Xbox Dev Responds To Report That DRM Is A 'Serious Problem' On Xbox Series X

Over on the ResetEra forums, one Xbox developer by the name of OscarK has responded to the video in question. In his lengthy response, OscarK states that the main takeaway from the video is that Xbox needs to improve on its "on-console error messaging."

[Sonic-and-Crash]

they never wanted to remove them i say....they just soft -removed them for previous gen only to calm the negative tsunami that plummeting their sales and now quietly they bringing them back

[darthv72]

Im not sure I understand the issue. I can play my series s offline, but then I have it set as my home xbox so my xbox, 360 and xbo digital games i have acquired are playable without internet access. I cant say the same about using my one x offline (except for games I installed from disc) as you can only have one home xbox.

I am reminded of back in the 360 when you had to do a license transfer from one system to another if you swapped (like going from a fat to a slim) and after doing that then you could play the games offline. But if you had multiple systems, then only one was primary with the digital games installed while the other had to be signed in to play any of the games from your download history.

[Jin_Sakai]

Because not every digital game works offline even with the Xbox Series X set to home console. Did you watch the video?

[darthv72]

I did, and none of the xbo games i have on mine seem to be effected like the ones he demonstrated. That isnt to say it cant happen, only that in my situation i am unaffected. Now i will say that titles that are part of the GP subscription would be affected (as those would require some way to authenticate the usage).

Now one aspect that would be a problem is the use of cloud saves for 360 games where as og xbox and even xbo can use local saves (that then sync with cloud). So if you load up a 360 game on even an xbo, and you dont have internet then it may throw up a error that it cant find the save. It is an odd decision that it is only 360 game saves that are cloud based and not locally supported.

[littletad]

The dude transferred his xbox one and smart delivery titles to a new console, then tried launching them offline to an xbox series sx set at "home console." Of course the games weren't going to launch correctly without accessing the internet to verify and transfer licenses. That's the whole overblown "issue" the youtuber was pointing at. It was all for clicks.

[Jin_Sakai]

“The dude transferred his xbox one and smart delivery titles to a new console, then tried launching them offline to an xbox series sx set at "home console."

Except he also showed native Series X digitally downloaded games where some worked and some didn’t.

[NotoriousWhiz]

Every digital game that should work offline does work offline as long as you've accessed it at least once which if you've downloaded it, you've already done.

The reason it didn't work in the video is because his offline console wasn't set as his home console and then when he set it as his home console, he never went online to update the licenses.

[KingofBandits]

This might have something to do with Series X enhanced or native games are not on physical media. When you buy a XSX marked game you get the XB1 code to run on the disc then the game downloads the higher versions assets via MS's coined "Smart Delivery" realizing this has made me buy most of my third party games on PS5 as at least there I know the disc contains actual PS5 code

[Petebloodyonion]

Actually, it's not playing the game offline the problem it's during the install
Here's the response from MS to the video

"Some very precise clarifications when installing various types of content from discs
- OG Xbox/Xbox 360. Need to be online to install as the disc is just a key that allows you to download the game and emulator (same as on Xbox One).
- Xbox One games. Need to be online one-time during install to download specific config files (separate from actual game patches).
- Smart Delivery games. Depends on how much is actually on the disc; if the X|S version is on the disc, then can install offline, but if it is a stub only, then the Smart Delivery portion is delivered as an upgrade patch. This does a hybrid install using bits from the disc and bits from Xbox Live.
- Native X|S games. Can install offline."

[DJStotty]

@petebloodyonion

The only one that read and understood, what the developer said, all it is is a licensing issue upon installation of said games, if you install ANY game and verify the license via xbox live/download any required BC settings, you can then play said game offline.

It is right there in the developer notes, this is becoming Everest out of an ant farm.

[DOMination-]

This whole story came about because last week someone on NeoGAF posted about their issues with Mass Effect Legendary Edition. Of course, most of the problem comes from EA only putting half the game on the discs.

People just need to get over digital licensing. Next gen will be digital only anyway on consoles and this is how it works. Jump in or go away, just stop moaning about it

[littletad]

You need to play online once when you are transferring your licenses and have just done a new transfer to a new Xbox. You are basically registering your license again for your digital titles, mainly. The issue was overblown though and the youtuber basically was stating you can't play your games offline. This issue is brought up multiple times every year and Microsoft doesn't exactly have this on their frontpage or in their manuals, so yes it is a little confusing. But there is a dedicated page for learning how to transfer your data and licenses on their web pages, but they just don't promote it better. Hence the "confusion". Consider this, when you buy a digital title, you are ONLINE. So the same thing has to be done when you're removing one license and adding it onto a new console. You can't just swap your proof of purchase on a drive and then you're ready to play. Technically a physical copy is good to go, but without updates or patches, which might make some games unplayable. As this new article stated, setting your xbox to "HOME" fixes most issues, but you still need to transfer those licenses by launching the game online once. Just like when you bought it digitally.

[darthv72]

looking over all of this, it isnt that different than what has been happening since the 7th gen. 360, ps3 and wii all had their own methods for transferring licenses from one system to another. And all of them required you to be online for a moment to complete the transfer.

So obviously if you are offline and you move a hdd full of digital games between systems, there is no way for them to validate and activate on the new system. This is common knowledge but somehow everyone all of a sudden forgets this.

the only way to fix this is to stop tying the license to the system but instead tie it to the profile. then any system you sign in to could then be able to acquire the license history and you could play any game offline so long as the profile exists.

[DJStotty]

@littletad

Exactly, some people on here do not understand DRM on any console, and what would happen when transferring games/licenses to a new console.

If systems like this were not in place, i could just install 100 games to a hard drive, and clone that hard drive over and over and over, for all those gamers offline.

DRM has been a thing since the 90's, same happens with software when you transfer to a new hard drive on a PC, you need to re-verify the software license.

[Z501]

"Are people expecting Xbox and Xbox 360 games to work right out of a package box onto an Xbox one or Xbox series x?"

Isn't that what BC is supposed to do?
OR
Everyone is suppose to know it's emulation?

I rarely hear the term emulation when it comes to the XSX. It's ALWAYS bc.

[Vits]

Basically the way the backward compatible games are managed right now require the user to connect to the internet at least once to make them playable offline. That is a issue for a number of reasons but mainly because, as most games are currently cross-gen (meaning they have the Xbox one version on the disc) a lot of them will simple not work out of the box without a internet connection.

So in the future if servers were down people wouldn't be able to activate any Xbox One/Series games. Then there is a argument that the console itself would be useless as it also require a connection for the first time setup.

[littletad]

Are people expecting Xbox and Xbox 360 games to work right out of a package box onto an Xbox one or Xbox series x? Microsoft BC works through emulation for past generations. I thought this was common knowledge? Of course, it requires a one-time internet connection to obtain game data/save files from the cloud. How else would you purchase a digital game without the internet? This "clever" youtuber is trying to play smart delivery or xbox one digital titles on a series x without license transfer and vice versa. Of course you are going to see the errors he saw. That's not DRM, that's a failure to transfer licenses properly

[Vits]

@littletad

The issue is not Xbox or Xbox 360 games though. But rather Xbox Series S/X native games that are sold with the Xbox One versions on the disc. As those games will not work out of the box either.

I do agree that as of right now is not a particulary big issue as the console is new and you need a internet connection to even make the first set up. However when it eventually become "retro" we might see some issues.

[Profchaos]

It's more impacting xsx owners at the end of the generation after another 10 or so years if the servers that support xsx are shuttered than a large portions of games become unplayable.
Basically anything at this stage marked as smart delivery requires an internet connection to download the xsx version.

The Xbox Dev advised this will change over time as xsx becomes the lead platform but right now having physical media will not mean you can just put a disc in and play and in 20 years those smart delivery games could become paperweight.

The view of guys like mvg often focus on preservation which is where his concerns come from.

[CaptainHenry916]

Are you kidding me? Did you really watch the video 🤔😃😂

[GamingSinceForever]

I was playing Doom Eternal on the PS5 the other day which I bought digitally and I had to turn off the network connection because it would not let me start the game without signing in to Bethesda. Maybe an hour or so after playing my game locked up and I was required to connect to the network so that my license could be verified. Not sure if this has happened to anyone else but it sure caught me by surprise.

[343_Guilty_Spark]

That DRM article was complete BS.

[Deathdeliverer]

So when I got my series x I posted that I had hell playing anything. The servers were crashing, connection errors abound on launch day, and more. I tried to play my disc Forza Horizon 3 or 4, don’t remember which cause it’s stuck in my dead Xbox one, and I couldn’t even play that. Good to have a little insight into some of that after all this time. Not to mention this little tid bit, quick resume didn’t work either. Weird af, I know, but without connecting to live quick resume did not work. Makes me want to try it today in light of all this. Anyway, it’s nbd for me as if it’s one thing I MUST have in my house it’s internet and my gamepass ultimate is paid up. One thing though that is sort of alarming and please keep your eyes out.... Microsoft was up front about drm on Xbox one and got annihilated for it. Now they snuck it right past us. They tried a $50 price hike and was annihilated for it. Incrementally, attached to some features that was originally planned to be basic but the people want it, something... somehow Microsoft will revisit this price hike. This time, it won’t be in the open up front. Just like drm, it will be snuck right past us.
PlayStation does licensing checks too. It’s just not as restrictive.

[chiefJohn117]

Seem like a non issue

[Destiny1080]

microsofts official answer, "licensing is complex"

Playstation official answer, "put disc in, and play"

replace the cmos battery on a PS5, no need to connect to sony servers after install, your games will just work, its only a matter of time before your xbox collection becomes null and void

[Highrevz]

How are you going to restore licences for digital games on PS4/5 without a network. How are you going to download the files for a disk game without a network. You’re going to do it as normal because neither service is shutting down.

[franwex]

Basically you have to connect online at least one to validate the transfer. The games were acquired online already in the 1st place-so connecting once online isn’t too far fetched.

Otherwise game installed on external hdd could work with all Xbox consoles? I mean, I see their thinking.

Now once you validate the license and you must remain online to play offline games-that’s a different issue. If that’s what’s occurring-then yes. They must fix this.

[Inverno]

Not sure why we even need DRM in an already closed ecosystem like consoles, or even PC really. We are buying the game, what even needs to b protected?

[Orchard]

"We are buying the game, what even needs to b protected"

It's not to protect against you, it's to protect against those not buying the game ;)

[Inverno]

Which those who aren't buying the games and instead are pirating can and have completely bypassed every form of DRM thrown at them. So my question still stands. What're they protecting? Cause I'm buying the game, and the other guy wont either way so it's clear that this is just a way of taking ownership from us rather than protecting anything. I'm not sure how in 2021 this hasn't been corrected or how people don't seem to understand and even against it. We need to start demanding ownership of what's clearly ours, that's how transactions have always been. So why is digital distribution so anti consumer?

[Orchard]

I mean, that is a totally fair argument on PC and I 100% agree - Steam at least does a decent job of being non-intrusive for the most part.

Console is a bit different, if someone did find a way to pirate/copy games on an Xbox Series (or PS5), requiring the console to go online eventually would also force the person to update the console, which would then fix the exploit - PC doesn't really have that option since someone would just also patch out the online check, and there's no OS update to push that will stop them pirating.

Not saying I necessarily agree with DRM, but this is why both MS and Sony have done this to various levels since 360 & PS3.

If you wanted to hold on to your exploit you'd effectively get stuck on an old version of the OS which won't run new games and would have to stay 100% offline - and that isn't realistic for 99.999% of people.

But overall I agree, it's 2021 and there must be better solutions to this, as well as making ownership more clear - especially as digital becomes more and more prevalent.

[Vizigoth04]

As PS guy primarily I really don’t see this as a big deal. I know that’s not a popular opinion. But I’d wager 80% of gamers are not worried worried about this one bit. Maybe if we were still in the PS2/Xbox era but we’re not. These consoles are tethered to network access for these reasons.

[TheHan]

Though I’m happy he brought this up. It’s always been my biggest concern as we move into the future with “digital” purchases. Everyone should have the rights to their properties no matter what, this is a infringement on people’s ownership.

[nibblo]

I don't think many people here actually read what OscarK wrote in reply to the video

[bleedsoe9mm]

resetera threads classify as stories now lol

[Christopher]

Official comments on the console from platform developers are news no matter where they are found.

[XiNatsuDragnel]

Just remove DRM Microsoft nuff said

[Sayai jin]

They need to be called out. This DRM needs to be removed..period.

[anast]

They are DRMing their live service boxes hard. Watch the sales drop again. This is funny.

[neomahi]

Um.... It is. DRM basically says youre only renting a game indefinitely until the corporation decides to take it away from you, or block it. Lame....

[2ndhandcorn]

Hope i can source a series x soon , have not had much time to play atm.

[Father__Merrin]

Increasing live prices Spencer backs down...
Always on drm will Spencer back down....

[DJStotty]

Like i said in the other thread, it is simply a bug in the BC/Smart delivery licensing.

Native S and X games can be installed and played offline.

[DJStotty]

"With regard to the portion of the video about digital content, the user first attempts to launch pre-installed digital content whilst offline. This fails for the same reason as it would have done on Xbox One, PS4 or PS5 in that the console is not set as the "Home console" (primary console for PlayStations). The main difference between Series X|S and PS5 is that we chose not to automatically change a user's Home console, whereas Sony chose to set your first ever PS5 as primary even if already have a primary PS4.

Once the user in the video did set their console as Home, they continued to have errors for some games whilst offline. The reason for this was the one-time connection required for compatibility.
More specifically, the first time an installation of a game is played on a particular console, a registration step occurs; this is multi-step process which involves decryption of the package header, download of metadata, provisioning of any additional storage space that the game requires for temporary files. For Xbox One BC games on Series X|S, this is also when a one-time internet connection is required for compatibility bits. To the user, they briefly see a "Getting things ready..." dialog which self-dismisses after a few seconds (decryption is the primary use of time here)."

Hope this helps educate about licensing, and what is happening in regards to the "doomsday offline" scenario presented earlier.

Great read from an actual developer in response to the youtube video.

[thesoftware730]

Nothing to see here, we can move on now as its been cleared up many different times in tis thread.

Cant wait to see Horizon 2 this week...I think we will get a good look at 'The big Leap' in new-gen graphics with this game.

[TheLigX]

Ms has been trying to get away with this for a long time.

[foker]

Still pretty phucked up you cannot use the system without going online first,.. This is pretty damn bad,.. and I thought facebook account for VR was phucked up,..