In the ongoing court drama between Epic Games vs. Apple, new documents have emerged that suggest that Epic Games approached Sony for first-party exclusives.
Yeah, that is pretty low for 4-6 Sony games. Given that Gearbox got $140M for Boderlands 3 alone.
I’m surprised Sony haven’t purchased Epic Games by now. They keep investing in them and spam the “what’s new” section with Fortnite stuff. That’s literally the first thing I see every time I turn on PS5.
Literally zero chance of that happening. Epic games is at about 30bn in valuation, so about 1/4 of Sony’s (assuming they sold at market value, which they wouldn’t). And their Epic investments have been small compared to other companies with about 1%. Heck I don’t think even Microsoft would spend 30bn+ on a gaming acquisition. It’s more likely that Tencent buys them - they already own 40% of Epic.
“Epic games is at about 30bn in valuation, so about 1/4 of Sony’s (assuming they sold at market value, which they wouldn’t).“ I said “by now” meaning in the past before Epic was worth as much as they are today. “It’s more likely that Tencent buys them - they already own 40% of Epic.” That’s all we need is Chinese owned Tencent gobbling them up.
@Jin_Sakai I don't see Tencent coughing up their shares they own in Epic over to Sony that easily and I doubt Tim Sweeney will either. Only ways they might dump their shares is if Epic is bleeding money not turning a profit and out of desperation to recoup the losses is dump Epic to the highest bidder. Or is if Tencent had enough enough of video games and decided to invest else where and again dump their shares to the highest bidder. Or if Tim Sweeney had enough wanted to retire he would sell of his shares and most likely Tencent will absorb his shares and pay him out.
I have to give credit to Ali Hader at Twisted Voxel for being first multiple times on disseminating the court documents in the Epic vs Apple case and putting them out into a story, good stuff.
You think Sony has enough cash to purchase Epic? Think again. Epic buys Playstation (not the entire Sony) has a much, much higher chance of happening if Epic want to go that route.
King_Noctis You can't be serious. Epic buying PlayStation? You do know PlayStation is bigger than epic and is bigger than Nintendo and Xbox. PlayStation generates more revenue, sells more software and makes a bigger profit than epic, Nintendo or Xbox. If epic wants to go that route haha like they can force Sony to sell PlayStation. I know you dislike PlayStation man but atleast stay in the realm of possibility And why would Sony or anyone buy epic? What important IP's do they own? Buying studios is all about IP's. You think ms would pay 7.5 billion for Bethesda if they didn't have fallout and ES?
I find it very unlikely that anyone could buy Epic. Not only because how valuable they are, but because of how divided the shares are. Sweeney is unlikely to sell his majority stake in the company and Tencent owns almost all the rest. Though there are a shaking happening right now. Thanks to the Apple lawsuit and Tencent issues with the US government. And depending of the result. I could see a bigger fish gobbling a part of Epic. But my first bet would be Microsoft and not Sony.
I believe if Epic was up for sale Microsoft would outbid Sony for it. Just to bring the Epic Store under Microsoft as well as Unreal engine. Microsoft would never let Sony outbid them. If you think they wanted iD tech, Unreal has huge market value. Its everywhere.
@neturalgamer “ You do know PlayStation is bigger than epic and is bigger than Nintendo and Xbox.” You do know Nintendo worth $95 billion right? You know how much Playstation worth? $45 billion. https://mddailyrecord.com/n... https://mddailyrecord.com/p... “ And why would Sony or anyone buy epic? What important IP's do they own?” You do know that Fortnite made more than $9 billion in revenue in its first two years right? Which Playstation exclusive game made that much money in its first two years in the market? https://www.theverge.com/20...
Buying out other companies isn't and shouldn't be the solution to everything. Hell the company I worked for was bought out by a bigger one and in my experience it always sucks. The bigger company slowly sucks out everything that made the purchased company unique until it's cold, generic and bland like the bigger one. IMO buyouts shouldn't be a thing.
I don't even know the numbers but I'm pretty sure they can't afford it.
@Jin_Sakai What does Chinese or Japanese have to do with anything? you seriously think epic would be in better hands if they were bought by MS?? 🙄 Please....
Yeah maybe per game 🤣😑✌🏻 They ain’t getting 4-6 for that money unless they wanted knack 1/2 😑🤣✌🏻
Borderlands 3 was a brand new game, that kind of deal costs a lot more. This offer was in regards to Sony porting existing first party exclusives to PC. I'm not saying I think the offer is good or not.
That could hold water for almost any publisher. But definitely not for Sony that treats all of their PC ports as brand new games with a full price tag to boot. So $200M for 4-6 ports is a completely unrealistic expectation from Epic even more if they were expecting a full year of exclusivity.
Oh, thank you for clarifying now the title makes sense.
King And your point is what? 45 billion just got playstation. Sony's worth is 121 billion. And you do know the the popularity of FN has been going down last 4-6 months right? That's still one game but one huge game. Your original statement was epic could buy PlayStation if they wanted to. Actually you said it has a big chance of happening. How they are worth 30+ billion? How can a company that's worth 30 billion force a company that's worth 4 times more than them to sell? If that statement is true than I guess epic can buy Xbox and Nintendo too right especially xbox since without ms money it wouldn't even survive
*Epic wanted some Sony exclusives to help their store. *Microsoft most likely were/are in talks to bring their games to Steam. *There's no way Game Pass would be on Steam. That would cut into Valve's profits. That rumor sounds ridiculous. It's possible like the other offerings. But I wouldn't do it as a business. Epic had definitely been busy. Funny thing is that it would be Tencent, a Chinese company, raking in the money by owning 40% of Epic. Just making that company bigger. Epic should just stick with making game development easy for the gaming community. Especially with the impressive Meta Humans and UE5. All this other stuff they jumped into just makes them look desperate and shady at the same time. Not a good look.
Game Pass on Steam would be a dream ticket for me. Valve and Microsoft cutting deals to allow me to use Game Pass on their platform with a big selection of Steam games and not the super limited Microsoft Store. I'd buy 3 years full price if Microsoft and Steam collaborated on that level.
At that point I'd assume Valve would simply roll out their own service, honestly. There's been no news to show, but I'd be really surprised if it's not being thrown around internally already.
Why would Steam not allow Gamepass? Like the argument that ppl don't buy Microsoft games because Gamepass has been debunked by Steam since MS games like Sea of Thieves, Halo, etc. are selling quite well on Steam at the current price despite being available on Gamepass on the same PC. And I'm pretty sure that the average JOE who plays PC games on PC knows that you can buy a game from Epic games store, Windows, etc. and it will still play on the same PC So yeah perhaps the PC version of Gamepass could happen and MS could give Valve some exclusivity of MS games in the VR space.
So who’s been buying the Microsoft games on Steam like the millions of Sea of Thieves copies sold on the platform?
It's as Derek said and I implied, too many of you on Xbox say that game pass saves you money. How exactly? You know the answer. You don't have to buy games individually. If that came to Steam, individual sales would diminish leading into less profits. Unless Valve was cut in on those profits that Microsoft would be making. I don't know how much they get from uplay and EA access. But obviously they do being that they are being offered. I said above that it's possible because of those other services. But I wouldn't do it. The Colbertinator is directly saying he'd jump on it in a heart beat. Meaning, he would save money by having games bundled in a service instead of buying games. It cuts into sales. If all gamers were in a subscription service, the money made today would be less because it's shared and divided amongst developers. And because of that, some games wouldn't even be made because it wouldn't be profitable to make them. Not unless the service provider paid the full amount for development. It's unlikely that that would be the case for all developers. So, it is not worth it to some developers. Do you see RE8 on game pass? No. It's not worth it to Capcom. Is Returnal on PS Now? No. It's not worth it to Sony. No company wants to lose money. Because it leads gamers into not buying new games. Just like streaming services have lead into less sales for DVD and Blu-ray. Look it up. It's "Common sense." Why do we have to keep educating you guys to the truth?
“So yeah perhaps the PC version of Gamepass could happen and MS could give Valve some exclusivity of MS games in the VR space.”🤦🏿 🤯 🤪 hey Pete what alternate dimensions did you dropped from that Microsoft got games in the VR space.
@Shadow I'm grateful for your teaching since I love learning new stuff related to economics Now I'm sure you will be able to explain in details the source of your truth cause it was sure not in the Costco success model that is often explained in marketing and sales courses (I copy some quick link to refresh your memory) https://ethicsunwrapped.ute... or watch this video https://www.youtube.com/wat... Now just letting you know that a lot of this stuff is used by Sony, Steam, Amazon, Apple, and MS who basically are giving cheap stuff and making huge sales to have you spend more $ in the store than you would normally do (buying 4 games for 100$ instead of 1 at 60$). Now I know that this example is pretty basic 101 and not as advance as your teaching from the lessons of your dreams but just please answer this simple question. If 1 month of Gamepass is 1 item in the Steam inventory just as a 60$ game is 1 item (and both cost 0$ money to Steam since it's digital goods) then how does Steam is losing money if he succeeds in making you buy the same item 12 times vs the 1 game at 80$ during the year? Bonus Question Why does Sony allow Free to play games, give you 2 games per month via PS+, gave 10 PS4 games for free (play at home), and gave 18 Ps4 in the PS+ collection when you bought a Ps5? surely this dumb move would prevent ppl from buying games at 70$ like Spider-man or Returnal since they already have so many games to play at the moment. Ps, You have still not answered the question of Who bought the millions of Sea of thieves games sold at a premium price on Steam in the 1st month of Steam launch last year? https://news.xbox.com/en-us... @1Victor Do they need to make a game in VR? how about playing game pass in a big Xbox Vr playroom? Perhaps have some Steams VR games in a Gamepass catalog made for Steam Epic was ready to make a game for Sony PSVR2 in exchange for allowing crossplay Does Epic have a VR headset? And last I checked Minecraft Vr does exist on PSVR so again why would this be impossible?
Steam is in the business of selling games, not renting them.
wow thats not alot actually. given they paid 140 mio. for borderlands 3. im actually surprised by this.
Bruh this courtcase is becoming more interesting than E3
right? i mean .. e3 hasnt been interesting in a while, but that depends on who u ask i guess.
come on don't say THAT! MS was already banking on E3 this year and you just want to rain on their parade like that? so cruel LOL
Cheapskates, just like the majority of Epic Games Store users that are just there for free games and free to play Fortnite
If you think Sony giving Epic 4-6 games for 200$ is never gonna happen, then you really don't understand how corporations work
If you think it's happening for that price, you really don't understand value.
@galmi You're wrong. No way it happens at THAT price. A few days ago I made a comment about thanks to Epic having to expose who gets paid how much for their free games, now devs know their value and can barter against each other. As a result, one of the things that came out was Borderlands 3 fetching 143 million from Epic. So if you think Sony is going to give Epic 4-6 exclusives for $200 while Gearbox got 143 for ONE game you're out of your mind.
I agree. Common sense the guy above just doesn't see. But thinks he knows business.
I think you all are fundamentally missunderstanding this statement. We know Sony is planning on bringing more games to pc, epic was trying to entice Sony to sell their games exclusively on their platform, Sony makes more money on epic than they do on steam, so it’s 200mil, plus 88% on individual game sales. That’s a pretty good deal. We don’t know if valve would or is incentivizing Sony with a better deal. Even without the 200 million, it would make a lot of sense for Sony to partner with epic store for any pc releases.. they are invested in epic now, and they get a larger cut on sales than they would with steam. It makes a lot of sense. It’s exactly how corporations work.
No, it's really not a good deal.
@ShadowWolf712 I agree. No, it's not a good deal. Which is exactly why the deal didn't happen. Apparently ProLogY seems to know something about the deal that Sony doesn't lol
USD? 200 Million ain’t shit these days
Count down to a slow and steady “Epic” implosion. Grab your pop corn! Numbers seem big, but these are desperate grabs in a world of burnt bridges. You may as well let some big mouthed ignorant dopey youtube influencer lead this company to ruin. Ethics...seriously stand for something. I mean, look at them work this from any and every angle. This is NOT for the love of gaming or their base. F these epically $$$ driven asshats. They don’t deserve your money.
Epic has horrible app... its laging and unresponsive, they should first invest some money into it and have atleast some kind of reviews there from users
And they offered MS 1 dollar per exclusive.
Well, I can see why that did not go through. It’s a bit of a low ball.
Exactly, Especially when Epic had to expose Borderlands 3 got Gearbox 143 million. Epic is not going to have a single ally in the industry once this court case is done.
Or, more like companies will be doing some hard negotiating with Epic in the future. They inadvertently caused a price hike for anything they want to get in the future from others. It's like they just shot themselves in the foot with the most powerful Unreal Tournament gun: the "REDEEMER."
@ApocalypseShadow Yeah, I can see that happening too. If companies don't start freezing them out, they'll definitely take them for all their worth. Going forward, Epic shouldn't expect ANY company to work with them in good faith.
their UE4 and UE5 though...they already have so many devs under lockdown with those engines licensing alone! like it or hate it, UE is having a tight grip on the industry as a whole
@badz149 Yeah but they aren't the only programming engine out there. This isn't the way it was in the PS3 and 360 era, where they had everyone under lock and eye. Frostbite, Havok, Luminus and a host of others are becoming more and more prominent. Not to mention some of the bigger companies are starting to use their own in-house tech. Epic's UE is still big, you're right there. But they don't have the deathgrip they once did.
Blah blah blah blah!
A lot of people may not know it but tencent is cancer for the industry and epic is gonna be its first major victim. Though the only ones to oppose them will be Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft, as long as they don’t sell out... though Sony should’ve demanded more for their games.
Lmao gee I wonder why they refused. I’d be willing to bet days gone cost at least 75 million alone to be on steam and that’s hardly being generous.
I hate Epic so much for their greedy practices.
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