Jason says, "I reiterate everything in a word: frustrating. But not without merit. The gameplay is rife with all the things that tear a hole in your soul for simply wanting to enjoy a game. So while the story, cinematics, and overall presentation of the game shine quite well, playing the game hurts you where the sun don’t shine. Somewhere out there are hardcore fans that will tell me, “git gud” whilst speedrunning a level in about 15 minutes while the rest of us normal people will take about an hour. I’m just glad I’m not on of those people because it would be clear I love punishing myself."
PS blog:
Skyrim, Rainbow Six Siege, Kingdom Hearts III, The Division 2, Chorus, The Gardens Between.
Today we’re happy to reveal the November Game Catalog lineup for PlayStation Plus. These games will be available starting November 15.
Wow. That's a lot of games. Still no PSP, PS1, or PS2 titles though....................
Yeah, but they are only putting back what was originally on PS Now in the first place. This isn't worth the Premium Tier as of right now. They need to do a lot better on their legacy consoles titles
Insane lineup! Was actually thinking of getting back into Skyrim and always wanted to give Division 2 a go but never around it.
Umm if you want to “get back into” Skyrim wouldn’t that mean you already own it? I mean like 95% or the human population owns a copy of that game in some format.
I’m just confused as to how you’re excited to get back into it when you could literally buy the game for $5-10 for years now. The Division 2 has also been $10 for a while now.
Your excitement just seems a little inauthentic and cheesy. If you really wanted to play those games you could have by now and for dirt cheap.
Haha alright, alright. Let me elaborate, sweety 😉
Last time I played Skyrim was back when it originally appeared on the PS3, so going back to it would feel like somewhat of a fresh experience, with better graphics ofcourse. Also never touched the DLC so that's a plus!
Since I have a full-time job and value my social life a lot, I don't have all the time in the world to try out every game I'm curious about. The Division 2 did spark my interest but since I was pretty disappointed by the first one I decided to give other games more priority. But now that I've got some time off from work and Sony is offering it through Plus, I might as well give it a shot. No way I'm able to finish it but that's ok.
Also, Im a big sucker for the old Kingdom Hearts games, so happy for anyone that's gonna give them a try.
Wether you agree with me or not, don't let it ruin your day, alright?
Man PS Extra just isn't impressing me. I dont care that there's no big AAA games releasing day one on the service but the stuff they are adding is just old filler. I've played already.
Gamepass games might not all appeal to everyone but at least they give a broad mix of new games. Road 96, Echo Generation, Turtles, Streets of Rage, Signalis, Ghost Song, Somerville. They're all great additions.
Sony should have made some deals to bring the likes of F.I.S.T. RollerDrome and Inscryption to the service or games like them. Something of value.
I guess I got the wrong impression when they gave us Stray.
I feel the exact opposite. I have only played three of those games. I'm definitely taking advantage of this month.
What you are saying makes sense for you because you have bought so many games. This isn't the case for most people. Services like this are great for finding and trying ges we might have been apprehensive about in the past. I finally get to try Ghost Recon, Earth Defense Force and KH 2.8
I understand your point of view tho.
Echo Generation was an absolute blast to play. And I am enjoying Signalis at the moment, in between OW2 play. I definitely agree tho, the offerings for PS+ seem to be left overs from GP, they definitely need standout titles to make their service more appealing.
I guess if you don't have both consoles these would be some good games to play, but again, just as you stated, Sony should make more deals to bring games like similar to Stray to their service.
There is another option; buy what you want to play instead of relying on a service to grant you access. All the games you mentioned are available for purchase. Sony is already granting a lot for only 120 yearly, that is equivalent to buying two games. Be grateful....
I have bought those games. Well with the exception of Rollerdrome, I havent got that yet. And I have a library of over 800 games so you don't need to worry about my spending habits. I'm just saying the value just isn't there in the service for me. I find they do fantastic with the choices of games for PS Essential but Extra is disappointing and Premium is a joke. They really did just rebrand PSNow and there's no extra effort being made here. As it is, if my sub was up this month I wouldn't renew it
Cool story bro, but I assure you that your spending habits are of no concern. While every person has their own taste, what stands out to me is the fact that you have 800 games but are complaining about what one serve offers over another.
I have well over 10k games but there is always an opportunity to discover and purchase more. Sony has one of the richest libraries acrossed several platforms so they don't need to offer more "appealing" games as they often just sell those. What sense would it make to give what's willing to be bought? GP has to appeal more because they're both losing market share and have a community of thrifty gamers. With a despondent economy of gamers you can't risk not offering everything to keep them engaged.
For now. Stray was a day 1 release for instance. So was shadow warrior 3
It's a great game! I got equally excited for Clid the Snail but that was a dissapointment.
Your opinion is the exact opposite of mine. I think the value of PSPlus is higher for my style of gaming.
Replies(1)Sony needs to just come out and address the state of PS1/PS2/PSP classics to the public.
I paid $28 in June to test out the premium. But it looks like I won't be renewing for $120 in Dec.
You do have a point. I want more classics. There loaded ps1 ps2 wise. Whats the deal. I still think the service is on par with gamepass where everything stands right now. But i need sone of those classic titles.
The Oddworld: Soulstorm PS Plus deal turned out to be "devastating" for the developer after it was downloaded nearly 4 million times.
You don't say. /S
As I've said before with Microsoft, which includes Nintendo and Sony. Day one sounds great with a lot of "players." But if no one is BUYING the game, services and subscriptions can hurt a game. Smaller developers need to learn this now. Big companies get big checks like Capcom or EA. Companies like Square with Guardians expect big sales. Then, when they fail, they talk about how great subscriptions are to get a fat check. It will hurt them too if gamers start to expect their games to always be on a service if they keep releasing them there.
Developers look for long tail money even if they get a lump some of money. That check can come back and bite you in the ass. Sales are important. I don't know why some don't get this. I can see games releasing later on a service. But not at launch unless you're getting more money than what you expected to make in a check and pays for development.
Sales over subscriptions.
And yet games like Halo and Forza still sell by the truck load on Steam and not on Game Pass. If you make a good game it will sell regardless if it's "free" on a service.
Oddworld was mediocre and likely would have made less money than whatever Sony paid them. Subscriptions are the future of gaming wether you like it or not.
The thing is, Lorne is looking at all those downloads and is thinking about how many they could have potential sold. Other games sold during the pandemic. He now wants those sales after getting paid by Sony.
So, how about trying to sell your game first before taking a check? You'll find you might sell something. But now he's bitter that 4 million played it but didn't buy it as he expected only a couple of 100 thousand.
If more companies rely on the service and the check, more are going to be bitter that they didn't get those sales. And even more bitter when gamers expect their games to always be on the service.
But they might have only sold 5 copies if they didn't go on PS+.
For all we know not a single one of those 4ml gamers planned to ever purchase the game, now that they have played they may be more interested in future games or any expansions for it.
If they were so confident in their game they would never have done the deal, there is a reason why games like GTA aren't day 1 on Game Pass.
Halo Infinite and FH5 would have sold many, many more copies if there were no Game Pass. That's silly to think otherwise.
Also if subscriptions are the future then gaming is headed for a hard crash and when and if that day does arrive then it'll be the death of truly great games.
Nope. Halo and forza didn't sell big. Weren't even number one on charts worldwide... Microsoft used the trick of played games...
@SuperStan83 I'd wager Steam population is mostly MP f2p gamers, back on release day, the Xbox App for PC wouldn't download the game properly so many of us were forced to get it on Steam.
Oddworld is a great game, although it never had a big following to begin with. The problem is gamers today's just play what's popular and nothing else.
You only have to go through trophies and achievements to see how little gamers play games or different types of games.
Unfortunately today alot of the new gen gamers are quite happy with buying a console and just playing f2p with MT purchases all gen without really buying anything else.
Halo sells even if it is jank. People new Halo Inf. was going to be a bad game and they bought it anyway. Oddworld never had that kind of blind following of people that like to be taken advantage of.
In all likelihood people wouldn't have purchased the game no matter if it was on a subscription or not. I personally purchase lots of games that are on game pass, so I don't think your analysis holds much water. Sales over subscriptions? Give me demos day one then.
i Downloaded the game on PS and i played it like 1 hour and dropped it. Deleted it after that. Game was not good.
It's the same argument people use against piracy.
1 Download =\= 1 Sale. More likely for every 10 people that download maybe 1 of those would actually purchase. Although for a game with as dated of a premise and core gameplay loop as oddworld I'd guess that's probably closer to 1 sale out of every 1000 downloads.
@ApocalypseShadow
"I can see games releasing later on a service. But not at launch unless you're getting more money than what you expected to make in a check and pays for development."
That´s exactly what happened in case you din´t bother to check the source. The developers where expecting to sell about 50K copies on early days of PS5. Sony paid double (100k), turn out the game was a huge success and was downloaded for 4 million PS Plus users and, now, we have this developer crying over how money he could made if not for his incompetence, miscalculations and lack of trust in his own game.
It´s not a matter of subscriptions be good or bad. it´s a matter of how skilled you are to sell your product to a big company like Sony. You can "win" you can "lose". This is capitalism.
Seems like a weird situation. Of course there are going to be a lot of downloads on a service with tens of millions of users.
They expected 50K? Why? Based on what? Seems like an extremely low number. Would 50K sales have returned a notable profit?
4million Downloads doesn't mean playing it. I've completed oddword but if you go through oddworld trophy list it's embarrassing how so little ps5 owners actually played it.
Most trophy percentages are 0.1% yes that right 0.1% hell crafting your 1st recipe is only 5.1% and that's very early on in the game ffs.
@EvertonFC
These are the sort of metrics they should be looking at, not how many downloaded it (or just added to the library). If only 5% of people got that early of a trophy, that's about 200k. I bet a lot of those wouldn't have played if it wasn't free. Their original expectations probably aren't very far off.
@Obscure
Exactly, at the time the money they received would have benefited them at the beginning of the PS5 launch. Then having to delay the actual game and release later is what hurt them.
What the OP fails to mention is how developers are getting paid a good amount of money to have their games on services.
Another point that no one seems to be mentioning is what's happening in today's gaming market, that developers now need this sort of help to get exposure, especially if it's a niche title or a new IP. How development costs for new hardware is so astronomical that they have to make these deals in order to cover themselves.
And even then, the market is so fragile that anything that could go wrong could kill the bottom line, as what happened to this developer.
This was seriously a case of bad circumstances for this developer and has ZERO to do with this stale arguement that gaming subscription services hurt developers.
@dumahim
Exactly. I stopped doing this because the Xbox Hames With Gold has gone down hill since Gamepass (which I subscribe to), but I use to “collect” all the games with gold, even if I had no intention of playing the game. It was free and I figured why not have it in my collection just in case I wanted to play it some day.
@gangsta_red
"Another point that no one seems to be mentioning is what's happening in today's gaming market, that developers now need this sort of help to get exposure, especially if it's a niche title or a new IP. How development costs for new hardware is so astronomical that they have to make these deals in order to cover themselves."
Yes. They got the money to cover their expenses (or a good part of it) for a timed exclusive deal. After that, they were free to go wherever they like. Nintendo, Xbox, PC... etc, and make more money.
4 Million "downloads" doesn't mean 4 Million plays, and it certainly doesn't mean 4 Million sales.
Give me something free and I'll add it to my library. Doesn't mean I'm every going to play it.
***Another point that no one seems to be mentioning is what's happening in today's gaming market, that developers now need this sort of help to get exposure, especially if it's a niche title or a new IP. How development costs for new hardware is so astronomical that they have to make these deals in order to cover themselves.***
This is very true. Look at Weird West. It has only hit 400k players total, even though it's on GamePass and has been reviewed pretty well. And, as a person who's playing through only chapter 3 of the game out of 5, very very few of those people are playing very far into the game right now.
I think subscription services are great for Indies more so than any AAA game out there. Especially unique titles and niche market elements that are trying to reach wider audiences.
"As I've said before with Microsoft, which includes Nintendo and Sony. "
In MS case we hear mainly good things about games going on the service.
I'm seeing an opposite of what you say. Games are being more successful in services like gamepass. I know i cant be the only one who actually buys games because I tried them in GP. And in the case of this particular game, I claimed it when it was part of + AND I also bought the steelbook day one edition. I didnt buy it because of + however, I wanted the steelbook case so... I bought it.
What this guy has an issue with is he was only paid a portion of what he could have gotten had he negotiated better. Im sure there are clauses in the contract about either you get a lump sum amount up front or you take a small cut of the proceeds from number of downloads that are made. And he chose the first one. It's the same with streaming services like disney+ and new releases. Some actors negotiate for a percentage of the box office sales but the smart ones also nab a little extra from the streaming side as well.
Agree on your points for the most part but I have to say has the developer gone through there trophy percentages ? Cause the data would show very little played it.
I finished it personally and thought it was great but 5.1% only crafted there 1st recipe? Like wtf and most percentages for the game trophies sit at 0.1% (yes I know it's a hard game)
The trophy percentages tells all imo, gamers didn't like it cause they only want f2p these days mainly.
This game would have bombed at the end of the day and let's be realistic, it's never been a popular game really which is sad cause it came out when ps5 launched so I would have expected gamers to try it more or played more if it.
A) Studios get paid to be and are incentivized to be on gamepass... obviously. who would just give a brand new game away for free with nothing to gain. Rarely do developers pay to be on Gamepass unless they want more exposure - usually smaller indie studios... cuz its been proven by market research that Gamepass does in fact increase exposure.
B) game sales for games featured in gamepass usually increase (easy to find with a simple google search. hint: more market exposure).
C) Most game developers praise gamepass saying it as enabled a broader audience of exposure - people that might not have considered certain games have more incentive/less risk to try those games.
D) This is not an apples to apples comparison. This has a bad deal coupled with bad timing of a pandemic and also low stock of console supply
E) gamepass has generated more revenue for DLC and expansions for games that were downloaded thru gamepass
F) the reason gamepass even exists and why Sony is charging $70 minimum for their exclusives is because the current pricing mode/ROI for making high cost development games isn't always enough. This is also why Sony is buying studios to launch online games as services. When accounting for inflation - game prices have actually declined. At the time of the Super Nintendo - it was common for a game to cost $80, while the cost to produce the games was a fraction of what it is now.
G) you can still buy games as a gamepass subscriber - in fact you get the games (and other games in the xbox store) at a discount for being a subscriber
H) Forza Horizon 5, Halo Infinite and MS Flight Sim were all day one gamepass games (as well as psychonauts 2) and all of them sold by the millions even while being on gamepass - and people are still buying content for these games. I'm one of them.
I) Gamepass itself doesn't really generate much revenue from the actual service. It, like console hardware are basically sold at cost with the expectation that revenue will be generated from the software/content side - hence increasing overall revenue to ms and game developers.
J) Nobody is complaining about "owning" all the content they stream on Netflix or Hulu or Apple. and no content creators are complaining about having their stuff streamed on those services... cuz everyone is making money. Gamepass is no different.
You've missed several contextual points and boiled it down to an oversimplified apples to oranges comparison.
I’d argue that because it was free more people checked it out. That 4 mill doesn’t equate to how many people would have bought that game at full price and even then it was only free for a month. I highly doubt the game would have sold 4 mill.
To be fair I don’t really think many if any of those 4 million were going to buy it. Way better games haven’t sold as much in the past. Odd worlds a pretty niche genre of game
1 developer said it was bad vs the majority who have said it has been great for them. Guess Game Pass has better deals.
Agree 100% with old fashioned game ownership but the future is GamePass and PS+ just like how streaming took over TV , movies, and music. These services and consolidation will squeeze out smaller developers.
Someone didn't read the actual article.
The developer made a deal with Sony that would have benefited them at the time. In the beginning not many PS5's were on the market so a free dl from PS+ wouldn't have hurt their sales, but due to covid and the delays the game was released later when their were a lot more PS5's in the hands of gamers, therefore, the deal Sony made them wasn't as lucrative anymore and actually hurt the developer.
"As studio head Lorne Lanning told Xbox Expansion Pass, the developer estimated they would sell a maximum of 100,000 units at launch, although 50,000 was a more probable number. The money they would receive from the deal was more than they would make through those sales."
In the article it actually states how Sony (and along with MS and Nintendo) PAY developers a good amount of money to have their game on their services, enough so that it actually helps developmers sometimes. So I'm guessing sub services "supports the devs" as well as sales do right?
"With costs rising, Oddworld Inhabitants was looking for extra financial help. Sony offered the studio a deal to put Oddworld: Soulstorm on PS Plus as a free game for one month in exchange for an undisclosed fixed sum of money. "
Interesting, and yet I keep reading that games are put on these services for free and hurt the development of future games.
" I don't know why some don't get this."
I don't know why some don't actually read the situation and the circumstances that allowed this to happen. Instead another rant aimed at a sub service that actually benefits gamers as well as most developers.
You say sales over subscriptions but can anyone gaurantee high sales nowadays with such established IPs and power house F2P games in this day and age?
Seeing such a stretch like this does let me know though that the narrative of hating on sub services like GP, PSnow and such is getting thin.
I think realistically, any Oddworld game isn't going to sell more than 1m copies. probably a lot less. great games but very niche.
Sounds like they missed the mark on their projections. Sony isn't the most forthcoming on their analytics, but to only expect 50k in sales, regardless of the early install base, seems like an obvious miss from the dev team's leadership.
But hey, maybe they thought all of the "we support the devs" parrots were actually being truthful...
I downloaded it , but I never would have if it wasn't on plus , just like most games sony puts on plus
Funny thing is I still never played it and don't plan too either.
Correction: I added it to my library, I wouldn't use up my limited storage space ... not saying it's a bad game just not for me.
It’s one of the reasons I don’t sub to GP, I also buy my games because I prefer physical and I support the developer.
The game was also pretty lackluster, so it’s not like those 4 million downloads would’ve translated into sales.
I’m a huge Oddworld fan and the original PS games are still my favorite of all time but this game was terrible from every single angle. Not worth the download and 100% a no buy. It’s not fun at all and it’s a shame what they did to this series.
I'm the opposite, never got into the original games but this one I completed and enjoyed from start to finish.
Dam hard saving them fuc*kers though
I downloaded it and played it for a little bit but it didn't keep my attention. I wouldn't have bought it if it hadn't been on PS+.
Funny I download but check it out for 5 minutes, got bore didn't really feel like old Abe which I completed couple of times. If wasn't PS+ I wouldn't buy it in the first place.
This is why I agree with Sony's decision not to put their first party games on PS Plus on day one.
"This is why I agree with Sony's decision not to put their first party games on PS Plus on day one."
Interesting. Wonder if you would agree if other publishers decide to put their games day one on PS Plus.
I mean, how Sony intents to compete with Gamepass if all the big (and indie) third party publishers decide to follow them and make their games available on PS Plus 12+ months after release?
Ryan messages seems pretty confusing to me:
"We have big publishers, we have small indie publishers. We have over 200 partners working with us to put their content into PlayStation Plus, so the lineup is going to be really strong."
He defends a "really strong" lineup made up of old games? Is that it?
For me Ryan is playing his tricky games again and his statements are contradictory af.
"Doesn´t work for me, but it will work for you" :/
Most of Gamepass current lineup of games has been indies & low-budget titles. The last AAA XB exclusive that was released on GP is Halo Infinite & that was 4 months ago in 2021. There are no AAA XB exclusives releasing on GP for most of this year until November which is Starfield including that's 11 months & hopefully the game doesn't get delayed. The only current 2022 AAA multiplats released on GP is R6:Extractions & The Show 22,Guardians was released on GP last month but the game was released in Oct 2021. In my opinion, GP is just an okay average sub-service. Buying AAA exclusives & multiplats asap to own will always be a must in my book instead of relying on GP or PS Now.
"Most of Gamepass's current lineup of games has been indies & low-budget titles. The last AAA XB exclusive that was released on GP is Halo Infinite & that was 4 months ago in 2021."
Well care to mention to us the numerous great AAA games made by 3rd party publishers that were released recently
I'll start:
Elden ring
you continue
@Elda
Sorry if I'm not clear but what I mean is can you name us the great AAA game that was released (aside Elden Ring) from 3rd party publishers in the industry at large?
It's easy to say no big AAA was released on Gamepass since Halo when there's been almost nothing good released on all platforms (from 3rd party publishers) since last November.
@pete
They're talking about games released on Game Pass, dude. You're missing context.
I buy a game on release about once every 5 years. If games take a year or two to reach PS+, no issue for me. Let Sony enjoy day one sales from folks who don’t want to wait. I do believe we will see day one released for on-like multiplayer games. Many have already gone pseudo free to play on PS+.
Oh boy, many won't like to hear this 😂
But this is going to be the reality soon enough as subscription service will undoubtedly become the norm
I've amassed a huge 5 hours in two weeks on Elden Ring as I don't have the time to play. So that £40 purchase is going to last me a long time. I wouldn't begin to be able to make a subscription service as they currently stand worthwhile, but then these services will likely evolve in the coming years.
What's ironic is you probably won't like what the actual article is about. Has nothing to do with what you think about subscription services.
All it says is that they were worried about getting 100k in sales on other platforms because 4 million downloaded it but it doesn’t matter because they made more than that on the plus deal. It’s an article that contradicts its own usefulness and I wish I didn’t read it. Thanks for that.
Oddworld Soulstorm. A fresh narrative - a complete story retake inspired by the original tale.
As a massive fan of the original two Oddworld titles, let me say that New and Tasty was weak but SoulStorm is complete garbage. Unbalanced, unfun, and frustrating is just the start. The level based system is stupid, the collectibles are lazy and are not creative. The charm of the visuals are gone. The aiming system and weapons are wonky at best. The platforming is sloppy and the enemy AI is junk.
I had fun with it but to each their own. It was free and I got some good time out of it.
The original Abe’s Oddysee and Exoddus were phenomenally executed, dark, gritty, funny, and solid. The story was great, the cutscenes were the best on PS1, and the controls were perfect. The layout for secrets also were perfectly designed and the added depth and static scenes felt right.
New and Tasty destroyed the look and feel of Oddworld.
Now... I’m currently playing SoulStorm. It’s fine but it’s not Exoddus. It’s slow and action oriented. It’s not fluid when it should be and it has too much going on around every turn. Too many systems and the pacing throws off the originals flow. I like the game the more I pretend it’s not a reboot of a masterpiece.
The original two games were one fluid and perfectly crafted story. No remake needed.
Truthfully, they should have not remade Oddysee and then perhaps left this as the 3rd Quintology game for Abe. The vision is fine but I think Oddworld lost what made it special.