A PlayStation 4 owner has demonstrated how the failure or removal of the system’s internal CMOS battery can result in users being unable to play games offline without reconnecting to PSN, even after the battery has been replaced.
I mean all you have to do if the battery dies is replace it is pretty simple
Not so simple. In the future when Sony eventually shuts down PS4 servers, even replacing the CMOS won't fix it. It has to do with game trophies syncing to PSN servers and the internal clock related to the CMOS.
Not the point. Still requires a handshake with a server to sync your system clock to your trophy data. What needs to happen is a conditional needs to be in place to check if communication to the server is accessable, and if not then bypass the trophy data check to proceed to launching your games/software. The fact that this isn't even a thing baffles my mind. It's really poor design/oversight and paints a narrative of how Sony plans to handle legacy titles 10-15years down the road. Why even bother buying third party games on PlayStation if you can't even play them in the future regardless if you buy digital or physical?
Sony is not going to shut down PSN as long as they remain in business. All current and future consoles will use PSN. And all the CMOS needs to do is confirm the time... The chances of PSN going away is slim none
Hard disagree. I do not believe in a future where PSN will perpetually support all legacy platforms like you claim. All services get retired eventually as legacy support just becomes way too costly to maintain. It simply cannot there's just not enough money, time, or infrastructure to support such a feat. I guarantee you 40 years from now you will not be able to play your PS4 games digital, physical, third party or otherwise. But I bet you if I can go find myself a working snes and some carts they would work just fine in 40 years time.
There is nothing to support. The old consoles will be able to connect to it, that is it. Nothing special has to be done for this to happen. It already happens. No extra work is required. People really are trying to fear monger while not having a clue.
Again hard disagree. The issue is not with the hardware console itself but the services and the servers needed. They eat up an immense amount of money and time and require constant maintenance. When you say there's no extra work needed that is factually false. There is no inbetween or gray area. But again this isn't a hard issue to fix. All there needs to be is a firmware update to bypass the trophy data sync and it'll work just fine. But whether or not Sony finds fixing this issue as a priority is a different story, and which I wouldn't blame them because this hypothetical issue wouldn't actually be a thing for many many years to come.
All consoles and PSNow will all continue to use the same service which is PSN. It will never shut down so there is nothing to worry about.
"it will never shutdown"... Ok if you say so. At least you've been civil with the conversation, so I appreciate it 🤝
Haha no problem and me too. Then only way I see it going down is if Playstation goes out of business 🤝
“ There is nothing to support. The old consoles will be able to connect to it, that is it. Nothing special has to be done for this to happen. It already happens. No extra work is required. People really are trying to fear monger while not having a clue” Clearly it is you who has no clue - anyone who’s built and kind of software or service knows there is maintenance involved and that the methods that service uses will not be the industry standard in 5, 10, 15 years. Quick examples... encryption algorithms change all the time... TLS versions... HTTP versions... to name but a few. There is a clear cost associated with supporting old and new devices trying to hit the same service - you either update your old device to be able to talk to the new services, or you make the service support both new and old devices - both of these have a dev cost.
Bruh, getting to CMOS requires nearly complete disassembly of the PS4, including having to replace the thermal compound and possibly thermal pads(if needed).
I guess you didn't read the part of the article that mentioned that replacing the issue doesn't fix the problem if you can't connect to PSN.
They would need to patch it to correct that. One would hope that in the future, when they close the store, they would do a patch that removes the handshake/authorization/etc back to the servers.
its actually not that simple lol not everyone has a hand for that sorta stuff.
Lol. "They'll never shut down the PSN." Tell that to the imminent closure of PS3, PS Vita, and PSP storefronts, basically erasing thousands of games from history as well as making it impossible for people interested in the platforms to be able to pick up any games on the service in physical form for cheap.
Like every battery has a shelf life, so it is in PS4. All CMOS batteries are replacable easily. Why ouch!?
The CMOS battery in the PS3 and PS4 require a near full disassembly of the system. You have to know what you are doing or you will ruin your console.
@addicted Luckily, PS3/PS4 aren't so hard to disassemble.
Could they change this with a future patch? Maybe not requiring trophies to sync with the servers in the future? Is this an issue with PS5 too?
Wonder what kind of battery it takes, and how replaceable it is 🤔
When PSN for PS4 shuts down, replacing it will not fix the issue. You still need to connect to PSN at least once. The battery is one problem, but it is the online requirement that is even more worrisome.
PSN dor PS4 is not going to shut down. All future Sony consoles and PSNow will continue to use PSN
PS3 and VITA were part of the same PSN as the PS4, this has been known for some time. Yet Sony saw fit to remove the stores. Electronic devices lose support eventually in favor of new ones. If you think Sony will keep PSN support on the PS4 indefinitely, you are lying to yourself. Jim Ryan himself made it very clear he does not give two shits about older games and hardware.
The PSN Store and the PSN aren't the same thing. You can still play online games on ps3 and psvita.
The store is a separate front end web app you use to purchase content. It is not PSN nor does a console need a store to connect to PSN
@travestyj That literally makes no sense. So you’re telling me that in 10 years time either: 1. Sony are still going to be using the exact same services stack / software as they use today. Obviously this isn’t true since technology like services and software move very fast. Or 2. They’re going to go back and update PS3, 4, 5 etc for all future versions of PSN. They won’t even support back compat - why would they do this? You cannot guarantee that PSN will stay turned on for PS3, 4, vita or anything else.
They will update the servers but PSN will remain the same. There was no special update required when PS4 came out or when the PS5 came out. It is all one network under one username. I can guarantee that.
So your logic @travestyj, it raises the question - why can’t they do the same with the stores? Why are stores being shut down? It’s just a web service like every other part of PSN. And how can you guarantee it for me? Do you work high up at Sony? Heck, even Microsoft has shut down parts of Xbox Live before - and let’s be honest, MS handles services all-up and general support for older platforms a lot better than Sony.
This is why we shouldn't be so quick to dive into an "always online" future. If the servers get shut down, you lose everything
You can buy the battery off any super market shelf, it's the same one a PC motherboard takes if you have a look at it.
@isarai Most common battery would be a CR 2032 I swapped the battery out of my PS3 with a CR 2032 and it works. CR 2032's are common in game cartridges that feature a battery save like Super Mario World or Super Mario RPG even the Sega Saturn uses a CR 2032.Gamecube and Dreamcast along with the PS2 also use a CR 2032 but for those two consoles they are soldered to the mother board. Older pc's used a lithium ion battery and when they popped they pretty much f*cked up the mother board.
Probably a 2025 or 2032, those are the common types used on most motherboards.
It shouldn't be a worry should it? I mean how long do these go out? I still have my OG Ps4 running just fine. Controller just gave out last month though.
Those batteries tend to last anywhere between 15 to 20 years. It's just that someday they will die and in about 20 years time do you believe PS4 will still be supported on PSN? If not then that console essentially turns into a paper weight.
"20 years time". Lol. I have the launch console and its running fine till now. Im only holding onto it till i get my PS5 and im selling it off for cheap. Lets say 7 years now. I don't know about you but I've never heard of consoles dying because of a battery.
My battery in the dreamcast still runs and it is older than 20years...
We will have blown up the planet by then, wont be an issue for most people
This is pretty much applies for all digital content with DRM it will all need to phone home and store the checks.
+1 for Emulation Software
Computers die after being used for a long time and eventually burn out as well if theyre pushed too hard. Ive had at least 3 motherboards completely go out on me because of how many years I owned them. Ive lost tons of important files lost like this. Are PCs indestructible now? Edit: you can buy a pc at any time and you can buy a console at any time. You can easily switch out HDDs on both consoles and PCs so I dont really see your logic unless im missing something. Also, emulation is nowhere near being as good as natively playing games. Parappa the Rapper, bust a groove, and a lot of my favourite rhythm games are almost unplayable with the input lag on my emulator. At least I can play some great rpg's though.
You can buy a new PC at any time - and your emulated games will still work if they work today. Buying a new PS3/4 will just get more and more difficult over time, and there’s a risk that the digital purchases or patches etc become inaccessible (as is happening to PS3 right now...)
thats funny 3 motherboards are you sure ? i have been in to computers for over 40 years and have not had 3 motherboards pack up on me if what you are saying is true you most be over clocking them to much or buying very cheap ones or both
If and when that happens No one will care.
My youngest nephew has a PS4 that has been disconnected from the internet and not updated for about three years. He hasn't had these issues. So, is a solution to keep the console offline?
If his battery dies you will be required to replace it and go online for a PSN sync or his discs will no longer work. He will probably be onto a different console by the time this happens unless he got the system used.
Interesting that replacing the battery would require that. Makes no sense.
these batteries last at least 15 years. Hardly a big deal considering no significant amount of people will be playing PS4 when PS7 is out
The issue is that the the trophy system requires accurate timestamps for the unlock timings of trophies. A resynchronisation with the server is only necessary if the Real-time clock has been desynced by a dead or disconnected battery. For now there doesn't seem to be a way to bypass the trophy integration and simply play the games without trophies.
Meanwhile on the ps5 store...
so about that ps5 digital edition.
Emulation wins again.
CMOS battery is only used to maintain the configuration of the CMOS. On PC you can replace the CMOS Battery while keep your PC powered (even not switched on) thus no need to reconfigure your CMOS setting. Have somebody try make the battery replacement while keeping the power plugged in? This should be an option for the battery replacement.
Don't have this problem with Snes, Megadrive. Still going strong. And if cartridge battery dies easy enough to replace. Modern tech hey.
I believe it also stops playing games if you remove the graphics card too. 2 key quotes from the story: "if Sony chose to close the PlayStation Network in the future, it would theoretically lead to over 115 million PS4 consoles eventually being unable to play games." - from the story itself, like that will actually ever happen. "you can fix this by just putting a new battery in then syncing your console to the PSN once." - from Mr McDonald himself, so lets not all panic and think the sky is falling in. Mr McDonald also suggests that a firmware patch could be implemented to circumvent this issue, I'm pretty sure that this would be pushed out if it suddenly became a huge issue, which by the way it is not.
Not only that but when or if PlayStation patches out CBOMB it sounds like might also patch out Trophy support for PS3/PS4 which will upset people for other reasons even though on PS3 Trophies were and afterthought and no one should care because they can still earn new PS4 trophies on any PS5.
So replace the battery if you need to. Those things have a shelf life of about 10-15+ years. At worst you would have to reinitialise the console to enter the date and time but you’d keep your account so all your games are still linked. You just might have to reinstall.
Is it the same for ps5?
Just asking. Could the solution be as simple as Sony uploading a new firmware for the ps4 that we install via usb when that times comes?
With this issue being brought more and more into the light as of late, is it possible that SONY would firmware fix this out of the console? I'm not too tech savvy on firmware full capabilities, but can they create an update that would potentially fix this future worry?
Basically no. It’s a CMOS battery, it’s the last line of internal memory no amount of firmware updates could stop it from losing its memory once it dies. It doesn’t stop it being a fairly none issue though as all you have to do is replace the battery and then correct the time. As long as the time is updated it will continue to work again completely as normal. That’s just the way they all work. You have to input the date and time to reestablish licenses.
It wouldn’t be so much of an issue if all you had to do was replace the battery. It’s the PSN requirement that’s a big Fing deal. Obviously the console will require repairs now and again to keep working in the long term, but once repaired it should continue working. If 15 years from now I have a working PS4 I should be able to play all my games offline with no issue, but that won’t be the case if for some reason this battery failed and I can’t connect to PSN. It’s completely unnecessary to have this requirement, and it boggles my mind that there’s a possible scenario where millions of consoles will end up bricked over a cheap ass battery, because Sony was concerned about Trophies.
People really need reading comprehension skills...
By the time anyone's battery dies on a ps4 you will have a ps5 that will play all the same games but better. Also if your battery dies... pretty simple replace it, reconnect to psn. Sony is not going to be closing the psn store anytime soon, Sony also has zero plans to null your ps4 library, instead they aim to embrace it and use it as a selling point for future consoles. I honestly believe that the old vita/psp/ps3 store is being closed down because Sony plans to keep the ps4 library going forward.
It is entirely plausible that even if the store is closed down in the future, one could still connect to PSN to sync their trophies. The circumstances that this would come into play would be almost nil unless Sony intentionally planned it that way. I don't believe they would do that, there is a big difference between closing a store and completely killing off an old console from even being able to handshake to PSN, I'm not worried, imo.
Has anyone ever replaced one of these? I have and it is not that hard. A quick log in afterwards to PSN AND TA DA it's fixed. Before anyone has doom and gloom about PSN...why would sony shut down one of if not it's biggest money maker?
I'm pretty sure that Sony will address this problem in the future or near the end cycle of the console. The good news is that some ppl found out and warn Sony about the issue. There's a good chance that even them weren't really aware of it. We can blame Sony for closing down the Vita /PS3 store but I doubt that they had planned to have the console become useless in the future.
You do know that all that is needed is a simple log in right? You can still log into psn on both vita and ps3 and ps4 and ps5. The stores are closed for ps3 and vita that's it. Stop spreading doom and gloom.
And what happen when Sony close the PSN store on PS4? The point isn’t about now just like the article mentioned it’s about what happen when Sony will at one point in the future close the server via PS4. And I fail to see how I’m spreading Doom and Gloom when I am basically saying that for the moment everything is fine and Sony will probably address the cmos issue before they close the server in Several years.