This comes after Ori director, Thomas Mahler, slams Fable And Cyberpunk 2077 creators, in a lengthy thread on ResetEra titled: "Why are gamers so eager to trust and even forgive the snake oil salesmen?"
Yup, I screwed up yesterday. Here's my thoughts: pic.twitter.com/4gH0KGxURA— thomasmahler (@thomasmahler) February 4, 2021
Yup, I screwed up yesterday. Here's my thoughts: pic.twitter.com/4gH0KGxURA
People that knew Mahler called him out. He’s just as bad if not worse than the people he was calling out.
When Phil Spencer knew Crackdown 3 wouldn't be the triple-A game that he had promised, he put the Ori games in the E3 spotlight again and again. It seems Thomas Mahler believed the hype and thought himself a creative god, but in reality, like someone said the other day, he created a side-scroller with LED lights. You should be allowed to criticise others if done in a professional way, he got personal with his 'snake oil' claims. The irony is some people love No Man's Sky, and the game that he made is a pretty but superficial trinket that failed to deliver on the promise. Thomas Mahler is the snake oil salesman. Additionally, it's easy to attack Peter Molyneux for overpromising on features and underdelivering with his Kickstarter, which is absolutely true. However, if you're going to criticise you should also know your videogame history. Molyneux created the god game genre and several brilliant games many which changed gaming for the better. The Fable games, No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 are all way more complex games than his 2D platformer.
It seems like there are still some sour grapes towards Sean Murray for something that happened SIX years ago. In his ResetEra post Thomas Mahler says "I remember some journalist from some big publication telling us that Ori almost got the cover article of some magazine I read frequently, but ultimately they had to pick No Man's Sky cause it was the 'bigger game'."
"The irony is some people love No Man's Sky, and the game that he made is a pretty but superficial trinket that failed to deliver on the promise. Thomas Mahler is the snake oil salesman." What promise? Ori was promoted as a side scroller metroidvania and thats exactly what it was. You claim that Mahler made personal insults and here you are doing the same thing with your fanboy hyperbole. The creators of No Mans Sky and Cyberpunk both made vague promises before their games released that turned out to be straight up lies. Maybe his post was too incendiary but he was not wrong.
Crackdown 3 isn't some special unique game but it was really fun. 8/10
In hindsight, what Murray achieved with No Man's Sky, with such a tiny team and after having their premises flooded, was an amazing feat. And let's not forget the scope and ambition behind the game. I understand the upset at launch, but my God have they made up for it since - that game just keeps on giving. Just last week they added a PS5 patch which makes the game beautiful in VR. It lifts the experience to a whole new level.
I would have respected him more if he stood his ground and didn't apologize like a B&*@# the day after... Like, why even say what's on your mind to begin with if you can't even stand by it??
about the no man sky thing, i personally think Sony is to blame for that. Hello Games was a super small studio before they got picked up by Sony, they were basically creating their dream game. Im not sure what exactly they promised before sony picked them up for exclusivity, but I feel like they just got thrown in the deep by Sony putting them at E3 as one of their major games and started making too much promises etc. When they werent prepared to stand in the spotlight like this. Im glad they recovered from their bad launch though
Here is his comment, I see no issues at all: https://www.resetera.com/th... Also, how is he just as bad? He literally never misrepresented his games and his reveals have always contained direct gameplay. If you don't like them fine, but they are literally considered among the top of the genre. Apparently you now have to have made a game as big as the one you criticize in order to be valid, guess we won't be seeing any more criticism from you and the others like you around here right? Here is his interview, where he gives exact descriptions of their goals and inspirations and each thing he says it will have, it has. multiple times he says "here is our goal, we hope we meet that goal" and the goals are realistic and realized in the end product. The whole spin on this guy is honestly sad. https://youtu.be/_KwDOMNqKx... Clearly either fanboys of the game he criticized or paid BS artist here.
As a developer in the industry, he has to hold himself to a slightly higher standard, and you can't be making enemies in a business that's almost entirely based on community and connections. His image is also the image of Moon Studios, so if people see his image as negative them when it comes time for moon studios to release a game and said, a journalist who felt attacked start attacking his game, then it affects all the other people who don't share his thoughts, or simply didn't engage in this. So when you represent a company and a group of people are depending on your, you have to have tact and us the appropriate forum to deliver your message. He did not do that here. But let me tell you, I agree with EVERYTHING he said.
@Abizzel "As a developer in the industry, he has to hold himself to a slightly higher standard" Completely disagree, he can have opinions and thoughts just like everyone else. IDK where the idea comes from that because he develops games he now has a different standard to live by, but that is crazy. He is just a guy.... like anyone else. "His image is also the image of Moon Studios, so if people see his image as negative them when it comes time for moon studios to release a game and said, a journalist who felt attacked start attacking his game, then it affects all the other people who don't share his thoughts" Right which is the issue with games journalism and journalism generally to a large extent. It is not unbiased reporting but people weilding their influence to push an agenda. So for that reason this guy should have to watch his mouth or else, right? Gatcha. Sounds like mafia tactics to me. Keep your mouth shut an noone gets hurt. I guess I just hope if you ever say something completely fair and true that gains negative media attention and it affects your livelihood, that you would keep that same standard for yourself, that the journalist opinions take precedent over your right to even voice an opinion. Because it is your fault of course if that happens, right? You act like he is some world renowned leader of some giant enterprise or in some position of massive power, he partially owns a small dev studio, I mean geez.
-"He’s just as bad if not worse than the people he was calling out." Okay, *normally* to avoid making these statements look like vacuous "no u" responses you need to provide some evidence for your claims. Do you have anything about Mahler's previous acts/reputation that reflects the infamous "Molyneux Cycle" of game hyping or the flagrantly deceitful PR CD Projekt Red said about Cyberpunk on 8th-gen consoles? If not, then your claim does not hold up.
God I hate this PC world we live in now days. I come from the AL Bundy Era. Men have to walk around afraid to voice their opinion because of cancel culture. Can't even tell a woman she looks nice at work without catching a case. My God if the man feels some type of way about other devs games then let him speak his mind without consequences.
His first mistake was posting on that shithole called resetera. Cancel culture lives and breathes there.
Yeah no this is a capitalism issue. Cancel culture doesn’t exist unless it’s capitalis cancel culture. Mahler’s executive bosses are the only reason he apologised, not any normal regular person off the street.
It's 2021 not 1960's when men acted like sexist maniacs and I'm glad is starting to be put to rest. Us guys should be more respectful to woman and treat them with respect, dignity and as equals I'm sorry you don't see woman as people who should be respected and treated as equals but that is your fault.
@Battlestar23 If women wanted a nice guy she would be picking them first not last. If women want tradition then be a traditional wife who want kids and a family. If women want careers and titles then accept the accountability that comes with it. Everything in this world has trade offs. If women wanted men that are equals then why do they set their standards so high. If women want nice guys why do they pick them last after bad boys. I can on and on. Contradictions. They only want accountability, tradition and liberation when it suits them. Either go in 100% or not at all.
if a guy tells a woman "you look nice" hes a sexist maniac? Women wont get any extra respect just for being a woman. The amount of respect she gives me ill give her the same and that's real equality.
There is a HUGE difference between acting like a "sexist maniac" and "telling a woman she looks nice at work". The problem is that the faux-puritanical outrage mob on Twitter can't, or most likely won't, make that distinction.
Define the meaning of woman...
Lmao, it's the other way around now. I'm the only guy in my workplace and during a first aid training session pretending to be a victim lying on the floor, one of the women pinched my ass which everyone found hilarious. Naturally I went to HR and got her immediately sacked; me too movement and all that.
Did you read what he wrote, either in the first place or in his response? He spoke his opinion on a public forum and then others used that same public space to share their opinion. It's how the world works. It's how we grow, assuming we actually consider other people's perspectives & try to see if it at all changes our own. He felt how he did about games, he spoke that aloud, and the only consequence he had was that people disagreed with him. He didn't lose his job or anything, so I'm not entirely sure what consequences you think he is dealing with. If disagreement is a consequence, sorry to say, that's a consequence you sign up for when talking about anything in a public space. Are people supposed to write their thoughts in public forums with the sole expectation that they only get positive feedback in return? I'm not sure how "disagreement" is part of "cancel culture", nor how disagreement is apparently "consequences". It got further amplification because he was a prominent figure of a company in the space he was complaining about. Companies are made of people, so if you are a prominent figure then you have to be cognizant of what you say, how you say it, and where you say it. This is not a new concept. And he's not sorry for what he said, he's just sorry for the tone he used & where he chose to share it. He still holds his opinion, he still holds his job. He simply realized after reading responses that he could have better handled how he presented his opinion & wanted to let people know that at least on that point, their opinions were heard, that there were things he agreed with & the noted what he'd be more cognizant of moving forward. All in all, it isn't all that big a deal.
You just know the apology wasn't of his own volition.
I get what you are saying, but resurrecting an era is never a good idea.
He was absolutely right. Nice that he didn't back away from his statement core.
Apologizing for it is backing away from it.
He clearly just apologised for the way he sent the message, not the message itself.
Too late. It was spewed already.
Good. When I saw the headline of him ranting about it I thought it was stupid. Cyberpunk has/had issues but they aren't as bad as the internet makes them out to be, as always. I even talk about the nonsense of bandwagons and blowing things out of proportion in a new podcast: https://youtu.be/0Cd-3c-Yno...
My game crashed 4 times during the last mission and even crashed again during the credits.
Mine crashed for the very first time today, post-hot fixes lol
After my game got stuck in the options screen, then crashed 3 times in the first two hours, I uninstalled it. Maybe it'll be fixed in a year or so. Yeah, it's as bad as the internet makes it out to be.
The game is shit. And totally deserves the hate that it’s getting. Horrible example. They released a horrible game and made billions of dollars, blame other people than themselves, put the refunds on other companies. You seem like a fanboy. Nothing wrong with being a fanboy, but for such a crappy game with terrible lies and horrible practices attached to it. Hahah. Oh look you have a little pod cast too. Hahaha lol.
Playing through it now and have had issues all around. Traffic stops moving, left a club carrying the requested body and mission bugged out (even seen a T pose which is a first for me ever) and some filters don't disappear like they're supposed to (some background tracks keep playing, the chip malfunction keeps distortioning the game, etc). Still, I'm on your side when defending the game, having a blast with the stories and visuals it provides
Cyberpunk im glad is being Sued for false advertising CDPD what a scam industry
Its CDPR and they are a developer not an industry, unless you meant the whole gaming industry is a scam and if you feel that way I would suggest another hobby maybe.
Why apologize? I say stand your ground. It's is your opinion and no one can take that away from you.
His rich bosses told him off
Social Media makes it all too easy for everyone to act like an idiot and say whatever we want and then retract it just like that, but the damage is already done and the world already knows the kind of person you are.
If you're right, don't apologize.
People don't like the truth.
Like someone already said, Ori games are just pretty side-scrollers with nothing new to it but the visuals. They don't have a third of CP2077, Fable or No Man's Sky's complexity. That said, I don't condemn this guy (who I don't know) about his opinions. I condemn whoever got salty about it. Just tell him he's wrong and be done with it
Maybe the snakeoil salesmen he makes games for told him to shut up and apologize
Criticizing games that are leagues more ambitious then what he’s done like it the same thing
That didn't take long.
As soon as Keanu stood on that stage you guys should've run far far away from CP2077
I agree 100% with what he said in his rant but as a developer you can't say that kinda stuff out loud. As a gamer saying that kinda thing on a comment board or on Twitter won't mean much but a industry insider such as a developer you will get some blow back even when speaking truth. With that said he's right and IMO gaming has way to much of everything he complains about. Game developers over promising and can't deliver and there's no accountability for anyone. A game Dev over hypes a game and then they don't deliver no problem they'll have it fixed in 3 or 4 years and then they'll get away with the same BS on their next release. Far to many games get released that fail to meet expectations set by the game Devs and Publishers and then for those really special games that fail to meet expectations and are a buggy, broken mess that are unplayable and on top of that are short on content well.........that's become the industry standard.
If we weren’t so forgiving the gaming industry wouldn’t exist. Everybody has wronged us at some point, even CDPR lol. Making games is hard and most of us understand that. He’s right that too many of us blindly trust branding to a fault, but our forgiveness and our ability to let a company redeem itself is the only reason the gaming industry is what it is today.
At the end of the day all devs and marketers are people...and people make mistakes and can also be downright deceitful. Normally I've come to find that when you judge someone for any action it usually turns out that you do the same darn thing in your own way and just haven't realized it. Speaking for myself as well. Best to give everyone second and third and fourth chances. Not good to put yourself on a high horse...it'll hurt more when you fall.
Why apologize? You can't speak your mind anymore without someone being butthurt. Stupid times.
Meh let the man speak his mind. Stop canceling peoples voice because you disagree with it or it hurts your feelings. The games, devs and the problems that made them are trash in one way or another, he was right to call them on their bullshit.
Why would he? Those games blow.
Apologizing for possibly offending someone no doubt. If it was his honest opinion, why should he need to justify what he said and apologize if he offended anyone. If it offends you, you need to take a hard look in the mirror, i was raised in an era where nothing anyone did or said offended you, that is how we were raised. These days if you disagree with something, you cry offended just to get said material cancelled/removed, it is going to be the detriment of today's society.
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