.

Then there’s this quote:

“For Horizon Forbidden West and God of War, however, these games were always intended to release as cross-gen titles, I was told, but Sony did not mention the last-gen console during the announcement of either title”

https://www.videogameschron...

On the whole, my opinion is that cross-gen releases are a good thing - for the first 1-2 years. Beyond that, probably not so much.

The thing I can’t stand is the blatant hypocrisy on N4G - when MS does it, it’s bad. But when Sony does it, it’s either a great decision or we have to make up excuses as to why it’s different to what MS is doing. Some consistency would be appreciated

[TricksterArrow]

Isn’t Returnal and the upcoming Ratchet PS5 exclusives?

[enkiduxiv]

Exactly. And both of these games do something unique with the new hardware. Everyone is just latching on to God of War because they consider it a pivotal Sony franchise. It's not, really. It has a history and is identifiable but before the last soft reboot, everyone was sleeping on it. Go look at comment threads from before the game's release to see my point.

These critics seem to think Sony is just the God of War, Horizon Zero Dawn, Gran Turismo company. I guess it has something to do with the fact that their own favorite company has been regurgitating the same three franchises for the last decade and a half. Hopefully, E3 will brighten their spirits. All kinds of new empty promises for them to latch on to right around the corner.

[darthv72]

Anyone who has been a sony player would know that both GT7 and GoW were expected on the PS4. We have always had two of these games per console release.
GT1 & 2 (PS1)
GT3 & 4 (PS2) / GoW1 & 2
GT5 & 6 (PS3) / GoW3 & Ascension
GTS & 7 (PS4) / GoW reboot and GoW:R
GT7 & 8 (PS5) / GoW:R and GoW:?

[Bennibop]

And destruction allstars

[Teflon02]

On confused on what made them stop to you? Sony has always worked on the premise of supporting older generations for years. That was one of the things I always liked about PlayStation. Going to pretend, 90% of games weren't on PS3 too at the start of PS4. Like come on, even LittleBIGPlanet 3 was on PS3 despite the big upgrade. Was it as good? Nahh, but they always did support the previous gen.

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

Completely different things. Knack, Killzone SF, Infamous SS, and Driveclub were not on PS3. Prior to the PS5, LittleBigPlanet 3 is the only game in the history of Playstation to be a cross-gen game. Sony has always done the best job at supporting their existing platform while at the same time supporting the next-gen platform with first-party games made just for it. Now though, PS5 owners will have to wait until 2023 to really start getting games made just for it.

[elazz]

Every console generation was a completely different architecture. Now ps4 and ps5 have the same architecture so scaling up and down is relatively easy within certain conditions.

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

@elazz

That really has nothing to do with it though. Different console architecture didn't prevent third-parties from releasing all the cross-gen games for the PS3 and PS4, or even the PS2 and PS3. Sony used to believe in generations, which is why God of War 2 was just released on the PS2 even though it came out after the launch of the PS3. Same thing with Gran Turismo 6 releasing on the PS3 in December 2013. It is why Uncharted just released on the PS3 in 2007 even though there were over 100 million PS2 owners.

[gold_drake]

Unexpected ps5 demand (that one i find really funny cause .. well what did they expect haha)
covid pandemic
chip shortage.

they cant just focus on the ps5 alone anymore. with alot of people still not having one, why should they?
isnt it better to meet the demand of new games by making them available for ps4 users aswell? i dont quite see the issue here.

i dont understand why we are still talking about this, or more accurately, why are gaming journalists talking about this? they're fully aware of those facts.

atleast new stuff is coming out.

[Popsicle]

I cannot give Sony a pass here. Microsoft was at least honest at the beginning and stated that they would continue with cross-gen games until 2022. This was widely criticized by gamers and Sony took this as an opportunity to pile on the competition by saying "we believe in generations."

I personally attacked Microsoft in this forum when I saw the Halo Infinite Demo and said something to the affect of "this is what happens when you do not believe in generations." It is obvious that Sony was attempting to send an alternative message that they "believe in generations" and the competition does not. At best this was misleading because there largest most succesful IPs are going to be cross-gen until at least 2022 as well.

[dumahim]

You know you fucked up when you take the opposite path of MS being honest and up front.

[JayRyu]

^^^^Agreed!

It's not that this was a surprise. it's that Jim Ryan making the "We Believe in Generations" comment that was misleading even though they were planning to bring the larger IPs to both pS5 and PS4.

Thank you for at least keeping that same energy when you see Hypocrisy.

[ScootaKuH]

According to Jim Ryan they still do 🤣

[Paleblood]

This is very simple. We are in a world pandemic. The moment Sony saw that their user base can't move to the PS5 due to all the production problems in this pandemic, was the moment they understood they cannot abandon people on PS4.

For me, what Sony is doing is right thing. We as gamers only care about getting a next Gen game. Sony as a company has to care about all their users in PS4 and PS5.

[JEECE]

Their userbase is moving to the new console faster than ever before. Also these games were on PS4 well before the pandemic; Horizon was based around PS4.

[Darkborn]

When fauci collaborated with China to manufacture a virus to shut down the world's economy. That made manufactotirng ps5's a d getting them directly into the consumers hands harder than before. That's when playstation had to switch up their strategy.

I'm allowed to say something like this now becuase apparently it's a thing over a year after this theory was shut down without evidence.

[darthv72]

Fauci the fraud. Trump was right all along but the people wouldnt listen, or more specifically, the media controlled the narrative that the people listened to.

okay that is off topic but major issues with.. well, everything had caused Sony to rethink their strategy. you cant blame them for making adjustments. They should have come forward and said something first before just springing it on everyone. They had the right intentions just the wrong way of delivering them.

[Darkborn]

I agree. I believe they should have at least showed off GOW gameplay and after we pick our Jaws off the floor, have the screen pop up and say ps5 and ps4. This way we already know it looks amazing and then we get the bad news. Right now the issue is we have no idea what it looks like and all we have is bad news.

[aconnellan]

What was Trump right about? Stop me if we’re getting too off-topic

[Gameseeker_Frampt]

How exactly does that work? China worked to shut down the world economy in order to prevent consumers from buying a PS5 that is made in China???

[VerminSC]

How the fuck did this comment get any upvotes?! This guy sounds like a loon

The fact that this guy has any upvotes makes me worry about the worlds average intelligence...

[Popsicle]

Not that looney just not well stated. Fauci did not collaborate on the creation of the virus but he did allow the indirect funding with US tax $ through the NIH for gain of function research to the Wuhan lab in question. Did Covid come from that lab? We do not know yet. However, the former CDC director believes it did and Fauci had flipped on his position from last year that it absolutely could not have to maybe it did and should be investigated. All of these discussions were taboo and censored when the orange man was in office.

Not sure this relates well to the Sony discussion, but figured maybe this may shed some light on a comment that made you think someone is a loon.

[anast]

This is good work. Take notes.

[WillyC009]

Wait....I missed the memo that Rachel & clank, Demon Souls remake & Returnal aren’t PS5 exclusive?! When did that happen?

[Paleblood]

Hating on Alloy's face is over. They need something new now so this is what they got.

[WillyC009]

It’s hilarious at how transparent these articles and ‘voices of concern’ are.

It’s almost as transparent as the propaganda push to prop up Microsoft’s Xbox division. It’s painfully obvious.

[anast]

PS will not make PS4 games forever. But one of the reasons I like PS is that they do support the older hardware for a long time. There is great for consumers, not so much for people that live in bubbles and think the entire world needs to behave as the bubble says. Game journos are so far removed from gamers, it's not even the same culture at this point.

[The_Sage]

Have you forgotten about Returnal, Ratchet and Clank, Sackboys Big Adventure, and Demon Souls already? Never mind the fact that most people can not even get a PS5 yet... including me.

[Elda]

I'm quite sure they didn't realize the shortage of PS5 consoles would last this long so they spoke too fast so it is what it is. It's more of a business decision. I commend PS for supporting both of their consoles with releasing current AAA exclusives to this very day. The PS5 being released for only 8 months have a few big budget exclusives.

[chiefJohn117]

Excuses you was singing a different tune a few weeks ago

[Elda]

What tune was that girlfriend??

[abeosaa]

This happens every new console generation, why do people act surprised every time?

There is always a 1-2 year transition period of cross gen games because surprise surprise game devs want to reach the larger market and they know the games can be scaled to work on both. Also development would have started a few years prior to the current gen console release so would've began with the PS4 in mind.

Eventually games will be made that are beyond the capabilities of the current consoles. Hell there already are games that are only on the PS5, which makes this look even more stupid. This is just a dumb attempt to bash devs for no reason without thinking about the bigger picture, or doing any research.

[Good-Smurf]

Yeah Jim message was mixed but that was it none of them message promised that all of their first party will be next gen only.
And PS5 already have few next gen only games but since the guy not being completely frank with let's forget all the PS5 only games both unannounced announced and one that's about to release next week.
The other camp got praised for being upfront and consistent but still have nothing to show for.

[Father__Merrin]

More and more ps5 Exclusives will come they have promised that. If they will release on ps4 also that'd fine. The better game will be on ps5 let's wait until it releases before judging its quality but going of track record it will be excellent unlike another manufavturer

[Deathdeliverer]

I think people misunderstood the generations thing. They said every new generation should feel different. Feel like a leap. Every system should have that discovery feel. PS5 has that with me. Several new features, shortcuts, and capabilities that show me immediately that this is something new and better than what I had. Even the sound (you must HEAR returnal in a 3D audio headset. Best game I’ve ever heard.) is a cut above anything else. Every PlayStation gen has that. Of course you need things to show you the power of your new system, the focused titles. Returnal, Demons Souls, destruction all stars, Oddworld, and Ratchet are all PS5 exclusive. Sony has never abandoned a previous gen, why anyone ever thought they would now is beyond me. The absolute biggest titles needed to be shared, especially if you consider how long GOW and Horizon had to be in development. PS5 launched like 6 months ago and we are almost done with the year. Horizon and God of war were immediate hits a few YEARS ago. They were clearly already deep in development before PS5 dev even got finalized behind the scenes. Ratchet on the other hand probably was in the planning stages.
In comparison, and I have had my series X from day one just like my PlayStation, look at the series X. Xbox one felt different day one from 360, same as 360 did from the OG. That generational feeling. That discovery. That is gone on Series X. If you have a One X, slap a share button in the controller, make it a faster OS all around, and add quick resume. You now have a Series X. There’s no discovery and nothing new but those things. Why they locked dynamic background to the new consoles is beyond me but there’s that. That’s the generational leap Sony was talking in part. That feeling. I love my series X, I do, but the only exclusives are Ori and the medium and it wouldn’t be hard to rattle off games that look a lot better than the medium. (And a hell of a lot more fun) Ori is bae though 😘.
But the series X feels like a elite One X. The PS5 feels like a generational difference from PS4.

[anast]

I was going to read this until I saw the emoji.

[aceloth]

The answer to this question: When Sony became dependent on its PlayStation business to stay afloat…

[CrimsonWing69]

When Jimbo became president and CEO of Sony Interactive Entertainment.

[Obelisk92]

Covid, I guess?

[franwex]

There’s always a bit of overlap between gens. Many years ago people said the same thing regarding God of War 2 being on PS2 rather than PS3, Gran Turismo 6 being on PS3 rather than PS4, etc.

I kinda like that actually.

Eventually games build from the ground up for the current Gen will come. I think early adopters should have that expectation by now.

[sizeofyou]

So much fuss and exaggeration over a statement.
There are PS5 exclusives already BUT Sony were never going to abandon 100 million other Playstation owners at the drop of a new console. And if they had, there'd be even more stick than the current guff doing the rounds. They aren't doing anything wrong by either generation and that's how it should be. New exclusives and cross platform. Exactly as there has been every other generation.
Mountains and mole hills...IMO.

[Donjune]

Another lie from Sony, but it's ok lol.

[northpaws]

Start worrying when PlayStation games stop getting GOTY awards left and right.

[DivineHand125]

I hope that cross gen games won't cost more than $60.

[ZeekQuattro]

They never did. It was corpo jargon to both take a swipe at Microsoft and build hype for the then upcoming PS5 by creating fomo. For instance until a month or two before release Miles was continually pushed as a PS5 exclusive. The new HZD and GOW were heavily teased as PS5 exclusives yet are still coming to PS4 as well. They knew they were going to continue to support the PS4 for at least the next two years after the PS5 launched.

[thesoftware730]

BS,it has nothing to do with "not being able to produce enough PS5s". It was a low blow by Jim Ryan who clearly BS'ed everyone to capitalize on something MS was taking negative heat for, lets be honest about.

Come on, as capable as the Ps4 pro is, and already in millions of homes, they were never gonna leave it behind this early, they are not rabid fans, they are a corporation that wants money, plain and simple. They would have been off their rockers if they dropped support for the PS4 which is probably being played more than any other system.

Why the heck do people feel the need to make excuses for Jim Ryan and Sony? They don't really give a shit except about their bottom line. Its not like this will make people stop buying Sony products or make their games somehow bad now..stop with the excuses...They lied, that's all there is to it.

[spirited]

More Ps5 consoles sold than ps4 in same time frame.

[DaleCooper]

When they needed to please stockholders.

[crxss]

since PS1

[MIDGETonSTILTS17]

I think a major issue is simply that devs don’t know how yet to make a game that can ONLY run on ps5 and it’s special ssd.

For now, it is simply possible to port most games between gens. I think we all just hope this doesn’t lead to any ps5 games being redesigned to work on the ps4.

[S2Killinit]

I love how they try to flip PlayStation’s good news into bad news. Horizon is going to blow minds, that’s all I need to know.

[medman]

Sony is going to face some serious blowback on this "new" policy....there is no way Sony's major franchises should be hampered in development by having to produce games that will also work on the weak for 2013 jaguar cpu in the ps4. They will make their money in the short term, but this will infuriate many of their loyal fans and gamers who expect their first party titles to push the medium forward, not be hamstrung by the last generations console. It's preposterous. A short term win money-wise, but perhaps a Sony gaming division killer in the long term. I have owned every playstation console since ps1 except for the handheld, and this news does not make me happy. At all. Proceed with caution Sony...your arrogance has harmed you in the past....apparently, lessons that were learned have already been forgotten.

If the next Naughty Dog game, or the next Spider-Man game is cross gen, get the pitchforks and torches. There will be many, many calls for Herman Hulst to be removed from the head of the studio, because apparently his vision for Playstation only sees what is behind him, not what is ahead. The Sony first party studios are exceptional. To cripple them in this way is not acceptable. Let them create, let them dream. Don't limit them right out of the gate with new projects by having to make games run on old tech. What a joke. But nobodies laughing.

[BrainSyphoned]

Uh.....ps2 since it is the same every gen?

[Profchaos]

It's not mandatory that devs push for both consoles to release a game on ratchet would be the main example the Devs were allowed to push next gen features into that and the same goes for demon souls.

But as for games like God of war I can understand them not wanting to miss so many users when they can't even get the game out in the hands of people that want it because of the stock shortages

[iplay1up2]

When the gap of power still allowed for amazing looking games, even on older systems! The base PS4 is still capable of putting out fantastic visuals. Sure the games will look and run better on the PS5, but PS4 is still a very capable console.

I am more concerned with the base Xbox One cross gen titles. Thr OG PS4 was HDR ready at launch. The base Xbox One wasn't. If any cross gen games are held back because of power, it would probably be Xbox. I say that, but Microsoft has done a good job so far with Series S/X updates.

Sony isn't making a mistake with cross gen games. Things like ray tracing just won't be on PS4. The games will still look great. At this rate I might not have a PS5 till 2022. I keep trying though.

[SpineSaw]

Sony said "those that purchase a PS5 would be rewarded". Games like God of War 2, Horizon Forbidden West though it may also be playable and sold on the PS4 but if you want the "reward" you'll need to purchase that PS5 as these games will run at a much higher frame rate and display more pixels and therefore run and look better. This is a hit job to take a shot at Sony because those behind the hit job have absolutely nothing to talk about related to their own products and services.

[BoneMagnus]

Hyperbole alert!!!

[GamingSinceForever]

Well look at the bright side of it all, games like HFW and GOW2 won't cost you $70. Now you can be happy about that because this was the real issue a week ago.

I realize this toxic gaming community isn't satisfied unless there is something to bitch about. But in the end you will still buy and play these games and yap about how they are the best looking games ever.

[Germaximus]

and exclusives

Jim Ryan?

[chicken_in_the_corn]

When they remade the PS4

[derek]

I dont like cross platform development as a ps5 owner, I want new games exclusive to the hardware. But my dislike must be tempered in the reality that I haven't even seen the game yet. It's possible and even likely that gow will look stunning.

[UltimateRacer]

I personally don’t understand the whole hype/controversy about this, if you have a problem with Sony messaging then fair enough but we have Demon Souls,Returnal and R&C all PS5 exclusive so what’s the issue. They never stated the likes of HZFW,GOW or GT7 would be exclusive to PS5 that was simply a presumption by people, most games began on the PS4 so naturally Sony aren’t going to can it’s development and throw it all away. Also with PS5s production struggles and 115 million PS4s out there it’s makes perfect sense to have those games on that platform.

[Matpan]

This is simple economics. Until the PS5 install base is big enough that it can ensure a AAA studios investment in a major title can easily yield a good return we will continue to see mainly games designed to run on both PS4 with some level of graphical improvement for the PS5...

It is a similar Logic behind Nintendo's 1st party approach to the switch for a good time now, but in reverse... the WIIU sold peanuts, let's sell all this games we invested in developing to this new larger user base...

Game developing costs are around 80 million USD for a modern AAA game, about as much goes into marketing usually, if not more... that makes a total modern game 120 to 160 million USD.

A Developer will take roughly between 35 and 50% of retail value depending on the market, after Sony / Ms cut and taxes. But let´s explore a BEST case scenario of 50%.

At 60USD retail price, a developer needs to sell 4 million copies just to break even for a game on the "cheap side" of the spectrum. Now... breaking even is not a great strategy. Developers want to make a profit. And while first and even second party developers may stand to make a larger cut from Sony, or even be partially subsidised in their development cost, they still need to move a LOT of units to stay profitable.

Horizon Zero down sold around 10 million copies by 2019. The PS4 install base by then was in the 90 million units range. That means it roughly reached 10% of the install base. Games obviously can (and had) done better than that... GTAV Sold 20 million copies for PS4 alone earlier in the consoles lifespan, reaching around 50% of the install base. But that is another story, it was a Game release on the tail end of the previous gen, by a larger dev, with a larger development budget, fifth game in the series with a bigger reach and history. GTA is the BEST case coming from one of the most reputable and better devs out there....

So in short, it only makes sense for the second game in the series to be released on both systems. PS5 has sold around 8 million units so far. Even if this game releases by the time there are 16 million PS5s out there it would need to do INCREDIBLY well on PS5 alone to reach the success of the first game. It would be stupid not to release on PS4... where they will most likely sell more units than on PS5...

[Pyrofire95]

What exactly is the issue?
Where people tricked into buying a PS5 when they would have been fine playing certain games on PS4?
"Oh great now I have this usless PS5, when I could have been playing games on PS4./sar"
"Poor people who already own PS4 will ALSO be able to play my premium PS5 games!"
Whatev. More people can play games. Yes theoretically games could be held back a bit but it's hypothetical.

[Good-Smurf]

They didn't it just that the message were too optimistic.
Next God of War probably started development right after the reboot released.
Gran Turismo 7 been in development since late 2017 so I'm not at all surprised it being cross gen.
Disappointed yes,but then I can't say there's not much we can do about that and if Sony were to intervene then the media would still have their way saying things like crunch and they don't listen to developer feedback.
But Jim Ryan took the fall for that message but to say that they have no faith in next gen only games is just flat out lie.
E3 is coming very soon so I'd say let them show more stuff before some pretend to freak out over their mixed message.
Crazy how two games confirmed to be cross gen and some thinks the sky is falling and their houses are on fire.

[Matpan]

Now this is not to say we won't have any exclusives exploiting the capabilities of the PS5 early(ish) on. Games like the upcoming Ratchet and Clank already show us a glimpse of what's to come. Sony, while needing to keep it's studios profitable also needs to deliver on the promises made when announcing this new console. So, little by little we will see more games departing from this "intergenerational space" and adopting more and more the full NEXT GEN Monicker.

We simply live in an era where console generation lines have blurred a bit more... back in the day there was no doubt about this.

Master System... Genesis... Saturn... Dreamcast...
NES... Snes... N64 (what a JUMP)... Gamecube
PS1... PS2... PS3

Vastly different architectures making the same game between these gens almos always implied a complete rework, new assets, different approaches.

Nowadays it feels mostly like changing the graphics quality settings from a PC to a more powerful one...

[Bronbron92]

So more big titles are getting released on ps4 what’s the big deal sure I get it they said they were about generations but hell look there’s a shortage for the material needed for the consoles to be created and a high demand expected to continue to next year Sony making the right moves allowing these newer titles still accessible during this pandemic! But wait let’s look at Xbox where for the next 3 years majority of their first party games are still accessible on the Xbox one

[lellkay]

Can't wait for R&C to go with my Returnal and Demon Souls.

[ScootaKuH]

Well it still does. PS5 doesn't have the same controller as PS4 does it? It's very much a next gen upgrade?

[FyBy]

They cant fulfil PS5 demand and still have over 100million of PS4 users. Its logical to make transition more fluent.
Worst thing they could do is to say "Hey we have these great PS5 games"...."But you cant go and buy PS5"...oooops...That would be faux pas. This is totally acceptable.

[Robodrake]

"When did PlayStation stop believing in generations?"

I dont know, why dont you ask Insomniac who are releasing ratchet and clank rift apart exclusively on ps5 next week.

[waverider]

Damn the attack doesn stop.... Same opinion being approved and top news on the site over and over and over...

[John_McClane]

A good rule of thumb is to always watch what people, (companies), do versus what they say.

[Terry_B]

When did gamesradar stop publishing good articles?

[anast]

Great point.