Jim Ryan is such a suit and a garbage one at it. He keeps stepping on PlayStation’s trajectory with his poor messaging. I’d hate for him to botch PSVR2 which looks to be an awesome new edition to PS5.
Jim Ryan by all standards has done a pretty good job since taking over as Head of PlayStation. The PS5 release has gone as well or better than expected and the PlayStation First Party is releasing really good AAA games with Demon's Souls remake and Spidy MM releasing along side of the ps5. Last week PlayStation FP released a multiplatform game that is doing very well and they'll be releasing another AAA game next week that happens to be a new IP and has been getting really good feedback so far. Sony is a public company and its stock price is close to as high as it ever been and PlayStation is the backbone of that success and nothing has changed since he took over. He may not be a smooth talker or the used car salesman that Microsoft has but which would you rather have.... A guy that gets the job done or snake oil saleman that has to fall back on his best line "wait till next year" over and over?
Nothing wrong with the latest messaging. PSVR strategic, exclusives important. I don't know why all the hate from some people. Maybe he just doesn't seem like someone that actually likes to play games?
I don't see any reason to hate him. PlayStation is still doing what they do best, even with this Damn endless pandemic. Also, I cannot wait for the psvr2! It is gonna be mind blowing! And take Ps gaming to the next level!
Besides Jim being supportive of the VR industry and console VR, I think gamers are going to be quite surprised when the names of the next PlayStation headset's games get announced.
We already have an idea on how they are going to look. But I think big name franchises like GTA, COD, GT, RE, Spider-Man, Battlefield, etc will be announced that can't and won't be ignored by the community.
Should be amazing along with those new controllers.
@Christopher It's good that Quest 2 has sold well but there's a few open questions there:
1. How many units? They just say it sold more than the past models combined, but we don't actually have numbers to work out if that's 10 mil or 100 mil.
2. How many of those purchases are mainstream gamers? It could be companies or people buying for other VR formats.
I'd also say VR is more popular on PC than console. I don't see a world where the norm is to go buy a games console, plug it into your TV and sit there in isolation with a VR headset on. PC gaming is more isolated so it makes sense, console gaming is typically done in a living room/media room around family etc. - that's where the struggle to become mainstream occurs.
PS4 has a huge install base, but only a small percentage bought a PSVR. I don't see this changing massively with PSVR2.
@inexpensivelion Except Sony aren't the only company doing VR... heck, I'm a huge HL fan, and would love to play more content, but still don't feel the need to buy a headset to play Alyx.
Spoken from someone that has no clue about VR. The idea is to grow the base beyond the gamers who are already onboard the VR train.
Gamers like myself already see what can be done on a base PS4 that's only 1.8 teraflops. Yeah. 1.8. PS5 is over 10 teraflops, will not be held back by base PS4, won't be held back by 10 year old controllers that didn't have analog sticks. And, will not be held back by HDD or disc. We're talking about SSD level developed games.
Gamers complain that there are no big titles. PSVR has already gotten big titles like RE, Skyrim and Hitman. With limited controls. Only a fool would think that only Indy companies are going to be making VR games for Sony. Some companies held back because of power and because of the controllers. The team that made Bone Works is 90% sure on a PSVR 2 release because Sony's headset will be at a level to port games across easily without sacrifice.
You can ignore VR. But it's not going away buddy. No matter how much you want to be a naysayer. It's entered business, realty, education, sports, job instruction etc besides gaming. You're the one that's still thinking it's a gimmick. Being ignorant about VR potential doesn't mean you'll stop it. And don't be mad that Microsoft isn't forward thinking like Sony. Being behind is Microsoft's MO.
"Spoken from someone that has no clue about VR. The idea is to grow the base beyond the gamers who are already onboard the VR train."
Spoken like a true business expert. The idea/business plan for a business/product is to grow its base beyond those who already own the device. Shocker.
The reason PSVR didn't sell through well is nothing to do with SSD's or teraflops... from what I've seen, the games ran just fine and loaded in similar amounts of duration as a non-VR game. To think suddenly everyone is going to want to sit in their living room with a headset over their face just because there are now 10TF instead of 1.8TF is naive at best.
"Gamers complain that there are no big titles. PSVR has already gotten big titles like RE, Skyrim and Hitman."
You've listed 3 games from the 2017-2021 period... one of those has no PSVR support in the sequel (RE), one of them had terrible controls (Hitman) and another is likely no longer coming to PS5/PSVR2 (Elder Scrolls). They were likely all funded somewhat by Sony too. That's hardly a great overview you've given there.
"You can ignore VR. But it's not going away buddy. No matter how much you want to be a naysayer. It's entered business, realty, education, sports, job instruction etc besides gaming. You're the one that's still thinking it's a gimmick."
I'm not the only one ignoring it/thinking it is a gimmick, the overwhelming majority of PS4 owners are also ignoring it and considering it a gimmick alongside me.
AR, and to a lesser extent, VR, being semi-popular in business/realty etc means nothing for gamers. Unless you sit doing virtual house tours all night long on your PS.
"And don't be mad that Microsoft isn't forward thinking like Sony. Being behind is Microsoft's MO."
Huh? Where did I mention Microsoft? Sounds like I hit a nerve.
Also I'm not really sure you can consider Sony as 'forward thinking' in the VR space. Everything they have done has already been done by Oculus & Valve, sometimes years in advance...
@ Orchard Regarding Quest 2 it is a massive success despite low media exposure (how many Quest 2 articles have you seen N4G/IGN/Gamespot, etc?) it has sold more than millions of units in a short time frame (at least more than a million before the end of 2020) https://gamingbolt.com/ocul... and was close to 2 to 3 million in late Feb according to Rec Room dev. https://www.androidcentral....
The real winning aspect of the Quest 2 is that it's wireless and easy to use but can be hooked to a Pc for the hardcore gamer (if you have the proper PC). For the price thrust me it's a no-brainer.
Again not so bad for a product that barely gets some shelf space in a shop.
"Huh? Where did I mention Microsoft? Sounds like I hit a nerve."
Seems ApocalypseShadow hit a nerve. What I'm wondering, since you asked where you mentioned MS, is where was this tired adoption rate argument mentioned when you were talking about Game Pass? Much more abysmal adoption rate than PSVR, right? PSVR costs hundreds of dollars and requires a PS4 or PS5 to play. GP can be had for $1 and is available to anyone with a PC. See how easy it is to turn off critical thinking to use the adoption rate argument to attack something you don't like?
@RauLeCloset Huh, What has VR got to do with Game Pass?
Anyway, I'll answer your off-topic question: Everyone knows MS has almost no market share on PC, Everyone is gaming on Steam, and now Epic to a lesser extent. The adoption rate on console is undeniably very good though, higher than PSVR if you want to compare apples to oranges, but especially when compared to similar subscription services both in and outside of the gaming space.
Quite clearly GamePass has taken a foothold in the market, where as VR has not really.
@ApocalypseShadow Lots of games last gen had horrible load times compared to PS5. Didn't stop people buying them. Again, not a reason that me or anyone around me has mentioned as a reason for why they don't own PSVR. In fact the most common reason I've heard is because it feels anti-social to sit with a headset on in your living room. By that logic, VR should be very popular on PC since they have high spec PC's and high spec headsets available, but alas, it is not.
Gamers may be surprised, but that doesn't mean the adoption rate is suddenly going to sky-rocket. VR is more popular on PC and even the adoption rate there isn't great.
PSVR did have a high price - what makes you think PSVR2 will not? As for Kinect (off-topic, bur whatever) costing the same as a video game... what video games were you buying? My 360 kinect set me back $150... and games were cheaper back then than they are today... but you make a good point - Microsoft discontinued the Kinect due to it being a failure - and it still sold 4x PSVR and in less time... but some how I'm meant to believe people are chomping at the bit to get a VR device...
Game preservation? Off-topic - what has VR got to do with game preservation? As for my own backyard, my own backyard is looking pretty rosy - I game on PS - just not PSVR :)
I agree people will pay attention when Sony announce anything (PSVR2 or otherwise), but to think a simple change of controller or updated specs suddenly means people will love the VR format / playing method is naive and very unrealistic. I hope we can revisit this conversation when PSVR2 has been out for a while and the overwhelming majority of gamers are still playing games in a non-VR mode. That will clearly be the outcome.
"You'll see. Then when it happens that journalists will be floored"
Journalists being floored does not mean VR will suddenly be popular and adopted by the masses. Journalists are a minority. Is this how we now measure if something is a success or not? What journalists think...?
It has to do with you selectively putting forward disingenuous, bad faith arguments depending on if it's a product you like or one you wish to downplay and attack. But you already knew that.
"Anyway, I'll answer your off-topic question: Everyone knows MS has almost no market share on PC, Everyone is gaming on Steam, and now Epic to a lesser extent. The adoption rate on console is undeniably very good though, higher than PSVR if you want to compare apples to oranges, but especially when compared to similar subscription services both in and outside of the gaming space.
"Quite clearly GamePass has taken a foothold in the market, where as VR has not really."
You didn't answer my question. You answered a question you made up to avoid having to answer my question. The question was "where was this tired adoption rate argument mentioned when you were talking about Game Pass?"
The question wasn't "can you change the subject by focusing on a minority of the market Game Pass is available in to hypocritically (and erroneously) claim the adoption rate is 'undeniably very good' after attacking an exponentially more expensive product that nonetheless has a better adoption rate than Game Pass?"
The PSVR market is PS4 (and now PS5) owners. Game Pass is available on Xbox (not going to list all the iterations), PC, and soon mobile.
PSVR costs as much as, or more than, a full fledged Switch console. Game Pass gets given away with boxes of cereal. https://www.kelloggsfamilyr...
PSVR's reported numbers are based on sales. Game Pass' reported numbers are based on users (to include the non-paying breakfast club above).
Facts and math, sport. PSVR, a literally exponentially more expensive product, has a literally exponentially better adoption rate than Game Pass.
@ApocalypseShadow Ignoring your immature comments about being a kid since I am not, nor do I resort to trying to insult during a discussion. I don't expect anything to go 'viral' overnight. But I do expect a device to sell more when its platform has 115m+ units out there. Kinect even outsold PSVR in numbers, with less Xbox 360's being in the wild than PS4's. And Kinect was a failure.
"You claim it's more popular on PC. But PSVR has outsold every PC headset. Even today. You still don't know what you're talking about. Another failure."
Except you're comparing 1 headset vs many... the number of users / market share is clearly bigger on PC, Steam stats show as much. But that's also expected... PC users are typically sitting at a desk, so the leap to put on a headset isnt that much extra in terms of isolation/being anti-social, where as most console gamers are sitting on their couch with their family/friends around or kids to watch etc - putting on a headset isn't viable for a lot of gamers.
"Like I mentioned in an above comment. Perfect example of a company that says they can't wait for Sony and PSVR 2 game development."
So one small developer is meant to suddenly turn the tides on VR? Seems unlikely. The fact remains that barely any big experiences are being developed for VR, and most big devs/IPs are choosing to forego it entirely. I don't see this changing with PSVR2. The market just isn't there - unless Sony is willing to pay for those modes to be developed.
"But again, I'm talking to someone with no experience. Who has no understanding that it will take time"
Bad news for you there bud, I've got a decade+ in the industry... so I clearly understand more about the industry than you. Heck, I've even worked on a VR game. I do admire your passion for VR, but it's clear to anyone that VR will remain niche and won't be the standard way the majority of gamers play games.
"You guys tried with PS5 and the controller and failed. Can't wait to see you fail again. It's what you guys are good at."
Who are you guys? and why are we now quoting Jim Ryan like he is Mark Cerny or someone of similar statute? PS under Ryan's direction is a step down from where it was under House, Layden, etc
@RuaLeCreuset You're totally off topic, but if you want to truly compare apples to apples... GamePass hit 15m in 3 years, PSNow took more than double that to hit 2m. I wouldn't say ~5m adoption when you have 115m+ consoles out there is an 'exponentially better adoption rate', or even a good adoption rate. Kinect had a higher attach rate than that, and was a flop.
As for your complaints around comparing a subscription service to high priced physical hardware... you are the one who chose to make such comparison - not me :)
"You're totally off topic, but if you want to truly compare apples to apples... GamePass hit 15m in 3 years, PSNow took more than double that to hit 2m."
You can try to deflect all you want. You may as well quit wasting your time waving your hand in a desperate effort to convince me these aren't the droids I'm looking for. Desperate deflection is desperate deflection. Bait not taken. Sorry.
What's being compared, or more accurately contrasted, are your disingenuous and hypocritical positions on adoption rate where it concerns a product you like versus a product you're trying to dog.
"I wouldn't say ~5m adoption when you have 115m+ consoles out there is an 'exponentially better adoption rate', or even a good adoption rate."
Let me remind you that I'm not going to change the subject or not talk about certain things just because they're bad for your argument. PC (and now mobile) is part of Game Pass' market. You aren't going to ignore that away. Thus, when you're having a conversation with me about Game Pass adoption rate, we are going to talk about the entire pie, not just a slice of it, not just on Xbox. Let's have Phil tell you their market:
“I think the people who want to pit us against Sony based on who sold the most consoles lose the context of what gaming is about today. There are 3 billion people who play games on the planet today, but maybe [only] 200 million households that have a video game console. In a way, the console space is becoming a smaller and smaller percentage of the overall gaming pie.”
So yes, PSVR LITERALLY has an exponentially higher adoption rate than Game Pass.
"As for your complaints around comparing a subscription service to high priced physical hardware... you are the one who chose to make such comparison - not me :)"
Complaints??? Maybe you should read that again. It doesn't upset me at all to point out to someone trying to use the "adoption rate" argument to crap on a product that they don't like that the adoption rate for that (literally) exponentially more expensive product they're trying to crap on is (literally) exponentially better than the adoption rate of the product they cape for.
"Kinect had a higher attach rate than that, and was a flop."
I intentionally saved this for last. True statement. Agreed. The Kinect is Exhibit A in the absurdity of judging a product's success by it's attach rate. Thanks for playing.
***It's good that Quest 2 has sold well but there's a few open questions there:***
1. They sold more than all combined previous VR units with just the latest release. If that's not a sign of growth, I don't know what is.
2. Mainstream is mainstream. Gaming on consoles is in mainstream and why games sell in the millions even with such larger competition and so many games aimed at being a person's only game source. So, I don't get the question on the type of gamer who bought them when it doesn't have to be the same as others much like how mobile gaming isn't necessarily the same as console or PC.
3. The question was on VR popularity, not platform presence. Even then PSVR is the primary indicator for success in other platforms until it's surpassed by another brand (Quest 3 looks to be the new leader). And it's also why Sony is coming out with PSVR 2. To refresh and update much like the others have been doing since PSVR was released. The problem with consoles is you can't release a ton of updates like others. But they can keep ahead enough to advance higher end gaming on VR.
I have heard this statement for the past 5 years. When are you guys going to give it a rest.
There are a few phrases those of us who play VR (any VR) hear that is mostly someone repeating others with no knowledge of where VR is or is going: those phrases are always a version of "it's not taking off" and "VR experiences."
There are hundreds of games that are fantastic. Depending on what you are looking for there are games that meet every want. But you seem to have already made up your mind based on what you read other people say on the internet. I doubt any logical argument will sway you.
EDIT: After reading the comments, I see you are just here to start arguments and not learn anything new.
I honestly think this new PSVR2 will also be compatible with PC. With it being inside out tracking and only needing a USB C connection. I can honestly see this being officially compatible with PC. Plus maybe they will release some of their own VR games on PC.
would be nice to have PC, maybe a steam partnership.
i would like to see PS now get a massive catalog of VR games, i think it would add value to PS now (and a clear USP over all the other sub services) and if you bundled 3 months sub with every headset, new players get an immediate access to x amount of titles straight away.
steam partnership is tough - would have to find a way to monetize only when a particular headset is used?
PSNow w/ VR titles is a great idea though. Lots of older titles that I'm sure the new headset will still be compatible with and will be fun for new comers to play
Hell yeah it is! Just give me a date and tell me how to preorder the thing - I can't wait to get my hands in those controllers!
Besides Jim being supportive of the VR industry and console VR, I think gamers are going to be quite surprised when the names of the next PlayStation headset's games get announced.
We already have an idea on how they are going to look. But I think big name franchises like GTA, COD, GT, RE, Spider-Man, Battlefield, etc will be announced that can't and won't be ignored by the community.
Should be amazing along with those new controllers.
I honestly think this new PSVR2 will also be compatible with PC. With it being inside out tracking and only needing a USB C connection. I can honestly see this being officially compatible with PC. Plus maybe they will release some of their own VR games on PC.